Agree. They are explaining away things that match the painting.

He also is said to have had thick and very bushy eyebrows, no way would anyone in their right mind say that this man has thick eyebrows... AND he has curly hair, Joseph Smith III was adamant in 1910 that his dad didn't have curly hair, no artwork shows curly hair, but brushed "straight forward". Note, also the right side of Joseph's mouth comes up in a permanent smile, scars seem evident on the death mask, and the left corner droops, opposite on the death mask, and if they claim it's in the wrong perspective and flip the image... the furrow between the eyebrows is also then- on the wrong side (the painting shows the mouth matching the lopsided corners of the mouth and match). I did the analysis and it's not a match, but a CDV of a different individual is, and a paper is written...

Underlying bone structure tells the tale. Photo (P) man has a rather prominent brow ridge demarcated by a horizontal line and evidenced in 2D light/dark relief on the left side of his forehead. Death mask (M) shows JS's profile with virtually no brow ridge. P has a stronger, wider, more "masculine" mandible while M's lower jaw is proportionately smaller and more pointed at the chin and recedes quite severely in profile. P's overall facial shape is longish and rectangular while M's face is fuller at the center and heart-shaped. P's nasal bridge is uniformly thin while M's widens toward the tip. P's cheekbones are flatter, giving him a gaunter appearance while M's cheeks are full and prominent. Comparing the painted portrait: Virtually no one looking at this and then at the photo would say definitively that they are one and the same man. P's ears protrude significantly at the top & the earlobes appear to be attached while the portrait's ears give no hint of what is plain in the photo and the lobes appear to be free. Their eyebrows are shaped very differently, too. No competent portraitist would get such features so wrong. Also, the crease on the left glabella is a common feature seen in Caucasian men approaching middle age. The crease on the right is less evident likely because of the lighting angle so the feature in itself is not dispositive of anything. Dan Vogel is right re the upper lip tubercle. It is very evident in the death mask but not at all in the photo. Unlike Dan I am willing to say affirmatively that the daguerreotype is not of Joseph Smith.

Dan, I like your videos.

UPDATE- paper on photographs of Joseph Smith was published in Jan. 2023, in the "Anthropological Review", written by professional face identifier and Forensic Anthropologists Maciej Henneberg and Teghan Lucas. Real experts have been working on this subject, for YEARS and have been intent on publishing, so know that a much more thorough analysis will be published, by the actual scientists (who have previously been published MANY times already, and know what they are doing).

First person I thought of

Photos must have been taken. But do they still exist? My best bet is something in the LDS church archives they have hidden because it is unfavorable to Joseph smith in some way

@@grantbeck9228 have you listened to the interview?

@@debbieshrubb1222 Yes. Very impressive the effort they're going to, to be as certain as possible. But they are still going off artists conceptions. In a court of law, they'd shoot so many holes in their claim that the case would never make it to trial. Not trying to be negative but there has to be numerous photos of him. To think there isn't, is completely unreasonable. He was the most high profile figure in the hood. Always speaking, always in trouble, always doing, was the Mayor, the Prophet, the center of all the talk and commotion and debate. It's totally unreasonable to think there aren't several photos of him. Also, the two artists of the time, that actually drew him, showed him to be a round faced, round headed, no necked portly fellow. More like the image we used to see of him sitting at the table, translating the plates, while wearing the oversized glasses and wearing the breast plate and looking at the gold plates. The more recent artists conception of him have changed to making him look more rugged, more narrow waisted, more athletic, more chisel and knurled faced. Also, John Beadle, a reporter of the day, reported him as being round and soft looking. Nothing like our possible photo guy here. If all we had of him were the original artists drawings of him that were done at the time, this guy would never be picked out of the line-up by any one. I'm positive we have pics of him. I'm just as positive they are being hidden. Like the first vision account was, like the rock was.

@@samueljeppsen9785 do you think it is the church historians office with the seer stone?

@@Sayheybrother8 I'm absolutely positive Anthony. May feelings anyway. I feel that way because it's way to improbable that there are no pics of him. We have almost perfect paintings of George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc etc. And all the reproduction paintings of them, look like the originals. But nothing for Joseph and each painting of him, he gets more and more rugged and handsome with big muscular and chiseled hands. Even Jesus Christ's paintings don't change as much as Joseph Smith's do. And yet, the two artists that drew him while in person with him, show him as a round faced, round headed, no necked, portly fellow. So I don't know. But that's where the 1832 first vision was kept. It's interesting, that in the Church we love, in our very important and vital history, we have zippo, zero, nadda of a man so influential, an entire worldwide religion was started by him.

There's a link in the description to subscribe to the journal

@@MormonBookReviews thank you!

There is a link to the JWHA website in the description

I think he had something of an overbite, and a weak chin. If we look at his death mask and the side profile portraits

I always thought the Smith sons bore a strong resemblance to Emma, especially their eyes. I once read somewhere that sons receive more DNA from their mother and daughters more from their father. I have always been struck by how modern renditions of what Joseph may have looked like bear a strong resemblance to his niece through his brother Don Carlos Smith, Josephina Donna Smith, AKA Ina Coolbrith. I've often wondered if those artistic renditions were not based on photographs of Ina. If the DNA theory holds, Ina would have more of a resemblance to her father than her mother Agnes Coolbrith. Then there was that rumor that Joseph was Ina's actual father.

@@rainyapril178 I see a lot of Emma in her sons. I am seeing almost nothing in resemblance to this dag though. In every family there will be enough generic variation to reflect characteristics of both parents. I have looked at younger and older images. Nice insight on Ina, she was a very talented woman. Thank you

@@rainyapril178 All children get exactly one-half of their DNA from each parent. The ovum has one-half of the DNA needed to make a child, and the one particular sperm that wriggles into the ovum also contains exactly one-half of the DNA.

@@sleepycalico Yes, but what I am saying is that the father's DNA is many times the dominant for a daughter, vice versa for a son. You can observe this by how many times a son looks like his mother and the daughter is the image of her father. It appears the DNA dominance crosses over by sex. Going back to Ina Coolbrith: set her picture next to her mother's and see if they look anything alike.

@@rainyapril178 I had to google that. What a cool thing to learn about. What I am reading, though, is that the father's DNA is 60 percent more likely than the mother's to express itself, for both sons and daughters. Maybe the science on this is still evolving. Anyway, thank you! This is just fascinating.

I totally agree. I think the photo looks more like Hyrum’s death mask than joseph’s

How much damage was done to his face during his violent death? His nose in the portraits does match the photo, and a side view of the photo might look a lot different and match the mask better.

@@lilatueller but why would descendants of Joseph wear a picture of Hyrum, especially in light of the schism?

The slight chin is due to the death mask being taken while lying down.

There are no strong genes, as long as they're working it's perfectly fine. Everything more is wasted

Agreed, also is missing is a step deformity, Dr. Niles Herrod noted in 1995, along with missing the thick eyebrows seen in the artwork and said by many who knew him, the hair for sure is too thick and is CURLY, a trait is son contended with the Salt Lake Tribune about- sayign their artist Ramsey painted his dad with "Curly hair" and his Father "did not have curly hair".

I think he looks like his dad.

Thanks!

@@MormonBookReviews I am so excited by your work. Now that I have moved back to Lamoni, I am working as a volunteer docent at Liberty Hall, JS III's Lamoni home. I met Israel A. Smith and W. Wallace Smith, two of the Smith boys who lived there. History is a wonderful endeavor around which to build community. I hope our paths cross before long.

I wouldn't recommend posting to those subreddits, as they are either inactive (the first two) or largely anti-Mormon (the latter one). I would recommend instead r/latterdaysaints and r/lds, which are more popular

@@scottcox503 I appreciate the advice. I tried posting to others but for some reason the post didn't take at a couple of the ones you mention.

@@n.brucenelson5920 maybe they are reposts

Perhaps Hyrum Smith, his brother

Because... (what's the point of that comment)

It has no effect on the truth claims of Mormonism. It’s just an interesting historical artefact.

He probably didn't age well considering what seems like a very stressful life

I know they're good football players. Oh wait, that's Brigham Young. Sorry.

@@ericgutierrez2936 Very good, Eric. Steve was not bad, but he was no average Joe (wait for it!!)_Montana. He was a chicken-wing lefty, but he could sure run with the ball. Cheers (no alcohol, please!!).

Joseph’s ancestors were mostly English, with distant German and Scottish ancestors. Analysis of his DNA haplogroup indicates an Irish origin-but that would be very very ancient

Then you should stay off the internet. Because there is 'stuff' out there that might disturb your testimony.

I will be releasing a video tomorrow with a researcher who shows that it is most likely Joseph Smith

​@@MormonBookReviews I viewed it and must say it is very compelling evidence that it is Joseph. Thanks for a great and very detailed video.

I don't think so. He isn't grey-haired or wrinkled or anything. I have met 39-year-olds who look older than that.

And all of the other Branches of the Restoration!

Looks nothing like the death mask, either one or the other is not him

The best thing JS did was come back to Cathage.

Sadly Joe was a skilled conman….🔮

It's cute that you use Yeshua, since Joseph couldn't speak any ancient language and messed up a lot of ancient terms such as brother Raca, Jesus Christ the Messiah, Jehova or King Pharao.

@@charlesmendeley9823 as the title page from the gold plates states translated by a gentile

@@StevenRetz But he translated the Book of Mormon by putting his seer stone in a hat and reading off the perfect translation given to him by God word for word.

Why the heck would Joseph Smith's granddaughter, whose family stayed in Nauvoo, keep a photo of Hyrum Smith?

Lol

So they PAINTING would be more accurate...? I think you're letting emotion influence you if that is your reasoning. I bet you FEEL better about the LDS portrayal that Emma was Joseph's only wife as well.

@@thelastgoonie6555 No, i just think that as daguerreotypes go? I tilt toward the one revealed by S Michael Tracy as most likely the Prophet Joseph

awww....someone's mad about the Community of Christ upstaging the LDS church again. lol

@@thelastgoonie6555 not mad in the least. just using common sense. you might want to try it, instead of making asinine comments. there is zero evidence this is smith. it might be. it might not be. i don't care either way. but the simple fact is there is zero proof either way.

@@grayman7208 Mosiah chapter 8 lays out exactly how we can know. RMN is a Seer is he not? He even has the peep stone.

Joseph was downright ugly, in my opinion. The “photo” looks more human and better.

There wasn't room for everyone.

@@annwood6812 I mean like why wouldn’t we have a photo of Emma before Joseph’s death not like of them together.

No...Emma was his 23rd wife--and not even his favorite.

@@thelastgoonie6555 false. Emma was his one and only wife.

​@The Last Goonie she was his ONLY wife, as he and she said. Don't believe the lies

I just leaned back in my chair and said "daaaamn" your exactly right, I converted to the LDS church and was sold a bad bill of goods. im curious tho, are you talkng about COC or LDS church?

@@jessea2871 I am saying it as a former believer in LDS. COC seems to have a more nuanced attitude towards him, but I don't know that much about them.

@@senorbb2150 are you aware, I'm not 100% on this, that COC believes that Joseph wasn't a polygamist? That's a bit more than nuanced. There is a theory that BY started the whole thing and retroactively made Joseph out to be the one that restored the practice. I'm not entirely sure what COC position is.

If he'd really been a prophet we'd expect something like a perfect statue made from supergold, preserving an old semi-photo isn't very godly. So yeah he keeps being a disappointment, that's his real archetype ^_^

John C Bennett has been proven to be a liar.

You believe Bennett??? Over Joseph?

it is still a false church!!

@@hollayevladimiroff131 Don't go saying that out loud!

Then I guess Deseret Book should stop selling books by General Authorities

@@ningenJMK take it for what it’s worth. What Deseret Book does is of no concern of mine. I only know what the Lord has emphasized repeatedly in the Book of Mormon. I’m simply warning you. Consider yourself warned. Also, the general authorities don’t see a dime if they Money. It’s property of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

@@jasonjohnson2767 oh dear. Poor Jason. Doesn't know about Deutero-Isaiah

@@ningenJMK Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference April 1948 "There are those today who seem to take pride in disagreeing with the orthodox teachings of the Church and who present their own opinions which are at variance with the revealed truth. Some may be partially innocent in the matter; others are feeding their own egotism; and some seem to be deliberate. Men may think as they please, but they have no right to impose upon others their unorthodox views. Such persons should realize that their own souls are in jeopardy. The Lord said to us through the Prophet Joseph: ". . . teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel. And they shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them, and these shall be their teachings, as they shall be directed by the Spirit.. . . And if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach." (D&C 42:12-14) The great objective of all our work is to build character and increase faith in the lives of those whom we serve. If one cannot accept and teach the program of the Church in an orthodox way without reservations, he should not teach. It would be the part of honor to resign his position. Not only would he be dishonest and deceitful, but he is also actually under condemnation, for the Savior said that it were better that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he be cast into the sea than that he should lead astray doctrinally or betray the cause or give offense, destroying the faith of one of "these little ones" who believe in him. And remember that this means not only the small children, it includes even adults who believe and trust in God... The Savior also said: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matt. 10:28) In our own Society, the murderer who kills the body is hunted, imprisoned, and executed, but the character who kills the soul by implanting doubt and shattering faith is permitted not only to go free but also is often retained in high places. The body which is killed will rise again in the resurrection with little damage to its eternal welfare, but he whose faith has been shattered may suffer long ages before complete restoration of spiritual stature can be had, if at all."

The death mask was of a dead person. The body changes after death. Many death masks are taken while the subjects are living.

👌🏽

Joseph Smith was a freemason, that's true.

@@charlesmendeley9823 Not only a Freemason but a treasure digger, a shaman, and a conman….🤭😂.

It’s disappointing the article or a summary of it is not made available for free as part of the interview. As I said, it feels like a mark Hoffman scam.

You have just listened for free to a concise but thorough description of the provenance and analysis of the photo. If you want to know more then buy the journal. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

@@debbieshrubb1222 I’ll pass. I don’t believe the image is Joseph Smith.

@@Heartsinmelody I refuse to view the evidence - my mind's made up!

@@n.brucenelson5920 not at all, I’m simply not going to pay for the journal article. It will become free on the internet soon anyway. Then I’m happy to read it. I’ve listened to the arguments here, I am just not convinced it is JS. If it is great, but I won’t need to pay money to find out.

And the LDS church can afford it, having a shopping mall and hundreds of millions of dollars.

@@charlesmendeley9823 yes, but they will likely be careful now buying forgeries after what happened with Hofmann.

@@Heartsinmelody Both Mark Hoffman and the guy that filmed all temple ceremonies shows that spiritual discernment within the Church is a lie.

@@charlesmendeley9823 haha hardly. It shows that people are dishonest. It’s not a rule that God will always stop someone seeking to deceive, nor that some enter temples that shouldn’t - news flash, it happens. Not sure why you’d assume such a premise.