Can The Lord of the Rings Ever be Remastered?

  Рет қаралды 113,086

Jesse Tribble

Jesse Tribble

16 күн бұрын

After several home releases, The Lord of the Rings doesn't look as good as I remember, but my memory isn't the problem.
My recommendations:
-
The Fellowship of the Ring:
1. The Fan Version.
From what I understand, the Fan Version uses the luminance of the HD Extended Edition, but is color matched to the Theatrical Edition and the Extended DVDs. I love it. I found it on 1337x.to.
2. The HD Theatrical Edition (2010)
If you don’t care about the Extended Edition, this is a great option. It has some DNR, but the colors look good.
3. The 4K (2020)
The 4Ks are fine, but out of all of them, Fellowship is the worst, because the colors are so boring.
4. The DVDs?
I don’t know, anything but the HD Extended Edition.
5. The HD Extended Edition (2011)
Abysmal.
-
The Two Towers:
1. The HD Extended Edition (2011)
The Two Towers and The Return of the King weren’t messed up, so I prefer the HD Blu-rays over the 4Ks. However, the Extended Edition of The Two Towers has a slight green tint in some scenes, compared to the Theatrical Edition, but it’s not that noticeable.
2. The 4K (2020)
Arguably, The Two Towers benefits the most from a fancy new color grade, since the original was a little flat. I love how blue the skies are in this version. Unfortunately, the DNR looks the worst. The plains of Rohan are wiped out. There are like ten different flashbacks, so the white filter bugs me. And anything that’s yellow-green is too saturated, so certain costume details look like caution-tape, and anyone with blonde hair looks like they’ve been swimming in chlorine.
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The Return of the King:
1. The HD Extended Edition (2011)
Perfect.
Although, I had audio-sync problems with The Two Towers and the Return of the King, so personally, I swapped the audio with the 4K audio.
2. The 4K (2020)
The Return of the King 4K doesn’t bother me that much. But I prefer the HD version.
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MUSIC USED:
Night Vision - Homage
Impact Moderato - Kevin MacLeod
Prologue: One Ring to Rule Them All - Howard Shore
Absolutely Nothing - Jeremy Blake
For You Blue - The Beatles
Bright Eyed Blues - Unicorn Heads
Caras Galadhon - Howard Shore
-
"Night Vision"
Instrumental by Homage
• [Free] Joey Bada$$ x O...

Пікірлер: 819
@debrickashaw9387
@debrickashaw9387 13 күн бұрын
Stuff like this is exactly why I fear physical media becoming obsolete.
@mastpg
@mastpg 11 күн бұрын
You definitely shouldn't. This is just a transition period. Within 10-15yrs, we'll be at or above even 70mm IMAX for most everything and someone will have worked out a comprehensive archiving and preservation strategy.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
​@@mastpg Some Ai nonsense will do it for all private video tapes but it won't do justice for LOTR
@mastpg
@mastpg 11 күн бұрын
@@morcjul They still have the negatives...allegedly. Seriously, we're not too far off from full, digital, 12-18K workflows for the high end stuff. Redundancy methods and strategies are top of mind for any corporate-media concern. Also, there will be a Harmy for LotR if there isn't one already. The extended editions are basically World Heritage Movies at this point. I'm sure there's at least one tape backup of the VFX files somewhere, and I'm not necessarily opposed to having some tasteful upgrading of the effects done for a cash grab.
@TroyUlysses
@TroyUlysses 11 күн бұрын
Physical Media has nothing todo with it.
@shaunsteele6926
@shaunsteele6926 11 күн бұрын
@@mastpg yeah, no. Without physical media you own nothing. At some point in the next 10-15 years someone will deem LOTR "problematic" somehow and it will be banned.
@Keyrann_au
@Keyrann_au 14 күн бұрын
Going from that brooding ending to those shitty upscaled credits made me burst out laughing. 10/10 editing mate.
@JadyLester
@JadyLester 11 күн бұрын
"So instead of a magical elf gliding through her enchanted realm, she looks like a beautiful woman in a beautiful gown on a beautiful set."
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
This is so sad!
@SicketMog
@SicketMog 12 сағат бұрын
Compare this to playing older video game systems on a CRT vs a modern TV. I personally prefer to watch craptube in 1080>higher res because otherwise it's too sharp and, ironically, grainy (with the details sticking out rather than blending). Sometimes less is more...
@Kausan1
@Kausan1 6 сағат бұрын
This is my main problem with all modern tv and movies. I'm taken out of the illusion
@charlietighe
@charlietighe 14 күн бұрын
My version has a Cerveza Cristal commercial about every half hour or so.
@beyondlimitationsvideo
@beyondlimitationsvideo 6 сағат бұрын
God damn! Good one.
@ankaris5129
@ankaris5129 8 күн бұрын
As one of the matte painters on the film, ( painted the afternoon Leaving Rivendell 14:59 and morning Entering Rivendell 15:31 ), it's painful to see such degradation - pun intended - in the colour and tones of LOTR. I had my own 'war' with PJ in regards to the colour of the sky in the 'entering Rivendell' scene. It was meant to be warm, morning light and he wanted me to paint in a bright blue sky with two puffy white clouds, just like a Simpsons sky. I refused at first but then cartoonised, like the Simpsons, the entire shot and sent it for film out to be viewed in the screening room. They were NOT happy! He ended up getting the compositors to grade the sky blue. Everyone, including Elijah Wood told him to leave it alone and he relented... halfway. I love PJ for making the films but by God he made some stupid decisions at the time!
@BlueMarsalis
@BlueMarsalis 7 күн бұрын
Thank you for your work, maybe hopefully someday we will get an official release that does not butcher it though.
@valeriacaissa4552
@valeriacaissa4552 5 күн бұрын
Thank you for the insight and your great work!
@mnomadvfx
@mnomadvfx 4 күн бұрын
This is gold. People need to see and know these things to realise that the directors of the films they love are anything but infallible gods of cinema. I can only shudder at the thought to the coming Gollum movie that I doubt even Andy Serkis can save. PJ is not the director he once was making The Frighteners and LOTR - and as you say he wasn't such hot s**t as people think even back then....
@ankaris5129
@ankaris5129 4 күн бұрын
@@mnomadvfx You think that's bad, the animators nearly went on strike over PJ's insistence that they decrease the level of realism in the Cave Troll's (FOTR) rigging, musculature, movement etc! They flipped out! Having said all that, every production has screw up's and people disagree, it's normal. And LOTR is still lightening in a bottle. I'm proud to have contributed.
@SCtester
@SCtester 4 күн бұрын
Certain shots, particularly in the Shire, have very obvious masking that paints the sky an unnaturally intense blue. It's always bothered me. So this was very interesting to read and didn't really come as a surprise. Thanks for sharing!
@mrink8822
@mrink8822 14 күн бұрын
He remembered the password
@Brangelina-mt1tw
@Brangelina-mt1tw 8 күн бұрын
Explain plz? :)
@1lengendairybdog
@1lengendairybdog 7 күн бұрын
Huh?
@DJLizardon
@DJLizardon 7 күн бұрын
​@@Brangelina-mt1tw he disappeared lol
@radim279
@radim279 7 күн бұрын
@@DJLizardon The correct form is "THE BEACONS ARE LIT! HE REMEMBERED THE PASSWORD!"
@jean3xweb
@jean3xweb 2 күн бұрын
mellon?
@peterwoodruff3324
@peterwoodruff3324 8 күн бұрын
Aragorn’s bow tapping the screen is so thing I’m strangely attached to. Seeing the “corrected” shot literally filled me with rage.
@LayneBenofsky
@LayneBenofsky 2 күн бұрын
Never go "Full Lucas" on your legacy projects.
@DisturbedFlyer7
@DisturbedFlyer7 Күн бұрын
Wait, where does Aragorn's bow tap the screen?? I've never noticed this. I still have the original theatrical on DVD from way back and the original extended box. I'm sure it is visible on there and I could go look at it.
@MajorFletch
@MajorFletch 12 күн бұрын
I always felt the film grain added to the effect of viewing an old forgotten world.
@mnomadvfx
@mnomadvfx 4 күн бұрын
That doesn't bother me so much, but it's only sensible for masking the older CG, to say nothing of preserving as much detail of the original celluloid as possible.
@BenL0253
@BenL0253 5 күн бұрын
From the bottom of my heart....thank you for making this video. I always thought there was something off about the 4k release. I am not trained in editing or colour grading so I would have never been able to figure it out. Sincerely, out of all the many LOTR KZfaq vids, yours has been most helpful for my soul. Lol thanks
@ErwanMontana
@ErwanMontana 10 күн бұрын
"What if I like to annoy people by pointing out creepy masks in the background" -- wise words, wise words my friend.
@tornadomuchacho
@tornadomuchacho 12 күн бұрын
Thank you, I knew I wasn't crazy about my DVD looking radically different from my HD and 4K editions. Thank you.
@RandomCelebs
@RandomCelebs 14 күн бұрын
Nice Touch at the end! You upscaled your "DVD" credits!
@Ahmad_Itani
@Ahmad_Itani 7 күн бұрын
😂
@dyecyde
@dyecyde 14 күн бұрын
jesse shows up like a godsend dropping the best content on youtube but just whenever he feels like it lmao.
@nathangallion7337
@nathangallion7337 12 күн бұрын
Wait - people are allowed to wait to upload on KZfaq until they have something worth saying? This could be revolutionary!
@mnomadvfx
@mnomadvfx 4 күн бұрын
@@nathangallion7337 They are, but sadly the demands of the algorithm and making a career out of running a channel demand a constant flow of content, often and regular.
@44rh1n
@44rh1n 8 сағат бұрын
Thanks for the shoutout! Glad you’ve enjoyed the HD color restoration. I agree with your analysis here 100%. All I want is the same version of LOTR that I saw in the 2000s, but in a higher resolution than a DVD. Pretty simple idea, but apparently Peter Jackson just doesn’t care to offer that, unfortunately. I was initially pretty happy when the 4K Blu-rays first released, because even though it wasn’t a 1:1 color restoration, at least the Blu-ray’s ugly green tint problem had been fixed. But after the rose-colored glasses came off, it became really obvious to me that the 4K remaster wasn’t handled nearly as well as it should have been. The digital noise reduction is especially egregious, and the fact that it has less highlight detail than the DVD is straightup absurd. Hoping that one day we’ll finally get a proper 4K restoration that preserves the original color grade.
@WreckItRolfe
@WreckItRolfe 13 күн бұрын
The silly thing about the upscaling of the Fan Club credits is that they could have easily have had a computer read it and re-write it these days.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
They didn't ever bother. Such a cheap remaster really. I hope we get the re scans one day. And some new deleted scenes separate from the extended edition
@shaunwilliams3387
@shaunwilliams3387 11 күн бұрын
@@morcjul how do you take a billion dollar franchise and not spend literally a few million on just rescanning the OG? Absolutely bewildering
@vegeta1885
@vegeta1885 10 күн бұрын
@@shaunwilliams3387 It's not the rescanning that's really expensive, is that if you can rescan it the CGI is not on the films. Which means they would have to redo all of the CGI work for 4k.
@jonevansauthor
@jonevansauthor 10 күн бұрын
@@vegeta1885 I'm not sure why he said negatives but I think he meant rescan the original film masters. Remember it wasn't distributed digitally, it was reels of film. Obviously those include the effects.
@peepiepo
@peepiepo 9 күн бұрын
@@jonevansauthor Extended editions though
@kaankaraca2001
@kaankaraca2001 10 күн бұрын
What’s weird is, from what I’ve seen, they’ve ALSO DNR’d the hell out of the Hobbit even though it was shot in 5K… because the film and the VFX were finished in 2K, they upscaled that as well, and because those films are EXTREMELY VFX heavy, the CG looks far worse than it used to and the in camera stuff also looks waxy as well. It’s horrendous-and I say this as someone who likes the Hobbit a lot. They even brightened up the Smaug sequence in the second movie for “continuity” and it baffles me-not only are the images DNR’d to hell but they’re brightened up so we can see the imperfections clearly. Like, HUH??? I’m good with the original 1080p Blu-Rays for all six movies, thanks.
@pickyphysicsstudent201
@pickyphysicsstudent201 14 күн бұрын
Grain does add value in the "Silent Hill Fog" sense. Its immersive when your mind naturally fills in the gaps. Its a weird kind of stylisation.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
Yes. Old Black & White Crime stories look more scary than modern HD Television films
@doltBmB
@doltBmB 10 күн бұрын
It's even more than that, since each frame has a different grain, that frame "sees" the image slightly differently from the one before or after it. Meaning even with little movement, a slightly different detail may be revealed. Your eyes have persistence of vision, and those details from different frames blend together, it's not dissimilar to how your eyes actually make automatic micro-movements to better distinguish objects that are still. Grain adds detail and life, by reducing the grain you reduce that too.
@luigiman425
@luigiman425 11 күн бұрын
The color grading for flashbacks is truly unforgiveable. Genuinely on par with George Lucas or James Cameron revisionism.
@Kausan1
@Kausan1 6 сағат бұрын
Yep
@CrimsionVision
@CrimsionVision 14 күн бұрын
Annoyed me too when the 4K came out with none of the bonus discs and if you wanted those then you needed to get the regular blu-ray edition, which i already own from the previous remaster.
@higginswalsan
@higginswalsan 13 күн бұрын
That’s the most ridiculous laziness I’ve ever seen and it drives me up a wall. Are they gonna do another release later with the features to milk the cash?
@garym6315
@garym6315 10 күн бұрын
And the bluray editions only have the bonus features on DVDs 😂
@vegeta1885
@vegeta1885 10 күн бұрын
The 4k's biggest fault isnt the bonus discs but the obvious A.I upscale, horribly done. They didnt rescan from film, they upscaled from 1080. They erased the film grain that is why the CGI looks more smooth and dated because the grain made it more seem like it's part of the world.
@JDoe-gf5oz
@JDoe-gf5oz 10 күн бұрын
Hate this so much. I have multiple versions of Highlander 2 because they not only kept reimagining the movie but there are documentaries and commentaries unique to each disc. It's ridiculous.
@samuelgeaney7556
@samuelgeaney7556 8 күн бұрын
​@@vegeta1885 dunno what you're on about because the 4K's look incredible
@jmwilliams88
@jmwilliams88 14 күн бұрын
Finally watched the 4k remastered versions of Lord of the Rings. Definitely a mixed bag. They took full advantage of the HDR for the colors to pop (shots of fire, lava, the green at Minas Morgul) but at times it seemed to artificially colorful, compared to what I remembered. The high saturation also caused some unintended colors to show up such as Theoden's blonde beard turning green. A few other shots that stood out like sore thumbs: an extended edition shot of the corsair ships in the bay (the colors were cartoonishly oversaturated) and some extreme DNR on Theoden's face after the warg fight in the Two Towers. Even my partner noticed the waxy face then and he usually isn't looking out for that kind of thing. And yes, the flashbacks with the desaturation and iMovie-level vignette effect are probably the worst offenders. At the end of the day, though, the cosmetic changes may be distracting but they can't ruin the storytelling of these amazing films.
@Echo-Head
@Echo-Head 13 күн бұрын
The DNR in the warg fight scene has always been there, it's always had this ugly smeary temporal DNR baked into it, it's just now they added even more DNR to stupidly try and remove the artifacts of that baked in DNR, instead of just leaving it alone.
@Initialgs
@Initialgs 8 күн бұрын
Theodens beard did originally have a green tinge.
@Kjeleman
@Kjeleman Күн бұрын
Sounds like your TV needs some calibration
@vicepresidentblankets1554
@vicepresidentblankets1554 14 күн бұрын
I finished the trilogy today for the first time.... U couldn't have timed thid vid vetter, thnx so much 😭
@pakuma3
@pakuma3 10 күн бұрын
I hoped you loved it, if you did, make sure you watch the extended editions
@vsoestharm
@vsoestharm 10 күн бұрын
@@pakuma3this
@shoff29
@shoff29 12 күн бұрын
I'm really bummed they didn't do a full rescan... hopefully one day. I would love that higher resolution, but maintained film grain. would truly be perfect.
@fostena
@fostena 7 күн бұрын
A full rescan I think would mean redo every CGI shot from scratch. Might as well reshot the entire movie. Or you mean a rescan of the cinema film reels?
@MrMonkeybat
@MrMonkeybat 7 күн бұрын
@@fostena If they still have the original scene files they would re render a lot quicker on modern computers
@fostena
@fostena 7 күн бұрын
@@MrMonkeybat you expect that a project file for a 2001 CGI editor would be compatible with modern systems? 😆 Anyway, they probably haven't kept the assets, why would they?
@Whiztlex
@Whiztlex 7 күн бұрын
​@@fostenaWon't be long until we can feed the movie to an AI and tell it to, not rescan or upscale but basically recreate the entire movie. In better quality, with better audio and blooper fixes like Eomer's sword falling out
@MrMonkeybat
@MrMonkeybat 7 күн бұрын
@@fostena When they rereleased Toy Story they ran the old software at a higher resolution. Rendered on a single workstation faster than the runtime.
@jackpayne1861
@jackpayne1861 12 күн бұрын
beautiful ending. reminds me of the story of the Warner Bros producers having truck loads of silent era film reels thrown off the Santa Monica pier to make room in their archives for the talkies. Film remains an ephemeral, fading art form we can’t seem to capture in its place. Even if a film is saved from a toss off a pier, every format we have degrades and decays in time. In many ways, it’s our most living, human expression. It’s our mirror, even in its mortality.
@plica06
@plica06 12 күн бұрын
The original formats that LOTR were released on have not degraded and decayed... it's just that newer higher resolution formats have come along so the original LOTR "prints" do not look as sharp and hi-res by comparison. The point of this video is that leaving movies as they were might be better than tinkering with them to re-issue them in higher res versions as a money making exercise.
@jackpayne1861
@jackpayne1861 12 күн бұрын
@@plica06 true enough, i suppose my comment was adjacent to the topic of the video. but if we’re talking about the nature of film preservation for one movie (or three), then we’re talking about all film preservation in a sense. And a lossless, time-proof media storage format does not currently exist. film decays, as do digital files. even on 35, there’s generative loss with each new print. my point was that, ultimately, film does have a limited lifespan sort of no matter what. i think that’s kind of sad, but also beautiful.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
​@@jackpayne1861 One day, they will rescan the original film, otherwise there's no point in keeping them. Might not be soon however. Maybe we need to wait a couple more decades
@MarcAndreBelleau
@MarcAndreBelleau 14 күн бұрын
I love that I had to go through this since 97 with Star Wars and now, a new generation of fan of another franchise will do too!
@walterquick5829
@walterquick5829 12 күн бұрын
Nah lmfao not even fucking close.
@MarcAndreBelleau
@MarcAndreBelleau 12 күн бұрын
@@walterquick5829 Ok I mean, George was a SPECIAL case. Peter is not THAT far gone. Yet!
@MoldyMojoMonkey
@MoldyMojoMonkey 9 күн бұрын
​@@MarcAndreBelleau the fact that they even seriously contemplated putting Martin Freeman in the prologue gives me anxiety for future releases.
@Assimandeli
@Assimandeli 9 күн бұрын
@@MoldyMojoMonkey I wish they edited Martin Freeman out of the Hobbit.
@MarcAndreBelleau
@MarcAndreBelleau 9 күн бұрын
@@MoldyMojoMonkey The fact that they ALREADY changed a little person into Frodo is ALREADY not reassuring. That's the slippery slope and it'll only get more Lucas from there.
@elmidi
@elmidi 13 күн бұрын
Masterful work, my good sir. The upscaled credits at the end were the cherry on top
@SCtester
@SCtester 4 күн бұрын
This is perfect, and verbalizes my feelings about the various releases better than I ever could have. Thanks for making it.
@PrettyTigerlilly
@PrettyTigerlilly 14 күн бұрын
Nice to see you back, Jesse. Your videos are some of my favorites.
@Theomite
@Theomite 13 күн бұрын
I always fucking KNEW the green tint in the Blu-ray set was bullshit. It did NOT look like that in theaters. And yes, it CAN be remastered. It just WON'T for the reasons you mentioned. Nobody wants to pay $10M (I guess) to do it all from scratch.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
Yes it would be expensive as fuck. And might even run into severe technical issues, let's say their old color grade and vfx software doesn't support such high resolution edits and crashes
@Theomite
@Theomite 11 күн бұрын
@@morcjul Never mind the fact that the series is worth 20X the cost in a full release, no, we'll forgo dollars to save pennies. Also, if you stick with the negatives and use the original VFX as reference, newer VFX software can probably recreate them at new resolutions.
@Brangelina-mt1tw
@Brangelina-mt1tw 8 күн бұрын
Right?? This is so vindicating
@Stevieboy38
@Stevieboy38 7 күн бұрын
Honestly the LOTR is such a hugely popular franchise that they could remaster it at the $10M cost and release the remasters box office / cinemas etc and their 10M would be blown out of the water by the money taken in from that.
@BubbleMix-96
@BubbleMix-96 7 күн бұрын
it would be way more expensive than that
@korahwalla499
@korahwalla499 13 күн бұрын
Amazing video, Jesse Tribble, thank you for making it!
@karlwest437
@karlwest437 6 күн бұрын
These movies are classics and made billions, but it's too expensive to rescan the original negatives? Hollywood is so cheap!
@leonardofernandez6488
@leonardofernandez6488 14 күн бұрын
You are back. I have missed you.
@jbrnsek
@jbrnsek 13 күн бұрын
Great video sir. Hope you upload more of them :D
@ternura727
@ternura727 14 күн бұрын
I've been watching and rewatching your House videos over and over again....and now this? this is christmas.
@AlvarCreations
@AlvarCreations 12 күн бұрын
Now this is high effort content, great work
@KruDeExotic
@KruDeExotic 14 күн бұрын
Love the video, missed you dude
@seangrezel7913
@seangrezel7913 14 күн бұрын
LMAO, I was just rewatching your videos and was wondering if you would make another video. Glad you're back Jesse.
@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319
@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 10 күн бұрын
This is genuinely why there are many older films in my collection that I love that I'll PURPOSEFULLY never upgrade. Among these are the six OG crew Star Trek films (all on DVD), the 1995 Ghost in the Shell (on DVD), The Tuskegee Airmen (on DVD), the OG Star Wars trilogy (which I have on VHS before Lucas "perfected" them), and, of course, The Lord of the Rings trilogy (on DVD) among many others. Sometimes, when films are translated to more modern resolutions that the original creatives never accounted for, not only do the films loose something in the presentation during transference with the loss of celluloid's imperfections and visual noise. It looses character. To parrot your essay, "I like film grain". Then, once again, as you pointed out, shortcomings that otherwise would have gone unnoticed like being able to see an actor's face through the prosthetics in the 90's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or the black filler paper and cardboard on the bridge of the Enterprise in ST: The Next Generation, suddenly take center stage and it sours the experience. What really bothers me about this however is the fact that with today's level of technological progress, these are all issues that could be scrubbed during the upscale process given the time and the extra funding. These are things that FANS do on their personal computers at HOME and upload to KZfaq all the time (which you touched on with the de-specialized fan edits of SW). But unfortunately, studios are far more interested in their bottom lines than they are about proper film preservation. And because of that, 90% of the 4K and beyond upscale/remasters that we get commercially will always be sub-par when they don't have to be.
@Tom-qo4mz
@Tom-qo4mz 2 күн бұрын
What’s the issue with the HD releases of GitS that prevents you from wanting to upgrade?
@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319
@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 2 күн бұрын
@@Tom-qo4mz Outside of the fact that I like the visual grit of it and don't want it cleaned up too much, the special edition packaging that I have for the DVD is also much more involved and of better quality than the packaging for most newer releases of the film.
@Tom-qo4mz
@Tom-qo4mz Күн бұрын
@@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 I was gonna say, outside of some minor issues on some (but not all) of the releases being subject to slight variations in contrast/colour/brightness, window boxed presentation, sound (iirc some missing a sound effect of a water melon exploding in the chase scene, and ofc variation between the original ending song and the international version’s ending song) or choice of translation for the subs, afaik there’s no genuinely egregious offences that would warrant holding off on upgrading, so to deny yourself the opportunity to enjoy the best cyberpunk cityscapes ever put to a film with all the detail and colour accuracy that HD brings seems an odd choice to me to say the least. If you’re happy with DVD though, that’s what matters I guess. Re: packaging check out the German A/B sets I’ve been tempted to pick up them for the packaging alone!
@Kausan1
@Kausan1 6 сағат бұрын
You better make incremental copies. Those DVDs don't last forever
@guyr3618
@guyr3618 10 күн бұрын
Maybe one day the criterion will get to make a Lord of the Rings remaster, without PJ's involvement... They usually prioritize loyalty to the original in their remasters.
@justbychris
@justbychris 7 күн бұрын
*I did not expect this high quality analysis of my favorite films ever. You did an outstanding work here, loved it!
@MateSimon-ll8mo
@MateSimon-ll8mo 4 күн бұрын
This was the best and most well made video ive seen for weeks. Very good job! Thank you!
@emperorjames
@emperorjames 7 күн бұрын
Great video - thank you for making it and the sharp eye! ✨
@n2darkness
@n2darkness 13 күн бұрын
I agree with everything you have said 1000%! Maybe someday we will get that remaster and some additional bonus footage.
@abhokie1
@abhokie1 9 күн бұрын
This was one of the best analysis videos I've ever seen. Well done.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
This video is an Eye Opener, make no mistake! I came into it already knowing about the green tint, messy DNR and artificial look of the VFX. But while I assumed it to be technical bugs, you make clear that remastering itself is a dilemma between going with time, and losing the original spirit. I am so proud to still own my normal 2K Blu Rays. Because to me, it's currently the best balance between going with time, and being authentic.
@Pocketkid2
@Pocketkid2 12 күн бұрын
This is a technically excellent video! Please make more videos like this about troubled home video histories!
@cinemaguerrilla
@cinemaguerrilla 12 күн бұрын
yea thank you for documenting this, this is tragic, i started crying at 11:00
@oscarstainton
@oscarstainton 13 күн бұрын
Maybe somewhere down the line we'll get a new anniversary release that isn't just an upscale or compromised by studio greed, but faithfully scans the original film negatives and preserves film grain and the soft, fairy-tale look. Hard to say how the CGI will look, but I doubt it would be worse than trying to "modernize" the look of the films. And BOY do those desaturated flashbacks suck. (Also, I believe the only new release material for The Hobbit films should be the M4 Cuts on 4K or the trimmed Chris Hartwell fan edits that remove so much of the crap we all hate.) Edit: But, dude, did you really have to end it on such a bitter note?? You're still alive and talking about the subject, with your audience engaging with it and some with their own nostalgic experiences. That's better than the potential net zero of people who still don't learn about these sorts of things.
@YuutaShinjou113
@YuutaShinjou113 5 күн бұрын
not entirely possible especially in this world full of hate and greed
@oscarstainton
@oscarstainton 2 күн бұрын
@@YuutaShinjou113 That's all the more reason not to give in those evil things and to be a bulwark against them in one's own way.
@HarmlessKiwi
@HarmlessKiwi 10 күн бұрын
As someone who has watched the Extended Editions pretty much every year since they released, I have just gone and found REMUX versions of the original HD theatricals... alongside NVIDIA RTX VSR upscaling and RTX HDR + watching on an OLED... I think I just had a bloody religious experience. Can't wait to watch TTT and ROTK!
@adama5000
@adama5000 9 күн бұрын
Thank you, videos like yours are literally saving my dwindling hope for KZfaq.
@i_Frankenstein
@i_Frankenstein 14 күн бұрын
Yooooo!! You are back!!!
@mistrkill
@mistrkill 13 күн бұрын
Your videos are very good bro, keep posting if you can. Loved your Dr House vids
@mistrkill
@mistrkill 13 күн бұрын
Still love them btw
@markvandermolen7181
@markvandermolen7181 7 күн бұрын
Amazing video. Thanks for opening my eyes.
@tadhgbrady
@tadhgbrady 23 сағат бұрын
lol the warped credits at the end was the icing on the cake. Great video essay!
@shaneramjutton8669
@shaneramjutton8669 7 күн бұрын
Fantastic Video. I just felt something was different but I couldn't tell because I never watched the Theatrical HD and the DVD is just so long ago.
@denizzagra6423
@denizzagra6423 4 сағат бұрын
Great video! I would just like to add a few things. I am pretty sure they actually went back to the film vault and scanned the original negatives. Dı back in the day was one at 2K, a bit higher res than HD. A true 4k remaster requires them to scan the original camera negative from scratch, making a new 4K digital master. Most big budget blockbusters in the 2000s were using the digital intermediate process. In the old days, you had to achieve the best result you can on camera, because you could only do so much when printing the film photochemically: you could control the brightness, cyan, magenta, and yellow. Not much else. Of course, cinematographers came upon with very clever processes to achieve different results. However, you were mostly stuck to what you got. There was no "let's make that tiny blue object in the corner of the frame yellow". Any adjustments you made diffused into other parts of the image, so you could only control the general tone of the shot. This process might sound limiting to us, but timing can be very effective if you had a good timer. You could make the whole movie look completely different. Anyways, with the digital intermediate process, the whole "color timing" process could be skipped in favor of color grading digitally. You could essentially do anything you want and, when done, laser record back onto film. Movies like LotR abused this process to its limits, just type "peter jackson digital intermediate" and you'll see how much of a difference there was between the captured footage and the final image. While this process is a great tool during the actual filmmaking. It might not be great when doing a remaster 20 years later. This means that they had to do the color grading from scratch when doing the 4K remaster. Unless the grading metadata from 2001 was still in some hard drive, they had no way of exactly copying the same result as the theatrical edition. Remember color is subjective and one's perception of color, changes aggressively even in the span of a day, not to mention the opinions of the director. An alternative decision could have been to scan the color internegatives (these are the printouts after DI) and overlay the color information of that onto the new 4L original camera negative scans. The issue with graininess comes from the mindset of the time. Kodak really improved the fidelity of their stocks in the early 2000s. The Kodak film line from the 90s were called EXR, which stand for expression. Starting with 1997, Kodak introduced their Vision line which had reduced grain, higher sharpness, more highlight and shadow detail, and exposure latitude. However the stocks were still a bit biased for color saturation. particularly the first generation of 500T was very saturated and contrasty, especially in the reds. The upcoming Vision 2 line completely upped photochemical imaging to a new level with remarkably reduced grain, amazing compatibility, and unrivaled sharpness. LotR came out in a time when these new stock were deemed to be too sharp, too modern, too "life-like". Directors and cinematographers tried to introduce grain, and "character back into the image using different methods. In case of LotR, they decided to use the older EXR stocks for most of the movie. They are great stocks but with coarser grain and a bit more softness. They also didn't want the look of the film to be too sharp, so they used special filters that reduced the sharpness of the images while softening fine detail. Most of the blooming effect you speak of comes from these filters. Lastly, LotR used the Super35 method to achieve a 2.39 aspect ratio which means that they exposed the negative using spherical lenses and got a negative that had an aspect ratio of 1.33. During editing, they chopped off the top and the bottom of the image to get a 2.39 aspect ratio. While this process improved immensely in the span of just a few years (to see the difference just compare Gladiator (2000) and PotC: Prisoner of Azkaban (2004)) thanks to finer grained stocks, it still means enlarging a small image, thereby enlarging the grain structure. fun fact: If you ever had your picture taken on film and had a chance to look at the negative. You'll notice that the image is 8 perforations long. After cropping, the negative of LotR is only 2.3 perforations long. Which means your photo negative is almost 4 times bigger!
@bigmoviefreak
@bigmoviefreak 12 күн бұрын
Brilliant! You have my like, and my subscription!
@LarsGoldbachDP
@LarsGoldbachDP 12 сағат бұрын
You're presentation is phenomenal!!!!!!
@ansond88
@ansond88 9 күн бұрын
I only recently(~18 months ago) saw all the extended editions for the first time. I had just always had the theatrical dvds so 🤷🏻‍♂️ but, I could tell something was off immediately. I really felt this video, thank you for it
@philosophyetc
@philosophyetc 5 күн бұрын
All I want for Christmas is a Criterion Collection 4K remaster of the entire trilogy
@You2Too
@You2Too 4 күн бұрын
Hi! I was directed here by a friend, namely Dwalin who is one of the guys behind the two most common preservation projects for FOTR. (Fellowship of the Ring) First of all: HUGE thanks for making more people aware of this. It's a nightmare. While I only saw FOTR on DVD back then, I saw TTT and ROTK in the cinema on 35mm film. And unlike many, I pay notice to things like colors in quite high detail. I have a clear memory of the color of the battle at Helm's Deep, as well as the battle at Minas Tirith. They looked very close to the way they're presented on the extended blu-rays. And while you don't like the Hobbit trilogy, and yes, I agree they shouldn't be "bridged" to LOTR, the whole parts with Frodo and old Bilbo shouldn't have been there either since they assume whoever is watching has already seen the LOTR trilogy which they consider this one bridging into... (?) Anyway, I saw the first Hobbit movie in the theater and tried hard to remember the colors, and indeed, it had a green blanket tint both there and on blu-ray. But we're here for LOTR now! I was among the first to present a way to battle the green tint when the FOTR extended blu-ray was released. Sadly, it had more problems than just a green tint. Colors that were actually green in the original had been darkened, and that's just one example. There was simply no way to make it look like the original colors without doing what 44rh1n and Dwalin did. Anyway, some facts that are not presented here are: The HDTV broadcasts of all three movies in their theatrical versions, before their release on blu-ray, had all the dirt and grain intact. The theatrical blu-rays had DNR on all three, completely unnecessary in TTT and ROTK if you ask me. I understand if they wanted to clean up FOTR since it had lots of dirt spots and flares and things appearing all the time, but they also scrubbed away the grain along with it, and it could've been cleaned from dirt while still preserving the grain instead. Now, like most, I prefer the extended editions. I was horrified when I saw FOTR on blu-ray for the first time and ended up watching the good old DVD instead. The other two are true to the DVD releases. The reason people think the colors changed in TTT and ROTK in the first extended blu-ray releases was the color space conversion. Convert the DVDs' color spaces to Rec709 and they look the same as the blu-rays, except FOTR of course. There are a few more facts that are missing in this video and I'll list them: The 1080p blu-rays of the 2020 "remaster" of ALL THREE actually have more detail and grain in it than the 4K versions! The 4K versions are upscaled, DNR'd versions of the new 1080p versions which is insane. Here are some good comparisons from each on caps-a-holic: FOTR: caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=15006&d2=17668&s1=156523&s2=198551&i=13&l=0 TTT: caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=15008&d2=17673&s1=156546&s2=198561&i=6&l=0 ROTK: caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=15009&d2=17674&s1=156561&s2=198576&i=5&l=0 Mouseover is the 1080p blu-ray of the 2020 "remaster". The master has grain preserved and is the same master they used for the first extended blu-ray, just color tweaked to oblivion once again instead of going back to the negatives to faithfully restore the original, and more "fixes" than anyone can count, like closeup shots where they've removed a pimple on Frodo's face or "fixing" the visible hobbit feet in one shot where Frodo falls on the mountain and drops the ring, where Boromir picks it up. (The "fixes" are some findings of Dwalin) There's another thing with the first FOTR extended remaster: Aliasing. It's there all the time but only truly visible when there are thin dark objects against a bright background, like in this shot, mouseover is the 2020 "remaster": caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=5240&d2=17668&s1=48914&s2=198533&i=2&l=0 Look at the thinnest branches of the trees against the bright background. Another thing in the first FOTR extended remaster is some shots are oversharpened on top of the aliasing, like the closeups of Aragorn telling Frodo he would've followed him to the fires of Mordor. Another huge fact is about The Two Towers. It was DNR'd already in the CINEMATIC TEASERS! Which means that it's the one of the trilogy that would benefit the most from going back to the camera negatives. Watch the original teaser shots of Frodo and Sam walking in the bog and then watch all blu-ray versions. Another time when it's very visible is when "Gimli falls behind", the running scenes of Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, especially when they run into the sunset you can see trails of them left behind from the previous frame. This is applied to the entire film, it was on the 35mm prints and like I said, even in the teasers so it was done very, very early in production. Either way, my preferred versions remain the fan version(s) of FOTR as well as the first release of the other two extended versions on blu-ray. I won't get started on George Lucas but Peter Jackson has pretty much turned into him. James Cameron is bad too, not as bad but close. What hit me the hardest about the disrespect for the original colors of FOTR the first time I saw the first extended remaster was that I used to watch ALL the documentaries included with the extended DVD boxes and I knew that they paid huge respect to Tolkien's descriptions of colors of everything. Now they just threw all that work in the garbage bin as if it meant nothing. I had so much respect for everyone working on the movies back then when realizing how close to an infinite amount of work was put into it all. Now I hope "Peter Lucas" never touches them again but that a proper restoration will happen one day, but sadly, the vast majority won't care, they're blinded by all the "HDR 4K ULTRA HD blah blah"... I can't count how many movies have been oversaturated in 4K just to make people think everything looked like that originally when in reality the DCI-P3 colorspace should be used only to be able to capture all colors/hues a 35mm film can hold, which Rec709 can't. It's supposed to look more realistic since every film could, in theory, be presented the way they originally looked but oversaturation wins the audiences. And I have nothing against high saturation on new works by filmmakers where it's the intent. PS. The Hobbit trilogy's new "remasters" also have more detail in their 1080p versions and the 4K versions are upscales of those. For the record, they should only have removed the blanket tints then stayed away from the colors but they messed them up badly. The originals look like they did in the theaters, like I said earlier, the first one had a green blanket tint even there and I've ever heard a rumor that it's the reason FOTR extended also got it, to "make it look closer to the Hobbit" which doesn't make any sense either since the Hobbit didn't suffer from dark greens or aliasing as far as I know. Thanks again for the video and I hope these facts are useful. And thanks for not accepting the fact that they ruin our favorite movies by doing this. I remember when The Terminator remaster was released and one guy on a certain forum where I was very active argued that the cyan blanket tint was "the original look and it's there because they could now scan it properly"... Just now, James Cameron did it again with The Abyss and Titanic before it. No cyan in Titanic but green and altered all the way beneath it. I think the Indiana Jones trilogy is an example of a few done right? I doubt we'll ever see LOTR treated like that. They can make money anyway and that's all some of them care about.
@florpodesta561
@florpodesta561 3 күн бұрын
Pleaaaaseeee, Where or how do you get the fan version? And what about the extended versions in DVD? I have these
@miklos.
@miklos. 11 күн бұрын
Okay I don't romanticize the original versions as much but I'm really just a layman here.... but that horrible text making an appearance for your own credits is brilliant. Great video!
@CormacTunstead
@CormacTunstead 5 күн бұрын
Me & a friend have a theory that they'll release another addition with added deleted scenes & a possible remaster... There are interview clips of PJ jokingly phrasing that he'll release an ULTIMATE FAN edition for the 25 year anniversary with the missing content. Given that we now have a new PJ / Andy Serkis film in the works coming out in 2026, this make a lot of sense to cash in with those member-berries along with the new LOTR: Hunt For Gollum film... 🤔
@clipshot8826
@clipshot8826 14 күн бұрын
BRO WHERE WERE YOU?! your videos are some of the best on youtube please dont leave us hanging like that man
@kimian6779
@kimian6779 14 күн бұрын
Thisss
@Frozen_Death_Knight
@Frozen_Death_Knight 7 күн бұрын
That end credits joke was hilariously on point. XD Also, completely agreed about the removal of film grain. As a painter I have to deliberately add grain in sometimes to add a certain feeling to the composition. Having grain is not a flaw, just an artistic choice. It's just odd removing it, especially when it is an excellent way of blending imperfections in the image like in those examples.
@knoxgibsonthe
@knoxgibsonthe 7 күн бұрын
This is a great video and makes me sad. Thanks for this, sir 😢
@thomascarroll5750
@thomascarroll5750 14 күн бұрын
That was good man, I liked it
@PeopleRStrange6
@PeopleRStrange6 11 күн бұрын
Such a great video, putting into words my feelings with the remasters.
@Jacob011
@Jacob011 3 күн бұрын
Brilliant observations, I wish you would make your version and I'd watch it.
@dariuszupan8145
@dariuszupan8145 14 күн бұрын
I see jesse I click
@DRAPION54
@DRAPION54 13 күн бұрын
What nice surprise this upload was
@Ozymandias1
@Ozymandias1 10 сағат бұрын
It makes me glad I'm older than you and saw the movies in the threatre several times at the original threatrical run and even went to a marathon of the extended editions (which is the longest time I have ever (and will ever) spent in a movie theatre in my life). 🤩
@anthonypape-calabrese1128
@anthonypape-calabrese1128 4 күн бұрын
I remember the main aesthetic disappointment I noted when I saw the Hobbit part 1 in a theater was the uncanny visual crispness and colorful saturation. Since I thought of The Hobbit as an older fairytale backstory in relation to the more mature trilogy set a generation later, I imagined a MORE soft, vintage feel. But the 48 fps 3D movies arrived with none of the hazy blooming atmosphere that textured the LOTR films. And now I'm realizing the lack of film grain, in addition to the high frame rate and impossible CGI camera moves associated with video gaming, made it all feel like the most finely polished digital turd. Not a bit of nostalgia was conjured.
@Echo-Head
@Echo-Head 13 күн бұрын
Aside from the DNR the only thing I found super annoying was what they did to the flashbacks. On the whole I prefer watching the 4K versions whenever I want to watch the trilogy, but they were so close to making them almost perfect but they fumbled it over the dumbest things.
@benderbendingrodriguez420
@benderbendingrodriguez420 9 күн бұрын
Still learning new things about the trilogy over 23 years later, that's the power of great filmaking
@cafeapaka7501
@cafeapaka7501 5 күн бұрын
Holy Crabs I did not notice these details - gotta love the niche programming in KZfaq- great work here
@abdullah-_-.
@abdullah-_-. 14 күн бұрын
he's back!!
@FAYZER0
@FAYZER0 4 күн бұрын
Good observation about the flashback continuity. Unfortunately, like something out of Lovecraft, it will be the knowledge that will drive me to abandon reason for madness!
@IndyAdvant
@IndyAdvant Күн бұрын
This is such an important video. Way bigger than just LOTR
@TsukiumisGuy
@TsukiumisGuy 22 сағат бұрын
Tanks for posting this . I always thought it was me.
@theyoloer3899
@theyoloer3899 10 күн бұрын
Hey there! Literally like 4 mins into this video writing this comment but the struggle to define what the ‘artistic intent’ is or was very real. Everyone has different perspectives and preferences for what preserving the intent of the original piece of art means depending on what their experience with it was. This is such a cool video and I’m doing a thesis project right now that tries to tackle the challenges of preservation of artistic intent in remastering from SDR content to HDR and visa versa. Very challenging stuff and a very cool vid!!!
@zralokvemigraci
@zralokvemigraci 11 күн бұрын
I've just been to a marathon of the extended editions and the beginning of your video explained to me why something I've always thought was white was suddenly green, so thank you, my memory is not so bad after all :D
@reboxtherapy
@reboxtherapy 5 сағат бұрын
I want a remake of the entire 6 movies starting from The Hobbit. I don't like Ian McKellen being old in the hobbit films.
@watmun
@watmun 3 күн бұрын
Great video!! I think the stuff about dnr is very interesting. If you look at the recently remastered "let it be" movie, which used a light touch of the dnr and upscaling software, it looks really good and personally casts a much better medium.
@MegaMetallicaMASTER
@MegaMetallicaMASTER 2 күн бұрын
I recommend watching the theatricals again. I recently did, and it was an amazing lesson in editing. Fellowship flew by and the pacing was incredible, it really felt like an action film. It was a fun little experiment.
@kvazimozi_EN
@kvazimozi_EN 12 күн бұрын
Devil is in the details and I liked that you've put attention to it, very spot on! FHD is still pretty good, just sit a bit more further or use a smaller a tv lol. This 4K HDR thing, if it would be all in for the technologically inspired visual improvement, I'd love it, but as you've framed it perfectly: it's all about the them NZDs lol
@kyles7087
@kyles7087 11 күн бұрын
Been on this train for years, and so so happy the fans out there put so much effort into preserving the original films, but I do hope we get an authentic restoration someday to the original presentation.
@urbanspaceman1
@urbanspaceman1 10 күн бұрын
Amazing work
@connorcrowmusic
@connorcrowmusic 8 сағат бұрын
Thank you SO much for this video! It drives me up the wall that such great movies are so badly butchered in re-releases, and then nobody notices since that's all the studios let you buy! Not just LotR, tons of famous movies have been messed with in various ways over the years they've been on home video, especially those that are "older" and famous. If you think you're remembering something wrong from a film you love after rewatching it, chances are you aren't! And to anyone reading this comment, remember: there's nothing ethically wrong with watching a movie through less legitimate means if you can't watch the original legitimately. Don't let corporations rewrite art!
@Brangelina-mt1tw
@Brangelina-mt1tw 8 күн бұрын
Learned a ton from this, thank you! It always bums me out when things are made to look "new" and perfect - I feel like it always just looks sterilized and less real.
@tiamzy
@tiamzy 14 күн бұрын
Just in time for the 4K release of the trilogy in US theaters next month! I never knew about the extent of the changes they made in the 4K version especially swapping the stunt double with a CGI’d Elijah Wood! But the biggest offender for me really are the flashbacks. Arwen’s flashforward scene in TTT is far more better in its original bluish gloom color grading in the original than the black and white version in 4K. Sadly, the next time we will get a remaster is probably on the anticipated 25th anniversary release or maybe when 8K content is the norm.
@Wha2les
@Wha2les 7 күн бұрын
Speaking of the release of the 4k in theaters, it is a mix bag. sound is better. some of the images are better, but some of the digital changes are worse... Would you still pay the 50 dollars to see all 3 films in theater though? I honestly don't remember the theater version back in the 2000s.
@Eckster
@Eckster 10 күн бұрын
Holy crap, why has no one else pointed any of this out? Everyone online is drinking the Kool-Aid that it's a 4k rescan of the films. Luckily I actually prefer the theatrical cuts, so I guess I'll stick with the 1080p theatrical BluRays
@aidanwotherspoon905
@aidanwotherspoon905 9 күн бұрын
I’m kinda glad that over the years I have been drawn more and more towards the source material. The box set of the film trilogy we bought in 2005 stays at my parents house and we’ll watch them at Christmas, but I read the books every year, and often I’ll listen to a few chapters of the Andy Serkis Audiobook for fun on occasion, but then when we return to the movies (which were my original introduction to Middle Earth) nowadays I think “oh, I forgot the movies changed that part!”
@ejem472
@ejem472 14 күн бұрын
THE RETURN OF THE KING
@crunchie101
@crunchie101 13 күн бұрын
Contraversially, I actually like the grade on the EE of Fellowship. It's a shame about the crushed shadows and the dim highlights, but more often than not, I really like the colours. Plus, it's still the best version of that film overall - the Theatrical blu ray and the 4k blu ray have DNR, but the EE blu ray is clean and full of lovely grain.
@morcjul
@morcjul 11 күн бұрын
This! I'm so used to my green tint EE BD, it has become the norm. I take it over the current 4K DNR any day. I have the latest Lightroom but never Ai Noise reduce my photographs
@Accountnamehere1968
@Accountnamehere1968 5 күн бұрын
I have yet to see the version with the green tint, but with what I've seen, my main issue derives from every shot being tinted the exact same way. It's not like some scenes are more tinted than others.
@CarterGray1
@CarterGray1 2 сағат бұрын
Those end credits of yours gave me a good laugh
@skies3964
@skies3964 9 күн бұрын
You should make more videos, you are really talented.
@Running4Daze
@Running4Daze 5 күн бұрын
So glad to view this video essay. When I first watched the “upgraded” versions of lord of the rings I thought am I missing somethin, is my vision going bad or is my tv not working properly?? No, it was just choices made by the creators n editors. Just shows u how rare rare rare the making of the original release of those films, especially the first film. I doubt we will ever see that kind of filmmaking again in our lifetime.
@HudzunDunDunDun
@HudzunDunDunDun 6 күн бұрын
always great to see more jesse
@MyFireVideos
@MyFireVideos 11 күн бұрын
Bummer. Great video though! I worked at the theater when these came out and I saw all of them many times on 35mm.
@zelbarnap
@zelbarnap 3 күн бұрын
its like this in music a well. as I have albums that I have loved and listened to remasters to find the flattening out of dynamics and downing of certain frequencies the made it memorable to me.
@valeriacaissa4552
@valeriacaissa4552 5 күн бұрын
Hollywood really needs to stop tinting all movies and series. It's a plague for roughly two decades now that got worse and worse. New Alien has the same issue of tinting the picture. It's like movie makers forgot that light is white and that not every part of a frame needs to be single-toned (especially blue-green).
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