James Randi and a Dowser

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UncleFeedle

UncleFeedle

17 жыл бұрын

A dowser gives a demonstration of his professed powers and fails.
Dowsing (also known as 'divining' and 'water-witching') is the claimed ability to locate water, oil, minerals, objects, locations, missing persons etc. using such objects as a metal rod, a pair of bent wires, a forked stick, a pendulum or the open hands.
In controlled tests, dowsing fails every time. Dowsing is actually nothing more than an example of the 'ideomotor effect' - a known psychological phenomenon in which the dowser moves/tips the dowsing apparatus entirely unconsciously, giving the powerful illusion that the device moves of its own accord.
This is also the explanation behind the ouija board and automatic writing.
The effect is clearly visible in this video. At 1.48 you can actually see his hand shaking the rod from side to side. Since this is happening unconsciously, he isn't aware he is doing it and so firmly believes that the rod is moving on its own.
From episode 4 of 'James Randi - Psychic Investigator' (1991)

Пікірлер: 1 200
@KatKevaKelise
@KatKevaKelise 10 жыл бұрын
I love Randi's diplomacy, it always pleases me to see that even though he utterly disbelieves the people he tests, and knows that they will fail every time, he NEVER loses his polite demeanour, he is NEVER disrespectful, rude, or unnecessarily cruel, and he NEVER gloats about his proven correctness, or says, "I TOLD you so!" There is something special about a person who has this attitude, and feel that he deserves nothing but complete respect.
@matthewstillwell3090
@matthewstillwell3090 6 жыл бұрын
Paul I'd love to see that 😂. What's the video??
@matthewstillwell3090
@matthewstillwell3090 6 жыл бұрын
Paul cheers, I'll give that a read, I mean I have to be honest I tend to be on Randi's side, but I'd like to read his side of the story.
@justanotherhappyhumanist8832
@justanotherhappyhumanist8832 6 жыл бұрын
Paul, homeopathy pills are just sugar pills. Homeopathy was devised by a German doctor in the late eighteenth century, before evidence-based medicine existed, at a time when blood-letting, purging, and other ineffective and dangerous treatments were routinely prescribed (treatments often conjured out of thin air by arbitrary authority figures with no qualifications…you know, the kind that all conspiracy theorists admire). Samuel Hahnemann, the creator of homeopathy, was just such a figure. He believed (based on no evidence - again, just conjuring the idea out of thin air) that the more a substance is diluted in water, the more powerful it becomes at treating the symptoms it would otherwise induce. He eventually decided that simple dilutions were not enough, so he created a specific process. This process, which homeopaths call ‘succussion’, consists of diluting a substance in water, and with each dilution, the glass vessel containing the remedy is shaken by ten firm strikes against ‘a hard but elastic object’. For this purpose, Hahnemann (note, there is no Dr. before his name) had a saddle maker construct a bespoke wooden striking board, covered in leather and stuffed with horsehair. These ten strikes are still carried out in homeopathy pill factories today, although they are carried out by robots. Most rational people, knowing that this is what homeopathy consists of, will already realise that it’s nonsense. Homeopaths have a specific way of figuring out which remedies work for which ailments as well. A group of volunteers (anywhere from one to a couple dozen, not significant, scientifically speaking) come together and take six doses of a particular remedy, at a range of dilutions, over the course of two days, all while keeping a diary of the mental, physical, and emotional sensations felt…including dreams. At the end, the diaries are gathered together, and a ‘master prover’ collates the information from the diaries, creating a long list of symptoms and dreams from the small number of people. These symptoms and dreams then become the ‘symptom picture’ for that remedy. They are written in a big book, and revered forever by all homeopaths. Obviously, the problem with this (since you can’t see it already), is that you can’t be sure if the symptoms are caused by some other substance the people are taking, or if they’re the result of something entirely unrelated. Again, this is why we need double-blind, placebo based studies if we are to determine accurate cause and effect…but homeopaths just ignore logical scientific, evidence-based medicine and trials. Despite, this, they go out of their way to make their fake medicine sound as sciencey as possible. Hahnemann even professed (actually, he recommended) complete ignorance of the physiological processes going on inside the body. He thought that homeopathy should be the opposite of modern alternative therapist's claims that ‘medicine only treats the symptoms, we treat the underlying cause’. He thought that homeopathy should be used to treat only the symptoms. The fact of the matter is that homeopaths rely solely on exotic theories while ignoring the huge amount of negative empirical evidence on the efficacy of homeopathy. Homeopathic remedies are diluted. The typical homeopathic remedy is diluted at 30C, which means the original substance has been diluted by one drop in a hundred, thirty times over. Homeopaths like to say that this means 30C is less than one part per million of the original substance, but that’s a major understatement. A 30C preparation is a dilution of 100 to the power of 30, or 10 to the power of 60, or ONE FOLLOWED BY SIXTY ZEROES, or one part per million million million million million million million million million million, or 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. THAT’S HOW MUCH THE AVERAGE SINGLE HOMEOPATHY DOSE IS DILUTED. To put that in perspective, there are only around 100, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water in an Olympic-sized swimming pool. To put it in the words of Dr. Ben Goldacre, ‘Imagine a sphere of water with a diameter of 150 million kilometres (the distance from the earth to the sun). It takes light eight minutes to travel that distance. Picture a sphere of water that size, with one molecule of a substance in it: that’s a 30C dilution. At a homeopathic dilution of 200C (you can buy much higher dilutions from any homeopathic supplier) the treating substance is diluted more than the total number of atoms in the universe, and by an enormously huge margin. To look at it another way, the universe contains about 3x10^80 cubic metres of storage space…if it was filled with water, and one molecule of active ingredient, this would make for a rather paltry 55C dilution.’ With all due respect, homeopathy is complete nonsense. If you feel that it has helped you, you are simply susceptible to the placebo effect.
@ryant1064
@ryant1064 5 жыл бұрын
Paul sorry bro, it’s not called closed minded. It’s called being skeptical..... homeopathy is horse crap. Period.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 10 жыл бұрын
They don't expect to fail. Dowsers are utterly convinced that dowsing is real and most believe themselves to be 90-100% accurate. Even when it is shown to be false, they are initially bewildered, then blame the failure on various rationalizations and continue believing utterly.
@SquirrelSniper138
@SquirrelSniper138 2 жыл бұрын
Spoken like a true Indoctrinated Globehead
@RockResume335
@RockResume335 Жыл бұрын
I’ve sent the same. I know a guy who has, “seen it work three times!” When I point out that it failed us 3 times (we were trying to find water on our property ) it just goes over his head.
@McMeatBag
@McMeatBag 7 жыл бұрын
"a very dramatic demonstration" LOL
@Wyrmwould
@Wyrmwould 9 ай бұрын
I love how Randi refers to it as the "third guess." That's all it is, the guy was just guessing and the odds got better as boxes were eliminated. Anyone could have done just as well by spinning in a circle and pointing.
@machttan
@machttan 10 жыл бұрын
It's obvious he just likes waving his wand around.
@matveyostanin2846
@matveyostanin2846 9 жыл бұрын
no recently it was found that human have too a very weak sense of magnetoreception
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
Houdini was a skilled magician who became famous for his escapology feats. At one time he believed the claims of psychics. When he encountered a psychic falsely claiming to be in contact with his mother, and saw others using known magic principles, he set to work exposing them. Sounds good to me.
@aisrael1
@aisrael1 15 жыл бұрын
What I love about Mr. Randi is that he is very formal and respectful. He definately never loses his class and manners. Great way to be succesful in his professional career.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 9 жыл бұрын
How to behave as a woo-woo believer on KZfaq: 1. Make an outrageous claim 2. Give anecdotal accounts as 'proof' 3. Ignore all requests for supporting evidence 4. State logical fallacies (appeals to authority, appeals to popularity, etc) 5. Refer to the works of pseudoscientists 6. Make rationalizations to avoid any scientific testing 7. Descend into juvenile, condescending behaviour During the eight years these videos have been up, I've had people claiming the existence of telepathy, gods, demigods, demons, fairies, auras, channeling, 'auric sight', 'magick', 'spirit ecosystems', dowsing for dogs, fifteen different definitions of astrology, interdimensional shapeshifting aliens, 'transcendental surgery' (where spirits perform the operation), magic talismans, disembodied minds, 'omnipresent thought particles', nature spirits, curing cancer by thought and ghosts appearing in JPG's of gravestones when you stare at them. Plus a conspiracy among scientists to prevent the public from finding all this out. And this is barely scratching the surface. The gamut of human gullibility and fallibility staggers me. Other skeptics sometimes ask me why I bother engaging with these people to the extent that I do, when it is clearly pointless. I do it because the internet is rife with claims such as these, and such claims need to be challenged. I am happy for others to follow these discussions and draw their own conclusions.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 16 жыл бұрын
In 1980, Randi organised a test of the best dowsers in Australia. The test was mostly based on finding water. Most of the dowsers claimed to be 80-100% accurate and all agreed in writing to the terms of the test. The test results were around 11%, which is well within what you would get by chance alone. The test is viewable on Google Video ('James Randi in Australia').
@Andybaby
@Andybaby 7 ай бұрын
Wow - I've been looking for that video for AGES -THANK YOU!!! [edit: 15 years later!]
@ExploreGamesAndMore
@ExploreGamesAndMore 9 жыл бұрын
4:34 His face when he's told he has to keep going.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
During my obsessed-with-the-paranormal phase, I tried various forms of dowsing, and they did indeed appear to work. However, once I started testing it properly, I got exactly what one would expect from random chance alone. It is now obvious to me that it didn't actually work at all. My initial experiments were hugely flawed and I had merely mistaken myself into believing that dowsing was real. And I don't buy it that the act of testing caused it to fail.
@showproja
@showproja 10 жыл бұрын
Like all charlatans, he fell apart under scrutiny.
@matveyostanin2846
@matveyostanin2846 9 жыл бұрын
idiot they are not charlatans it was recently proved that human magnetoreception exist
@josephk1342
@josephk1342 8 жыл бұрын
+Matvey Ostanin clearly you didn't watch the video lmao, moron.
@CogniVision
@CogniVision 8 жыл бұрын
+Matvey Ostanin even if it exists, obviously this guy didn't have it. Therefore he is a charlatan.
@Ahayeahishere
@Ahayeahishere 3 жыл бұрын
@@matveyostanin2846 you are the idiot here hahahha
@OMGWTFLOL99
@OMGWTFLOL99 7 жыл бұрын
I like how he demonstrated it first, definitively showing how it's supposed to react to the ore. "Look, it's pointed at the ore and it's twirling, move it away and it stops" so based on his own demonstration how does he explain how it twirled in front of two empty boxes, and not twirl in front of the ore the first time? Other "psychics" can claim "spiritual interference" or some kind of uncertainty or whatever, but this guy demonstrated how it worked first. When you have an instrument that acts one way under condition A and another way under condition B, it's kind of hard to explain why you're getting condition B results in a condition A situation.
@madscientistshusta
@madscientistshusta 6 жыл бұрын
There must be a large mineral deposit under the stage duh
@Midinette-bu2xq
@Midinette-bu2xq Жыл бұрын
I know this is a 6 year old comment, but if you watch closely you can clearly see that he tenses up to induce the rod to move the way he wants. It's absolutely not reacting to anything.
@akirekoko7415
@akirekoko7415 4 ай бұрын
​@frMidinette-bu2xq
@robotpanda77
@robotpanda77 9 жыл бұрын
Dude you aren't harry potter put the wand away.
@TobyTheRobot
@TobyTheRobot 15 жыл бұрын
I never get tired of watching these.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 11 жыл бұрын
There are different variations - the two bent wires, a Y-shaped stick, a pendulum, the single rod as shown here, etc. Anything which can result in large movement with the tiniest of effort can cause the ideomotor effect to kick in.
@AImighty
@AImighty 10 жыл бұрын
i knew it was the 2nd one, wheres my money?
@Johnny-rx4hs
@Johnny-rx4hs 10 жыл бұрын
Mineral companies hired this guy?
@matveyostanin2846
@matveyostanin2846 9 жыл бұрын
You can go to geologist forum many of them admitted that sometime dowsers did better than them so mineral companies hire some of them.
@Joe22c
@Joe22c 14 жыл бұрын
Mr. Randi was being very generous in this demonstration. The dowser had a 1 in 7 chance of being correct; that's about 14%. That means if he got it on his first try, there was a 14% chance it was due to, well, chance. The scientific method generally adopts an alpha level of 5% MAXIMUM. (For those who haven't taken a statistics course yet, that means a test where significant results only have a x% chance of being due to random chance).
@TheBbergner86
@TheBbergner86 13 жыл бұрын
The way he ends the segments is pure class
@RyanDuncan5
@RyanDuncan5 9 жыл бұрын
Epic fail.
@danielakesson8197
@danielakesson8197 8 жыл бұрын
What happens if you hang this in a string and not hold it in your hand? Shouldn't that be the same result? Oh, of course. If it hangs in a string, he can't move it with his hand! *Doh*
@elgintv
@elgintv 8 жыл бұрын
+Daniel Åkesson No. String is no good. The wooden branch needs the holistic quantum energy passed DIRECTLY from your hands' chakra, and astral guidance! With the proper water memory in tune with the Universe and the Gaia spiritual paradigm shifting, this energy will be amplified and transmitted back to your hands, and the stick will point at the water source! Thusly, a string will not work. Don't you know ANYTHING about string theory? Buy Deepack Chackra's "String Theory for Dummies". It explains it all there. But as you appear to be enthusiastic about divine dowsing (or is it Dowsy Divination? I forget), I suggest you try it with Apple wood. This works best. But! Use only a branch from an apple tree grown in the Northern Hemisphere. Apple wood from the Souther hemisphere (such as Granny Smith apple trees in South Africa) will mysteriously point UPWARDS! Very disconcerting, unless you are looking for thunderclouds! And don't ask me about apple trees grown on the equator. This is called a holistic quantum singularity and your dowsing becomes ineffective. This is why there is no water in Quito Ecuador. Good luck at finding that water!
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 8 жыл бұрын
+Elgin Quebec TV Why search for water when one can simply take the piss! ;)
@WhiteCollarCrimeDNB
@WhiteCollarCrimeDNB 8 жыл бұрын
+Elgin Quebec TV Poe's law is hard at work in this post.
@danielakesson8197
@danielakesson8197 8 жыл бұрын
Richard Desjardin Yea, the overlofite contrafilication is polsaticoius over treffidissations. ;)
@SynxVII
@SynxVII 15 жыл бұрын
its just a case of people remembering when it does 'work' but the many many times it doesn't get forgotten
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
Please explain what it is about the studio environment which negatively affects the results.
@DeNorali
@DeNorali 9 жыл бұрын
If 1 in 5 contain a zinc ingot, then it is about 50% chance that he will have found it on his third attempt. However, even finding it on his first attempt is no more remarkable than rolling a dice and getting a 6. Actually less remarkable.
@wateriestfire
@wateriestfire 9 жыл бұрын
It takes a lot of guts to go on live TV and test your beliefs against an overwhelming skeptic and even sometimes cynical audience. I applaud the dowser for that even if dowsing isn't real
@ebrobaru3j216
@ebrobaru3j216 9 жыл бұрын
wateriestfire There´s not such thing as "bad publicity"
@Siberius-
@Siberius- 9 жыл бұрын
I would say he was thinking more "hmm a million bux? might as well give it a go right?" (I know it's a million dollar prize now, but at the time of that recording it might of been the lower amount before it was $1M, but either way). Plus he works for mining companies it seems.. he would love money lol. But I feel a bit sorry for the downser people sometimes because they often actually think it's real.. they don't realise that it's subconscious, so they get called a fraud but they don't feel like a fraud.. Edit: I'm muting this thread now so no more replies from me
@CogniVision
@CogniVision 8 жыл бұрын
Sometimes I think these guys truly BELIEVE they have psychic powers, why else would they dare let someone like Randi test their ability, when he's got a record of ruining these fakes already? This guy probably placebo himself into thinking he had psychic powers. His mind probably subconsciously moves his arm for him, and he thinks the wand is moving on its own.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 8 жыл бұрын
Spot on. From what I've seen, it appears that pretty much 100% of dowsers are utterly convinced of their ability. I think there are some delusional mediums as well - possibly people who hear voices due to mental illness, but for whatever reason never received medical help, and so continued to the point where they actually believe that the dead are speaking to them.
@Decentralized_World1
@Decentralized_World1 6 жыл бұрын
No he just thought he'd take a shot at winning the money. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain. If he happens get lucky at his first attempt not only will he take the money randi was offering but also use the publicity to make more money out in the mining fields.
@GULF-BANK
@GULF-BANK 8 жыл бұрын
I can find a water main, along a street or side walk, using the two metal pieces from those small flags used to mark gas lines and other underground utilities.
@sixpooI
@sixpooI 3 жыл бұрын
the end is the best... the quick farewell, his face and the way he claps :D
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLordHaton "you could blame that alone for those vehicle crashes I'd mentioned,given you think involuntary movements can effect physical things to such an extent."I'm referring to things such as a minor twitch in the hand or arm, which would be involuntary(You didn't want to make your arm move, yet it did), and with the rods or pendulum, would create a quantifiable effect, ex: the appearance of it moving without the user intending to. If that can be eliminated, then it will be.
@s8ist420
@s8ist420 14 жыл бұрын
@PaladinX500 :It's not about "believing" what Randi has to say. It's about understanding a critical approach to analyzing ideas. It doesn't matter that it's Randi doing it, even though I often agree with him. It's the fact that he's employing these standards for evaluating ideas that any of us should if we want to be critical thinkers.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
"Read about dowsing" The fact that it fails all the time when tested?
@petergreen2260
@petergreen2260 8 жыл бұрын
Having been wrong the first two times the bloke tries again and then says 'let's try number 2.' Love the way Randi says 'here we are at box number 2 - the THIRD GUESS - ah! there we are....'
@MrBaryar
@MrBaryar 14 жыл бұрын
I used to believe pendulums worked the same way(psychic powers etc), until one day I noticed as I was holding it perfectly still a muscle was involuntarily twitching in my hand when it changed directions. I laughed at myself and put it away in good spirits. Knowledge is power!
@MiyaMam948
@MiyaMam948 6 жыл бұрын
Great and informative description
@GetMeThere1
@GetMeThere1 15 жыл бұрын
What makes this really good is the real kicker: the initial demonstration. When he KNEW the zinc was under the box his wand went wild. A nice indication (given his subsequent failure) that--by HIS terms, it should have worked--and that "working" means he created the movement himself.
@UFCWARRIORification
@UFCWARRIORification 10 жыл бұрын
I think for a dowsing rod to be successful there needs to be an insulator (i.e. a plastic pipe or something ) between my hand and the rod. The reason for this is, as my body contains current and then my current affects the rod. any little thing could cause the ideomotor effect to kick off - just with the current in my body - so I think there would need to be something between me and the rod or it will go off falsely. does that make sense?
@skarpzor
@skarpzor 11 жыл бұрын
Don't recall him ever saying this is a scientific experiment, He calls them controlled testing, fits perfecly with what he is doing. He have done other Dowser experiments that are double-blinded and with setups to replicate underground water systems in Australia so i would recommend you give them a look. Thank you.
@adeworks
@adeworks 14 жыл бұрын
@adeworks Are you saying you have tried it?
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLordHaton A common ex. is checking the pressure in an tire;its difficult to do without letting out some of the air=changing the pressure.This effect can be observed in many fields of physics.Now,I dare you to state where the observer effect would come into the experiment as stated. Can you do it without relying on something which depends on extremely high energy/temp or very low temperatures, which the average person wouldn't be able to generate?
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 15 жыл бұрын
Then how would you account for the consistent failure of dowsing under every controlled test in which it has been subjected to?
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLordHaton 1.) accidents in UK - The searches "Accidents Road Water UK" and "Accident anomaly Road Water UK" turn up no results with anything that you refereed to (accident blackspot (somewhere in the UK)). Although, in regards to the climate in the UK (cold and wet) interacting with roads, it is plausible that with freezing temperatures and water interact to create ice that slowly breaks the road, making it rough to drive on.
@SamLBInj
@SamLBInj 12 жыл бұрын
How do I Demonstrate it? I have done this many times blind folded just for fun. I do not know why or how it works. I also do not need any special type of rods. I found it amusing when I saw people adding magnets and a lot of other strange ideas. I can just grab my Stainless Steel Prober, Hold the tube handle with the point sticking straight out and it will turn and pull to the underground pipe. The Probe is 4' feet Long and is used to poke through the sand to make sure the pipe is there.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@karslake10 If dowsing has limitations that you can specify and if it provides results greater than one would expect from random chance, it can be tested in a controlled manner.
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 14 жыл бұрын
@AfterFauve001 you mean Arthur C Clark, the author? The writer of 2001 Space Odissey? That Arthur C Clark?
@phREaker419
@phREaker419 13 жыл бұрын
@UncleFeedle Thank you for your time.
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 13 жыл бұрын
@adeworks what evidence do skeptics refuse to accept?
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@phREaker419 But you appear to believe in what you call 'metaphysical phenomenon', apparently different planes of existence and 'forces' of some kind. What do these mean and on what do you base this viewpoint?
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@phREaker419 Claims regarding the existence of 'metaphysical phenomenon' and the 'physical plane' are essentially meaningless when it isn't clear what either of these are supposed to mean. What is 'metaphysics' to you?
@Ty4ons
@Ty4ons 14 жыл бұрын
There are many phenomenons like this where the person himself applies the motion without knowing it. Something similar you can try yourself, stand in a door opening and push your arms against the sides for some time and then step out if it, if all went as planned your arms should levitate upwards without you doing anything.
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLordHaton I also mentioned that two searches, that should have turned up results for it, never turned up anything. Perhaps I should try that type of search again, with Urban Myth included? For those of us who don't have the latest technology put into the cars, dash displays with the tire pressure are unavailable. But, in the case of using a pressure gauge, you do change the pressure in the tire, even if it is by an amount that most people wouldn't care about.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
Right, that's a step forward towards clarity. This is what I draw from that statement: In tests of psychic claims, including dowsing, you reject natural explanations (such as ideomotor) that have supporting evidence because you feel they are unfair or invalid in some way. Is this correct? If it is not, please rectify as simply as possible.
@mooktank
@mooktank 14 жыл бұрын
Priceless
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@lesjcbs In order to determine that, you would first have to specify what dowsing is capable of and what its limitations are.
@BethJill
@BethJill 13 жыл бұрын
@crazyknight2008 If you watch all the parts, there's actually one guy who doesn't do too badly. I'm certain it's all just luck, but he's some sort of dowser who finds the right spot on a map and then is able to 'diagnose' a bad spot on the floor. The ones that fail horribly are the most fun to watch, though.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 15 жыл бұрын
The JREF posted a video of an official test of pendulum dowsing just recently. Look up 'Connie Sonne Paranormal Challenge'. There are also videos of the press conference held afterwards.
@lesjcbs
@lesjcbs 13 жыл бұрын
Einstein on dowsing said, "I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as they do astrology, as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time." I AGREE.
@barbarossa1234
@barbarossa1234 2 жыл бұрын
The music is chilling.
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 12 жыл бұрын
@ebrobaru Betz claims that there were some geological formations that would have made the dowser's predictions difficult, but again this was not a scientific test of dowsing. The third test was a kind of contest between the dowser and a team of hydrogeologists. The scientific team, about whom we are told nothing significant, studied an area and picked 14 places to drill. The dowser then went over the same area after the scientific team had made their choices and he picked 7 sites to drill.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
There is your explanation as to why I am not seeing all your comments, and believe I am skimming over or ignoring them. Sometimes comments also appear out of sequence, appear much later, or not at all.
@topgun920
@topgun920 15 жыл бұрын
it worked in the beginning under the green box. Why wouldn't it work afterward?
@Microja
@Microja 13 жыл бұрын
@lesjcbs Can you give an explanation for how dowsing works using accepted science?
@bccritters
@bccritters 15 жыл бұрын
im NOT into this, BUT a few years ago i did test it. i ran single blind tests (randomly drawn shuffled cards, and also penny dates) and recorded the results. black vs red on cards igot 52%, not a great result. BUT when i tested exact face falues, i was right 10 times in a row. after that my results were extremely poor, about what chance would give. to this day i never got those remarkable results. have you ever taken the time to test any of this yourself? seriously curious.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@phREaker419 I agree, but ambiguous statements such as "metaphysical phenomenon is impossible to actually conduct on this physical plane and "there have been times however, when the two areas have merged spontaneously" appear to be making claims. We must remember that while it's interesting to speculate on how paranormal powers etc might work, without any evidence of such, there is nothing even requiring an explanation.
@adeworks
@adeworks 13 жыл бұрын
@danielmewes I am well versed in quantum theory. The reason why there could be connection is because quantum theory at the deepest level suggests that the universe is holographic, and that everything is connected, and our idea of separateness between things is illusory. Our minds (conciousness) may well be fundamentally linked to - in fact a part of - space-time geometry which could explain much 'paranormal' phenomena.
@pr0kris
@pr0kris 14 жыл бұрын
@UncleFeedle Yeah, Randi discusses it in another video and in greater detail on his website. It's called the Ideomotor Effect. Derren Brown also uses it to his advantage a lot. Of course, he too, is a skeptic.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@lesjcbs "I have yet to find one that is completely saturated" - Presumably by 'completely saturated' you mean strewn with metal objects at every step which is not what I said. "there are lots of stuff around" - exactly. Lots of stuff around. It isn't difficult to locate metal objects at random, particularly in the locations you describe, without relying on supposed dowsing power. If you can locate metal objects more accurately than a metal detector, this claim can be tested fairly easily.
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLordHaton You've also yet to mention where it was, aside from a broad stroke such as UK. Now,observer effect: In physics,the term refers to changes that the act of observation will make on the phenomenon being observed.This is often the result of instruments that,by necessity,alter the state of what they measure in some manner.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 15 жыл бұрын
If a test is designed correctly (and with the dowser's full co-operation) there is no difference between it and what the dowser normally does. What has changed and why would it affect the dowser's performance?
@XGralgrathor
@XGralgrathor 14 жыл бұрын
« so complex in its design and its mechanism, and all of its parts MUST be present for it to work at all, that there is no way » Ah, the argument from personal incredulity. Never heard that one before.
@adeworks
@adeworks 13 жыл бұрын
@SteDeRaver I have no powers! I'm not even a dowser. I just tried it once and it worked, but that seems too much for most people to compute. Why not try it and see.
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 13 жыл бұрын
@adeworks I agree, sometimes skeptics can turn to hard core believers themselves. However science itself is not afraid to say "I don´t know", or better yet, "I don´t know YET". But as I said before, most of such cases are easily explained by normal means. A handful of them remain unexplained
@proatheism
@proatheism 15 жыл бұрын
Excelent work.
@lesjcbs
@lesjcbs 13 жыл бұрын
JR: I'm back. Thought I sould keep you up to date. Just got through dowsing at our city park. Went right to a blue Ever Active AA battery then a piece of an aluminum can, then to a penney. The battery is dead, the aluminum shines and the penney is so corrided, I cann't read when it was struck. Maybe some day after I have found more items, I'll come and dump them on your desk. I promise if you pick up a pair of dowsing rods, you won't turn into a pumpkin.
@tellnet
@tellnet 13 жыл бұрын
@TRUNDLETHOR . . What if you typed before consuming LSD ?
@spiderwebb33
@spiderwebb33 13 жыл бұрын
the whole time he's probably like "o shit plz let me guess the right one"
@fenixikkiaries
@fenixikkiaries 14 жыл бұрын
CONTINUED......... Also, soemthing that should be cleared up. When using any dowsing tools, you are willfully allowing demon spirits to partially if not totally control your hand movements (which may be so slight that it is not visible to the eye) that will cause the tools to move, cross, etc. I have felt this phenomenon when practicing with a pendulum. You feel twitches and involuntary muscle movements as well as energy in your fingers that is not your own.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
I'll bet if you were to stick a map of the area on a wall, and select locations by throwing darts at it, you would get an equally conclusive result. Dowsing has to be tested under proper observing conditions to determine whether it has any merit. It must provide results that significantly exceed mere random chance. No dowser has ever been able to do this.
@lesjcbs
@lesjcbs 13 жыл бұрын
Part 2. I first dowse to get a rod cross, flag the spot as ground zero (GZ), then I bring in my metal detector to pin point where the target is. Metal detectors and the dowsing method for metals compliment each other. I own four metal detectors and each have their own capabilities and limitations. No two are the same.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@IceAges14Aces What you're seeing in this video clip is a simplified test performed for television. It isn't meant to meet the standards of an actual JREF preliminary test, which would take far longer to conduct than the time available on this show. I would add that the dowser probably has a greater chance of passing this than an actual test conducted by the JREF, which are often developed with the help of statisticians and other experts. Visit the JREF site for examples of the real deal.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 15 жыл бұрын
If you can demonstrate that objects give off 'frequencies' detectable by dowsing, that alone would totally revolutionize our understanding of physics. It would be one of the greatest scientific breakthroughs since the discovery of electricity.
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLord In which case, these results would prove your claims about dowsing to be wrong: 1.) the ore is found after a number of tries that probability would dictate to be the most likely amount of tries before the specified substance is found. 2.) Dowsing rods of a different type react when used by a person in the way that the one designed to detect that substance (as this would show that it is the result of the ideomotor effect, not the item used).
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 14 жыл бұрын
@jtizz711 yeah, but it´s amazing how they always fail when a proper controlled test is performed. Of course, there is also the fact that if you dig deep enough, you will eventually find water in about 98% of dry land.
@TheFounderUtopia
@TheFounderUtopia 14 жыл бұрын
I could contend the suggestion that we can clearly see him moving it side to side, what we can see is clear movement of his hands, at one point obvious movement in an upward-doward direction when he gets it going, but the subtleties of then adding a horizonal swing are not clear enough to pick up on a video of this quality. Either way, the point I was making is that it's irrelevant to point out that he moves the rod, as he never claimed he was not moving it, and even admitted that he does.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
Right, I'm beginning to get it. You have the impression that I'm out saying "dowsing isn't psychic - it can't possibly be because ideomotor reaction explains everything. Therefore we should dismiss the claim that there's psychic power involved here". Is THIS correct?
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 14 жыл бұрын
@AfterFauve001 If you can´t produce static electricity it means that you are doing something wrong. Because there is the "knowhow" of how to produce it. Not the same case with dowsing
@boonw
@boonw 14 жыл бұрын
@fkoff99 Its the hand movements, and just the hand movements. Can you show me an example of them being able to do it blindfolded? Can you show me it working with a mechanical aparatus? Can you show me demonstrations of blind tests like this one?
@KittenKodersViews
@KittenKodersViews 12 жыл бұрын
That reminds me of how so few people realize just how much water is under deserts, they think divining rods help them find water but really you have a high chance of hitting an underground river in desert terrain when you dig anywhere near cacti.
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracOverLordHaton Although with that aside, what is your argument that if society recognized aether & dowsing as facts and had been doing so throughout the Industrial Revolution and later? I'm curious as to what would make somebody think that.
@SamLBInj
@SamLBInj 12 жыл бұрын
I agree with all of you about the safety of my men. I would never put them at risk and they kn ow that. Most of them have worked for me for close to 20 years. As I have stated before, I have never once not located an underground utility. Every single time they dig it is there. I also call the Mandatory Underground Utility dig lines and have also helped them locate mismarked lines. I am only looking for answers, thats all.
@AfterFauve001
@AfterFauve001 14 жыл бұрын
@ebrobaru so if I can't produce static electricity that means the laws of science and nature no longer work? =VhWQ-r1LYXY just because it is not the most reliable does not mean it does not exist.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 13 жыл бұрын
@karslake10 Fine. According to you, dowsing provides results greater than chance within certain known limitations. Therefore, it can be tested in a controlled manner. Of course, you will never attempt to do this, and like other dowsers, will instead come up with some rationalization to exempt it.
@TheFounderUtopia
@TheFounderUtopia 14 жыл бұрын
@UncleFeedle This is a loaded question. Do I believe that all claims should be explored? In order to be absolutely sure that what we believe is true, then yes, we are obligated to give due consideration to every claim - in an ideal world. In this world of finite resources and limited time, however, I am fully aware that it's not realistic to expect people to do so. To that end I understand without condoning that scientists will routinely ignore that which seems too ludicrous to bear fruit.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 14 жыл бұрын
The dowser states that he gives the rod a 'voluntary upward movement'. We can see him doing this. So far, fair enough. However, he is apparently not aware that when he points the rod at the target, he is adding a sideways movement as well, which is also clearly visible. It is this which causes his up-down movement to become a circular motion.
@ebrobaru
@ebrobaru 14 жыл бұрын
@linz2d you are right, I haven´t found out the published results. However, I can tell you that that was not the first time they "tried" those types of approaches. They also investigated a lot, remote viewers, psi and the results were also zero, so the projects were abandoned after many dollars were spent. Had they been successful, by now they would have been published because of the time that has gone bay. Failures are seldomly published.
@bccritters
@bccritters 15 жыл бұрын
what about the people finding oil wells and treasure? and according to even Randi, they dont ALWAYS fail, only right about what we might expect from chance. have you ever tried it yourself? just curious.
@pitcalco
@pitcalco 13 жыл бұрын
@adeworks You say you have tried dowsing? Did it work for you? I am inclined to agree with UncleFeedle on this matter, yet I will not knock you if it seems to work for you. As someone who is looking to dig a well, I would be interested in it as a curiosity, although I am extremely sceptical. Of course, no drilling company I have met has ever suggested dowsing.
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 15 жыл бұрын
It depends on how you define them. If you are asking me whether people occasionally have strange experiences while relaxed, sleeping or near death, I would say yes. If you are asking whether I think such experiences are examples of a person's soul, spirit, etc leaving their physical body and/or encountering an existence beyond death, I would say it is very doubtful, since there is insufficient evidence to support those claims.
@71kaye
@71kaye 5 жыл бұрын
Not at all what I was expecting. Suspected a test where he went around, noting the number ( but not the content) under the picked boxes each time. rearrange, rinse repeat. Then the big reveal at the end that NONE of the boxes contained zinc. Taking chance out of the picture and proving Randi's point
@UncleFeedle
@UncleFeedle 12 жыл бұрын
@karslake10 I tested it under conditions in which the possibility of success through random chance or cheating was eliminated. Whether you use bent wires, a forked stick, a pendulum, a rod or anything else, if you test it under the same conditions, you will find that dowsing fails.
@NoNamesLeft0102
@NoNamesLeft0102 13 жыл бұрын
@DracLordHaton Just as many that have had as many possible variables covered. If they don't have every possible variable covered, and it isn't controlled conditions, then it can't be accepted as evidence. As far as knowing if I was moving it or not, remember: IDEOMOTOR EFFECT, minute movements which the person in question isn't aware that they are making. Having something as a control to that would be needed, otherwise, once again, any results can't be accepted as proof.
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