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Joss Whedon, Ray Fisher and What this all Means

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The Turnout

The Turnout

3 жыл бұрын

There's a lot to say about Joss Whedon. Ray Fisher added his two cents, and the flood gates opened. Thing is, all this news about Joss Whedon has affected me emotionally and has me rethinking the direction of the channel. Let's discuss it, and fair warning that it's a LOT.
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@TheTurnout
@TheTurnout 3 жыл бұрын
WATCH NEXT: Barry Allen, Forensic Scientist (the Ordinary Kind) | The Flash kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jbtom7B9nb6wc4E.html
@robynr810
@robynr810 3 жыл бұрын
The Slayer critical analysis video would be amazing honestly
@yedo8516
@yedo8516 3 жыл бұрын
I think this actually happens more often than we might think. I'm not sure if you're familiar with H.P. Lovecraft, but alot of horror writers give this man credit for changing the landscape of horror writing in general. To that extent, he's well-loved and admired despite living in general obscurity during the prime of his life. What people don't tend to talk about is the fact that Lovecraft was profoundly racist and sexist. And much of his best stories are rife with these elements of discrimination when it comes to the portrayal of minorities. So I guess, the question is, can you still enjoy the work if the creator is problematic? I know this is a topic that is glossed over when it comes to discussions of Lovecraft. His work has seen reemergence recently with games like Bloodborne, comics like Donny Cates's Venom and Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk, but no one ever talks about how racist the guy actually was. How do we reckon with Lovecraft's racist rhetoric but still honor his work? Even from a historical perspective, we still don't have a straight answer. I think this issue has also emerged with Harry Potter as well. J. K. Rowling has come under fire for anti LGBTQ remarks towards gender. I know that Harry Potter fans, especially from the LGBTQ, were left in a state of confusion as Rowling's work had empowered them, but the author's behavior and beliefs are in complete contrast to values upheld in the Harry Potter story. But there was emphasis from Harry Potter movie stars that it was still ok to appreciate Rowling's work, while recognizing that Rowling herself may not be as progressive as her writing led others to believe. I think what you're doing is a perfect response--in that you're giving acknowledgment and credit to what is actually going on and how people feel in response. And for fans who are actually hurt by the actions of the creator, I think that's the best thing that you could do. I wouldn't say bringing more attention to these shows is effectively giving support to Joss Whedon. In the case of Harry Potter, I think it's absolutely fine to still love the movies and books. The values in these books and movies are still very admirable. Regardless of Rowling's contributions to property, the Harry Potter continuity has taken a life of its own due to the love that its community has placed in it. I think the same can be said for works associated with Joss Whedon like Buffy. But it's an awful situation to reconcile if you're a fan of his work. I have a feeling we'll have more of these issues come to light as other properties probably have their share of repulsive and sordid history as well. These types of behavior just don't get reported.
@TheTurnout
@TheTurnout 3 жыл бұрын
what you're saying making a lot of sense, which is why I'm - if nothing else- taking a break from Joss-related content. But reconciling it all is definitely difficult. It is much harder to deal with creators who are still here. HP Lovecraft has the benefit of "being from a different time) and most people today are able to do similar to what I said. Take the pieces they like and discard the rest that don't fit in with how the world is now. But with Joss (and JK) still being around, it becomes a question of how much support you want to give to a terrible person. Joss already has a lot of my money, but do I want to give him more? Not if he is breaking people to make good art. It's very 1989 Joker in a way, you know. In the end, though, I have no real answers. I'm just hoping people can glean anything helpful from my video to navigate this issue themselves. I feel like it’s going to be a personal choice each of us has to make for ourselves
@yedo8516
@yedo8516 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheTurnout I think that's the best you can do in a situation like this--which is provide another perspective. A lot of fans in this position could use your insight to process these allegations. But it's as you say, it'll be up to each individual person how to move forward.
@MrHootiedean
@MrHootiedean 3 жыл бұрын
Joss may be a terrible person, (I'm not defending him but we've never heard his side of the story) but he is a great writer. In this day and age, (and probably always) we have to separate the art from the artist. I wonder if Age of Ultron and Justice League were bigger successes both critically and financially would he still be cancelled? Btw, Josstice League is the far superior version and it hurts to say that as someone who loves MOS and BvS. In fact, Joss should be applauded for turning that shambling, ugly mess into something watchable and making it seem like Gal Gadot can act. But he's an asshole. He's also a brilliant mind with a wicked cutting sense of humor and an artist fiercely protective of his art. Since Joss peaked with the Buffyverse, I don't think fans have to stop enjoying or further exploring the rich lore he and his equally important collaborators out together. Joss is a terrible person. The stories about him have gone back decades now. But he created Buffy and Angel and cemented the MCU as a force in Hollywood and our lives. That doesn't make what he's done better, but it certainly doesn't hurt. #IStandWithRayFisher
@TheTurnout
@TheTurnout 3 жыл бұрын
I'm a proponent of separating art from the artist, but also knowing who the artist is really sheds light on some of the worst aspects of the things I love about his writing. All that said, it becomes a question of what you want to promote with your wallet. I wouldn't say he's Cancelled, I'd say that his years of abusive behavior have caught up with him and people aren't willing to abide by it no matter how good his writing is. And I’m kind of down with that
@MrHootiedean
@MrHootiedean 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheTurnout I hear you. It's definitely a personal decision. I just feel bad for the fans really wrestling with this. It's hard to see our heroes as human, even worse when that human is an asshole.
@madnessarcade7447
@madnessarcade7447 3 жыл бұрын
If I ever get around to finishing my novel would u consider publishing it I know it’s a big ask I’m not asking to be paid or anything I just do it for fun and I wanna see if people actually like it I’ve showed it to some who do but some isn’t alot
@TheTurnout
@TheTurnout 3 жыл бұрын
Sadly i publish games not novels. And you should definitely want to be paid to your work. 😂
@madnessarcade7447
@madnessarcade7447 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheTurnout oh missed that games part lmao 😂
@madnessarcade7447
@madnessarcade7447 3 жыл бұрын
While this stuff should be called out and addressed the negative energy does get tiring after it’s brought up so much No offense lol
@TheTurnout
@TheTurnout 3 жыл бұрын
no offense taken. I'm only bringing it up this one time and now I'm moving on. :)
@madnessarcade7447
@madnessarcade7447 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheTurnout that’s fair 👍
@gregtestagent
@gregtestagent 3 жыл бұрын
He has had a long history of trying to harm the careers of people who worked alongside him. That’s not worth any of the stuff he’s “created.” He’s a writing worm that ascended to director that couldn’t hack it when it came time to do big productions. He’s a liar, a self anointed male feminist savior that used that persona as a shield and a way to wriggle his veiled chauvinist bullshit into everything that he does.
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