All I have to say is Ermes. He went from struggling pulling against wild horse to beating Dave Chaffee because of PEDs. That’s not a little gain. That’s a big jump

I know exactly why Brzenk underplays PED's and its because he's basing it on his own experience and since he started taking them at age 41 he would have seen much less of a response to them in terms of gaining mass and power as somebody who started taking them in their 20's. Although starting PED's at age 41 has its downside it also has an upside that Brzenk is taking advantage of. By starting at age 41 its allowing him to extend his career, its not a coincidence he's 58 years old and still elite on the world stage.

The single best, unarguable example of how much steroids help is Levan. The man is amazing and genetically gifted in the fact that his frame can support that growth, and hyper responds to steroids. But the fact still remains that he didn't become as dominant until he upped his doses and calories and grew over 320+ pounds. Now he has become untouchable. Size and steroids 100% matter greatly, if you have the genetics to respond properly. Edit: I'm not taking anything away from Levan. He's technically amazing and genetically blessed, but he wouldn't be what he is if steroids didn't matter.

It absolutely matters, let's not kid ourselves

I was arms reach at a UAL event when John beat Mike Todd and spoke of retirement… he said… and I quote…” if I keep doing what it takes to be at this level it’s gonna kill me”.. as a guy with my thoughts, this stuck with me. So if it is only a measly percentage why Fisk “killing “ yourself. These conversations are never honest by users because fear credit goes to compound and not ability… but that’s just. It’s way more impactful than they admit. INCREDIBLE GAINS… just look at bodybuilding pre 50s and now… same difference.

Levan, Ermes, Dimitry, Vitaly, Denis, Arsen, Irakli. All those dudes wouldn’t perform half as good as they do now without gear!

Most of the top are already doing it. The strength gain is way more than 2%.

It does make a huge difference if you're already technically sound and have a decent build with above average genetics. Plus some people like Levan are hyper responders and gain crazy amount of size and strength. But as John said, it comes at a cost as the quality of life you lead outside arm wrestling wouldn't be very good.

I'd honestly love to see a all clean League and see who is naturally the most gifted arm wrestler.

You can tell John doesn't really know much about PEDs and he's probably been natural for years and maybe TRT now. You'd need someone to talk like Levan, maybe Chaffee, cyplenkov or Ermes etc. But for sure a few months on tren or 500mg test your side pressure should evolve even higher while not necessarily gaining weight if your calories are in check.

John is such a genuine human being

PEDs don’t just give you mass, different substances can improve strength, reduce recovery time, reduce fat, improve stamina, and improve the psychological sense of one’s own strength. I think John knows this but has a hard time accepting it because he was so dominant as a natty and even now is only on TRT afaik. To him, it helps maintain more than gain. But for others, it’s like night and day. Prudnik is another good example. After a cycle, he he’s a different man. Voevoda is another example. If you took PEDs away from these guys, they would not be the same, not even close.

John you’re a a great guy but don’t be delusional about steroids

I mean, they've worked amazingly for Ermes

Just look at Ermes, he's gained over 40 kilos in like 2 years. You can see he's going the Denis Path. Hopefully he doesn't end in the hospital as well.

Lol, "not that much different than what they were"? Look at ermes, levan ect. Steroids make a huge difference. For example ermes. He lost horribly to matt mask and now he just destroyed chaffee 3-0 after bulking to nearly 300 pounds from steroids. That's a huge difference. Lol, look at morozov also. The dude is only 24 and gained that much mass and strength already.

I seriously doubt that Denis and Levan would have become what they are, without steroids. I think John is missing the fact that some substances can also alter your bone structure, in addition to increasing muscle mass.

John is such a good human being I suspect he’s thinking of avoiding influencing young guys to jump on gear and damage their health.

Funny that John thinks steroids has no effect... Alexy Voevoda says John is WRONG!!!! LMAO!!!!

If U think John was natty untill 44...sorry but thats a bit dum thinking. Gains aint everything.

They all use steroids (at the elite level and even way below probably). It makes a huge difference but steroids don’t make a good armwrestler, it takes a lot of dedication and also genetics. That said nobody could ever reach the elite without PDs, but 95% (or more) of people couldn’t reach the elite even with all steroids in the world

There is no competetive armwrestler that is not taking steroids. For example in WAF where anti doping is a thing, starting at 55 kg to 110+ in every single weith class almost all favorite guys are on peds, imagine in every weight class u have to face : gifted genetics mixed with years of work and tons of roids. does not matter how gifted and dedicated u are, without tanking as much peds as them u are not winning against them.

It's not just about the moment you compete, it also affects the training capabilities and limits. No physical sport should allow steroids users mixed with natural athletes. There should be an EVERYTHING ALLOWED cathegory and a NATURAL cathegory, both being as transparent as possible

But it's not a little bit extra, it's an insane amount of extra. It can be skeletal frame changes. Look at Levan

I think maybe what John is getting at is it won't help a ton because with that strength gain comes a lot more weight so you have to go up against bigger guys now.

If the sport can add lighter weight classes and build up the interest in smaller guys, steroids/GH will be less important. That's already happening with the separation between the heavyweights and superheavies. We tuned in to see if Devon could rise to challenge Levan, but we're looking forward to seeing more matches at 253 or 265, etc. As new athletes arrive on the scene, we may look forward more to a 155lb championship than a Levan match. I think it will track the growth of the UFC which started with no weight classes and gradually added classes down to 125 lbs.

This is a great example of someone who should stay in the lane of expertise To say steroids won’t help or to say they only help 10% He’s either insecure about his own usage after 44 or truly has no idea about how steroids affect the body Just because there are people who use them and don’t get results you’d expect doesn’t mean they don’t help

I wouldn't expect John to be an expert in steroids, however, he is right in saying steroids wont help if there is no foundation. John was natural pretty much his whole career, built an excellent foundation, then only looked into TRT when old age became a bigger factor. He wanted to maintain what he had and in doing so it allowed him to extend his dominance well beyond most other arm wrestlers while staying healthy. I doubt you will see the likes of Levan or Ermes still at the top in the next 10 years let alone in their 60's because of health issues they'll have to combat from all the hardcore steroids.

Why did you end at the best part😂

Devon went from like 260 to 300 in like 5 months. That aint pancakes. Not to mention his head grew like 5 hat sizes like Barry Bonds.

John as great he is isnt really educated enough on PEDs to give a good answer. The best thing you get is that you recover 2-3x faster which means you can train 2-3x more. its a HUGE difference. plus you gain strength advantage aswell.

You better ask all the European monsters about it

Can we appreciate the growth of Pradeep as a figure in the sport great content and very brave to tell the Goat that you disagree on some point hats off my friend

Good interview Mr. Pradeep.. I would've gotten starstruck and wouldve forgot how to talk, I'd been a nervous wreck lol

Lot of torn biceps happen. Muscles get stronger faster, but your tendons don't, they take a lot longer. So with all the force and different direction of movement when armwrestling. Tears can happen easily.

The fact that results in sports would be different if over-eating, training, and taking steroids would all somehow be banned and prevented is proof that over-eating, training and taking steroids just destroys the spirit of sports

I gotta say, I respect John’s opinion more than any other person in their respective sport, but as a former juice head myself (did multiple cycles in my 20s), the strength gains are MASSIVE. At the top levels, of course, more steroids aren’t going to necessarily make you start winning...BUT earlier in your career, you can absolutely skyrocket your progress miles and miles ahead of where you would be otherwise.

I like your interview with John, you let him talk without interrupting him

if u are same weight well 80kg with roids and no roids its still different, deca and stuff giving u hell of a strength

They help DRAMATICALLY ! lol it’s a huge benefit ! Dennis, levan, and all the other hulks went on gear for years and years ! They pushed their bodies beyond what they could do without juice. Of course without juice u can be a great arm wrestler but when you are in the elite level of arm wrestling, 1 percent can be the difference between winning and losing ! Steriods will help anyone in any sport by at least 20-30 percent of whatever u could do before ! It’s a very very beneficial thing. Guys are using 3000mg a week at the top level some more some less. And they are using HGH. This is jet fuel for arm wrestlers !

Thanks for asking him

I am a regenerative doctor and PED do increase not only the strength of muscles but they increase the strength of tendons and ligaments and the repair of tendons and ligaments. They basically enhance the natural repair process that the body innately has. The interosseous attachments of a tendon to a bone or a ligament to a Bone are also strengthened. This is very applicable with elbow injuries in arm wrestling. You can repair those injuries with PRP and regenerative growth factors tantamount to stem cells, but if you want to increase the overall constant general repair process of muscles, tendons and ligaments then taking PED’s would do that.

It definitely makes a huge difference. Growing up in sports, some friends and people that I know admitted that they used them. They made gains so fast that it was mind blowing. I like John but, if they don't make much difference why did he start taking them at 44 and why want he stop. I prefer to watch natural athletes. I do not care if they do not look and perform like marvel characters.

Pretty sure you take someone like Chaffee and put him on a massive HGH plan you’d get another Levan. The repercussions would be irreparable health wise, but you’d be the best for a period of time.

Imagine if nobody did PEDs and everyone just pulled or competed with natural strength gained by hard work. Wow, what an idea!

It all depends on the person. Some bodies respond incredible well to steroids and they gain a ton of weight and strenght.

Great interviewer

Lots of people use peptides also now. BPC 157 is great for tendons strength. They is another that you take with that aswell but forgot what it is. Halotestin also does help with strength and rage. Rugby guys take that also.

so many gay lovers say Devon doesn't use 😆😆

There is also the recovery aspect, allowing you to train more, recover more and do more diverse training

Well i guess in the competitive world of sports, you've got to do all this supplement to stay up there. But everyone still needs to work in their craft and follow the general consensus in the industry.

Finally someone speaking about steroids in AW

I'm a machine wen it comes to armwrestling i don't need steroids. But I won't reach high levels for being natural

Wait!! How do you just end the video with a question like that without showing Johns answer!!?

Levan is the Barry Bonds of arm wrestling.

And here I've just been using creatine and 200g of protein a day,lol . Every workout for past 6 months I go up 1 to 2 reps each time on almost every exercise, others it takes 2 or 3 workouts to go up a rep or so. But making great gains without PEDs and I'm 41 and workout my whole life in one form or another.

You don’t think Richard Lupkes was on gear??

PEDS also increases bone, ligament, and tendon density, and strength though.

I get what John is saying about having the right structure and technique but that can be said about any sport. PEDs will make a big difference when combined with increased stress capacity and training. Furthermore, it will make the user more aggressive which I think is a good thing for arm wrestlers

a 5% gain is MASSIVE in elite sports of any kind.

Dont underestimate the optimized rehab when on juice. You can just train and take a lot more volume and weight. This accumulates over time.

We have to remember that we have the outlier's who are hyper responders! Those are the guys who has gained approximately 100 pounds.

If you’re training correctly and eating well, you will respond many times better than someone who just decides to jump on. When you see someone who made a huge gain, that usually means they have already been training and eating well and their genetics played a role in a response to the PEDs.

John always well spoken and thought out on his views

It should build them up 🆙 and more I have seen it in the weight rooms 😅

That question is answered with the example of Larry Wheels.

I would have to disagree with John. There is an enormous difference between natural and PED usage. That slight edge can mean the difference between winning and losing in any sports. I don’t blame him for defending it so much because he’s used it to gain back his endurance and strength to competitive levels.

peds can strengthen ligaments too

Awesome bro you interviewed Brzenk, love your channel by the way sir you do great work !.

Oh it make A LOT of difference. Look at evgeny prudnyk and ermes gasparini for example. Those two used to be quite slim and now are heavyweights! If you are already great at armwrestling and have the wrist, tendon and forearm strength, itll only make you better. Better recovery from training, higher training frequency, larger/ stronger muscles, tendon and bone thicken over time, the list goes on.

Perfect ending.

PEDs allow the muscle to improve in many ways. If you train correctly the stress your muscles place on the tendons and ultimately the bones will lead to improved durability there as well. The process simply takes longer then it takes for muscles to adapt. Force development is more important then hypertrophy. PEDs will help there. John Brzenk on PEDs and the correct training in his day would have been freaky.

Everyone at an elite level in any physical sport is on performance enhancements. They create this idea that people are "drug tested" and that it means something. It doesn't mean anything at all.

Athletes at the very top of a sport are usually separated by less then 1 percent. To say that 2-3% won't help much is crazy.

all due respect to John..... Levan is prime example of what they do.... people might say Denis ... but that not true since Denis was taking them before he started arm-wrestling as he was professional strongman before he started doing arm-wrestling.

When you are 50lbs heavier with 25lbs of that being muscle it is a big difference especially in the super heavy weight class. He might have been a great arm wrestler but he is either not very intelligent or just playing it down. In regards to staying in your current weight class, think about it you drop 5% bodyfat weight and replacie that with 5% muscle weight that 's a huge advantage and not hard to do on steroids.

I think JB is underestimating the strength gain. For some people it makes a huge difference

Agree 100%

Dennis has all the answers in this topic.

I dont think that (steroids) should be the main topic, It should be ALL PEDS because the main issue with learning and becoming a great armwrestler is the ability to train smart and not get hurt. Armwrestling is horrible for injuries and pain in general. Most people who attempt to become armwrestlers never last because its painful . NOW there are several PEDS that aid in tendon and muscle rapair helping the beginner and experienced armwrestler to get back on the table sooner with far less pain... what's the use of taking steroids and becoming (strong) if you cant use the strength because of pain or injury...

The unfortunate reality of steroids being illegal. What should be a very nuanced conversation about relative gains versus drawbacks is completely lacking any real information because the people talking about them know practically nothing about them and their effects.

It will make u stronger it won’t make u a world champion if your not already talented

Isnt that guy the alien from that Tim Allen space movie

Devon abuses stem cells, that's next level, strength and endurance right there

Nobody wants to REALLY talk. This sport is structured on gear and it is the foundation of all the big time events and guys. Without pulling back the curtain and addressing the wizard… we can never go home toto. Just because it’s “John” does not remotely make him right. Half his career was unnatural. That guy who won over the top at 190 ish would get SMOKED in todays field. Look at his return… he was in 1 minute plus wars getting his wrist taken by guys not on world stage in dmitry kachan… then improves every month… to thicker, heavier, stronger… ( tough to do in late 50s… if not impossible) and goes on to smoking a many many many time waf, zloty and everything else champ in zoloev. If they pulled when he pulled dmitry… zoloev wins easy. What changed.? It’s John… not his knowledge or lanes…. Be honest… look at obvious.

They are all on steroids -Nate Diaz

I think John doesn't know much about steroids

Levan went from just another super heavy in the pack to absolutely untouchable for years, until someone was willing to do as much gear as him. Not everyone is a hyper responder like that but for guys who are, it's massively advantageous. Look at Denis...Levan....how big and strong Ermes got in a short time.

Having been around runners who needed to increase their V02 Max, Certain types of steroids increase oxygenation and reuptake. That is why cycling pro's and runners use them. But there is no beating a natural athlete who is dedicated anyway so when they also take enhancements they become unbeatable in their class. I am naturally in the 91st percentile when testing my V02 max. While that is excellent there would be no way for me to win a race against a runner who has worked on it their whole lives and wins races. I did nothing with my natural ability but if I were to train for three years in any weight sport, I would not need to use PEDs. I would max out later than most naturally. You see how Devon breaths when he competes? He has a high rate of oxygenation so he can outlast a sprint hitter who breaths short and heavy or who has to hold their breath to make progress.

Steroids is not just about gaining mass like John says. Some help growing muscles, other improve endurance, the other increase recovery etc etc. In any sport nowadays natural athletes and juiced are like a day and night. I guess John was too genetically talented and sport was too young so thats the difference wasn’t that noticeable back then

We will NEVER again see natural ability rein like Brzenk.

Make no mistake. Arm wrestling is a strength sport. I respect John's opinion alot. But if you factor in everything, PEDs help tons. It's not just about muscle gain, but a huge thing is recovery. You can just practise all day long and heal from it. All he knows is probably TRT and a few other drugs. But there is very potent stuff on the market, that most people have no idea about.

👍👍👍

Drugs are rampant in arm wrestling - it’s pathetic

Lol, the discussions in armwresting turned out similar to the ones in bodybuilding, haha good old days

FINALLY! Look at Levan’s old matches. That dude has easily put on 50 pounds of muscle since his early career. He’s blasting the trenboloney sandwiches and nobody’s talking about it.

This was the most ignorant comment every mouthed by John in regards to armwrestling. John couldn't be any farther from ignorant so I have to believe that he is "protecting" the top of the pecking order, which is actually admirable. The best possible example of how steroids can catapult a professional's career is Barry Bonds. He was as talented as anyone in baseball but he just didn't have the strength/power to drive the ball at a historic rate. Anyone that has ever played baseball on any level knows that to hit homeruns consistently you have to have power. ALL the power comes from your glutes and quads, you know, the two largest muscle groups in the body. If you already possess the eye-hand coordination to effectively make contact with major league pitching, just think what you can do with new found muscle mass that you have never possessed in your natural life. And Barry did it at the absolute tailend of his career, which shows just how talented he was to begin with. Longwinded response I know, John is unequivocally wrong on this one.

It’s an absolutely massive advantage. Natural powerlifters totals are not even close to their PED using counterparts. Maybe a 20-50% advantage. 2 words….Levan Saganashvili

Looking at levan before and after is crazy.

Yeah Levan.