Russian government: "We need a compact submachine gun that we can use for police work." Izmash: "So you want tiny AK, yes Comrade? Very well, we make tiny AK for tiny boolet."

I have a couple of things to say about this gun. While I do not own it myself, many of my friends do. In Russia this gun - as Saiga 9 - has been extensively used by IPSC shooters for PCC matches. In fact for a long time this was the only gun available on the russian market that suited the purpose. We have very few 9mm ARs and Kurbatov 9mm have only recently become available (I suppose you haven't yet heard of Kurbatov 9mm) and those at a high price. So russian IPSC shooters went the familiar path of customizing and fine-tuning one more AK for their purposes. This time - Saiga 9. What came to light was a major problem with the gun. As you can imagine sport shooters are capable of putting in an enormous roundcount and fast. In less then a year some of the first Saigas had many thousands of rounds put through them. It turned out that somewhere around 5000 rounds on average a nasty thing happens. The top right rail in the reciever on which the bolt carrier rides on gets cracked and then torn up. The ammount of speculations as to why it happens has been overwhelming. The Izhmash factory has never been known to be user friendly and too eager to help civilian shooters with their warranty claims. They tend to blame the user for anything that happens. But the common theory in the sports shooting community is that the bolt carrier has too much weight on top, making it unbalanced and when the gun cycles it doesn't ride directly back but also a little bit up, which applies torque to the rails. With time this force cracks the top right rail in the reciever. The gun will keep cycling even with this part of the rail cracked and torn but it is obviously unsafe. The factory at first said improper installation of aftermarket modifications such as custom handguards are to blame. Supposedly, users pressed out the trunion pin to do this and that led to improper headspacing. But then they themselves introduced a version of Saiga 9 with the same most popular sporting handguard from one of the leading local manufacturers installed from the factory. And the gun still had the same problem even when they did this themselves. For the army and police 5000 rounds is all they will ever shoot out of a gun in a lifetime. For an IPSC shooter this is a year of active training and the gun goes out the window. To cut it short. The solution has been finally introduced from both ends. On front end of the dust cover you can see three rivets. The middle one protrudes on the inside of the gun. The role of this rivet protruding on the inside of the gun is to be in contact with the bolt carrier preventing it from shifting upwards and tearing the reciever rail. Sports shooters started laser welding metal to the downside of the rivet until the contact with the bolt carrier was positive. A friend of mine @ivanrom did this to his gun which already has the reciever rail broken and the gun keeps working no problem. Some people drilled and tapped a hole in the dust cover and put a screw in instead of the pin so that they can adjust the downward pressure on the bolt carrier. The factory basically did the same thing adjusting the rivet. This will probably make the gun run a little longer. But it is still a so-so solution. So basically what I want you to check out if you own this gun is - does your dust cover have this rivet and does the bolt carrier positively contacts the rivet when the dust cover is closed? The rivet has to leave a scratch mark on the bolt carrier. Otherwise you're likely to run into the same problem after a few thousands of rounds. If you want to see how it looks check this video and on 5:08 you can clearly see what I am talking about - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a6p_frJ7q6e3eHk.html Here Saiga 9 is the cheapest option so many people just bought a new gun and didn't bother fixing it. I don't think this gun is so cheap in US. I hope Kalashnikov USA has properly introduced the same fix to their guns and I hope their quality control and warranty service are better than those of their russian colleagues. Good luck to you with this gun =).

drum mag + army = lot of troubles drum mag + civilian on shooting range = fun factor turn to 11

It's always nifty to see Russian firearms being talked about on this channel. Good looking gun aswell

Vityaz (витязь) means "hero, knight, man-at-arms" in Russian.

A reliable drum magazine is the "Better mousetrap" of the gun design world.

ian your camera work has improved so much over the years that old men like me can really see the internals thx so much, hope y'all are safe my day starts with you

Y'know, couple hundred years or a couple thousand years, down the line, there's going to be historians weeping with joy for having videos like this.

EDD mounted, let them come.

Gun Jesus is the best entertainments right now during quarantine I would like to say thanks for these awesome content in this difficulty time

Fun-fact: The are actually only 2 differences between the Vityaz and the semi-auto Saiga-9: 1. The notch for full-auto mode is missing 2. Saiga 9 has no full-auto trigger installed Here comes the interesting part. Execpt for the full-auto trigger the Saiga-9 has all the other necessary internals to be a full-auto SMG. 3rd pin is there and also the reset. So you just have to install a full-auto trigger and you have a full-auto SMG :D

Ian just spoiled us with an East German MPi-AK-74N. Will he be covering that relic of a rifle soon?

"They wanted a submachine gun that could lay a lot of fire quickly" *PPSH-41 eyes glow Soviet Red*

Fun Fact: The Vityaz Magazines have stripper clip guide cutouts on the feed lips to allow 5.45 stripper clips and spoons to feed 10 rounds of 9mm into the mag. It actually works on the K USA mags too.

The wound on finger 8:08 So it's definitely AK

Kalashnikov and Dragunov son's working in the same gun Well that's curious. Seems to be a robust 9mm platform.

In those areas where it is legal, you can easily convert this pistol back into full auto SMG. No gunsmith required, only parts replacement, if you know AK platform well.

I'm so excited seeing this covered on this channel! I own a KP-9 and it is a spectacular gun.

I do hope you'll be able to lay hands on a Vintorez sometime.

8:07 poor finger

Anyone else getting "fuel filter" ads on these videos?

I was able to buy a Saiga-9 back in January this year, was one of the first here in Switzerland that got one. It makes so much fun to shoot with it, specially after I installed an ALG trigger

I will take a good look when you shoot this Ian. Looks like it would be a load of fun with some hot 9mm rounds. You just need Jerry Miculek's trigger finger for full auto mode..

Thanks Ian. Looking forward to seeing some range video of this gun.

My best advice with these kp9/kr9 pistols and rifles, is that if you do not own one, go buy one.

Nice medley of furniture on the parts kit build.

This is a great direction to take your channel when the opportunity presents itself. While I love the history of older guns, shooting them can be a gamble. Please keep us up to date on new guns that have many characteristics of classic ones.

Your extensive knowledge is appreciated. You’re very knowledgeable in all types of weapons.Good job Ian

Would be cool to see a 7.62 Tokarev version.

I love mine, I'm waiting to do my form 1 so I can SBR mine. These things are so well cloned they actually had a manufacturing defect on the top covers that the original did before it was fixed. Just thought that was neat.

Really cool that you came to SA to look at our forgotten weapons.... Thank you for always producing such high quality content. Look forward to your next instalment.

dude.. the ergonomics of this gun

I got to shoot one of these at a demo, it's actually super cool. Totally a great alternative to an MP5.

The KP-9 is such an interesting and cool firearm. It'll probably be my first PCC that I get. Can't wait to see you shoot this tomorrow Ian. :)

The history on the Vityaz is actually pretty damn cool! Thanks as always Ian!

Thanks for doing a video on this, I saw one at my LGS and was interested and unfortunately my friend at the store told me up front he didn’t know much about it and didn’t want to steer me wrong, thanks for taking the time to make your videos

Oh how I wish there was a way to show some of the rare russian spec ops hardware, especially the compact smgs like PP-2000, PP-91 KEDR, OTs-02 Kiparis etc. :)

I love the built in elevation adjustment for the iron sights out to a whole 200m. That's such a first-half-of-the-20th-century touch, and having walked rounds onto a target at 200 yards from a .40 cal carbine, I can appreciate the design mentality that says, "this is as much like artillery as you're gonna get with 9mm," but still puts the damn thing on anyway.

Great piece to shoot. A bonus is that the magazines work with the same stripper clip system as the AK-74. (Some of the clips may need tinkering but most work well as is.) Thanks Ian for another great video!

FYI Ian, I ALWAYS learn something whenever I watch one of your videos... and I am very grateful for it!

Me: I want a AKS-74U Mom: but we already have an AKS-74U at home *AKS-74U at home:*

Thats a nice looking gun and I am assuming they are well made. It does look like a tiny AK as one commentator pointed out. They did good with making it look like the AK and with the parts compatibility it makes it cheap to produce. All together it is a pretty cool gun.

I find this video a very good companion piece to Mr. Rob Ski's 5000 round test of the VP-9. You have "filled in the blanks" as far as history and development of this weapon is concerned, and makes the design make more sense to me. Good video, Sir.

loving the new background mate. clean! keeps the focus on the gun and your beautiful beard

I spent my stimulus check on on this

Straight flexing with an East German AK as a size comparison

Will we ever get the Groza

It always amazes me how videos about gun design and function are so deeply rooted in geography, politics, and society. Ian's delivery is always high quality, patient, and comprehensive. I'm always apologetic I can't support this work- as it's so much more than 'how gun is constructed'.

I wonder if KP9 had an issue when the bolt tilted backwards when shooting and thus breaking the receiver. Saiga-9 basically became a meme for this in Russia.

Hm, lol, the bolt looked like a HK who lost its roller delays.

As always, awesome video with great information!

Perfect for Escape from Tarkov players, been wanting to learn more about this PP-19 equivalent!

A copy so perfect that it's dust cover cracks just like the real one. :P

So glad to have fine replicas on the market. I chased this one from day one as it leaked out of Russia. I wish more historical patterns would be reproduced with modern materials and manufacturing.

Great vid as usual Ian!

Excellent! Thanks Ian. Rich.

I've been wearing my Forgotten Weapons T-shirt all day today. I absolutely love that shirt.

KS-23, one day ...

So VERY cool! Ian, you had me up until the SBR paperwork with BATFE hit me in the head. But I still want one. Thanks for another wonderful production.

The forward extension of the bolt carrier is also a guide rod, of sorts, to keep the bolt in alignment with the barrel

I'm looking forward to the shooting test to see how it compares to MP-5.

I had one of these go full auto on me when a guy let me shoot one at the range in exchange for some shots from my DE. We think the firing pin stuck forward. Quite fun lol, but scared my girlfriend half to death as that was her first time shooting. 11/10 would try again

Great vid Ian!!

A nice thing about those magazines is that they can be quickly loaded with standard ak74 5.45mm stripper clips ( those vertical grooves on the top part of the mag are there to accept the loading tool).

so, this is what happed when the smart kids in the class do a project together.

Thanks for this video Ian, I knew nothing of the Vityaz or the KP-9. This seems to be the idea PSA had with their AK-V. Any major differences that immediately stand out?

Well... KUSA has just blown things so badly that we may never see the KP9 produced again. Wonderful, thanks guys.

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is the fact that you can load the mags with an ak74 spoon and clip. Which I really like. Except that it's harder to find a really good deal on bulk ak74 stripper clips now.

If you stare at the muzzle device it looks like there is a very long legged spider on Ian’s chest. 👍

I can't wait until Ian does more South African guns like the Vektor R1 or SS-77

Generally I'm not interested in SPR or AKs but that looks like a cool rifle. I have 9mm envy again! Waiting for tomorrow and the shooting video.

Thank you , Ian .

I like these guns but first time I picked one up I was shocked how heavy they are.

I luv ak with 9mm cartridge. It looks so hot

Can't wait for tomorrow. I was just typing about putting a can on it so we can see.ThankQ.TkEZ>UK

I sometimes run my PP-19 Bizon replica at airsoft events, and people can never seem to understand how the magazine works, or what it is. I've been thinking of getting somebody to 3D print a Vityaz magwell for it, though. As finding additional mag pouches for helical magazines is a giant asspain. The two I do have will fit 4 real-steel AK mags each, though. Good to see the Vityaz get some spotlight though.

"Repelling hostiles are in for a surprise....."

One thing that always struck me about the Bizon, was that helical magazine must make it handle very oddly with so much forward weight.

Ian could you use an example of how a gun maker went from their thought of making a gun into the process of basic development into refinement and finished product and finally manufacturing?

Can't wait for the shooting video!

too bad I can't have this gun in Thailand because our law isn't allow pistol/semi-auto rifle that has barrels longer than 6.5 inch unless it's bolt actions/lever-action rifle or rimfire cartridge.

Perfect timing, ordered this with my Trump bucks last Wednesday just waiting on mine to get shipped to my local FFL. I was hoping forgotten weapons would do something on the Vityaz thank you.

Besides changing out at least the lower hand guard for a picatiny grip and swapping out the safety lever for one with a bolt hold open this gun is damn near perfect out of the box. I hope one day someone does make a drum mag for it still.

If you look at the magazines for these rifles, they have slits to attach stripper clips. Same stripper clips designed originally for the AK 74. Those clips also work well with these 9mm magazines. It makes reloading at the range WAY faster.

8:29 staring at the trigger group spacing out, I thought that was one single gun and my sight was getting kinda blurry, I'm tired. Then he moved the KP-9 away and *blew my mind* !

Was gonna ask about the stability of the rail... Nevermind :)

Would love to see a video on the pp-19 bizon

Ian's soothing voice is making me fall asleep after a long day at work...

Just announced in Canada today that there are a number of weapons that are now banned. I'm sure that this will be on the list. Love your work. Cheers

I need 5 T Plug for Prapor to trade this

Can't wait to see the shooting video! :3

THE WAY THEY MOUNTED THE RAIL/TOP COVER IS GENIUS!! FINALLY WE CAN USE "NORMAL" RED DOTS!!

Sweet looking gun Ian! I’m curious to hear your thoughts on it’s performance compared to the other sub guns you have experience with. Maybe a Russian police 2-gun match is in order?

If the folding stock is basically standard AK-74, is it possible to put a fixed stock on it?

Perfect timing. I was just educating myself on the vityaz, then this appeared.

Note the 2 machined feeding ramps.

Almost expected Ian to give us a Pirate’s Union salute....Aaaarrrrhhh!

I wonder how this compares to PSA's version that is also based on the Vityaz but takes CZ Scorpion mags. It's about the same price and looking at pictures of both, other than the mag block, folding stock catch, and muzzle brake, they look externally identical.

I hope you review the Slagga Viska (USA VSS Vintorez) when it comes out, that gun has an incredible story.

I’ve had my kp9 for years and I still love it. Although the company has gone thru some drama with CEOs and sponsored “shooters” I still adore mine. Any issues I’ve had with the kp9 has been due to the ammo I was using. Many people complain about mag costs and say that’s why the AKV is better is bc of mags but 1. Get a 5 pack and 2. If any mags break then KUSA will ship you a new one. At least they did for me and I didn’t even have to ship the old one back. Kp9 over AKV any day