I would like to thank Lord Sumption for voicing his opinion during the Covid debacle. His was a deeply valued message; one that helped me draw my own personal 'lines in the sand'. Thankyou.

Sumption did good work during the lockdown, thank you.

Great interview. Sumption has a clarity of communication that is rare.

This man is brilliant. He can draw from a vast reservoir of meticulous scholarly ideas and synthesize them in a poetic and concise way that is easy to understand.

Great conversation. Lord Sumption is wonderful speaker.

That was a great talk with a very interesting man. Thanks Freddie 😁

Well done Unherd. This conversation is a breathe of fresh air.

Thank you, Freddie - you are one of the few, decent journalists that we have.

What treat and a privilege to witness such a high level of wisdom and intelligence. Thank you.

Lord Sumption was the first to speak out publicly about the covid outrage. Many have followed, particularly Andrew Bridgen. Heroes one and all who will go down in history as such.

I love these interviews, I live in a country where such level of journalism and intelectual does not exist. But I often see a sort of romantic view of the totalitarianism. He says it will end when people would not like it anymore. Well, in my part of the world, central-eastern Europe, it took 45 years though nobody liked it and the gov did not have the sofisticated controls that can be put in placed today.

One of the few public speakers one doesn't hear enough from! Grateful to all involved

Such a wonderful conversation with a brilliant individual! Thank you Unheard for bringing Lord Sumption on. I was one of those many individuals who felt a sense of relief and gratitude that such an eminent historian had the same opinions on lockdowns

Lord Sumption is fascinating to listen to, informative, insightful and sensible - I am off to buy his books!

No, the reason Trump was elected was because the vast proportion of the people want the administrative state gone. The UK is naive to the degree to which decline will be destructive.

His thoughts are such a gift and blessing for public life and civil discourse! One of the best Unherd has done so far.

Thank's so much for this briliant talk I'm always astonished by the fact that all the concerns you might have in UK are exactly the same discussed here in France

Two observations. One, the EU may well not exist in the future. Two, during war, if one side disregards international law (e.g use a civilian shield) during the conflict, what is the otherside supposed to do, lose?

Comments on Trump, not a word about Biden?

Listening to Lord Sumption is sheer joy!!

Looking forward to this. If anyone's brutally interested in hard-core expertise on the history of violence, the Art of War and its influence in world history I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's videos series. Especially I suggest the Traditional religion content, that is at the end of the day pure strategy in political insight

what a great interview and Lord Sumption, what an articulate and intelligent man. Great history. thank you Freddie.

I had no idea that such a clever man would suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome

Superb choice of guests on this channel. Lord Sumption is always worth listening to even when I disagree with some of his conclusions. Ed: ‘The great destroyer of civil society is the disappointment of entrenched expectations’. The power of words!

Brilliant. Thank you both. Let's hope that you both keep wearing your invisible capes.

I would like to hear his own views of the Julian Assange case and the removal of Habeas Corpus from British Law. Those that are presently sitting seem to dismiss the case for Julian.

I like Lord Sumption but did anyone else notice how he avoided the intra-national/WEF question and the language he used to dismiss Donald Trump? I didn't like either.

Bit of a disappointment, to be honest. Arguing that we should leave the Human Rights convention because it is now abused by politicised judges (correct) but thinks it would be good to rejoin the EU (illogical)! Amazed that he even thinks the EU will still be in existence a few decades from now....

I didn't submit to any restrictions, I remember peter hitchens stating the same as lord sumption, that was it for me

What a difference between Lord Sumption and the Israeli foreign minister. Lord Sumption is like a feast for my brain.

The problem is that we no longer make a distinction between good me evil! All opinions seem to have the same equal powers! Our distance from Judie-Christian morals is what is causing this chaos! We fight evil but no longer can distinguish what evil is!

Thank you Lord Sumption you have been there for us from day 1 of the appalling lockdowns etc. You are a hero.

How anyone can even consider Joan of Arc /Greta Thunberg in the same thought really is a stretch of the imagination..

He is a great intellect but he is not always right in my humble opinion. Would love to see him in a discussion with David Starkey and Thomas Sowell. Freedom of speech and respect for the procedural disappears as different cultural attachments exist at number in the borders of a single state.

Augustine was discussing concepts of "just and unjust war" in tbe 4th century, and in the 7th Adomnán of Iona successfully promulgated the Lex Innocentium protecting non-combatants. Were these debates completely absent in the 14th century? Seems unlikely.

thank you, i enjoyed this conversation a lot.

It's always a real pleasure to listen to such high brow considerations as those of an ex supreme court judge.

Agree with lockdown comments, disagree with EU/rejoin comments.

Thank u Freddie really great rare occasions to view such intellectual discourses

Could have done with some discussion of the future impact of Islamic doctrine on the polity of the U.K. Given its large and growing presence. And its very anti the sorts of political economy which Lord Sumption et. al. (and me) support. He talks of immigration and the nation state, around 52 minutes, but without recognition that the current levels are mostly from cultures which are inimical our liberal principles and not given to becoming part of the local culture.

Congratulations to Lord sumption . He appears to have came out from the past three years , not only relatively emotionally unscathed but one might argue ,if as it appears albeit rather unintentionally , slightly richer but certainly in the his social profile does appear to have profited ( not unlike Jordan Peterson ) . I however , as a self employed carpenter still have to deal with conditions imposed upon myself by local councils and suppliers alike . Behaviour patterns amongst my immediate surroundings have now become ingrained and those that were once willing to completely deny me ( this being the socialist superstate that calls itself liverpool ) of my livelihood, now continue to act as if such a tragedy never happened.

Have always been impressed by Lord Sumption on Lockdown & many other subjects. However I felt regarding the discussion about recent protests here regarding events in Palestine & Israel a sense of disappointment at the limited time given to such a matter of grave concern for both sides.

Sumption in his support for withdrawing from the EHCR effectively undermines his support for the UK remaining in and returning to the EU. Particular EU rules and regs were never the problem in and of themselves. It was where they were made, who made them on whose behalf and how ultimately accountable to an electorate they were. The ECHR charter he says he 100% agrees with is basically a load of unelected, unaccountable, essentially anonymous judges constantly reinterpreting and adding to a preagreed by its signatories set of established principles ie not necessarily upholding them. Like the EU, it's classic mission creep whereby an institution is constantly seeking to find ways of consolidating and/or extending its powers for its own self-serving reasons. This contradiction is further undermined by his view on being opposed to having a one size fits all pandemic policy legally imposed by a supranational body like the WHO.

A more flexible constitution might soften the impact of decline in America. But it is in large part thanks to America's inflexible contitution that it has excelled in absolute and relative terms during its 250 year history. It is a brilliant product of The Founders that recognizes inaliable rights. It is a not a "fair weather contitution." It is one that says that human rights cannot be disregarded for reasons of convenience. It is designed to keep the tyrants at bay. Lord Sumption should appreciate more than most why that is crucial.

Basically we have advanced with amazing technology over the last century but in reality we still have a dark age mentality. Sadly, looking around, I see nothing in the world that challenges that view of modern society.

What a SPLENDID video - thank you.

I think Lord Sumption has made some very good points regarding lockdowns.

Erudite and worthy of our attention in so many fields that affect us all.

I wish there was time to ask him about the expansion of ULEZx. Is it really the expansion of the medievalist City of London CO’s jurisdiction? Is it that the 1 square mile became too small and new forms of revenue were needed? I’m curious.

Very interesting erudite man. A joy to listen to.

Enjoyable informed educational discussuion. I struggle with the audience laughter. I feel it spoils the earnestness of the conversation

What a wonderful converation by lord Sumption really great

Well spoken and entertaining to listen to. However, too Anglocentric. I'm surprised to hear that he thinks UK could have influenced EU to be less federalist and he does not recognize that EU is on a downward trajectory. The bureaucratic EU cannot operate well during non-peacetimes, talk about a "fair weather" institution. The US is far more robust and flexible than he gives credit. It has survived through more than just the 1930s and 1860s. More importantly, the US unlike UK has not even come close to maximizing its natural resources.

This man. A hero of our times. Thank you Sir.

Great interview Freddie… interesting points of view Jonathan Sumption!!!

Surely not right about this - that the British boundary, for security purposes, is on the Rhine was comprehensively disproved in the Wars of the Spanish Succession, the Napoleonic war, the First world war and Hitler's War. It may well have been in the mediaeval period. Also British foreign policy sensible? How can that be right? The preservation of the Empire by any possible means was driven by greed, it led to many disastrous events, not least the First World War, it failed catastrophically, and can be seen in retrospect to be entirely bankrupt and illusory.

Always a pleasure to listen to Lord Sumption. In a previous interview, believe he mentioned something alone the line of his relative suffering a decline in dementia due to closures on theatre and life, etc. Wish you had asked him on some of his difficult judicial decisions in his career. 😊 Although there's people saying that he didn't say anything new, find Lord Sumption's views largely of a reasonable nature. Thanks. X

I might have misunderstood this but did not Sumption say that, it is illegal to support Hamas but not illegal to support the cause that they support? Seems odd

Lives in a different world.

How is it possible to engage with his thoughts and not node with a cheerful agreement “or not in some cases” and not respect him. Lord Sumption Is Uk intellectual most venerated and much needed voice among us . Thank you sir for your service.

According to Lord Sumption, we're really up the junction.

He presumes that EU will still exist in the coming decades. Interesting. And his comment about supra-national forces is surprising, given the audacity & power of WHO, WEF & UN this decade.

Riveting and informative, thank you both.

I would want to know why mr Sumption is so adamant against trump. In terms of domestic and foreign USA policies Not re some really awful speeches especially first part of his term

Lord Sumpton is an amazing human

Rare to get such good questions from an audience. Made the Q&A section much better than the interview section. Kudos.

The US (and the West) need to regain pride in wealth creation. That's Manufacturing and, yes, STEM subjects. Without that, the Arts and Humanities will wither, and the politicians' levers of power will be sticks in the ground. :)

Great interview!

M'lud, please switch from the 100 years war to the middle east from 1917 (the Balfour Declaration).

I agree with Lord Sumption about so much but I'm puzzled by his attitude to the EU. There's a section of the population, all of similar age and educational background to Lord Sumption, and most of them retired public servants, who talk endlessly about the need to be in the EU to defend "our influence". This influence seems to be measured entirely in terms of our ability to keep France and Germany from getting too close. Before Brexit we couldn't set our own rates of VAT, or our own employment laws, we were obliged to submit ourselves to the EU's draconian privacy regulations, not to mention those ridiculous cookies popups and attempts to meddle with daylight savings time. Were we still in, we would currently be shutting farms because of a wholly fabricated "nitrogen crisis". But at least we'd have all that influence.

Read his books, the first is one of the best histories I've read of many.

Listeners this isnt a popularity contest . His comments are ideas to consider, not react to.

Monstrous....well that was pure condescension. Too bad some people have to please the crowd.

The last point was fascinating - constotutional flexibility as a key to navigating decline.

An impressive communicater,his view are always clearly and engagingly expressed .with a rationale that i agree with mostly

A meeting of like-minded independent thinkers.

1:01:26 - Q : 1:01:46 - A : 1:02:00 - Q : 1:02:27 - A : A fair weather 1:03:09 - Destroyer of Civil Society 1:03:41 - Rigid is not best to deal with long-term decline 1:04:01 - 1:04:30 - A much more flexible constitution

A privilege to hear a learned person like Lord Jonathan Sumption generously share his thoughts on a range of topics in a humble style. He gets my vote for influence at the National Trust. I now feel stimulated to read one if his books but am not ready for The Hundred Years tome so might try Pilgrimage. Thank you Jonathan and Freddie.

44:48 - Q & A 45:04 - Q : Common Good 45:20 - A : 47:07 - Q : Law making back to the State's? 48:15 - Legislative choice 48:58 - Dobbs problem

What a walking, talking (sitting, sipping, flamboyant) article , oracle of a guy.

44:00 "You can ask Jonathon anything". He is nearly as good as ChatGPT.

Great to see old Rowley Burkin QC still going strong.

I love this conversation . However I question if modern civilisation ( so to speak) has infact managed to live without fear and cohersiin . Let me explain myself to me and you :) …… brown black and working class people throughout the history of modern civilianisation have lived in line with the needs of the ruling civilisation due to both explicit ( Apartheid , zoning laws, laws aimed at certain ways of surviving or thriving, employment instability, class exclusion, hunger and probably others Im omitting) and implicit laws ( social mores , social acceptability, upward mobility or not) in various states of denied fear. That fear keeps people in line wether it is enacted overtly or implicitly and quietly. Either way it’s cohersive drive is felt and by some more than others. It has a further unconisous action on those who are not in any fear of contravening said laws and social mores , they see the instability of those who do not comply or fit in and they do not rock the systemic boat and even feel superior and justified in the instability that their own stability is mostly underpinned by. Because those who are unable to fit into or are subjugated for their cheap Labour etc blah blah blah and forced to do the majority of the work that keeps modern civilisation comfortable for the rest are constantly under the weight of an invisible but felt cogersion. Which is why often there’s a bit of a fuck the laws attitude in many sectors of society…… maybe? I love thinking but I know I’m not any form of scholar so …. Maybe ? Seems a good caveat to my instant and rudimentary thoughts and response to the lords assumption that mostly there has been no cohersion. Basically if you covered a minority you send a silent message to the rest no? The only difference with covid is everyone got to feel the force of fear as tool of control, in an unmasked and uncovered form.

Do we regard war as a catastrophe in modern times because it IS more of a catastrophe than in pre-modern times?

As an Irishman, Sumption's position on Brexit seems like that the ordinary British citizen should suck it & self sacrifice while the Lord Melchett types strategise about the power structures

There’s a substantial difference between J D’Arc and Greta. Greta works for and within the ‘Big City Co’.

Sure - he calls covid an overreaction - BUT if i remember correctly in another unherd interview... he was actually rather PRO vaccine passports... to the big Ooooohhhhs of anyone who heard him here. That never sat well with me.... and it would be interesting to hear whether his opinion on that has changed.

Put a photo of Lord Sumption in place of the caricature!

43:28 how is the EU ruling all of continental Europe any different to say Germany ruling continental Europe? It is delusional to think we ever “had a say”.

The Supreme Court should be abolished.

Well woupdnt you know know it. One person disliked it, hi Gretta!

Here's a ChatGPT summary: - Jonathan Sumption was a historian before becoming a lawyer and has written a definitive history of the 100 Years War. - He is the first justice of the Supreme Court to have been installed without ever having been a full-time judge. - Lord Sumption has been closely involved in the COVID experience and has stood up against what he perceived to be bad policy. - Volume 5 of his 100 Years War series was recently published. - War is crucial to the understanding of the creation of the state and human societies. - War was regarded as the norm in medieval societies and was seen as a reasonable thing to spend money on. - Joan of Arc was a 17-year-old peasant who reversed the course of the war in the space of a year. - Lord Sumption believes that nations are coming back and national self-interest is reasserting itself. - He believes that the liberal mood is receding and that we may see a more authoritarian style of government in the future. - Lord Sumption believes that the European Court of Human Rights has emancipated itself from the text of the European Convention on Human Rights. - He thinks that the Geneva Convention on Refugees was made for a different world and may no longer be fit for purpose. - Lord Sumption believes that the nation state is not inconsistent with high levels of migration. - He believes that the United States may see a major shift towards authoritarianism in the future due to its rigid constitution and decline in relative position in the world. - Lord Sumption is more optimistic about the UK's prospects due to its flexible constitution, but acknowledges that decline is still an uncomfortable experience.

These are fine interviews, but we need to hear from more people that are not from the ruling class mindset. They're always wishy-washy about everything, and ultimately arrive at these half-assed, unsubstantive conclusions.

He doesn't care about ordinary working people, if he wants to rejoin. He lives in a different world

58:04 - Q : 58:44 - A 1:00:06 -

Wonderful voice love his brainworks.

I really hope Jonathan writes his memoir

A man of intelligence refreshing to say the least

" Humanity doesn't change very much" . Is Johnny Sumption not only referring to humanity's penchant for war , or mankind's nature in general? Tech' progress is a given but that surely is a superficial irrelevance in this context. Note JS dodges the very real present possibility of nuclear annihilation of humanity !

At Paris the garnison had just received a reinforcement of english "crusaders" on theyr way to fight heretics in Bohemia.