Jim Cornette on Why Lou Thesz Never Dropped The NWA World Championship To Verne Gagne

Рет қаралды 48,517

Күн бұрын

From Episode 286 of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Guest Artist: Maurice Freeman (FreeMAN) ( / free_mangoberry )
Send in your question for the Drive-Thru to: CornyDriveThru@gmail.com
Follow Jim and Brian on Twitter: @TheJimCornette @GreatBrianLast
Join Jim Cornette's College Of Wrestling Knowledge on Patreon to access the archives & more! / cornette
Visit Jim's official site at www.JimCornette.com for merch, live dates, commentaries and more!
You can listen to Brian each week on the 6:05 Superpodcast at 605pod.com.

Пікірлер: 148

@dominushydra Жыл бұрын

"I'm Greg Gagne and I'M IN A RAGE! I want Brody and I want him in a cage!" Jim: 🤦

@MyNameIsUnavailable 2 ай бұрын

I knew all the words since 1986 😂 still do

@GraemeCree 20 күн бұрын

Good guess, but nothing to do with the video. You can go back to sleep now.

@King4sshole89 Жыл бұрын

I love a good history lesson from Cornette and Last.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

Served multiple purposes it let Verne start promoting on his own and amicably split with the NWA so that the NWA could escape a monopoly lawsuit, etc.

@Mr.Majestic77 Жыл бұрын

Great analogy.

@optobob Жыл бұрын

Absolutely correct.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@optobob Hell I seem to remember that the AWA and NWA split was so amicable and friendly that Verne was still on their voting board for who the champion would be, who the industry would blacklist, etc still.

@insupportofjunhado Жыл бұрын

NWA: Why do you keep refusing to put over our champions? Lou Thesz: Because they can't beat me! Find some real wrestlers! NWA: But most of those can't beat you either. Lou Thesz: Find me someone who can at least plausibly do it!

@WorldCupWillie Жыл бұрын

Lou Thesz vs Verne Gagne. Back when you could sport a comb over and still be a bad ass. Edit. To be fair, the comb over were later than 1952.

@bigmike2464 Жыл бұрын

Helps when they could turn you into a human pretzel if you tried talking shit to them; both were legit

@chrisbutler1668 Жыл бұрын

@@brendandenamadrai5353 Comb overs were never in style...they were a last resort for desperate men before it was acceptable for grown men to wear baseball caps.

@ryanjacobson2508 Жыл бұрын

@@chrisbutler1668 Going full bald was uncommon before the 90's. But in the 90's and later on, a lot of balding guys just shaved everything off which seems to have led to fewer comb-overs.

@chrisbutler1668 Жыл бұрын

@@ryanjacobson2508 Yes, that was mostly thanks to Michael Jordan. I think he gets the credit for that (but not the credit for trying to bring back the Hitler mustache).

@gjfwang Жыл бұрын

As opposed to hulk hogan and his incredible hair

@johnnysorrowful Жыл бұрын

That classic Lou vs. Thesz match from the classic Chicago footage is one of the best matches of all time.

@szczesciejestkoloruczarneg749 Жыл бұрын

really?

@JohnKelsieMcNair 9 ай бұрын

Lou who versus Lou Thesz?

@nirad1834 Ай бұрын

Lou vs Thesz?

@bradleylepper 3 күн бұрын

Lou Albano?❤

@williamgregory1848 Жыл бұрын

Edouard Carpentier defeated Lou Thesz to win the NWA title in Chicago, but the NWA later overruled the decision of the referee in Chicago and gave the title back to Thesz. However, certain NWA territories including Nebraska refused to go along with that decision and continued to recognize Carpentier as the new NWA champion. Carpentier dropped the title to Gagne in Omaha on August 9, 1958, making him the recognized NWA World champion in the NWA territories that had recognized Carpentier as the NWA World Champion. It might be that certain territories didn’t want to see Thesz (or maybe Thesz himself) drop the title to Gagne, so Carpentier was put in as a transitional champion.

@420ChrisTodd Жыл бұрын

I trained with Mr. Thesz in the late 80's in Norfolk Va. Still one of the few wrestlers with a move named after him. Good guy.

@dreampopwavestudiob7282 Жыл бұрын

how was the training ? I totally want to know.

@georgecosrove3651 Жыл бұрын

Thesz press

@alexhobbs1208 Жыл бұрын

Doubt

@BasementBubbatunde Жыл бұрын

@@alexhobbs1208 what reason would they have to lie about something like that lol

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@BasementBubbatunde Not calling him a liar, as I have no idea, thesz was active untill really, really late in his life. But if he is indeed lying, would be more than likely why any troll would do it, for attention.

@Stratsrule Жыл бұрын

The artwork is fire!!

@aaronholman8288 Жыл бұрын

Really enjoy watching old Thesz vs Gagne Matches. Reminds me of early MMA bouts in Pancrase and Pride

@grawakendream8980 9 ай бұрын

there's only one i know of

@Mr.Majestic77 Жыл бұрын

Things happen for a reason. There would be no AWA (American Wrestling Association) if Lou Thez dropped the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship to Verne Gange.

@grawakendream8980 9 ай бұрын

i don't think verne wanted it. he wouldn't have wanted the work schedule of the champion, working 20+ days a month minimum, going all over the country for single shots. I think he preferred to homestead where he was home at night, performed 15 times a month tops, with summer off. the AWA was basically Verne's retirement plan

@bilklein Жыл бұрын

Uh, guys, ever heard of wrestling magazines? I knew there were world's champions other than Gagne. I knew of Sammartino and Dory Funk, Jr. We weren't ALL ignorant before the internet.

@johannesnuka3908 Жыл бұрын

I wonder sometimes, if the legends of wrestling past (Gagne, Thesz, Rogers etc) could see wrestling today - and nothing in between - would they wven recognize it as the same industry that they ruled back in the day? 🤔

@TheTennesseeFistMachine Жыл бұрын

Either they'd be extremely impressed, or absolutely mortified.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@TheTennesseeFistMachine I'd side with mortified, at least at the goofy, 110% unbelieveable guys that think wrestling should be comedy acrobatics skits.

@richardnealiii462 Жыл бұрын

If not for the ring, collar-elbow tie-up & a few of the basic holds (headlock, arm wrench, hammerlock etc) they probably wouldn't

@lilsunny7399 Жыл бұрын

it depends who. They would throw up at the mere sight of The Young Bucks but then they might look to say, Danielson vs Claudio and see a legitimate wrestling contest. ditto for WWE, as much as seeing someone like Logal Paul in a wrestling ring would make them hurl, seeing say, Gunter vs Sheamus might keep them interested. Remember, the matches most fans consider the best nowadays (that arent named Dave Meltzer) are the ones with hard hitting action, stiff strikes and solid technical and fundamental wrestling.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@lilsunny7399 I doubt they'd see it as a legit contest, as even those guys are a bit more cartoony than what Thesz or Gagne would have been used to.

@natmason5528 Жыл бұрын

Growing up in Chicago during the 60s I can relate to the AWA comments. We knew no other champion except Gagne or whomever he let hold the belt for a month or two. I didn't find out about NWA wresting until the 70s when I visited my aunt in Virginia.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

A little bit later you would know the WWA champion.

@SuperJoshdave Жыл бұрын

You never read any of the wrestling magazines? I grew up in MA in the 80’s until I got cable in late 87 I only knew WWF but I would read my cousins pwi magazine

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@SuperJoshdave There wasn't much of a magazine presence in the 60's.

@SuperJoshdave Жыл бұрын

Matt Mania ran from 64-68 Ring wrestling 58/84 they actually had a ladies wrestling magazine in the 60’s. Not as much as now but still some.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@SuperJoshdave Were those national? Some weren't.

@benespinosa6725 Жыл бұрын

This topic is very interesting

@franciscoj.figueroarivera8337 Жыл бұрын

What l've heard was that the NWA leadership ( some of the leadership) were worried that Kharbo and Gagne would control the NWA championship at their own will. At least Game suspected that the NWA board of directors didn't want him to be the top guy, and that's why, according to him , he told Thesz that he was going to beat him if they were the wrestle a fourth time for the title, but when both he and Kharbo realized that Thesz was not going back to Chicago, that's when they decided to buy out Joe Stecher ( the promoter ) and established the American Wrestling Association.

@marksturley101 Жыл бұрын

Keeping it real here...... That picture is truly majestic with or without The Green Hills being there :)

@kylek9684 Жыл бұрын

7:09 killed me lmfao "Sounded like you had it in a barrel"

@dreampopwavestudiob7282 Жыл бұрын

Buddy Rogers all day Camden , NJ aka CMD

@buffalomanicwolf Жыл бұрын

I’ve always felt Thesz and the NWA relationship itself was a reason. By this point Thesz was on the outs with the office. He went on to create the International title which he told me once was just to slap the office in the face. I think Thesz picked Hutton because he fit the criteria but also straight up to fail. Also the only reason he came back in 63 I believe was just because he hated Rogers to the point he was willing to go in and possibly shoot on him.

@grawakendream8980 9 ай бұрын

i think thesz choosing hutton was a kayfabe. if he picked a guy who could legitimately guzzle anyone, it would give his own reign cred

@uproar17 Жыл бұрын

Waiting for my Facebook group approval. Like waiting outside the house in Fight Club.

@CARTOONIVERSE2.0 14 күн бұрын

Please get Maurice Freeman back.

@chrisgrudge6964 7 ай бұрын

I like more stuff about this golden era. Lou thesz book is a great introduction for anyone wanting to know more about this period

@CARTOONIVERSE2.0 14 күн бұрын

Wow... Why are you not still using THIS artist? GET THEM BACK...what ever it takes. This artist and GET YOYRSEKF A THEME SONG and you can freshen up this aging podcast. INCREDIBLE ARTWORK!

@rudyrusso711 Жыл бұрын

Old Soul dude that would've fit perfectly in the 70s an early/80s...I always thought he would've had great success if used the right way and in the right Territories! ✌️

@hiddensword9387 Жыл бұрын

Jim says Thesz hated Rodgers but on the Thesz documentary/biography Thesz said he got on and liked Rodgers and they both spoke Hungarian together. Maybe at the time Thesz didn't like him but he made no mention of any issues apart from maybe professional rivalry but that doesn't mean he hated him, maybe Jim is misinformed or just got confused on this.

@takerdust Жыл бұрын

it was a professional bio, not a shoot video. So who knows how Thesz really felt?

@gtor2286 Жыл бұрын

Thesz had real heat with Rogers because Rogers was disrespectful toward Ed “Strangler” Lewis. Lewis was Thesz’s mentor. Thesz reconciled with Rogers after they retired and they became friendly. But during their heyday…… Thesz NEVER let Rogers beat him due to the real heat they had.

@grawakendream8980 9 ай бұрын

they spoke german but that wasn't uncommon back then

@jabrockobiden9434 Жыл бұрын

Anyone except Hutton should've won it.

@King4sshole89 Жыл бұрын

A one legged midget would have been a bigger draw than Hutton

@grawakendream8980 9 ай бұрын

lewis and thesz lobbied for hutton because it would raise their credibility by association@@King4sshole89

@5SK.RoyaltyTV Жыл бұрын

Since Jim has no interest in starting a new pro wrestling promotion. I think he definitely needs to make a pro wrestling encyclopedia.

@markradewagen5075 2 ай бұрын

fun discussion

@curtisburgdrof8618 10 ай бұрын

Thank you Jim cornette and brain last very interesting about but the NWA back in the old days very interesting

@thehammockdistrict5355 Жыл бұрын

As an AWA mark, this is awesome stuff

6 ай бұрын

If you watch The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA, according to Mike Chapman, who is quite well respected, he says what apparently happened. The NWA wanted to keep control of the belt with Lou. They were afraid that if Gagne got it, Fred Kohler would keep Verne in the Chicago territory, and they would be shutout. Now how true that is, I don't know, but Mike Chapman knows his stuff.

@Travlr013 5 ай бұрын

Rogers was not the first big heel champ: Bill Longson held the old NWAssociation world title for nearly 6 years in the 1940s (which at that point was an INCREDIBLY long reign, since that title usually changed hands about as often as the WWF belt did in the late 80s and early 90s. But Longson was a travelling champion in much the same way as the NWAlliance champion would a decade and more later. And people paid a lot of good money over those years to see him get beat. Which he was 3 times, by Yvon Robert, Whipper Watson and Lou Thesz, with the last win by Thesz would end up unifying the two NWAs championships after he was awarded the Alliance title after Orville Brown's car accident In fact, it was Longson's fued with Whipper Billy Watson that helped keep Frank Tunney's promotion in Toronto continue after Frank's brother, John -- the original promoter after Jack Corcoran-- and made Toronto one of the four "Meccas of Professional Wrestling". Other than Nanjo Singh and The Sheik, Longson was the big baddie for Toronto fans. And they PACKED Maple Leaf Gardens for years for his appearances.

@VishalSharma-wo6nj Жыл бұрын

Lou Thesz was an NWA soldier

@jamaalmoses8821 Жыл бұрын

Thesz casts such a large shadow..I've never seen any footage of Verne Gagne in his prime..when I think NWA Champs,I think more of the guys in the 70s and 80s..The Funks,Race,Flair,and Rhodes..Would a Gagne vs Thesz match have happened?Weren't they both considered babyfaces?

@Sargebri Жыл бұрын

Thesz was considered what would later be called a tweener. He could work as a face or heel and would do heelish things to get a reaction from the crowd.

@rubenarriaga3029 Жыл бұрын

There’s a KZfaq video of them wrestling

@rubenarriaga3029 Жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r9ymZNqnys3LpXU.html

@jamaalmoses8821 Жыл бұрын

@@rubenarriaga3029 thanks. Watching it right now.

@maxxdahl6062 Жыл бұрын

@@jamaalmoses8821 In the Mid-West, Gagne if he wasn't more popular than thesz, he could definitely give thesz a run for his money . Gagne wasn't a slouch at all.

@tomwalker389 Жыл бұрын

Thesz considered Verne a Light Heavyweight. i.e. he thought he was too small

@orangesilver4568 Жыл бұрын

Lous Thesz lost to Danny Hodge in Japan and Hodge was smaller than Vern Gagne.

@grawakendream8980 9 ай бұрын

lou was in his 50s at the time though@@orangesilver4568

@larryfloyd4993 3 ай бұрын

on pat o'connor.. look what other say on him... you could feel him as you wrestle him..he was so smooth... but he could bury you

@lawrencedorfman5543 Ай бұрын

If my idol Johnny Valentine would have stayed let's say in NY and beat Bruno. But kept his roughness/ just imagine him going against the ones bruno beat and or others. In a way Johnny was like Rocky but tougher. In other parts of the country Johnny was somewhat different and lost to some he would have destroyed in NY. In closing for the record I was Bruno's first Fan Club President with frank Amato. Plus we were good friends in the day with Georgina Masters.

@calikid05 Жыл бұрын

Idk if it’s been asked but what were thing Buddy Rogers say about Ed Lewis.

@jonathanhensley6141 Жыл бұрын

Lou was in Japan during the early 90s and called wrestling in the usa a circus show and not pro wrestling.

@jvharbin8337 Жыл бұрын

Separate but equal, the way wrestling should be! Lol 🤣🤣🤣 J/K

@rickyspanish2412 Жыл бұрын

Still haven't got in the Facebook group I gave up on it I guess I just don't get in been listening to this podcast since i found it 3 years ago 🤷🏽‍♂️

@Jim-Tuner Ай бұрын

If you look at Gagne and Thesz in the ring together, its easy to understand. Gagne was just too small to be NWA world champion.

@bilklein Жыл бұрын

There is a video on YT of Lou Thesz wrestling on AWA All-Star Wrestling. Appears to be just a one-shot deal, Thesz against a jobber. Looks like late 60s-early 70s. If there was any heat, it had cooled down by then.

@greghuffman3061 Жыл бұрын

Verne gone yeah

@spanky9676 Жыл бұрын

Why wasn’t Lou Cez ever champion? Lou Cez vs Hobo Brazil would have main a main event anywhere

@larryfloyd4993 3 ай бұрын

thesz train with a ton of shooter's... verne not as much... later in the late 70's 80 with billy robinson.. thesz would have destory verne gagne.. that is why the nwa kept in on him