Well if the results of IMCF Spain and BLWC Prague are any indication, the teams that dominated the most all train lots of Judo so it's fair to say it works in armor and only makes you more dangerous. Many Judo techniques can be found in Ringen, but they are often less developed which may or may not be an issue, it depends so heavily on so many other variables at that point.

@@WarlordFlanker I do not think that the Ringen techniques are less developed. I think judo is more specialized in grapping to resistent clothes. Ringen is more for grapping arms, wrists, legs and the naked body. I think that the impression that Ringen is more primitive comes from the fact that there were also show basic techniques for turning or fixing the opponent and not only the complex throws that are also known in judo. The only thing Judo has more complex are foot sweeps. Wrestling, on the other hand, has more leg takedowns.

Very fascinating get more knowledge of Ringen, I intend to do some more research. I have seen those depictions of the techniques and was familiar with the fact that multiple cultures found ways of breaking down the structure and supports that hold up a warrior in order to topple them, I didn’t know the name or origin of Ringen though. I did judo and Jiu Jitsu before getting into armored combat. I’m saving for a suit of armor currently and am eager to train and learn more about armored grappling. Currently my peak interest.

DZUDO NOT YUUUDO thank you for the video. Why are you saying sometimes yudo and sometimes DZUDO. But still thank you for the video

@@markoldys I am German and there you call it yudo not dzudo

Love this comparison!

Nice to hear that you agree with me. I think that you dominated most of the opponents into hema when you get near to them. Most hema schools give a shit about Ringen. That's said!

Makes a massive difference, you're not wrong, many euro countries had their own moves etc via wrestling etc, techniques that worked, nearly every time.

Thanks.

Hammer them! Hammer them 😂

Thanks for your kind words!

Thanks. Your comments make me proud!

I will.

@@dequitem thank you. Just been watching lots of your videos. I am starting out in HEMA and am a fencer. Really enjoy your channel. I was talking about this subject the other day about how highely trained and how good Europeans was at hand to hand combat. Thank you again.

Thats very interessting, many of these examples are out of my knowlege.

@@dequitem yes, very strange, seemingly. but, we know that grappling in combat was always happening, so, when the only knives that we see depicted historically, were very long-bladed, slender-- we must assume that those were used successfully in grappling. i recently caught from a samurai-researcher, that for long periods, samurai did not carry tanto, but wakizashi and katana only. also, i must speculate that the shorter gladius was also used commonly in grappling by the legionaries.

@@barrysmith1202 a bigger rondeldagger was up to 50 cm long ;) that all fitting well in your thesises.

@@dequitem WOW! 16 blade''! yes; i started collecting web-shots of antique military-warrior knives a few years ago. i have dozens of different examples, from dozens of cultures, over hundreds of years, most of which have about 9-11'' blades. but, my main thesis is actually: 1) why, how, when, where-- did the universal blade-length of fighting knives shrink; and 2) the training went to saber-type duelling? 3) and probably the MAIN advantage of the longer blades is to stab the heart when grappling, from the ''peripheral entry points'', eg, the collar, armpit, waist-- whether armored or not. i have come across over a dozen examples of knife, sword, gunshot, wounds not being quickly disabling, except to the heart, which usually results in a total incapacitation in 10-15 seconds, as per many sources. similar for animals.

How do u like my answers?

@@dequitem I didn't know that judo came from jiu jiutsu, which in turn was used by Samurai fighters. Thus the circle of sword fighting and wrestling closes for me. in my initial imagination, formed through films and novels, l differentiated between armed and unarmed combat. On closer inspection, however, the dichotomy is obsolete. That's why I found the question interesting, and yes, I think that a higher level judoka in particular has an advantage in some fight configurations.

Вы совершенно правы, я планирую когда-нибудь сделать себе позднесредневековые турнирные доспехи с юбкой до колена, тогда я смогу сказать об этом больше. К сожалению, до этого еще очень далеко. Но я уже думаю, что борьба и дзюдо станут еще более важными, чем сейчас, с показанными доспехами!

I build the armor by my own, I did a few videos about making armor from titanium... But if you wanna buy some armor you have to look in the Buhurt shops. Like armors.pro by Pavel Burkalov, Medival Extrem, Lemberg Armory, World of Armor, Master Uley, Armor made by Andrey Galevskiy, Steel Mastery, Arma Fora...

@@dequitem Thank you very much, I will be sure to watch those videos!

You have an interesting KZfaq channel as well!

@@dequitem 👍👊

Daggers changing the game extremely

Leider sind das keine federn. Die drücken sich null durch. Jeder Stich ist ein blauer Fleck selbst bei Kette.

@@dequitem 😬 ok. Ja gut, die gehen auch an Stellen, wo leicht blaue Flecken entstehen und eben in die wenig geschützten Stellen der Rüstung. Wenn ich das richtig gesehen habe haben die Dolche abgerundete Spitzen, so wie bei Fechtfedern oder?

@@arvidgahsche516 jip wenigstens das. Kvetun-armoury.com stellt aber auch biegsam Dolche her. Aber die kann ich mir gerade nicht leisten.

👌👍 Vielen Dank für den Tipp.

No! But he had no chain mail!

Mayby one day I make a video about that, but for now, yes strikes can du damage, but it's not a big part in Ringen. The biggest focus is on grappling. Yes there are many sources about Kriegs-Ringen, with techniques how to break a neck, armes, wrists, punch the balls, break the lyrax and so on, and there are many counter techniques and takedown defences in the sources. I only show 2 in the video, but there are up to 20.

Obrigado 👍

I am sorry. Ich mache nur Ringen und Hema.

You're right, of course, a dagger is especially important. I have to disagree about onehanded maces. They are not as effective as everyone says. They are easier to defend against than stabbing weapons, and unless they have a sharp and pointy pick, they rarely do serious damage throw plate.Twohanded maces are another level the can even kill, when they dont pierce armore, but they are easier to block!

Klar, aber hengt davon ab wo du wohnst und ob du in Rüstung Buhurt oder in Sportgear HEMA machen willst.

@@dequitem hatte mir in Rüstung das ganze vorgestellt und wohne in Mitte Deutschland,Thüringen

@@jibsij3964 bei Mühlhausen trainiert eine Gruppe (glaube Ferox) Buhurt und Profight Duelle, in Erfurt gibt es Hemaleute, wo ich einen mit Rüstung in Erinnerung habe und Rudolstadt gibt es eine sehr gute Hemagruppe die auch Leute aufnimmt die an Harnischfechten Interesse haben aber haben ihren Hauptfokus auf Hema.

@@dequitem oha genial danke

After?

@@dequitem after the great samurai.

Nooooooooooooo...

我知道将柔术与摔跤进行比较会更好，但柔道更受欢迎，许多buhurtler学习柔道是为了装甲战斗。 我只选择柔道，因为都是标题党，摔跤和柔术更相似！

Where u waiting for that? 😁

Mayby you need a judo and BJJ black belt to be equally trained like a knight with Ringen.

No no no, that's a weapon! There were harnesses, wich were bulletproof against muscets.

@@dequitem I assume you knew what I meant I accidentally didn't say historical... it was just a joke because modern armor is made for a different kind of combat

@@dinkelheit88 i know and i laughed about your joke!

you're shooting at a tank, that there is made out of hard steel and a bullet would only dent it a little, not to mention layers of chainmail and padding underneath!

@@PJ183 is this sarcasm I can't tell

Novgorod. 😉

I am pleased that you respond to my provocative statement. It was meant to be provocative, but I stand by what I said. It is true that one cannot say in general that all armaments of a thousand-year epoch and numerous countries are superior to another region, but if one takes the most outstanding examples of both epochs, I would put my horse on the European armaments and claim that I am not much less agile in it am and could just as well shoot a bow with it.

​@@dequitemim not saying that any one of them is superier or imperier to a nother its just persolan perferwnce and both have theire advantegace, and i respect youre choice,i would were samurai armor cuss i still think u can move just a little bit better and see better and use bow more efectively(u can use european armor for bow usegae and was used but samurai armor is more addaped for that perpess)but i love both armors my favorate and world 2 storngest warriors

While they may look similar in some aspects, in function they are quite different. Samurai armor was created for a rather different purpose than knight armor, that being specializing in horse archery, as you mention. Whereas knight armor was made for a class of heavy cavalry soldiers, made for intense melee combat both on and off the horse. If we were to take a 15th century samurai and knight and pitch them in a battle on horseback, with the samurai wielding his armor and yumi bow and the knight in his plate and a longbow, the samurai would come out on top in more cases than one. Alternatively, if we give them both spears or pitch them on foot with longsword and katana, the knight would likely be victorious as well. The difference would be even more severe with 12th century armor, as the samurai's armor was extremely heavy and boxy, fit only for horseback and extremely specialized in that role, giving him a massive advantage with horseback archery but leaving him woefully vulnerable to the mailed knight on foot who may be less protected against arrows but clearly superior in melee. As we move closer and farther into the gunpowder age, the traits of armor start to become more similar and specialized towards a different role. Many models of 16th century samurai armor begins to resemble European cuirass as firearms become ubiquitous on the battlefield, and eventually mail armor is left behind in Europe. In short, a samurai with his armor could not win against a European knight in European combat, but that same knight may very well lose against the samurai being forced into his method of fighting. If both parties are free to use their own styles of combat, than the victor would rest entirely on who is better strategically minded to maneuver the enemy into a position in which they must fight in unfavorable circumstances. Would the samurai shoot the knight off his horse first, or will the knight find a way to close the distance and seal the kill?

@@punic4045this has been one of the best put answers to this kind of questions! Well done! I must add though that Japanese warfare only revolves around horse archery from the 11th-late 13th century. After that point, though bows are still the predominant weapon, they were used mainly by foot soldiers (on foot of course hahah) and samurai shifted to a more shock troop role. Heavy infantry/cavalry (depending on the region, flatter areas used cavalry vs mountainous ones fought on foot). This is reflected in the changes in armor during the nanbokuchou as it became lighter and more tight fitting, even though it was still meant for cavalry. It went through many changes. The ones closest in function is probably the late 16th century armor of eastern Japan, being mostly large plates and used on horseback. Nonetheless great answer!

That was Ringen too. 😉

@@dequitem thx for the Replie ^^ that is good to know, i was not sure anymore

Look on wiktenauer: Paulus Hector Mair...

it really shakes me to my core seeing a dude say that medieval knights (brutal killas, OGs of the medieval times) "UsEd JuDo" i have practiced martial arts since i was a little boy 5 years old or so, no, im not a big time man beater, but, if i know one thing, is that Judo is by far, at the lowest rank of martial arts, it loses to aikido though.

I never say anything like this in my video. I never call judo effective or that samurai do judo. I say that it is based on them and it's always good to know more but in the end I call that knights already knew everything from judo or that a samurai would know.

@@dequitem yes, and my problem is the word "JUDO" that is what makes me "angry" and made me type all this comment lol, (sorry, i sincerely dont even know why i wrote all thsi down) the thign is, as ive said, i have done MUCH of martial arts in my life, and i just cant STAND the word "judo" if you said wrestling, throws, whatever man, grabbing techniques, id be non responsive, but the word judo, just really gives me the thing. You can get white belts in jiu jitsu to DEMOLISH judo practitioners that have done it for years, and also, judo practitioners are PATHETIC all the way until brown or black belt, like, legit, they arent even good in their own sport, until they are brown or black, and even then, they are still ridiculous.

@@thomaskunz3089 judo is the most known martial art in wrestling and many buhurtfighters train judo to get better. The whole idea of the video was to call them to Ringen!

@@dequitem ?? WRESTLING and Judo are two different things man, im not getting you now, Judo is a japanese martial art created by a weakling who couldnt do Jiu jitsu, becus he was physically weaker than most practitioners and his technique sucked, so he created a whole different sport, with a different rule set, so he could, idk, teach people lessons and make money. What he did was just extract a bunch of stuff he liked, and throw away a bunch of other stuff he didnt like and didnt want to be caught with. Unfortunately men started putting their kids in Judo schools instead of wrestling ones, and then the kids grew soft. Take a look, in anny video in youtube you can find, and make the comparison yourself, and you tell me, what you think is more effective, even in a knights with armor fight, definitely wrestling instead of judo. makes a lot more sense going for a double leg or a single leg, than trying to hip throw somebody in full armor.

OK. But how would you call this video?

@@dequitemsomething like ‘Judo overlaps with knightly training! Direct comparisons!’

Also at that time, it would be jujitsu, original not bun of course. Judo is the sport form of jujitsu, which you most likely know but should address right off and move to jujitsu as your main term.

@@hanahill6350 and no one (you too) would have an interest in watching the video. As well your title overlaps with my title. Jujutsu isn't a sport that many people train to get better in Hema or Buhurt, but judo!

@@dequitem yeah they would. And it wouldn’t be misleading or clickbait.

I didn't know the word in German. What does it mean for you?

@@dequitem Hallo, ich hatte schon gestern geantwortet, aber ich hatte einen Link eingefügt, was wohl dazu geführt hat, dass der Kommentar gelöscht wurde.

@@tusk70 oh. Mir wurde nichts zur Überprüfung gezeigt. Was hattest du außer dem Link gesendet?

@@dequitem Hallo nochmal. Ich hatte Dir gerade ausführlich geantwortet aber KZfaq scheint aktuell ein persönliches Problem mit mir zu haben. Der Kommentar ist wieder weg. 🤨

An Uchi-Mata I have already used a few times, I am not particularly good at it because you have to give the leg a lot of momentum and I am often too much out of breath when you are then in close combat. A Tomonage I have never been able to use because you often do not have the flexibility for it and I do not get my opponent pulled down by the arms. this technique is also not used in wrestling in armor but only shown without.

@@dequitem I would really doubt you can do a real uchi mata in armor, you will not be able to ride your enemy up your hip i am sure you can do a half hearted toss over your leg. The main point is not the two specific techniques but the mere fact that there are specific wrestling techniques described for use in armor and these take into account the presence of plate armour, the normal knightly armaments and thus are superior to adapting a system created for unarmored sport without weapons wearing specialized clothing. Of course there are techniques that can be readily adapted but there are also techniques inherent to hema you could bother to master instead and i think you owe a demonstration that this path is inferior.

@@Sfourtytwo In my video I try to make it clear in several places that judo is intended for fighting in clothes and not for fighting in armor. I never said it was optimized for that. But with enough momentum I think this technique is possible. In general, however, I would say that wrestling is more specialized for European armor. That's why I train Ringen and not judo. I don't understand how you see a difference in your opinion and that of my video. I'm sorry that I didn't record a successful Ushimate, but maybe that will change in the future. In my video, however, I only show the similarities and do not claim that this technique is the most effective in armor. There are certainly more effective ones, but also simularitys between Ushimate and the two technics from Ringen.

@@dequitem Ok, i probably just am a bit triggered by the title. You see the question in my mind is would a knight be better fighter if he used his limited training time on judo instead of the eg gladiatoria or the fior di battaglia. Probably need to rewatch it after having a good nights sleep. ps so my answer would be : no he would be a worse knight and the fact that many hemaist good at wrestling today use non hema systems is owed to the tinyness of hema as a niche thebyouth of hema and the crazy focus on blossfechten longsword