These are the sort of people who should be at the helm of our economic systems

I'm a simple man - I see an interview/video with Jason Hickel and I immediately like and share it.

What Jason Hickel says makes total sense.

Seen Prof. Varoufakis with Prof. Hickel together, feels like two giants unite, forming a new bigger and better "Transformers" robot, fighting for Decolonization-Equality-Justice. So glad see you two "together"!

I recently read Jason’s book Less is More out loud to my dad and it lead to some fruitful conversation. I especially love the chapters focused on the origins of capitalism and the Golden Age of of European Proletariat.

There are so many comments that could be made about this mesmerising conversation. The new story that will replace this one is already created and we must elect those who understand this conversation, deeply. The future is bright but only if there is a collective awakening into this new story..

Wow I’m blown away by this. It seems like we are in sleep mode on what’s happening around us. You just made sense to my mind on what is happening in South Africa now. I just learnt so much.

My 2 favourite thinkers in a conversation! Thank you

Oh wow. My heart literally skipped a beat when I saw this video. Can’t wait to dig in. I love Jason. You could also talk to Kate Raworth or Timothee Parrique too who are also geniuses when it comes to this topic.

Probably the only 2 guys I want to hear speak about the economy

Thank you to all 3 for a fascinating conversation.

They know, Yanis, they know what they're doing. In the US they call poor or homeless "losers". They despise poor people.

Great discussion. Thank you for making it. Thank you all 3 of you for encouraging critical thinking and debate.

Fantastic conversation. Great to hear Yanis over-ruled for once ;)

Jason Hickel is brilliant to listen to Thanks.

🔥 been waiting for Yanis and Jason to talk-now get Kohei Saito on here with them and complete the troika

Fantastic insights from both Jason and Yanis.

This whole series of discussions is incredible. Thank you.

Thank you all for your intelligent and inclusive understanding of what we are seeing and experiencing across the world. This kind of thinking and constructive researched ideas gives me hope all is not lost.

Universal basic income would help people to work fewer jobs, encourage a start up locally providing jobs. Fewer journeys, less stress. Trial of this shows encouraging growth in the local economy. Imho. Thank you

The idea that essentials should be a right for all and not subject to markets is a huge shift in thinking for so many people and showing a vision of how this could be is going to be essential to help them make this seismic shift. Yanis's book and discussions such as this are a great start but there is so much more to do. I feel personally buoyed by this kind of discussion, evolving the picture of how we could live. Also, while I am no fan of set piece confrontational setups I was glad to see some disagreement in this episode as it only through questioning and offering alternative viewpoints that we will evolve a more workable picture. Many thanks.

So glad y'all are sharing these interviews!!

Well done everyone, so wonderful to hear accurate, balanced accounts of our situation & genuine discussions on what we urgently need to be doing to peacefully advance.

Mind blowing ❤

Professor Hickel nails the issue in the first 3 minutes. The reason that corporations have not moved towards renewables, is that they are far less profitable. This is surely justification for state ownership of energy production.

With deep respect to all of you. Tackling huge problems of history, the world's economies, what happened, and where we are now. How may it be improved ? Thoughtful and educated insights here. One should read the short story by Tolstoy," How Much Land Does One Man Need." We need some humor with the dire situation our world faces today.

great point here about the dystopia of wealth inequality in london 53:45 thank you for talking about this, please keep speaking for these people! we must oppose the capital owners, power to the people!

I’m very relieved/comforted/humbled by Yanis taking ecology into his insights of economy at large. This has probably been the one criticism I’ve had, but this is the mechanism of deliberative debate and democracy we ARE, and wish everyone to be part of forming! Our challenge (seen here in Norway) are how we narrate history itself towards a typical voter. E.g. I use the term “commodification of labour”, people under 45 have naturalised waged work - there’s no other possible sustenance. Those older get furious, because they _own_ capital - however indebted they are. I’d say “class consciousness”, and they run off and vote “far right” from pure fear… Mention Hegel or Marx just as “tools” for understanding (general dialectics), well… Education shut this out four decades ago, creating the above implications. What a power move back then. Well, point taken, I guess… Our organisation (the left in general) will need to “re-invent” not long standing facts/emiricism, but indeed how they can be _communicated_ today. I know this is ongoing, though. DiEM’er since 2020, Oslo Collective. Carpe Diem! 🔥

Thanks for such a rivetting and thought-provoking conversation on a topic that has been very much at the fore of my thinking over the last few years.

Love you Yani. Never stop.

Thanks for a wonderful discussion. Jason is sublime! One concern is hearing Yanis naively suggest exploitation is not pre-meditated by ruling classes............. Wish Yanis would change his thinking here to allign authentically with the working classes.

About time, wondering when this conversation was going to happen. Nice one!

What a conversation. Please have a follow up guys. Thank you

Absolutely brilliant conversation. And so necessary. Thank you.

Would be amazing to have these conversations broadcast on mainstream media to enlighten the more traditional audiences OR do we need to wait for legacy media to dissolve with time ?

Awesome talk guys. Exactly the issues that need talking about. Been preaching it myself for years, we need a fair energy exchange system...

Fantastic discussion. I learnt a lot

Great discussion 👍

Wonderful podcast. That Trump quote was fascinating. Perhaps this is also the reason why Jordan Peterson reacts so hysterically to any ecological argument. He seems to equate capitalism and growing economies with humanity itself. In this perspective ecological activism is a war against humanity.

Great discussion. There is a fundamental competition between the modernized capitalist consumer-driven economy and the native subsistence eco-socialist economy wherever it has continued to exist. The modern capitalist resource intensive consumer lifestyle requires the privatization of resources from the commons, like water, arable land, timber, minerals, etc in order to provision the insanely high per capita needs of its ever-growing population. When modern developed countries outstrip their provisioning needs, they find "modern" ways to extract those resources from lesser developed countries that can easily be dominated by a mixture of finance & politics. When that fails, then they revert to the use of military force to achieve their provisioning objectives. When subsistence eco-socialist economies outstrip the productive capacity of their natural environments, they try to migrate to an undeveloped natural environment that can resume the provisioning of their modest subsistence needs. When that fails, they revert to the use of military force against their neighbors to take what they need. In both cases, the behavior of us apex predator primates is fairly predictable, and no matter what socio-economic system you create if you add people at a greater rate than they die off then your ever-expanding population will require ever-increasing provisioning of all essential resources. The more materialistic the lifestyle, the more resources will need to be provisioned and the greater the destructive side effects of production on the natural environment. Eventually, the destructive side effects will result in potable water depletion, deforestation, topsoil erosion, biodiversity loss, toxic pollution, and climate change over a greater & greater geographical area. Eventually, conquest, domination, exploitation, extraction and privatization are met with the ever-growing counter provisioning needs & actions of competing societies that can only be resolved by military conflict over control of the contested resources. Rinse & repeat. This is the history of our species. The transition from a temperate interglacial climate to a hot/humid greenhouse climate will be as existentially challenging as the Ice Age was for our ancient ancestors. They had to innovate, adapt, cooperate and compete in order to survive the increasingly hostile climate conditions. We will have to do the same. Both capitalism & eco-socialism will play their roles in the human future. We will need the best of both in order to have any future at all. Innovate, adapt, cooperate and compete. The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Constant growth on a finite planet is impossible.

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The aggregate value measure vs the quality of life resources and services measure (25:00) is a great point, made by Jason, and would make a great short.

thank you

So glad you had the destroyer of Steven Pinker on!!

🧡Love🧡this🧡video🧡

Adam Smith wrote to some degree about these issues in ‘The Theory of Moral Sentiments’, which almost no one has heard of and is certainly never cited

Inspiring coversation.

AND the People and their LIFE should only have basic rights/rules/lows… however, Bussinesses should be highly regulated… Your talkes gives so MUCH hope for “we the People”… Thank you❤️❤️❤️

If you are in the EU i encourage you to look up the political party Yanis founded, MERA25. We are running in the EU elections and we need all the votes we can get.

We are living through a crisis of humanity and not addressing this as equally important in any plan is a lethal mistake. All our problems interweave with this.

I like the idea of free market cooperatism. Sounds like it could help bring some wealth back to the people

Thank you

Rationality for a change

Great!

Thank you.!

Fabulous

that was cool af. This project is really kicking arse.

Thanks a lot!!!

I wish these wonderful minds could breakdown how Finland is purported to be the happiest country

I wouldn't choose the word "degrouth". I prefer "balance", "fairness". I really like the Heidi&Alvin Toffler perspective of Wealth Creation. How they view economy as not only monetary. And how people contribute to wealth creation in a non monetary economy. So, in a very intelligent society non monetary economy is aknowledged and valued. The economy is always flowing and balanced. This intelligent economy is like phisics and could even be translated in formula. Society is considered as a all, not as classes. It's the difference between an alive system and a stagnant system. This corporate capitalism is a stagnant system, rigid, greedy, and built on slavery. That's what they want. That's why Gaza genocidec is waking up people to this slavery. These corporations have such a power that only boycottsvon them really work. They don't care about people' suffering. They can even live with genocide.

Good video

HealingTruthALL

This is a fascinating subject, but unfortunately audio levels for Jason Hickel were so poorly adjusted that it was very hard to understand him when he spoke.

It can be overcome, but it will never be because we aren't making any decisions. We are just pones in game.

Great conversation and a lot of interesting ideas however im interested to know what role the State plays in this transition and its role after the transition if any. Hickel seems to allude to some anarchist model of organisation but it isnt clear.

Holy shit holt shit most GOATed crossover ever I',m so fucken excited to watch this shit!

We as a species may be evolving, if ever so slowly but our systems are buckling under the weight of their own antiquity and inadequacy.

23:00 GDP discussion (Gross Domestic Product). I have an objection to the description of GDP by Hickel. GDP is not aggregate output (total production in a year), but it is only monetary output; it measures only the monetary value of goods & services that are sold on the market for money. That is, it ignores the nonmonetary production of nature and human communities (e.g. sustenance economy of a traditional village). I am quite surprised that an ecological economist like Hickel didn’t emphasize this; words are important. This means, the aggregate output can increase, even when monetary aggregate output (GDP) decreases, as the nonmonetary production grows faster than the decrease in GDP (e.g. growth of commons in local communities).

Where to find your political program. Who is in charge of handimg out the adequate formulars to vote diem

humanity has to radically re-evaluate what its priorities are. Not only beyond capitalism but also beyond rampant materialism, beyond individualism without sacrificing individual potential. PS Hikel needs to speak more slowly and with clearer diction. All great ideas must be clearly articulated!

I am reading The Nutmeg’s Curse by Amitav Ghosh and what struck me is that the MEANING got lost. There is no connection whatsoever to the earth. Then i knew enough. To help restore meaning is not only vital, but the only thing and this takes years to come.

Thanks!

Thanks to you all. Greetings from Canada. Yes the roof is still leaking and recently badly. Is someone going to repair it somehow, or do we need a new architecture?

39:12 shares are better over, whats better is crowd funded loans through digital transaction platforms owned by local businesses and supported by their best customers

My understanding of Marx was abolition of commodity production was the goal along with the wage labour - capital relationship, not Partial de- commodification. Will " post capitalism" have wage labour etc?

Was anyone else interrupted by an advertisement from the Hoover Institution?

45:50 *capitalist externalities* “Violence in the periphery is necessary for the continuation of capital accumulation in the core.”

great video, one point to note...it was suggested that our ecological crisis could easily be solved if we shifted our priorities and resources. While I agree with the point being made, sadly, due to overshoot, we will not be able to reverse the damage done to our climate and renewable energy cannot solve our predicament.

35:50 would love to hear yanis discus cybersyn or talk to people like paul cockshott

37:05 *decommodify social services sector* “I think there should be universal public services for everything that is necessary for survival. So we should prioritize public production of the things we know to be most important: healthcare, education, affordable housing, nutritious food, clean energy/water, childcare/eldercare, recreational facilities, parks-this is the core of it. The core economy should be decommodified, access should not be mediated by prices and income. But the rest of the economy where we’re producing coffee makers and watches and beer or whatever. There’s no reason that this cannot be mediated by markets-but they should be post-capitalist markets right.”

laborers are not listening (for the most part) because they are either working or recovering from work.

At the 43 minute mark guu brings up the need for Trotsky Permanent Revolution

What we have now is what happens, over time, when political sociopaths are afforded adult authority in a society. A political sociopath is someone who is willing to do harm to another for the sake of opportunity, social capital, hierarchy, profit and/or pleasure. All governance will descend into oligarchy, plutocracy and fascism at rates that are determined by the quality and stability of its consensus seeking strategies, the tolerance/intolerance of bad faith actors in its processes, its best practices policies and the quality of the documentation of data that goes into the making of its policy choices.

Also don't like GDP per capita. It's not a useful measure.

I really think that they should invite a thinker like Roberto Unger, who is a leftist who does not agree with the Marxist analysis of the economy.

Good

Introduction to Economic Cybernetics Oskar copyright ©️ 1970 Stafford Beer The fsther of managerial cybernectics - Big Data analysis including cybernectic glossary Vanilla Beer & Allenna Leonard copyright ©️ 2019

HealingLoveALL

Yanis Varoufakis; that 50% reduction is becoming/is the accepted norm; at least in Australia.

Will decarbonization in the global north compensate for the increesing emissions in the global South?

As I see it, as long as money is higher valued than labor, the current system will rule. At the end all prosperity origins from labor, ie farming, building houses, planting cotton for clothing etc... The white collar workers actually don´t produce anything. We just manage the blue collar workers because we´re taught that they need to be managed...

My faaaaaav

I love it when a guy with round glasses tells me how great the world could be if it would conform to his wishes, if he had control of productivity capacity and capital. This illiberalism will never be tolerated and must be rejected without equivocation.

26:29 Jason, i like you Jason first westerner to say something useful in years, my models say you are heading in the right direction

Political sociopaths require hierarchy to manage the conflict they create with their abuse and exploitation. Economic hierarchy is the most powerful in that it keeps the causal agents aloof, to a greater extent, from the conflict they create, with the use of proxies.

Capitalism depends on growth because the owners of capital demand return on their investment. In short, societies are held hostage by those who refuse to share their wealth willingly. The demand for return on investment translates into the pursuit ofeconomic growth

The problem with money is the value part and the fact you have to get it. Once you put value to it people will horde it. Also, how do you calculate value to money in a post capitalist economy ?

The Trump quote was funny.

30:30 Very interesting example by Varoufakis from the history about the delusional GDP measure: Much better lives of Australian aborigines with zero GDP as Captain Cook discovered them with dismay. This example should remind us that nature is the primary producer, and modern industrial human tries to replace biological automation (i.e. living technologies of nature) by mechanical automation (i.e. mechanistic nonliving technologies of human) just because mechanistic human technologies are more profitable for Big Money. See Ecosystem Mutilation and Patching Business