The indie game dev dream is real. Most people forget that the struggle is even more real

The problem in indie dev is not to make a game that people will like, but find people that will like your game

“Start living your life like it’s a RPG” Time to clip into the void

The dream is real, but rushing to achieve it will destroy it entirely.

Indie game is mostly hard because you need to attract public and you need a lot of patience to finish your game

This is the collab I’ve never asked for but definitely needed, awesome!

If Jonas game dev career fails, he should become a journalist. Great interview!

I feel that a really important factor in this is having a stable income while also having the time to work on games for fun, don't expect to get a lot out of each game but someday one game will get attention

This was super interesting to watch! I usually don't listen to podcasts but if you made one, I'm in! Great job once again Jonas!

An interesting thing with this dream that you REALLY need: rest. Just rest, take a nap, a break. Otherwise you end up frustrated.

*_I guess he figured out that there's more money selling the dream than the dream itself...._* Tom's course is $600, the site intentionally doesn't seem to mention it in a straightforward way so you read all the stuff and get hyped up and uses a trust-building marketing tactic that bombards you with other people's testimonials to cue in those human socio psychological feelings of becoming soft to the idea, and that's a heavy sticker. Also, he's got a poster image on the site with 2 games with total $900k revenue grossing, but his course site states that he's got over 3k students in this course. That comes out to $1.8 million gross from the course. And even at the 800 students stated in this video, it was nearly $500k. Right now, it seems that he's made more money with his course than both his games combined. I don't think that there's much of any middleware taking cuts with the course so the ratio is probably even better. And who knows how old/accurate that number is, either way, not a good look to me.

The thing that makes me want to keep making games is the excitement of creating an awesome interactive story that someone else will enjoy. When I get tired of coding, making assets, or whatever I just think about the overall awesome idea I have for current and future projects and it keeps me going.

Thank you for showing me that I don't want to be a game developer.

This was a great interview. The part on personal branding I've been doing for like 2-3 years and man it a slog to try to post every day / every week and even when I was consistent and doing it, my growth was almost nothing. It's a devastating process emotionally

Ngl but for the whole time I felt like Thomas wanted to sell me something. I was instantly put off by it and I appreciated even more how honest and likeable Jonas is in his videos. So the upvote/like goes to you Jonas :D

No way! A 40 min Video! I can't wait to watch :D

6:34 THIS part is REALLY important to anyone that wants to be a gamedev, and I'm glad that Thomas Brush is so open about it. The reason all your favourite gamedevs are on youtube (or selling courses) is because they need a second revenue stream next to making games.

Gotta say, "Life is a massive RPG" is a pretty nice quote :D

Hard Truth : Selling a game is harder than making it. Thomas got a publisher but pinstripe still fails to meet his expectations.

Thomas Brush is all about "Oh i said we but I mean it's only me, coz I'm so lonely " "Oh I definetely hire people when I can coz i don't need to do things myself anymore" Yeah... such a genuine guy (no)

I like the animations throughout this! In fact, there was clearly a lot of effort put into editing for such a long video. Thanks a bunch Jonas!

It's real for people who realize they are competing against AAA games, and do the necessary work in product quality and marketing. Some luck always helps too

I love this video. listening to it in the background as I'm wrapping up a game for my first game jam. Thanks for taking the time to put this together!

been waiting for a Jonas video love ur content

Hey Jonas, hey Thomas, thank you so much for this video, it was really helpful. Espacially the social media part, since I'm uploading my first Beta in 1 and a half week and building an audience really helps!

This video turned out to be so much more insightful , helpful and surprisingly wholesome than I thought it would be . Thank you 😌

loved this so much, it’s beyond scary starting out and this just helps answer so many questions and build so much excitement

I have a new found respect and love for Thomas after watching this video, thank you so much! I feel super inspired and drivin!

I'm at the beginning of my game development career. I will return to this video so many times. So many valuable realizations. Thank you, both of you!

Think of this: Everything around you is a product. Look around you. The chair you are sitting on, the computer, the screws, cables and lights that makes them work... Someone is behind each of the products that you use every day. Someone made and sold that to you, and is selling that to others. The market is huge. There is a lot of space for people to sell a product. Your game is another one of those products. You need to make people see your product and that you help you sell it. Put it out there. Create an Instagram account... twitter, youtube... Use hashtags. Engage with other creators and your audience. Try stuff. Just keep searching for that thing that will make your product cool and unique. And be ready to fail and have people saying no to you. Only be stubborn when it comes to keep trying. Good luck!

Excellent discussion! Recently I have been struggling with this whole idea. In particular from watching this I realise that I care too much about myself. Of course there will be failures, of course not everyone will like me or my games - and that's okay. I need to stop wasting so much time procrastinating and get going! Your channel is one of the greatest resources for game devs. The videos are entertaining, informative and leave me feeling good afterwards. Thanks for all you have made, keep up the excellent work :]

Great to hear such an honest and open conversation between two developers, thank you!

The indie game dev dream IS real, it may be hard to achieve but anything worth getting to is hard to achieve.

hi jonas, I recently found your channel and I just wanted to say that you are one of the best game dev channels and you helped me a lot

But seriously, your talk with Thomas is such an important piece of advice/ information for any game developer. In fact, what you have talked about in the last part of the video applies to people's life in general. Thank you again.

Love these interviews! They give a lot of people new perspectives on game development which I think is amazing!

Its so cool that you got Thomas for this Topic! Two of my favorite game devs in one video!😄 (You see this Army thing works😂)

I'm crying right now. Thanks for this video, Jonas and Thomas, thanks!

Love this. So much good stuff on here! Thanks for putting this together.

This was a very pleasant listen. Thanks for the podcast. Hope you can do some more in the future! :)

What an awesome interview :) As someone living in an area where there are not that many game studios (Austria), I kinda have to be indie/move to another place it really inspires me to work even harder on my game to make it one day on my own. I also just wishlisted you game and will definitly check it out once its done :)

The dream is real, everyone can dream. Reality on the other hand can be pretty brutal. It's definitely possible, more so nowadays, to become an independent game dev and musician. The opportunities and resources independent people have are really great. You just have to work pretty hard and learn from your mistakes. If you don't notice your mistakes and aren't open to *constructive* criticism, then you don't really have a chance tbh. Remember that your first few public projects are more than likely going to be crap, absolutely CRAP. However, eventually you'll learn and see what works well and what doesn't. Then you'll probably make a decent income.

This is great. You can see how much effort Thomas Brush puts into the visuals when contrasted with Jinas Tyroller. Not to diss Jonas Tyroller, but look how Thomas is using colours, cameras angle, clothes. He is a great seller of himself. And it's very professional. Very marketable. So well done Thomas. I watched his videos earlier over the past 2 years, saw the lighting and how every video is edited, and I was like "dude loves himself too much". But maybe I understand him more now, as I understand myself more. I think I've accepted that people skills are directed down avenues. Wheras most game devs would like to stay in the back ground and let thier games do the talking, some other people take thier creative endeavours into the whole enghilada. Someone like me, who is FukUgly would ofcourse like to stay of the screen, but someone who is presentable, and looks above average, and has a heavy interest in art, of course , should maximise it.

Thank you both Jonas and Thomas for this really well made interview! 💪😁🎉 So inspiring learning from the both of you. 😍

Very very insightful, thank you for making this Jonas and Thomas. I wish you all a merry Christmas and all the best!

love these types of videos you make! Keep up the good work

I remember when I first started game development, I went to Jonas and asked him to do blender videos 😅😂

This is such a great interview. Love both you guys!

This is a really great video, thank you! That was what tipped the scale for me to buy the course.

Thanks for doing / posting this interview. Really appreciate all of the comments and I think this at least confirms for me that I don't want to be that style of game developer. The marketing / social media side of things really puts me off. I am a full-time non-game dev and that's fine for me. Also, single player games are not my thing, either to play or to develop. I have created a game before for Android and it was a really valuable experience but not a financially profitable one. I have also made an online multiplayer game and that was loads of fun, still not financially profitable (but was not intended to be). I like making these style of games just for the pleasure of building something and having other people enjoy it. But these will never lead to a full-time-game-dev career - and this video helped to clarify that for me. Thank you. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on whether it's feasible to succeed financially with an online MMO that is either subscription-based or contains microtransactions (say for cosmetic items - really hate pay-to-win so I'd never make anything like that) or similar. Not yet sure if I want to take that route but I am confident I have the technical skills to do it. I do struggle with marketing so I'd be leaning heavily towards outsourcing that part or partnering with someone.

"the problem is not how to make games , the problem is to find people who like your game"

I’m so glad I found this right now. I needed this and it is such an inspiration to me. Time to work harder and dedicate more time to learning.

Very informative and well edited video Jonas and Thomas! Love you guys's vids

Damn, the part where you talked about detaching your identity from game development was a huge eye opener for me. Because up until this point, I was pretty much Mr. Game Developer. Like daaamn. If I hadn’t heard that, I’d probably get crippling depression in the future. It’s kinda difficult though, because I want to be passionate about what I create so my games aren’t soulless. But at the same, I don’t want crippling depression if my games flop. I think what I’ll do is start going to the gym more often, because being swole would be badass. That’ll be my backup personality so to speak.

Its awesome how this conversation about game dev translates nicely to almost every other hobby/profession (sports, music, or even stocktrading...)

Its so fun and wholesome to see game dev youtubers doing a collab to help us aspiring game developers

Never seen a content like this. Built to make you feel like you can do it. It gives you hope. This is the best content that I watched ever. Such inspiring content. Makes me wanna try again once I purchase a laptop. My previous computer broke once, and it's incredibly old. It had a 32bit OS, I could barely use Unity 5. I forgot a few practices from past in coding but I am getting it all back together and improve my skills. I am practicing more stuff in C# and once I am ready, I want to at least _actually_ succeed. Thank you for making this content for everyone including me that's interested in Indie Game Development.

Nice information, thanks to Thomas, and thanks to Jonas for preparing the nice questions

so far I'm on a really good path on my journey of being a game dev, idk if I wanna be indie yet but I'm on my way, I wish I could have a conversation with one of these guys or any game dev KZfaqr bc this inspired me even more and I wish I knew these guys personally also bc they seem like good mentors

Ich bin schon seit den GameMaker Tutorials von vor 8 Jahren am Start.. Schön zu sehen wie du dich entwickelt hast und gönne dir den Erfolg! PS: Du hast mal mein Spiel gespielt bei Lets Play eure Spiele :)

13:17 - Brush is absolutely right here. It's 100% possible to sell your game when you have no idea how to actually make games. Just look at Day of Dragons.

wonderful video man, I watched it fully. make more videos like this:)

Don't be nervous Jonas, your army is here for you! /salute O7

You guys helped me to make my decision a lot. I shall take less time taking a dump and spend more time doing my game. Thanks!

I have just realized this video was uploaded today lol, thanks for this information 🙏

I learnt so much in this video.... I quitted Gamedev 2 years ago, but i'm still an entrepreneur... And Thomas vision is so deep... It made me relativize so much my last weeks which were pretty hard.. It helps me so much. Thank you guys

Thanks for the informative video Jonas and Thomas. I hope I can go full time someday (I'm currently still in highschool), but even the 16 downloads my latest game got make me happy.

This is a great source of perspective. There is a lot to learn from the experiences discussed here. I think we all strive to achieve that "full-time indie developer success", but think little about what it would take to get there.

This is one of the best and most useful videos I have ever seen. Thank you.

Thank you very much It changed my perspective not only on indie game Dev but on life ❤️👍

Omg watching this wasnt just A truth revealed about Game Development, It was so much about Life too! Glad I decided to See this. Thanks Jonas!

What a beautiful early Christmas present. Great video Jonas!

Thanks for the video Jonas, it was really helpful!

I started learning gamdev....dropped it..stoped watching almost every gamedev youtuber but I watch your every single video Jonas and also dani's....you inspire me alot Jonas 😌💗 Thanks a lot ...... you're such a talented person......

Thank you guys! This was awesome.

So wise! Thank you, this was a pleasure to listen.

Thomas Bursh is straight up the bob ross of game dev. His voice is so calming in his tutorial videos.

Very interesting video. Thomas is great. But im still waiting for the next will you snail devlog. I love your game jonas!👌

I just spent 40mins listening to this and I thought it was a 10mis video 🤦🏽‍♂️ That's how engaging the content is. 🔥🔥

This was an amazing watch. A lot of interesting views hopefully it can help change some peoples lives.

We should make a game jam were the theme is "create a new flash player"

I think I was needing something like this...Thanks, Jonas, love your content, bro!! I always feel like I'm running on circles, I don't have an identity when it comes to game development, but I think I got a clue on where to focus, and the tips you two shared in this video are going to help me a lot!! Thanks again, you two made a great video!

Here on the 1 year anniversary by total accident! But I shared this with a discord of indies! Great advice!

Yay! My two favourites having a chat!

I know this vid is a bit old and first time me seeing it, I just want to add these 2 people are very good people and down to earth. Sometimes when people just start speaking and say about their exp you can tell they are good people. Thank you for this vid :)

One day, trust, won’t be easy, will be hard work, but one day

So much respect for Jonas, love his frank and honest questions and reflections. Integrity and honesty really matter. Especially loved the question about Thomas’s course. Really on point. I have Will You Snail on wish list and will be buying this no matter what.

What an amazing video jonas, thanks for the motivation xD

thank you. two awesome guys, living the dream

Hello love ur channel

I'm excited to see how much impact this video will have on my live...

I don't think it is all about money but about creating an art that shows something about you which may also outlive you. and thank you both for that video. :D

This was fun, learned so much from you guys thankies.

Great video, guys! Thanks for this

Hey this video was great and very inspiring! Thanks a lot!

"You're not defined by the people that define you" That might be his best quote, hope it sticks

I'm not gonna lie. This video just blew my mind. Even if I kinda knew all that stuff it still keeps another point of view open. Thank you

Hi Jonas I'm on the same boat, my first game didn't make it so good, and working on my second game. Is really hard, but it is true, is something that you have to want so hard in order to overcome lots of stuff and be an entrepreneur. Good interview and I agree with most of what Thomas said. It's not an easy journey

awesome video, just perfect timing

Very good video. I 100% agree with everything beeing said. I myself have a family (2kids) on my shoulders but on the other side i want to follow my dream. So i grind and grind to achieve it! I know i will fail, but i also know that i wont give up