First off I’m a 62 year old guy and have been Hot Rodding FORDS since I helped my Pop build his last 300hp Flathead. I’m not being an asshole here but I thought everyone knew that a stock 302 wasn’t compatible with 202/160 heads without flycutting the slugs. You learned a valuable lesson that you can pass on to others of your age/era and I gotta say Good Job in doing what had to be done! You just popped into my feed and I’m looking forward to seeing how your’Stang runs with the 185’s.

Just some friendly advice. Tighten head bolts from the center outwards. This ensures the only way that the head can warp is flat.

Man I applaud your bravery putting out this video with so little information. If you had only ordered 1.6 ratio rockers would have saved so much time and effort. Piston to valve clearance is a measurement based on lift at valve and duration of cam dwell at TDC and when the piston is traveling up and down in the bore. To be an information video cam information should be in the video. And measurements of the clay where it contacts. Love the car and the project but ask questions before jumping in if you want to avoid mistakes

Thanks for posting this. I'm doing some research on heads and this is something i didn't even think i would have to worry about. You're the man

Jovan I fly cutter one of my engines years ago for a 2.08 int. Valve. I looked around and found a flycutter that looks like a Valve with 6 carbibe cutter bits silver soldered to the head . You just put it in place of the Valve in your head and bolt on the head and mark the depth to cut and chuck it in drill and cut. Very fast and very clean.

AFR makes a 185 Enforcer small valve head w/1.90 intake valve size which requires NO flycutting and a separate 2.02 version which would require flycutting on a stock SBF 5.0 HO piston to obtain proper PTV clearance.

Thank you so much for all the new engine builders. It takes a real man to admit when he’s made a mistake. Obviously there’s a lot of talented people who knew all of this. But thousands of people who did not know this. And you just help them not to make the same mistake. Well done!!

Lindy tools makes an in-head piston cutter. They work great. Gives you the depth and radial clearance.

Don't worry, you did it right. Done this quite a few times. The amount of material removed from the pistons is very minimal, almost nothing! Great job.

Other problem with how you checked P-V clearance is you used hydraulic lifters and the Valvesprings that came on the heads, this will give you false measurements on P-V clearance and pushrod length, what I do is I’ll take the hydraulic lifter apart and install a solid shim under the pushrod seat so that it’s effectively a solid lifter just for the measuring process, hydraulic lifter with a good hydraulic roller spring will collapse skewing measurements fyi Something to think about for next time

Aside from the miscalculation on the valve diameter to valve relief cut into the piston, which you already caught- you're checking PTV clearance with an uncompressed head gasket. Some gaskets will give you uncompressed thickness, some won't. Easy way is to measure the thickness with a good quality caliper before you begin. You'll lose the clearance difference of uncompressed to compressed thickness. Example: you measure a gasket as .038" uncompressed and its stated compressed thickness is say .026". Your PTV clearance when you measure the thickness of the putty/ play doh/ whatever you need to subtract the .012" you'd lose after the gasket was installed and compressed. Make sense?

I used Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with 2.02/1.60 190cc. I had no problem with piston to valve clearance. Stock pistons stock bottom end. On my 93 Mustang GT. No where I found or read that said 2.02 intake valve are too big for stock 5.0 pistons.

Props for hanging in there and making it happen bro! What a job lol... Heads look sick though!

I was going to say this last video about the 2.02 valves. You NEED fly cut pistons with 2.02 valves. I don’t care what people say about running it and it working fine. No, you do it the right way

Hey there, I had this issue once before. I put nuts on the head bolts half way down and used the old head as a jig. I used a slightly larger valve to get the clearance I needed and glued coarse paper to the valve. I put the valve in the guide, the head on the nuts so I could see under head and let the valve touch the piston. I put a drill on the valve and with a gauge I spaced the drill chuck from the valve guide. Once the chuck touched the valve guide I had the desired cut depth. Looked factory.

They made a tool 20 years ago that made fly cutting pistons in the block a lot easier than a dremel and sandpaper.

I ran my stock shortblock 302 with promaxx 180’s. They’re 202 valves also. No fly cut needed. Worked flawless. I’m ready to see this thing hit the track!

Stock pistons done work well with 2.02 1.60 valves. Double check the 1.72 roller rockers with the cam your using as well it makes the lift higher

That's it Use your Head and use whatever You have available and do it properly on a strict budget and do it right . Looks really good Thanks for the update . 🇺🇲🇵🇷🦊👍

It's always something. That's why trick flow tw heads are the only 2.02 head you can use with a bigger cam

Knotching pistons like you did is just old hot rodder stuff. Way back in the 80’s NHRA didn’t allow modifying piston tops,BUT if the valve happened to hit the piston ,well, that was ok. I watched and maybe helped a racer create piston to valve clearance in tech(!) with inspectors there with an old valve and a hammer! The old “valve” was a piece of machined tool steel that fit the valve guide and was the exact diameter of the stock valve.

Way to get in there and make it happen! It should definitely be worth the hassle in the end.

Braze a piece of carbide to a valve and use it to cut reliefs deeper, old school trick that takes a bit of time, can only do two pistons at a time by bringing it to tdc, tape the gap between the piston and bore bolt down the head with cutter in the guide, make a witness mark on the valve about .025 from the guide, using a drill, cut the piston until you reach that mark, verify proper ptv clearance, all good, rinse and repeat for all the pistons

I think I would Re-check the pushrod length to make sure it didn’t change from the head gasket being compressed

I've seen before taking an old valve and cut the valve so it looks like a cutter that's pretty straight forward slide it all together and hook a drill to the valve stem spin with light down pressure. Obviously using some method of restricting the depth is mandatory for accuracy. A coller with a set screw would be a good method. I'd think going to a slightly larger valve than your using such a a 2.05 if heads use a 2.02 valve. Most likely don't have a spare 2.05 valve so stop in a local speed shops they would probably have n an old unusable valve they had kicking around n give to you, it would work fine for this application,worst case scenario buy one cheap valve online, budget valves are just few bucks for just each and only need 1, that's probably the easiest way to get your hands on a valve. Also to avoid any shavings getting down in by the ring put the correct sized string in the gap and vacuum out the metal before removing the string get it as clean as possible but any residue that may get left will blow out exhaust aluminum is soft it shouldn't cause any damage but change the oil a couple of times for a good cheap measure.

Use modeling clay instead of Playdough. Playdough springs back a small amount and can give bad readings when you throw a caliper on it...I spread a thin film of oil on the valves so it releases easier, again making a clean reading.

few things, and don't take it the wrong way. just trying to provide info to learn from. 1. when setting that valve lash, you spin with 1 hand and snug with the other. 0 lash isn't when you can't spin anymore. its when you feel resistance on the push rod. 2. for anyone ever doing piston/cylinder work like this, use grease around the piston edge to prevent shavings from going between cylinder wall/piston. wipe/vacuum out when finished. also coat cylinder walls with grease if you ever have to leave the engine open again like that. then wipe away before reassembly. 3. you keep saying "flycut" the pistons. that's not fly cutting.. they sell flycutting tools to use, but you'd have to pull the valve out of the cylinder head. what you did was clearance with a burr tool which is far from machinist accuracy. its on factory pistons so no biggie other than your engine may be slightly out of balance now. but as long as you had clearance requirement met which is 0.080" intake and 0.100" exhaust, you would have been fine.. valve relief doesn't have to match. i run a TFS head on flat top, non-TFS pistons with about a .525 lift. reliefs don't match, but i have clearance so it's fine.

Sorry about your problems man. This is something I was worried about on my 351

I like using the copper spray on as much gaskets as possible. I think its really good additive for your head gaskets.

I have 202 valves in my edlerbrock heads and had to get my pistons flycut. This was years ago and it’s still good to go.

This is why I used TFS heads. However, not bad, for a driveway mechanic. Good to see the progress, hermanito.

you might not have to have flycut those pistons at all. I didn't see you measure the thickness of the clay? All you need is between 80 and 100 thousanths of an inch of clearance. I saw you already have it running so props for being careful.

I had the same problem went to my local machine shop had cutters braised on a pair of valves and set the depth with a stop collar and feeler Guage worked great

There's a guy in Illinois sales the tools to fly-cut piston. The look like valves with cutting blades on them and they go in your old heads and run off a drill. I do them all the time

Just ordered the afr 205 race heads can’t wait, just add a little valve relief to the piston it’s ok to do it a lot of people do it you have mechanical skills I’m sure you’ll end up just fine

Are those.040 over pistons? Looks like they have that stamped on them, so they’re not stock? Just wondering.

Wow so glad I watched this I'm going borrow afr 185s and install on stock kcode 289 till my 331 is finished. Long story on kcode but now not going thru trouble of swapping heads because not cutting pistons. The motor from another project. Wanted to see how 271 hp 289 would run only swapping heads

Before i finish the video I see whats about to happen stock pistons with 185 but I know you figured this out by now. Love the way the car turned out

I hope you dont intend on putting any substantial amount of boost, ask Richard Holdner how "flycutting" the stock pistons in his boosted sbf went

None of you asked him if he was checking valve to piston with a solid or solid roller lifter that plunger in that liter going to compress round .060 to .125 if it’s a hydraulic roller lifter same goes for a flat tappet

AFR makes a renegade 165cc head designed to run with stock pistons. Just FYI. They also flow more than the 185 and forcers. As far as flow. They sit between the 185 and forcers and the 185 renegades CNC.

This is why the twisted Wedge design works so well with stock bottom ends

You can run the 2.02 with out notching pistons only purpose is if your running a big cam with a lot of duration we run 2.02 with x303 and a 2.02 with trickflow stage 2

Good content man 👍 I'm subscribed, that doesn't happen often.

I did not hear if this was a hydraulic lifter or solid lifter engine but these checks should be made with a solid lifter to ensure the lifter isn’t bleeding off during the check. I’d also use a compressed gasket although that isn’t as bad as a hydraulic lifter bleeding down and telling lies. If you’re using a solid lifter variant in your application be sure and check with zero lash, but know that the lash you input will add clearance between this piston and valve. Above all else I would advocate learning to use the degree wheel and dial indicators to make these checks at 10 degrees before top dead center and 10 degrees after top dead center DURING THE OVERLAP cycle that is actually 180 from true tdc.

Mrs. Parker sure is looking good. Keep them videos coming and keep up the good work sir

Hey Jovan, with the push rods adjustments, it’s not until the push rod doesn’t spin anymore, it’s to where you can’t push the pushrod up and down anymore

Edelbrock rpm performer are good for stock piston 1.60 - 1.90

I have the 220’s no fly cut .674 lift cam at valves stock pistons

TYhere is a better way than that You can buy a Cutter that goes through the Valve guide It is a lot more precise.

I feel like there's something else, only because I've contacted afr prior to purchase and confirmed with them that the 185s will bolt onto the stock ho engine with no interference, instead of deleting my comment from what I've gathered thru comments is that your running a bigger than alpha bet cam with 1.72s I see now.

Great stuff. Love your honesty!

Word of advice any 302 with stock pistons order a 1.90 or smaller head i run afrs that have 1.90s on my motor it has stock pistons and plenty of valve Clarence

The YT algorithm had me click this video. Way to go on the fly cutting. The only way to learn is to do it. 🤘

Please show ur shallow thin walled socket u use to take plugs out when headers are in with header studs

Dang....now they make enforcers with the 1.90 valves LOL they didn't at the time of the video. But my 302 I'm go in Ng forged DSS pistons and the 2.02 195s and a off the shelf Howards grind I've been eyeing...

To hell with balanced piston weight! Pull the engine and install 11:1 pistons designed for those valves with 1 mm ring package. Now how thick is that head gasket? Without proper quench distance you’re AFR combustion chambers are rendered useless. Quench distance 0.030”-0.040”. Get this set up properly and with the right cam make some power!

They make a small valve version of these heads that work with stock pistons.

If you went with 16 rockers instead of 172 you wouldn’t have not have needed to do that. Smaller lift less likely to touch. What are your cam specs?

Thanks for keeping it real. Don't worry about the haters!!! You did great keep it up

This was a common mod when these cars were new! Everyone I know fly cut a set at one time or another SEND IT

What was your final pushrod length, I ordered the same head and am going to do the same clearancing as you did but just a different method, please let me know bud!!!

You done great ! I got the same heads in as cast, a few variables, camshaft timing and piston type, incidentally your pistons look way down the bore @ TDC ? I checked mine twice sacrificing a head gasket bolted down to torque and it just touched the inlet valve pocket area but well inside my larger cut outs, I’m running a mild flat tappet street cam and I like solid lifters, motor was not in the car and I have a small milling machine but I’d have done exactly what you did and used a dremmel 👍

I realize this is 1 year late, but if you were to use the stock 1.6 or even 1.65 ratio rockers instead of a 1.72 ratio, you would be fine. Also, a little more clay would have been a good idea especially since you only went to 0 lash and did not preload the lifters at all, nor did you use low pressure checking springs. All you did was compress the lifter plunger with those springs. Your measurements were way off. You also need to take in account the amount that the head gasket will compress when torqued.

Great video my friend keep up the good work

Nice video but let's understand something you didn't fly to anything fly cutting is done in a mill with a fly cutter it is clean and cuts clean chips I was an aerospace machinist and build plenty of hot rods in race motors what year did was Dremel them with a pouring tool not the same hopefully you got them all around and clearanced and it will run great but sandpaper I would never touch in a boar a deburring knife or Deborah tool is much safer you leave no grit to wear out your rings and cylinder

She wants you to work for that as oh wait she wants you to work for that HP. Lol Don't forget to paint the tops of those shocks looking a little rusty . Keep those great video coming

Definitely keep all important holes taped, especially in FL, lizards make homes outta empty holes quick lol. Ask me how I know. Don't know if your in central fl but if you are American motorsports in Orlando is a great for on the shelf s/bbf and Chevy motors and better prices than the national parts stores for gaskets and stuff like that.

I fly cut my flat top bbf pistons I run 10,000 rpm and no problem after 56 passes

Same for me. Shop had to cut pistons for proper ptv. Also could not use my existing cobra valve covers. Would not clear rockers even with baffle removed. Not even close. Had to buy tall covers. Any running videos of these heads?

They have AFR enforcer 185cc 63cc chamber 1.900 in. Diameter. Would they fit stock 5.0 pistons?

you know you can warp a aluminum head by Bolting one end down and not the other, Your taking a chance.

Keep em coming bro!! She's gonna be nasty

That's gonna be one we'll balanced engine

Damn brother I haven’t seen your vids in my feed in quite some time. The cars come so far my man. Fucking awesome. Gotta get myself going on my fox soon. You’re giving me the itch lmao

Trick flow is the answer to all your issues.

You should have kept the stock 1.6 rocker ratio and there would have been no issue . The 1.72 rockers increased valve lift . Or you could have ordered heads with the 194/160 valve package 2.02 intakes gain you nothing on a stock bottom end .

Hey great video..im sorry But what cam are you running

I am in Florida also Lake wales area. Got to see others on here.

I've done these SBF's for a while, I use Fel-pro gaskets, but I use copper spray gasket maker on head gaskets, the heads come off & clean up easier. you should've only had to grid the intakes relief. but you need to polish it when your done grinding, 400 grit? needed to go to 800 grit, Good Luck

why are the valve reliefs on the wrong side?

typically you do this procedure without the head gasket installed fyi

Good info , what serpentine belt are you using and what alternator bracket are you using ? I’m doing the same set up

I hate to be that guy… but you wouldn’t have that problem with trickflow heads… you can fit WAY bigger cams and not even be inside the valve pockets… I had this same problem with my AFR heads and i traded them for some TFS heads

They make a tool to cut the pistons.

Did you use solid roller lifters when you measured that, I have a couple of solid lifters just for that reason, Hydraulic lifters will collapse a tiny bit,

I had to do the same to mine. I also ended up using a little thicker head gaskets

So how have you been enjoying the 185s? If you had a chance to do it again would you go with a bigger head?

Did only check that one cylinder? Shouldn't you have to check all of them? I'm just curious, cool video thanks for the info

I always wondered what ''Fly Cutting'' the Pistons does to the Compression? Or if its even enough to matter?

Am I missing something, if the clearance is good after you turned the engine over through maximum lift. Why would you need to cut the pistons?

Thanks for the vid. I'm in the same as you. I want the AFR 185 heads but I was worried they wont clear the reliefs. Now I might cut them as you did with a dremel. What tool tip did you use, you remember? Did it work out. I dont want the 165s, I want the 185s and I dont give a shit about the bottom end. Run it til it blows.😀 Are peps saying 1.6 rockers would of cleared? I doubt that.

fantastic video..how are those Enforcer Heads working for you

Way to unbalance the rotating assembly. Nice.

Dude, I knew your problem when I saw the stock pistons. The 165 heads will work but not the 185. I have Probe forged flat-tops in my roller w/ huge reliefs to clear the 2.02 valve. A couple of tips- set zero lash on both valves w/ cam on lobe base. Looks like intake valve is on the ramp. Also fully torque the head in proper sequence to keep from warping it.

I’m not sure why you checked push rods with the old lifters if you were going to use new lifters

So My 302 is actually a 347 now. I went w the scat pistons and crank aka rotating assembly. These heads should be solid for those right? Assuming I’m .030 over stock?

It should never be a point where the valves are opened and piston is at the top. Compression stroke the valves are shut and exhaust stroke there’s a chance of it hitting but it shouldn’t….the piston should be heading straight downwards.

What cam are you running? Would 1.6 rockers clear the piston?

Watch the Pistons man I've done it many times