All of these comparison videos have been created using the same method. They are sending the amp models into the same 3rd party IR and this is a totally valid test. We (Fender) have already stated that (for now) this will yield less authentic results than using our factory IRs. We are already working on (and were long before these videos were posted) implementing more capabilities into our 3rd party IR block that will enable the desired results. This will also have a positive outcome when using external IRs and/or a SS power amp driving a real cabinet. Today (12/3) is literally the 2nd month post-launch for TM Pro. We have a long roadmap of updates planned that include not only new features and models but also tweaks to current features that were in the product on launch day. We (Fender) really appreciate the engagement and feedback we’ve gotten thus far and are excited to implement some of the suggestions. The best part about all products like this is the ability for continuous improvement that enhances the playing experience on all platforms. We’re excited to have you all be a part of that process. Jason S. - Product Director, Fender Amps

Completely fascinating. It confirmed my feeling that Line 6 finally got it right with the new 2203 model. Couldn't agree more that the Axe, Helix and Quad all produce very fine and usable tones. Informative and enjoyable demo, as always.

Amazing how close they all sound. I really believe at this level of modeler it's all about which one has the features you need and the models you prefer.

Great vid. I’ve been using tubes amps all of my career. I dabbled with a couple of modelers here and there. I was never really sold on them. I pulled the trigger on the quad cortex a couple of months ago and couldn’t be happier.

Just wanted to say thanks so much for your content Leon this was fantastic!

Awesome video! The comparison was very well done and all the modellers except the Tone Master sounds great and very similar to each other. Love all your videos, but as a QC owner I am extra happy to see it being featured!

Usually I don't like "comparison" videos but this one was good - You sure made sure to compare the right things, only the amp block and nothing else. Cool outro stuff :)

That's why I'm not in a rush for the Tone Master Pro. I knew there would be a few bugs in it, and will get sorted out in the next revision. Good one Leon👍

Armed and Ready has been my "go to" sound check riff for years! It cracks me up to hear you using it so much as well. How about "Get Out" from the first McAuley Schenker Group record or "Captain Nemo"?

I appreciate the fascination with the JCM 800 and find it curious at the same time. When I had one in the 80s, lots of people did not like them and talked about their inconsistency. Along the way, I got to hear how other folks' JCM 800 sounded in comparison to mine. Sometimes it was similar and other times not so much. I was a teen and knew nothing about variance in electronics, the impact of tubes, and modifications. Heck, I didn't know what a bright cap was or wasn't. Listening to Leon's recording with high quality phones, I hear four similar yet different sounds. They are all under that JCM 800 umbrella. Leon shows us some of limitations with Fender's controls. I recall the controls on the real thing not being that great. I wonder if Fender modeled it as such? Helix's prior version of the 800 reminded me of what Fender has on tap now. Back in the day with amp format, there were variations and no "right" way for 800 to sound. Piggybacking on Leon's prior blog about the future of modeling, I hope users of this format do not come to expect a singular version of an amp but embrace iterations/variations of a given amp. Otherwise, we will all be using the same generic sounds.

From the blind test I preferred them in order A > B > C > D. D seemed really choppy and compressed. A was the most open with a subtle change from A to B. C dropped a little more depth.

God that new Helix 2203 is soooo gooooooooood. Was beyond excited when I saw that in the patch notes. That being said, I actually kinda liked D too. Having that 800 sound with a little extra low end just isn't a bad thing imo, at least on these speakers.

The only one i got right was the Fender. Got the Helix and the QC and couldnt be happier. My main sound on both bases around their JCM800 models

Cool video...thx for taking the time to do this. Its tuff for us who dont know what the interfaces are to match whats on the screen tho. I guessed the first was the axefx due to the horizontal orientation, but i was lost with the rest....

So glad you did this vid. These comparisons are my faves. I would’ve loved to hear them with everything on “5 or 7” …order identically to see which ones were brighter/darker. I also agree that the guitar volume knob test is key. Did they all “feel” the same ? 🤘🏼

Got all models right... Helix user here, I've been really curious about the Fractal for some time, but after hearing what I think is my dream amp on all four platforms, I will hold the new modeler purchase and get another guitar... or a nice pair of FRFR cabs...

Great tutorial and demo videos! Fortunately Fender TMP's JCM 800 has been updated since this video, making this comparison obsolete. I wish you'd do more TMP related videos, I love your work here.

love the accuracy of your test!

Great Video ;) My favorite MSG riff is Broken Promises on Assault Attack album 🤘

I preferred C > A > B > D QC models always seem to have a bit more low mid, and some folks like that more, so I can't fault it. Just a different flavor to what I'm used to.

Absolutely stunning the differences between the 1st three and the last one. Thanks for the comparisons!

thanks for great comparison , leon. I was lying in my bedroom listening to it on my phone, then sat down in front of the computer to listen closely. Fractal (A)'s bite, palm muting, and aggressiveness when scratching chords are truly amazing. I don't know if this makes sense, but "it's the quietest, but it's also the most focused." B also tried its best, but it was a little softer than A (I couldn't feel it when listening at low volume on my iPhone!) C has a somewhat hollow overall feel. Ah... this feels a little familiar to me. It's the same kind of feeling you could feel in vst, etc. D is weird. Haha sorry.😆

Armed and Ready is my favorite Michael Schenker riff - by far! Awesome comparison! I liked all but the Tone Master Pro.

Michael Schenker fanclub roll call;

As always such a great demo 🤘

Awesome comparison! Leon, I would like to hear your toughts about difference in feel between the model on the Axe FX vs the Helix one... do they feel similar? I own the HX Stomp and I'm very impressed with this 2203 model...

Ooo, I will be watching this later as can’t watch it now . Love comparisons video 👍

Great vid! Thanks Leon

On the initial play-through, I thought A and C sounded the most like an 800....with B close behind, but not sure which modelers they were. Clip D definitely sounded the least 800-ish, so I knew that was the Fender based on your previous demo. Fender has decent unit in the Tonemaster, but they definitely need to fix a few things. Learning clip C was the Helix kinda shocked me! I figured it was the Quad! So I will now be updating my HX Stomp and diving into that 2203! Thanks for the great comparison, Leon!! 🤘🤘

It is unbelievable how good the helix holds up!

At highest end pro level the Axe FX is a must, unbeatable Bang for bucks the Helix is untouchable

This is gonna be a good one. Just based on your previous vids I think the fractal audio has the best sound

Dude! That's the fiff I use, every time I dial in an 800 model! 🤘🏼😸🤘🏼 So great!

Looking forward to the video on that TC 2290 Delay pedal!

That's interesting about the impedance curve modeling being in the speaker block... I almost always use modelers with a SS power amp and cab, and I think the reaction is much better on the TMP compared to others. I'm fully willing to admit that might just be because the UI looks cool too though. I really hope fender supports the TMP and increases the amp quanitity as well as adding in things like power amp modeling (even if only to be able to turn it on and off). Pretty basic things that any flagship should have.

Great comp. With everything coming out about the TMP recently, I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. Too many other platforms way more dialed in at this point. Also, check out One World by MSG, and also at least half the tunes on The Unforgiven album…that album is a clearinghouse of chunky, groovy riffs.

@Leon Todd GREAT comparison. Would you please elaborate on what you mean by the "core tone" and how did you use it? :)

Thanks Leon!

Excellent video. Fender has a long way to go to catch up to these other 3.

This is the video we all needed! Legend.

Leon, I have to say, that you are in fact the expert in the digital amp modelling world and beyond. Thanks for sharing and well done mate or as they tend to say "good on you mate" in your own language.

Great video!!! Would be great a comparison between SLO models from different platforms:)

Good video mate! Cheers for the shout out! Keep it up!

I’ve played through the QC, Stomp, and FM9. They’re all great. FM9, ime, cleans up best of the three.

Great video!!

Awesome video man

Sweet ,Armed and Ready MSG riff ,one of the first i learned back in the day 1981 awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!

I listened to this on some decent headphones. A) had the tightest low end, on that low note palm mute, it had the least flub to the sound, not by a whole lot, but I listened to that first loop a couple times before the reveal and noticed it after the first listen through the loop. The flub got slightly more pronounced to B, then to C… D isn’t in the same ballpark really. I have been a Neural DSP plug-ins and Fractal AX8 user. I just ordered an Axe Fx 3 this week and it’ll be delivered next week. So I was happy to hear this and know that I could not have made a bad choice really between QC and AF3. And since I’m building my dream studio this year, I picked the piece of kit with the most depth.

Leon!! I love you if you do this but comparing Axe fx 3 vs Axe fx 2... Epic

Super cool shootout, Leon. Happy to report I got them all correct. The Fender was the easiest to spot for sure. Cliff still reigns supreme to my ears at least. I thought the timing of the latest Fractal update with the 2203 and the Nobel was curious since those were both included in the latest Helix firmware which was released first. Got any insider knowledge about those overlaps? 😉

Hey Leon, how are you? When will you review the Marshall Studio Silver Jub? Cheers from Portugal 🤘🍺🇵🇹

Axe FX , Helix and Quand Cortex are amazing. Tone master just a step down, but great sounding too. I consider them INSTRUMENTS that bring you the result you're looking for. Just choose the one that make you feel comfortable and enjoy!

Good video! Can u tell me the cortex 's virtual capo is superior to the helix? Tks

On the 1st set B and C sounded really equal, A slightly Different, and D completely off against the other 3. I listened with the ATH 50X headphones. Great video as usual. Thanks mate :)

Great video! I definitely hear some resonance around 3k. Do you usually cut it off when mixing?

My knee jerk favorites in cans were A and C. The Neural almost sounds more like the mid 80s two channel Marshall and the tone Master sounds like an 11 rack.

Listening on phone speakers, A, B and C sound pretty similar but D sounds noticeably darker.

The plot - it has thickened

Great Comparison! I personally prefer the QC! Could you do this comparison but with the Dual Rectifier?

Agree on AxeFx, QC, and Helix being great, but I think I slightly preferred the Axe on the volume roll-down test. As a long time Helix user who switched to Fractal because Helix's Marshalls weren't as good, I think they're finally on to something and hopefully they will continue improving the Marshalls. I still don't think it cleaned up quite as realistically as the Fractal though.

Can you post your DI track so we can compare them to other models? IMO the AxeFX cleans up better and has that realistic built in compression that's trying to keep the high end brightness right in your face, other models sort of get duller and don't make the transients pop. Do you have a treble bleed installed?

Oh sheet here we go. The showdown of all showdowns.

Nice! Certainly one thing to match units, another to recognize difference in adjustability. Bugs aside, the latter generally belies lack of depth in modeling... Is Fender claiming component level modeling?

For most of the test, the Axe and QC were damn close, and I could only barely hear a tiny difference in the Helix. Opening A,B,C, D test, couldn't really tell. I do think the Axe sounded best, and seemed to respond best on the cleanup test. That's the only place I think the Helix was noticeable (got a little more 2D). Yea, the Fender was just not good across the board.

Great video, as always! Question: overall, at this day, which one you prefer to play live the FM 3 or the QC.

Favourite MSG riff? Oof... Cry For the Nations, Feels Like a Good Thing, Looking Out From Nowhere, Assault Attack.... There's quite a few!

Uncle Leon, thanks for another awesome video!!! Fav MSG song = Anytime ❤️❤️❤️

Put them all in a mix and it matters very little. Anything can be mixed to get the song sounding how you want.

Rock Bottom, best Schenker riff 😊

It's worth mentioning that the TMP's speaker impedance curve models are part of the cab/IR block, while the Helix, QC, and Axe FX all include them as part of the amp block. So if you aren't use the Fender's built-in IR block for the IR it's not going to be as authentic sounding as it can be, because there's nothing in the signal chain modeling the interaction between the amp and speaker cab. So unfortunately it's not really a fair test in this specific use-case; it would be better for comparison's sake to use the built-in IR loaders on each unit.

Great as always Leon. To be honest I’m not a digital modelers guy. I build my own guitars, tube amps and pedals. I tried a lot of digital stuff few years ago and always feel there is something missing when comparing to the tube amps and analog pedals. I know the digital processors have gotten better but still I’ve tried some of the new ones and feel the same way but a little less. That said I want to say I didn’t know any of the menu screens you showed so, I still don’t know which is which. I know I can hear the differences among all and the first three were very close indeed. However I prefer C. I could pick up in the video that D was Fender and believe that needs to be fixed. Sounded muffled and didn’t respond well to the guitar vol. Blessings!!

Can the fender TMP do a the aggressive peavey 6505+ distortion tone?

Favorite Schenker riff: Ulcer the Cry for the Nations - partly because it sounds cool and everyone always plays it wrong. 🤣 Favorite live performance on LP: a toss up between Lights Out on Strangers in the Night and Lost Horizons on One Night at Budokan. I just love the way on that track (Lost Horizons) he's always just on the edge of feedback during the solo and uses it as an extra effect. So good. 4:45 on the end of the solo. So good... Schenker, like Malmsteen after him had one simple rule. Every knob on 10. You can't get that lead tone otherwise.

Not sure if this is answers somewhere, but I couldn’t find it. What guitar and pickups were used for this?

Thanks Leo ! What cab and mic are you using in the Helix? I think that could make huge differences in the final sound

Honestly it seems like we've reached the "cork sniffing" era - any of these were completely usable (yeah, the Fender just a tad off.) Helix guy myself, but full props to all the boxes - differences so slight that you'd be hard pressed to discern in any but a solo setting.

can you do a comparison of the Mark and Rectifier models? nobody has yet done it in a good way

That TMP Presence sweep 😗

Maybe off topic: But doesn't the variable input impedance/bright Cap (if available in each of the units) also load the guitar pickups differently when plugged in direct vs. using DI?

C was my favorite during the blind test. D sounded kinda weird. A and B sounded almost identical. Okay. Interesting. After seeing the results, I'm a little surprised I liked the Helix the best. Although, I did hear they knocked it out of the park. The Axe and the QC sounding similar isn't too shocking. The letdown is the TMP, unfortunately.

All the tones definitely get the Schenker vibe correct with minimal variations between them

Wow, Line 6 really improved their sims. Thanks for the good vid

I heard it mentioned that a Fender engineer said their JCM800 was modeled from a vintage one. Not sure if that's entirely true or not, just something I saw someone mention. Hopefully they are able to tweak it to sound a bit better / more like the JCM800 tone we all know and love!

I would be inclined to believe that 800 on the tonemaster might be bugged or something in the firmware isnt letting the EQ moves be heard like they should.

Number 1 non-tosser on you tube mate....to the point with good digestible info

The settings on the TMP tell the whole story. It's fine to do drastic EQ moves when needed but all the other ones are pretty close to "everything at noon-ish", which is a decent tone with an actual 800. Those TMP settings make no sense at all, something is wrong there.

Just stopped at the blind test, the could thing is, they all sound about the same ha. So it doesn't matter what you get. But I preferred the extra bass from D. Now I've watched the video, I understand how much you had to do to make it sound similar. I just like the general added bass anyway. Your preference probably sits better within the mix of a live band though. The best overall was the Axe FX as usual and you can always dial more low end or gain if you want.

The Fractal and the helix sound great here. The QC always has this mid range going it seems to be inherent within the device itself

The best analog JCM 800 pedal is the PedalPalFX PAL 800 god V.4. When substituting the pedal for the amps Pre the difference is nano. I saw a video with a guy who owns a JCM stack do this and he was convinced you would be crazy to want to buy the amp. I run mine thru an old JMP 50 set to just just shy of crunch and amp 100% happy.

I did not get what is A, B, C and D just with seeing the images in the video. Please help. That said, I liked C more.

Fantastic ❤😊

Having owned a Mustang amp (pretty decent Blackface and Tweed tones), Fender is very slow or no-go when it comes to improving or supporting their digital stuff. Hope they’re more motivated these days.

The Fractal is soooooo thin that i thought it couldn't be it! Also the best sounding imho is the Helix!

As a TMP and JCM800 player... Interesting. I've been using a 2204 for over 10 years and recently got the Tone Master Pro. I really love the TMP and it has become my main live rig... But I much prefer using the Plexi model on it. I did try the Helix's new 2203 before selling my Stomp and it was in fact very good. So this confirms that the TMP's 800 just isn't "there". To be fair, the Helix's wasn't until very recently either.

Knew D was the TMP. That being said, the TMP 800 model in this video sounds MUCH better than attempts from previous youtubers.

Well done Leon. This myth that “no two jcm800’s sound alike” is so overblown and become more all encompassing as time goes on. The similarity of the AxeFX, Helix, and QC is the amount of difference you’d expect, and I’d imagine those differences are down to the loads Line 6 and Neural DSP used in their development process. You’re very polite about how you worded the TMP, but I’m not going to hold back - it sounds bad, wrong and there is something clearly wrong with how they are modelling amps. It is not like the Helix 2204 where they accurately modelled an amp with no bright cap, there is an issue with how they approach amp modelling in general.

Hey mate. What chair are you using to sit, record and play on? Kind regards.

i liked A and B, C was ok but a little thinner, D sounded mid compressed and cheap to me.

Thought B sounded best. Why no Kemper?

This was fascinating, i wonder if Randy Rhoads would use a jcm800 in digital format if he were still alive...i like to think company's would have consulted him to nail the perfect tone😂