For any of you that don't believe or understand Doug Wilsons view, I highly recommend that you look into it. It has completely changed the way that I read God's word, and now makes much more sense to me than it ever did before. Be patient, it will take time to confront the indoctrination that we have all received through our culture. God bless

Loved this. I love these types of conversations! :)

Maybe the best video on the Internet.

Thanks for the video. New sub here. I enjoy the discussion on this and am encouraged by the looking to Christ’s return. P.S. I grew up in northern Minnesota and have visited Bethlehem Baptist when Piper was preaching.

thank-you very much for uploading this interesting video, do you have anymore footage of this conference or know where I can find it?

Douglas Wilson "It FEELS GUUUD!"

Infant Baptism and Postmil for the win baby ❤️

Juggernauts of theology. Love an educated discussion like this.

All I gotta say is that Jesus will return regardless of our eschatological persuasions. Pre mill, post mill, or otherwise, he’s coming back. Maybe don’t try to kill each other over things that can’t be known until they happen?

I could only understand about 60 or 70% of the words but did someone say that the gospel only deals with death and resurrection? I submit that there is a lot more to the gospel than that. Much of what is being taught under the heading of “eschatology” today is based on doctrines that were developed when western Europe was in the grip of a geocentric view of the universe. When the Gospels and the Epistles are studied on that false foundation, the CAN be understood to support a number of doctrines that are considered “traditional”. On the other hand, if the Hebrew Bible is studied (or at least perused) first and then the Gospels and Epistles are studied from that perspective, it isn’t necessary to build on the foundation of the doctrines that were developed during the dark ages. An illustration: I’m 74. It seems to me that, when I was a boy, there were still “science” textbooks that taught that matter could neither be created nor destroyed. Now--in the atomic age--that “scientific” doctrine is no longer considered by most people to be a valid assumption. In the first century AD, the pagan Romans hated the Hebrews. In an attempt to divert that hatred from themselves, people in Rome who believed Jesus to be the true Messiah began to teach that the Church had REPLACED Israel as the object of the Lord’s supreme regard. Fifty years ago, my parents didn’t agree with the doctrine that the Roman Church was the universal church but they were still comfortable with the doctrine that the church (I’m using the lowercase “c” here to distinguish the church as consisting of all true believers regardless of our denominational affiliation) replaced Israel. I’ve never subscribed to that doctrine. I consider the church (believers in Jesus) to be the true CONTINUATION of the belief system of the Hebrew patriarchs and prophets of antiquity and, thus, that it is to the church or through the church that the promises to Israel and the prophecies about Israel will be fulfilled. If someone considers that premise to be worth investigating, I’d like to hear from you. My email address is r.metzger44@gmail

Sound is so bad I can't understand what they are saying.

See Gary Cangelosi's "God's Kingdom on Earth and in Heaven." He turns the 3 popular ideas on their heads using common sense exegesis and plenty of writings from the ante nicene fathers. A builder/developer, not a sycophant/mentee of a well larded position espoused by a similar academic, he closes the deal in about 80 pages. But, feel free to read the other 420.

The Christians on this discussion panel continue to reject (Tracks 1:07:15-25...)“their inculcation received from Christendom". Collectively continuing to search the scriptures as they matriculate toward accurate bible truths. By the looks of things the member discussions are sorting it out (in some cases thought for thought) as articulated in the classic ‘Babylon the Great has Fallen (Rev. 18:2)...God Kingdom Rules’ (Psalms 22:28). Their footsteps are following along the pathway of past familiar searchers of enlightenment (Daniel 12:1-4) Their sincerity is endearing (Acts 1:6-8). We must not give up praying (for them and for those that listen to them) that they may continue to find the truth (1 Tim. 4:16).

Jesus said the 2nd coming would be like the days of Noah....

Better audio version: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/geBln5py0LjXk6c.html

piper acts like he is indispensable to God's plan...I I I I I I I I I I DID AND AND WILL DO

Hmm

There seems to be too much preoccupation with events on this dying earth, and not enough focus on the things above, the present triumph of Christ with His saints in heaven. There is a present triumph over death for the faithful dead in Christ. There is joy in heaven prior to the resurrection after the second coming of Christ as judge to conclude this present phase of earth's history. Set your affection on things above, not on things of the earth. We are passing through this present world, as pilgrims, and strangers to the worldly systems of fallen men. Let us do all the charitable good we can while we are here, but don't get too fixated on this transient world, to the neglect of the present reality of heavenly glory.

Make it translate in Indonesia language

I think Wilson's argument that 70 A.D. is the climatic transition point sounds convincing, but is extra-biblical. So it only carries so much weight.

why most peoples are waiting for a earthy reign when Hebrew clearly look at a celestial reign???

John, Doug and Tim, I applaud your desire to give glory to God and His Son. However the Holy Spirit revealed through the NT writers that the coming of Jesus the Christ (Messiah) would come back when the work of the Holy Spirit was completed. The HS would give the apostles the words to speak, the interpretation of prophecy, the speaking in tongues to the nations, the ability to heal, raise the dead, and other things "as a sign" that they were from God. There are over 300 scriptural references to the 200+ prophecies that the Messiah would come in the time of the 4th kingdom of Daniel, the Romans to die for our sins. After a trial period of 40 years, as the Israelites went through the trials in the wilderness, He would return and destroy the Law of Sin and Death, to destroy the murderers of the prophets and those that filled up the measure of their fathers by killing the Father's Son, with the blood of the Messiah Himself. Matt 23; Hebrews 8b-11. Hebrews 9 is the only verse to refer to a "coming a second time". The writer tells us in 1:1 that this was the end of days of Daniel, not the end of time, and in 9:26 he tells of the 1st coming as the sacrifice for sin and the 2nd time, during the end of this age, the consummation of all that was written in the OT, to bring the joy of salvation from the throngs of Satan. Chapter 11 tells us of the longing to see this day and it was quickly approaching. The Mosaic laws of sacrifice and ceremony, that availed nothing and was not even liked by the Father, was fading away and was about to vanish as the New Covenant of the blood of Jesus the Christ was coming into full view. It would be seen by all nations that they "might know that I am God" when they saw the "foretold" destruction of the Jewish economy. No temple, no priestly ordinances, no more animal sacrifice, no more offering of first fruits as it has been all fulfilled by the Son of God, the sacrifice of Jesus the Messiah. Read about the War of the Jews and Romans, 66-73AD (hmm 7 years), the destruction of the temple in 70AD, (hmm the middle of the tribulation) and then reread Matthew 23-25; 18; 10; 16 and the parallel accounts in Mark 8-9; 13; and Luke 17, 19, 21. The tribulation and man of sin Paul wrote about to the Thessalonians in two letters, remember written to them around 50-52AD, does not say written to Christians but seal it up because it will occur many days hence. Thank You for studying your bible with an open and fresh mind without the hindrances of Satan with preconceived but false ideas. In His Love.

Lots of conjecture here and very little handling of the Scripture.

Jesus will return the way that God said he would return. If you take the Bible literally, it's not too hard to figure out.

Dear Lord, Would it be possible for you to provide your Jews, Muslims, & Christians with another planet on which to exercise their religiosity? Sincerely, The Rest of Us

John Piper has lost all credibility with Christians when he gave tacit support for Biden. Sorry, pal.

The more I hear Doug Wilson talk the less I like him 🚨 UPDATE BELOW ! 🚨

i cannot trust piper anymore to exegete himself out of a paper bag

I dissagree with John Piper....The Work of Christ was DONE on the CROSS The WRATH of God was SATISFIED on the CROSS.... After Noah, Christ was still to come...Christ has come & gone...no need to continue to 'pay out on His wrath' let's just SPREAD the GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL of CHRIST to all the World, so that ALL those the FATHER HAS GIVEN HIM will get their ' day of Salvation' & Christ returns for His Bride.... then its all over...those that are His are with Him & the rest are at their appointed destination....

A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth. ================================ Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.

Ya if you continue to misinterpret scripture, there great!

Israelology is the missing link in this theology God has a covenant and many promises with the people of israel this is a major subject with christs return he wont return until the jews will welcome him

As far as an optimistic vs pessimistic view of this age, these theologians are really ignoring a big question. "What is it about this age that makes it so bad?" You know what my answer is? I don't believe evil is engineered into this world. We are supposed to pray that the GOODNESS OF GOD not the EVILS OF THE AGE, would lead the lost to repentance. Romans 2:4 An evil world leads to hardness of heart in the lost. It drives the lost into atheism and reincarnation & Deism NOT TO CHRIST. A GOOD WORLD is fuel for the spread of the gospel. We are to pray that we may live quiet and peaceful lives, not to survive in a world of violence and terror through taking up arms and military force guarding our lives and possessions. That is the world of Ragner Redbeard where might makes right. That is the world of Darwin the survival of the fittest. 1 timothy 2:2 A dangerous world, a world full of tragedies wars & genocides constantly challenges our faith in God and Jesus Christ as well as driving the lost to atheism agnosticism reincarnation militarism Darwinism & at best deism. We live in a world where governments are the greatest murderers not individual actors. For every one homicide an individual agent murders, the governments murder 10,000 in genocides & ethnic cleansing. This does not even include wars which are a racket according to General Smedly Butler. The people in power use deception and false flag acts of terror to get the nations to point their guns at each other. What is needed in this world is to identify the men with money power & motive and point our guns at them instead of each other. Find the Devil's agents and prosecute them. Then and only then we would be living in the best of all possible worlds.

John Piper and tongue sneaking seeker can't hold water for Doug Wilson

Hey Piper, I don't care what you "think" -- what does Scripture actually say? Wilson is not qualified to give any coherent argument.

Are you folks serious about this stuff? Or is this like a 'Lord of the Rings" / "Harry Potter" thing?

God became man just once, the incarnation. Now the living Word is once again, ONE with the Father in Spirit. (glorified, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent) In every discussion about the Godhead, everyone is thinking 3-dimensional, time and space. Try to think in terms of consciousness instead of location and see if it becomes much clearer. God is not sitting literally on a 3-dimentional throne. Those were visions to help us conceive the infinite and divine. Jesus does not really have a sword coming out of His mouth, and He does not wear a rob He drenched in blood, and no tattoo on His thigh saying, “the word of God.” 1 Timothy 6:14-16 (NKJV) 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.