This is why I learned to do all my own work on my bikes. You bring it to a bike shop, pay a lot of money and they don’t know what they are doing. It’s common knowledge that you don’t need that much grease on the air spring. That’s a great way to clog the equalization dimple. Glad this was recorded so others can see that just because you pay a bike shop to do the work, doesn’t mean the work will be done correctly.

I was in the same boat - was about to give up on the air spring and go back to the old one. I'm on a 2020 Pike 140 with the C1 spring. I saw a recommendation on an MTBR thread to try cycling the fork when you inflate it from 0 every 20 PSI or so. The fork feels completely different. I had my fork running at 75 PSI and it was still feeling harsh, now I'm up at 90 PSI and it's feeling buttery smooth - like I was expecting. Might be worth giving it a shot! Good luck!

Do not use this much SRAM butter! Transfer port will soon block up!

Thanks for sharing your impressions. I’ve got a 2020 Pike Ultimate on my 140mm GT Sensor. I think this new ‘upgrade’ is just RS’s way of appeasing the masses. I have it on good authority that a lot of people were call in to ask the 2020’s we’re sitting a few mm’s into their travel under the bikes weight. Their original stance was that a properly sprung fork/shock should sit into its travel under the weight of the bike. Think of a car’s suspension...you wouldn’t like the ride if it sat at the top of it’s travel. Another way to think of it is that you gain a hell of lot more confidence when stiction is easily broken and wheel is in contact with the trail. A higher sitting fork means it’s taking more force to keep the wheel down and planted. Long story short, the 2020 air spring is where it’s at!! Wake up sheeple!! ;)

This video was funny! Reminded me of The Crashing Dad! Nice tech vid. Enjoyed it! Butnafter reading all the comments and replies, I'm leavong my fork alone for sure. 😊😎

Hello. Don't know how this stem works on a 2016 yari fork. My task is to make it soft for a rider who weighs only 40kg. Maybe you can suggest something else?

the sharp part must be oriented towards you, because the air pushes the safety outwards

Great review and thank you , I’m putting the Rct2 2.1 damper and the new airspring ( 160mm ) on my 2020 Yari ( on a Ragley MmmBop ) hardtail Just curious how you like the lyrik in general on your HT ? The Yari has been great but gets a little harsh on long chattery steeps ( why I’m upgrading )

I have some x fusion forks had a similar problem to what you describe. Harsh off top to the point the forks are holding the bike back and no confidence in the front. I stripped them down 5 time and changed the changed the travel from 140, 160, 120, 140 and still had the same feeling. Last ditch effort if this don't work I'm going to scrap these forks. Maybe due to the nature of my forks and having a coil negative spring. I decided to build them with both air and damper shaft at fully in position then matched the lowers as if it was full bottom out. Fitted foot nuts and pumped up the fork. The forks feel so much better now off the top and sometimes sit in and sag with very small amount of weight on the bars. I'm not 100% if it's the way I inflated/built them or a simple pressure build up in the lowers. All I know is the forks feel better until I can get my hands on something better.

hey mate great video, question what was the size in mm of the spring and the travel of your forks?

Rider: 145 lbs Bike: 2019 Guerilla Gravity Pedalhead 27.5x2.8 Fork: 2019 Pike RC 46mm/27.5/150mm Settings (old): No tokens/75 psi/25% sag Settings (new): No tokens/68 psi/15% sag (on the trail - not current setup) Trail: 23 miles/3.6k' smooth singletracks with multiple 1-2' jumps, fire road highspeed with gravel, roots and rocks on some sections. The small bump compliance were not the same as before. It's a tad stiffer but not bad. What's bad is that the front doesn't seem to track the same and before. Before the tire felt glued to the ground on every small dips and bumps yet easy to pop whenever I want to. Now the front is still easy to pop but I don't trust leaning the bike. It's almost like the front is doing small dribbles like I need to put more rebound. Second thing I noticed was when I would land on these jumps, the frontend will dive. It's not bottoming out and I only feel this when I land from jumps which were only about 1-2' and this is on smooth transition landings. It doesn't dive on brakes or when hitting the berms. When I got home, the first thing I did was to put tokens to resist that dive feel when I land. I then set the sag to 20% and I was able to do this with 65 psi and 2 tokens. Rebound is still the same and I plan on taking the bike out sometime this week to see if I can bring it back to where it was. If I'm not able to figure out this fork, I will put the old shaft back in but instead of 150, I'd throw in the 160 to get the 10mm height and put token/s to help with mid-travel support which is the only thing I didn't have from the old fork. Keep us posted JC!

reduced negative air chamber in the new setup which cleans out small bump sensitivity, more noticeable on short travel setups. so pleased i got the old debonair air spring before they sent the newones to market . if anything they need to go the other way to what they have for long travel and stay the same for short travel.

I have the lyrik 2019 and 2020. Idk if the 2021 air spring is different but I like the 19 model more, too. It is the moment when the wheel touches the ground. Super soft at the beginning and then nice progression. The 2020 is harsher at the beginning and then it falls 1/3 into the travel. I bought an 2019 air shaft for my gf's 2020 fork.

I just upgraded the c1 springs from the b1. I had it on my levo and man, that dead travel when riding steep stuff and trying to turn can be sketchy. Now that it sits at it's proper sag, you can definitely feel where that extra travel in the initial part of the stroke helps. It keeps the fork from diving into the middle of the travel much better.. I feel like it also tracks better too because the sag is finally at a proper 20/30... not 30/30.

Did you get the Pike to feel any better with the new airspring?

I'm reading different numbers for how much lower leg oil to put in - did you dobule check the 10ml on the spring side number?

That final globe of grease was unnecessary.Too much grease.Thanks for the video anyways👍

Not sure I'd this was said but it sounds like the negative chamber wasn't set up properly on the pike.

I felt a big upgrade on my lyrik. No initial lag and could feel the fork through the entire travel

I just did the upgrade for my lyrik. The sag, with the same PSI, changed from 30% to 20%. Was this your experience as well?

I’m wanting to put this upgrade on my Lyrik 170 for the v2 Ripmo. James, did you purchase the parts from WWC?

If you guys think that's WAAYYY too much grease... you should look at the Rockshox airspring service manual, they literally lather a PVC pipe in grease and stick it all in the tube

so on a 2018+140mm revelation would you stick with the stock debonair or upgrade to the 2021 ?

Hello, Im riding on a 2020 130mm revelation with scott's twinloc system connected. Do you know if I can keep the 3 position lock after upgrading to 140mm?

Hi JC what's your latest setup for pike?

To much grease on the negative air side of the piston will make it feel harsh of the top of the travel. Even just a small amount of excessive grease here will reduce negative air volume that the Rockshox Engeneers have worked so hard at to increase with each new model. It's like adding a volume spacer to the negative side.

James I was thinking the air spring didn’t work because you already had the fork in the ultimate build. Perhaps they’re incompatible with the ultimate build spec.

Maybe have it rechecked at the shop?

You probably won't need that many spacers in a short travel fork, takes up almost the whole air chamber. I would try no spacer, recommended air pressure and no compression and go from there. I have the lyrik ultimate with 2021 air spring, 10psi lower then recommended and a half token.

The "more butter = more better" part is how you get suspension to not work as intended... Excessive grease does nothing but clogging oil ports and, when when added very liberally, act as an additional volume spacer.

Just watched the official SRAM/Rock Shox video of this upgrade and the tech in that video uses a fair bit of grease in both the tubes and spring. I assume the commentary here about the grease is just that the quantity used here is too much? Was going to upgrade my spring tomorrow.

At 150mm travel pike or Lyrik for a bigboi?

the fart noise LMAO!!! Perfect timing!

Sounds like your negative air chamber isn't charging, hence why it feels harsh.

Could anyone link a guide for changing just the sealhead not the whole spring? Looks fairly straightforward just want to make sure I'm doing it right

Hi Mate, just wondering how did you go with the pike? Made the change on my 2020 Lyrik and had positive results . Was going to do the same to my pike but hesitant now with your experience. Are you back to the old air shaft now with better results?

Thanks sharing experience. Bummer about Pike. Let us know if you work it out. Probably help a lot of riders.

I have the lyric 150 going to 160mm. How much did your bike shop charge to do the change. Thanks

Can i convert a Rockshox 35 Tk Silver coil to Soloair or Debonair?

They are compatible with boxxer 35mm? DANKE.

Dont you change both air springs?

I also tried the 2021 debonair in my Lyrik 180 and WOW it was nice. Incredibly plush yet supportive. Much better than previous debonair. I just HAD to buy it for my pike 160. But it ended up being harsh as heck regardless of settings!! I had to go back to the old debonair. I think the harshness comes from the significantly smaller negative air chamber in the pike due to the way the piston is designed.. Rock shox probably designed the new debonair in a hurry for Lyrik and thought it would work on the pike as well. They simply cannot have tested it properly. Poor engineering....

i got a spare 160mm debonair airspring that i wanted to use on my Pike ultimate 150 and the new upgrade kit...but sinds you got issues whit yours..im scaptic about upgrading..did you solve the issue already?

I work In a bike shop having that much grease in the air spring is the most common problem I solve with fork suck down.

You don't need to cycle the fork with the new air spring. The seal head sits on top of the equalisation port letting air in both chambers.

My pike at 130 with 3 spacers rode very hard. I went to a single volume spacer and it's wonderful.

I did jump and installed the upgrade kit 2021 on my Pike ultimate - the improvement was amazing. No Harsh at all. I just adjusted my rebound for 1 click slower, HSC for 2 clicks to open and remove one token - currently on one token only with 80psi (psi stay the same as before). Maybe you try to open it again and reinstall it. The plush and smoothness remains after the upgrade- it did stand a little taller.

Same, did the same things on 140 Pike (although i had less vol spacers), just more harsh on bigger hits or jumps, not that pillow smooth landing. I'm going to try 75PSI from 85PSI. I took the LSC down as well, i am not messing w the rebound bc i have that synced w/ my suspension rebound. I definitely like the new Charger...i'm gonna give the Air Spring a few more rides. (if you find the trick pls do a short "addendum" post or IG it por favor).

My experience was definitely different. I didn't notice a huge performance gain, but an improvement nonetheless. Better mid stroke and I didn't lose any small bump sensitivity. If anything, small bump sensitivity was improved. My results were on a Lyrik Ultimate 150mm. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zsyiatei3sebgY0.html

I have a 130 mm pike. Can I go up with more travel with this 2021 debonair?

Negative and positive sides didn't equalize maybe?

Funny, i just "upgraded" from my old V2 5010 to a new V4 (old had a basic Fox with 130mm) and am really disappointed by the pike! First time I'm reading someone else has the same isse, usually everyone loves it! However, i didn't change anything, so it shouldn't be too much grease in it.

for me, it's way toooo much grease on assembly the new shaft! to much grease could block the dimple that equalize the negative and positive chamber! and turn suspension into a pogo stick. normally use less grease a a few drops of oil.

how to order the airshaft

Just fitted the new air spring and now I’m getting a clicking noise when I compress the fork so I stripped it back down and noticed when pressing the air spring in you can hear this kind of suction/click around the new seal head the older debonair doesn’t do this , has anyone noticed this and I’ve not used that much butter.

70, 80, 90++ psi guys!!! No little bit of grease is going to block a hole or dimple and hold all that pressure back..

You want some toast with your butter 🧈😂😂😂😂🤘🏾🤦🏽‍♂️

Sounds like all that grease blocked the dimple in your pike, preventing the negative chamber from filling with air. Too little pressure in your negative chamber = higher break-away force required + harsher midstroke. Take it apart, use about half the butter and you'll be good.

This guy is not a mechanic 🧰 he’s a chef 👨‍🍳 cooking a butter cream butter smoothie!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈

I've got a 2021 air spring for my 2018 27.5 160mm fork... Which I find is harsh o_0 I bought it hoping to soften things up... Sounds like it'll just make things worse >.

A bit confusing...sharp side of C clip should be closest to fitting tool as fitted - which I guess is 'down' when the fork is its normal way up. Also it is not necessary to replace the whole air spring assembly as there is a seal head kit (00.4020.573.000) which makes the upgrade a lot cheaper.

Surprised you don't torque the bolts ?

You should take a look at everflow.it, it is a much better option of both the B1 and C1

The mechanic is right in saying the sharp side of the circlip grips the groove, but he’s fitting it the wrong way round. The sharp side must be facing the outside.

Hey dude, the sharp side of the retaining ring is supposed to face outwards. You put it inwards, can check rockshox instructions yourself...

James, suggestion - It is highly recommended and would strongly suggest to have all the volume spacers removed. The newer forks with the larger negative air spring are designed to have more mid stroke support and with tons of spacers will feel harsh. I'd suggest you remove all spacers and get your support from the air spring as opposed to the damper or spacers. Upside to that is your fork will run that much more efficient as you'll actually likely have to go to more air in the fork. Unless you're riding rampage, hucking large jumps/drops or Richie Rude none of the new forks need spacers truthfully

Seen less grease on a trailer hitch! 😳

Some weird things I saw here: release of air mega fast, a lot of grease and super tight rebound knob...i hope you can turn more than 3 clicks hehehe

Is this the 2.1 damper?

It totally made my 2020 lyrik ultimate 150mm feel "buttery" off the top and had sooo much more mid stroke support than it did before. There is definitely something going on with your set up. I even added more pressure and it felt way smoother and softer. Game changer for me on my end. Sorry to hear it's not working as it should.

I upgraded too. My fork feels so plush.. I took all the volume spaces out as didn't need em in with the new spring. Take all the spaces out and drop a small amount of air (about 10psi) and try that. Take some grease out too..

I installed mine on my revelation 130mm and couldn’t be happier. I run no volume spacers.

Holly fukken butter, hahahahaaaa, this guy went all out with the butter, that's a dimple clog for sure

circlip sharp side faces outwards, not down!

Shows how’s little some people in the comments know. People think more air pressure immediately adds up to a less supple feel. Air forks are progressive in nature, the less sag you’re running on an air spring the easier it will be to break through stiction and the more supple it’ll be off the top. If you’re running 30% sag you’re gonna be deep in the stroke and not have much of a supple feeling at all.

what about applying ow-30 oil to spring shaft, above the seal head? is this neccessary or OTT? refer p 16 www.sramconnect.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/service-manuals/rockshox/front-suspension/gen.0000000005734-service-manual-debonair-upgrade-kit.pdf

At that rate, the bike shop must be going through pounds of Sram butter every year 😂

0-30W Synthetic or mineral?

The shop did not do the upgrade correctly. The 2022 Rockshox install manual uses RS Dynamic Seal Grease and 3ml 0w-30 oil in the uppers and 10ml in the lowers. The instruction manual doesn't include globs of SRAM Butter

More butter more better, yeah until you block the transfer port. What the hell was the huge glob of grease he shoved in there all about. If this was my fork, I'd be livid.

Try zero spacers?

For 130mm take out all the tokens and dial it from there

far too much grease has been applied on that shaft assembly. I know JC is saying 'Lyrik feels great' but I guarantee that in 6 months time that excess grease will have accumulated in the vicinity of the transfer port/dimple on the internal wall of the air spring stanchion and will affect the balance of the air passage between the positive and negative chambers. Most bike shops here in the UK tell me that the first thing they observe with Rockshox forks being serviced for their first time is just how much grease the production factory uses and its detrimental impact on the air balancing.

0 spacers 😇 less grease . Oh and new skf seals

"Shaft" Samuel L. Jackson enters the chat

So I received my new air spring upgrade for my 2020 Pike Ultimate 140 that’s on my Revel Rascal at 9am, watched this video at 9:15 and installed it by 11. You are totally right about it being super stiff. I’m heavier at 230 with gear... previously I was running 120 psi with two tokens. I left the two tokens but to get 25 percent sag I had to drop air pressure to 75 psi. It feels great but I know RockShox doesn’t intend on I running 75 psi... I’m going to give it a few rides. Please keep us posted if you find a resolution to yours.

You should have had Chicklowski in the video.

@4:23 next time get only valve out 🤷🏻‍♂️

I heavily prefer the b1. The c1 is extremely harsh imo

remove tokens and add more butter

With the New 2021 Lyrik I found less tokens about 10psi higher then normal. At this time 150mm Lyrik I’m 135lbs (1) Token. 73psi (1) click HSC from fully open 1-2 clicks LSC from fully open 11 clicks rebound If I go to the bike park I’ll up the HSC to (2) click. Fork fills great. My old Lyrik I run 2-3 Tokens 50psi Only 2-3 clicks of LSC from fully closed I find with the New Lyrik I’m using the fork better for what is is intended for instead of relying on the Tokens. Hope this helps.

I think I figured it out! So the harshness you’re feeling with the pike could be from how you pressurize the fork after install. You’re not suppose to pump in like 25psi then cycle for the negative chamber. The seal head is already past the dimple for the negative chamber so it’s just a strait fill, no need to cycle. If you do cycle it can overfill the negative chamber and act harsh like you’re experiencing. Hope that helps and if not then I tried!

Way way way too much butter. Also should use the new Sram Dynamic grease, not butter for 2019+ forks

Yeah, remind me never to let this guy near my forks…ever.

Totally agree with this video. I cannot find a good tune on that C1 debonair in my Revelation. Even the SRAM rep told me he prefers the B1 generation debonair spring over the C1 and that the C1 was developed because of the complaints they were receiving from people stating they weren't utilizing the full travel advertised with the B1 debonair. ....C1 in my Lyric was good though.

Too much and the wrong kind of grease, you should be using Rockshox dynamic seal grease and 0w-30 oil. You only apply grease to the seals then oil to the shaft, you apply grease to the inside of the uppers, you don't put a glob of grease above the airspring it is supposed to get 3ml of 0w-30. "Those guys at Rockshox really know what they're doing" then perhaps you should read the service manual they put out.

Is it me or does that front tire look FAT?

That ”mechanic” but about 50 times more grease in the fork than recommended, i’m not even kidding. That thing is not going to perform as it should.

Don’t bash the mechanic too hard he did his best :-(

Nice vid. One comment - the "W" in 0W-30 actually stands for "winter", not "weight" :-)