todd Brewer That surely is a beautiful tractor ,to me they sound like the engine is missing though. Back in the day I farmed with an IHC super wd9 ,easy to start ,very powerful in its day and smooth running ,there is no way in hell I would swap it for a John Deere R.

@@interman7715 Agreed. The super WD9 was so nimble on the headlands, whip that huge steering wheel and tap the wheel brake just as the front tires start to push dirt and she came around 180 degrees in a 9 foot circle. And when you couldn't afford a battery a 90 lb kid could start that big diesel with the hand crank (on gasoline).

That’s the way I was taught to do it when starting the old Cats. I still think it’s a superior system for that reason - the ability to crank the engine with no load on the bearings. I know I cringe every time my Duramax starts, waiting those couple of seconds for the oil gauge to come up. We have a 730 Diesel so your pair is very similar to ours. They’re a little clumsy with the hand clutch and the 730 has too high of a reverse gear but overall they are well made for their intended job, and I don’t think that anything puts out more work for less fuel

Thanks Jon, Dreyfuss And Raymond Loewy were the big two in industrial design back in the day. I believe that Loewy was responsible for International's look back in the '50's, and of course the beautiful GG1 electric locomotive.

hui

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Way too excessive on both engines. It’s not -20 people.

Good times. New tractors are awesome machines but these old twins had personalities.

TheUberGopher lol I still launch it off our old 60

I have a 70 and I remember when my grandfather was still alive a squirrel managed to shove some acorns up into the pipe through the coffee tin, so when he cranked it was raining burning acorns

I dearly loved to blow smoke rings out of an old D-6 and an 8-H as well! Nothing like watching the flap go up and the smoke roll till the turbo wound up!

Got a 77 Allis Chalmers, left the exhaust uncovered las winter. Went to start it up this spring and got covered in nasty water from the exhaust manifold.

deeredad .

At -40 degrees it took 3 tanks of pup fuel to get the temperature gauge to move- with the main engine motoring to provide a load after the first tank. At the same time that day the engine oil from a Minneapolis U special warmed at the back of the kitchen wood & coal range and it's cooling system was run through the heater hoses of a v-8 pickup truck. The two batteries warmed behind the stove and still needed booster cables to get the U going. (The Deere pup was hand cranked- hadn't had a battery that fall apparently)

The D6600, D8800, D13000, D17000 all shared the 5 3/4 x 8 dimensions, just a different number of cylinders, and yes I it was from this series that I believe JD took their influence. But there were differences as well, for example the Cat was a precup engine while the JD had direct injection so the fuel systems were very different

Just use a warm spark plug and warm gasoline. Boiling tea kettle poured over the carburetor. Pull the plug and warm it nicely with a soldering blow torch.

@@wssides Haha.....sounds about right!

what is the reason why you couldn't cultivate with it?

@@ivordavies2976 it was not a row crop tractor. The wheel widths were in a fixed position. It was designed to be a tillage tractor primarily so it was big and didn't have good visibility like the A and B. Also there is no place to mount a cultivator.

My not-so-fondest memory of those days was, because the tractor had no cab, if you got in a cross wind on a hot, windy day, the wind would sand-blast you with dirt off of the tires. :(

You said a mouthful there! Men were men and married a woman. After a full day of sweaty work, you could fall asleep immediately. Then get up the next day and do it again!

It’s a dry clutch, I believe the reason it acts like that is because it’s a multi disc

@@dieseldave71 *Right!* I completely forgot about multi disc!

Pete 913, pull starting is another way to start them.

Cool tractor diesel dave

Not really dumbass

Ryan Forst you may never know

Yeah, I have some Cat pony motors like that lol. But that's more a maintenance issue than anything else. Cat designed those ponys to be easy to start, and when they're right they fire right up. Unfortunately, especially with a limited use machine, points get dirty, gas gets old, batteries go dead, etc, and they can be a real hassle.

@Just a person I cranked pony motors on idle and let them warm up that way. My generators have throttles and start running slow. The Cat equipment I operated started with 800 r p.m. idle. I never bent a rod or wrecked things because of cold cranking wide open. I helped rig throttles on things so it wouldn't start hammered. Usually big generators are heated so they start warmed up. The Cats had pre-lube pumps. I ran a 980 Cat loader that had 24000 hours, yes THOUSAND and had never been touched as far as mechanically. None of my mowers nd small engines start wide open, just the new throw away junk does. And I've been driving and operating a little over 50 years and have a sound record to back it up. I think it matters how you treat things. My Sea Bee Uncle always said that you might treat something today so you might need to make a living with it tomorrow.

@Just a person I watch videos and shudder every time something starts hammered. I look for rods to start going through walls after they've already gone through the block. And a lot of stuff HAS to be warmed up gradually. I ran a 245 Cat ex shovel fitted with a hydraulic hammer at a quarry. It had a 3406 engine and if you didn't baby it in cold weather it'd strip the whole pump drive unit out. And a high rev cold start can't be good on older stuff which I was around a lot. If someone else wants to hammer something, fine. Just as long as it isn't mine!

@@lewiemcneely9143 What engine did that 980 have in it?

@@dieseldave71 The old 980 had a 3406. Square hood job. The 980G had a newer one. The4 'H' model newer still and the current 'J' has def. I quit on the 'G' with 24K hours. No rebuilds.

@@lewiemcneely9143 Ok, I was thinking 3406 but something clicked in my head about maybe one having a 336, if I remember right that would have had to be back in the ‘60’s or ‘70’s. BTW, I always enjoy reading your comments, you seem like someone I would like to sit down with over a pot of coffee or a couple of beers and talk old iron for a couple of hours

I did, you can hear the “clank” at 7.36 as I re engage the clutch while coasting to a stop. And it’s difficult to make out but you can see the belt pulley is turning

Must have been a workout for an 11 year old, no power steering option on these old machines!

@@dieseldave71 yep Armstrong steering. But then most farm kids are actually in better physical shape than game box junkies.

"Non-compliant", that's good! Lmao My neighbor has an AC WD, the farmer across the road has an eclectic mix of Farmalls, Cases, MF's, and JD's. He seems to like his Case the best, and praises the MF's as well. I like 'em all, each seems to have their strong and weak points and everyone had their standout models and their dogs. We run mostly Deeres because that's what we started off with, beginning with my great grandfather's M, on which we recently completed a complete overhaul - engine, trans, rear, hydraulics, everything, as well as cosmetics. We also have a Massey Harris Colt which belonged to my grandfather, we did the mechanical restoration and are getting ready to do the tin and paint. The M is fun to run for a little while and it pulls like a son of a gun but if we have to spend a day in the seat we always seem to gravitate to the MH- smoother, quieter, rides better and plenty of power after we installed a 162 Continental in place of the 124 it came with.

Because the Road was a rice tractor

Use to drive a 620 on a fruit farm in the mid-Hudson Valley in upstate New York back in the early 1960's. Loved the power of that "Johnny Popper". Only complaint, could not match speed of the big Internationals and MF's on the open highway. I was a kid then and wanted to go fast . Embarrassed when those other tractors passed me.

I don't think that department existed back then lol Just make it bigger and heavier to handle the vibration. We used to brush hog with our smaller M two cylinder, and you could count on breaking at least one shear bolt a day, and that was just cutting grass, no stumps or obstructions to hit. We since switched the brush hog to a larger four cylinder tractor and have never broken a shear bolt with it in the same conditions. The two cylinders sound and feel great for an hour or two, but by the end of the day you just want to get off the thing.Those power pulses are tough on things, both human and mechanical.

MichaelTJD60 in reality they weren't very powerful more bark than bite

@@RJ1999x Wasn't this 80 hp on the drawbar? I don't think there was another farm tractor with higher horsepower in 1949 unless you were looking at crawlers. IH big tractor at the time was the W-9 and it was only in the 65 horse power range. It's nothing compared to what came a decade later, but for its day it was THE big tractor to have.

43 hp at the drawbar

I believe that gauge is broken

We went through D, G, 70, 730, 4020. I still have the 4020.

Thanks. I sometimes like to run the pony for awhile, especially if a machine has been sitting for awhile. The oil pressure comes up pretty quick, but it still takes awhile for the oil to get around to the whole engine- rocker arms and such. Also, since the pony warms the diesel as well as spins it, it's good to let it produce a bit of heat. Plus, it's good for the pony itself to warm up before being put under full load- no engine thrives on a diet of being started, run for 10 seconds, and shut down.

Yup. In the winter we used to start the old R or 80 pup engine and let it turn the diesel over on de-compression while we milked the cows. Then go over and kick off the de-compressor lever. Great tractors. And the sound of them starting still is music.

Our 820 had a foot-actuated locking lever that would hold both the cranking clutch and decompression levers in the cranking position.

Right around 50, give or take. Doesn't sound like much, does it? Sure feels like a lot more! IMO horsepower is a lousy way to measure the performance of a tractor and the lack of "hp at the brochure" was a big factor in the demise of the 2 cylinder JD. One example of how misleading hp numbers can be is the performance of the big 150hp Case steamer that fellow rebuilt out in the Midwest. On the dyno it made 5000+ ft/lbs of torque but since the rpm was so low it calculated out to "only" 170hp or so. Yet there is a video of it pulling a 36 bottom plow, and at a pretty good pace too. I heard guys saying that they doubted their 500+hp articulated modern machines would do as well. On a personal note we have a JD M that is rated at 18hp and a little Japanese 3 cylinder diesel tractor also rated at 18hp. We tried hooking the disc we run behind the M (which it pulls in 3rd gear) to the little tractor and it would not pull it at all under any condition. Wasn't a matter of gearing or weight, just didn't have the power. Yet if you hooked them to a dyno they would both make 18hp. So, even though this R "only" makes 50hp, they are very, very big horses lol

not quite, glow plugs were used long before the R. John Deere just chose not to use them

All diesels are high compression. That's why the pony engine over the 6 volt starter.

Caterpillar calls them a pup motor.

We just called it the "starting engine".

The true name is. Cranking Engine

Pup

Nebraska tested it in 1949 at 17.63 hp hours per gallon at rated belt load. This was by far the most fuel efficient tractor tested up until that time, and was only surpassed by the 720 diesel in 1956 at 18.33 hp hours per gallon, and that record stood for decades.

You didn't then, either. You could buy a Cockshutt 50, a Massey-Harris 55, or an Oliver 99 and not have to go through any of that. Even a McCormick WD9 didn't have half that nuisance.

42lookc wd-9s are a total pile of shit

Nah, it should still be like that. Nothing better

The pony is connected to the main engine via a clutch and bendix drive. The pony was started electrically, but the 6v battery and starting system that starts the 25ci pony has no chance of spinning the 417ci diesel. As I was saying in a comment a couple of days ago, we have a slightly newer JD diesel with a 24v direct electric starting system, and our experience with that is that the charging systems of the day, which would be a generator and regulator, were just not up to the task. That tractor could have been equipped with a pony start system as well instead of the 24v and many were set up that way. Hope this answers your question.

Thank you sir! I drive truck for a living. I owned a 2000 IHC 9400i Eagle, with an N14 Cummins. It was an 855cid motor rated at 460hp/1600lb/ft of torque. From the factory; it had 3, Group 31, 12v batteries (in parallel) to roll that motor over. For the most part, unless she sat for an extended period of time in sub freezing temps, that was enough to lite her off. I didn't realize that that old J-D was a 6v/generator system...

Everybody had their own system back in the day to get the diesels started. Of course the big stationary engines had (and still have) compressed air through starting valves but this isn't convenient for a mobile application. Cat always liked their pony motors and used them right through the '60's. IH had the start on gas, run on diesel system which was clever in its own way but added a lot of complexity to the engine. I've seen some Detroits with hydro-starts which was a hydraulic accumulator system, nice thing about those is that they could be pumped up manually if need be, and of course some old OTR trucks were air start which was ok if your rig would hold air. Remember the old Macks with the 24/12v systems? Good times... lol Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when reliable 12 and 24 volt systems finally showed up.

I remember waking up to those old CF air start diesels! :D

Yeah, starting was a big issue with early diesels. Even at this date 24v systems were still in their infancy. I don't believe that making a 24v starter was much of a problem, I think the issue was more in the charging system. We have a 730 Deere that is 24v, and Dad wanted to keep it original so we spent a lot of time and effort on the generator and regulator but to no avail. In order to get 24 volts out of that Delco generator the wiring was hair thin and we had no end of problems with open circuits. It has an alternator on it now.

It prob for the best if it was then

I never heard that one. Never heard of a Case LA with a Detroit in it either

Your dreaming

That gas tank had us confused for a little while when we first got the tractor. It's not exactly an intuitive thing, and we had to trace out the fuel lines to get it figured out. Not the easiest thing to manipulate when you have a camera in the other hand either lol. I do appreciate the idea, though- when you are on the tractor looking down that long hood everything is perfectly symmetrical, kinda neat.

You are indeed helpful! lol the reason that I keep choking it is that I'm using the choke as a substitute throttle to keep the rpm down until the little motor has a chance to at least get some oil circulating. For whatever reason JD designed this pony with no throttle. It just runs wide open on the governor at 4000rpm from the instant it starts. Later JD pony's had throttles, all my Cat pony's have throttles- I believe that this was a mistake on Deere's part, but they probably had their reasons at the time

The tractor was modern enough for the time. Reliable, easy to maintain and repair, even rebuild.

Sounds like the carburetor is out of adjustment. That, and it was cold, and he kept on adjusting the choke.

ok

+meister djanget >Had you listened to his introduction, he does that to keep the pony from running at full speed for a time, as it has no throttle control.

Because he likes it to not run wide open, So he messes with the choke to warm it up, Then he lets it run wide open to start the big engine.