Hey everyone, would mean a great deal if you took a minute to click and watch my newest video, "Merfolkless Merfolk | A $50 Budget Pioneer Mono Blue Tempo Deck" here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/briTkpqS29OZkZ8.html

About to sit down and sleeve up a Commander deck, need something to put on in the background, and this pops up on Discord. Perfect.

I keep it casual in commander by not wearing pants during the game

"Jace's Whatever" (2)(U) Instant Counter target spell, or not. It doesn't matter anyway.

Cedh players don’t want to win on turn 2 with a bunch of casual decks. We want a full pod of cedh decks.

My only addition as someone who plays a lot of cEDH is that "competitive" Commander is also casual. It's still just games with friends and hanging out, just with much more powerful decks and an understanding that nothing is off limits. In a weird way I actually find cEDH more social, because no one ever gets salty about a card someone is playing.

Shivam points out painterservant Combo for cedh and I smile forgivingly, sleeving up thassas oracle for flashhulk.

I think the most important thing said in the podcast was "it's about how your opponents feel when they leave the table". That's been my main philosophy for years from the deck building stage all the way to the win. If I win and my friends didn't have a good time I didn't really win.

Shivam makes cEDH players sound like pub stompers. They aren't. Pub stompers are the ones who show up to a casual table, knowing it's a casual table, and do they're best to make sure no one but them play Magic. cEDH players want to play a full competitive pod where everyone knows what's going to happen.

cEDH player here. A lot of what Shivam is saying about casual is also true about cedh. He says casual is about playing your favorite cards, but my favorite cards are the really good ones. I like necropotence and force of will because they are good cards. He says for casual " I want to win but I still want to hang out with you." I still wanna hang out with my friends when we're playing cedh. If I lose it's whatever we still played a good game. Just cause I want to win mean doesn't mean I'm miserable if I don't. its not a "casual players want to have fun" VS "competitive players wants to win" thing. I want to have fun. Winning is fun. Creating an efficient, consistent strategy is fun. I think the difference between casual and competitive is purely a mindset change. casual players play to play competitive players play to win

Shivam really needs to watch some of the Competitive Channels out there... I love your work Brian, but I couldn’t make it through this one (and that doesn’t fall on you here). There is a *social aspect* to competitive. That doesn’t take a backseat just because we’re trying to win games. I like the challenge a table of four competitive lists brings, but beyond that I love playing with my pals. Trust me, it takes a lot for four grown adults to gather around a table to game: we’re not doing it to ram each other into the ground, that’s simply a byproduct of going against my Selvala 🧙‍♂️ Keep up the great work and thank you for keeping all your interview(ee)s honest. PS - Painter Servant + Grindstone only knocks out one Opponent at a time. 🙅‍♂️ No one’s on it. Same reason us Competitives avoid Helm of Obedience + RiP (if we can).

Prof on Saturday: "Every mono-colored deck should run Dust Bowl!" Shivam on Tuesday: "I took Dust Bowl out of my mono-colored deck because it makes everybody miserable!"

I would love to see prof cosplaying Leovold once his hair grows back.

I prefer cEDH because there is no misunderstandings. No one is surprised when someone cyc-rifts, no one is just staring at the table with their minotaur tribal deck. No one gets mad because some one uses removal or counterspells to stop them from winning. cEDH is still social and its still fun. cEDH also has Considerablely less salt and anger. The guy playing across doesnt get mad cuz I combo off. cEDH players go "oh i lost! Good game, go again?" Many casual games ive played will start out as "oh my decks like a 7/10" me,"oh ok i'll play my derpy tribal deck" then i eat them alive because they have no idea how to judge power levels. Then they immediately get salty and cry about cedh without knowing what cedh decks even look like.

"Some cards are just inherently broken" Me looks at banlist. Looks at copious amounts of fast mana. Yea okay

As always, it's about mindset. I'm a very casual budget commander player, so I'm going to be miserable playing a cEDH level deck. However, theres absolutely nothing wrong with cEDH. If that's how they wanna play and enjoy it, then that's great. It comes down to communication amongst players to know what everyone wants out of a game.

cEDH is about socialization too. We enjoy playing with people with the same power lvl and we hang out with them and have a great time! But we choose the most optimized way to play and build. cEDH is about answers and be relevant through all the game.

While winning is important, MTG has always just been an excuse to hang out with my play group. Especially as we get older, and myself moving soon. I've bought so many boxes lately just so every weekend I could fire off a free draft. Only a few of us are into EDH, but no one can resist a free draft. (I buy the box and keep the cards, everyone drafts for free. I also bought bulk sleeves for everyone.) We do ignore the EDH banlist, if you want to play Iona, Grislebrand, Braids? We will simply gang up on you.

I define casual as pulling blows if somebody is having bad time. making plays for thr lols. flavor wins etc. I have a tuned deck for cedh and thats fine as long as everybody at table wants that.

I have to say, I feel like the mark was missed here while the topic was on Competitive EDH. I would love to see you bring on someone from the Spike Feeders or something to see how actual cEDH players view cEDH.

I met Shivam at CommandFest Seattle, and he was a super nice guy, but I do feel like cEDH is misrepresented in this episode. As a cEDH player myself, I enjoy high-powered interactive games where everyone is trying to win while keeping everyone else in check. I do not enjoy just playing to win; I enjoy when EVERYONE is playing to win, and is equipped to do so. In my playgroup, which is a group of 4 friends at a friend's house with the occasional guest, you will see very high powered "cutthroat" games, but everyone is having fun, even when stopped. For example, while piloting Gitrog, my Turn1 mana dork was countered with Mental Misstep, then Turn2 ANOTHER Mental Misstep countered my next dork AND a Shadow of Doubt caused my fetchland to "fail to find," which I thouoght was really impressive control by my opponents & made me laugh, even though Turn3 I was starting off with a single land, that's it. I STILL won that game, btw, & for me that challenge & accomplishment are incredibly fun! I have casual decks of every power level for different groups of people, but I really really treasure the times I am able to play actual cEDH. cEDH pods are much rarer, & playing a competitive deck at a casual table to just win Turn2 or Turn3 is not fun at all. Winning through a stack 10 interactions deep against other decks trying to go off in a similar time-frame is awesome & much more rewarding. Stax & control are in every deck in my playgroup, which makes the skill of the pilots much more important. I personally get bored with casual games now, since the interactions on your own side of the board might be interesting after 7-10 turns, but in cEDH the interactions between ALL PLAYERS are interesting starting on Turn1. The level of skill needed to pilot cEDH decks in a cEDH environment is what makes me enjoy playing Magic- & I am there to have fun, but to me, that IS fun.

45:44 I waited 45 minutes just for this moment. Best part of the video lmfao xD

Play to Win, an explicitly CEDH KZfaq channel, published a list of Casual Commander guidelines. I think they summarize it well: * No infinite loop combos * No instant win cards * No mana-positive rocks (except Sol Ring) * No urestricted tutors costing less than 3 mana * No zero-cost counter spells * No off-color fetch lands * No cards valued over $100 The only point I'd differ with is card value which I think should be limited to $25 max.

TL; DL: When you're going to play, make sure everyone gets to have fun in some way.

I can only speak for myself here: I play EDH to have fun. As long as I feel it was a great game, I don't care if I win or lose. Heck, I even have a Tuvasa deck with the main goal to force a draw with Enchanted Evening + Ajani's Chosen/Archon of Sun's Grace, because when no one wins, there are no losers, right? And I also play cEDH to have fun, but on another powerlevel. Of course a powerlevel that everyone agreed on. And of course, in cEDH I want to win. But in cEDH every player is on the same level. No one gets mad at certain cards, because that's what cEDH is about. Play the best of the best. So yeah, even though if I play to win, fun is still the main reason why I play. I have a deck for almost every powerlevel, from upgraded Precon (Kadena) to cEDH (Fblthp, G-E Kefnet), and of course communication before a game of Commander is key.

I don't like how "casual commander " means only play the cards I like and don't interrupt what I'm doing. The whole point of magic is to interact with the other players gameplan. 4 people playing solitaire is not magic.

For those who want to listen to previous episodes of this and "Dies To Removal," episodes get uploaded on Apple, Soundcloud, etc. several days after they air here. See the links below or just search on your favorite podcast listening app! Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dies-to-removal/id1444537761 SoundCloud: soundcloud.com/tolariancommunitycollege/how-to-evaluate-your-commander-decks-power-level-untitled-magic-the-gathering-podcast-1

Here's a better definition of cEDH: You play the most efficient spells at the most mana cost-effective slots. cEDH is the legacy of commander. It doesn't mean it's mean-spirited or non-social, it's just a higher power level of cards with much more interactivity than your typical pod of commander.

I mostly play Cedh, but I play casual as well. The biggest difference I experience is almost most casual players don't play much interaction, removal, countermagic etc.

One of my things on my bucket list is to 1 meet the professor, and 2 play a commander game with him

Playing torment of hailfire as a pseudo board wipe is akin to playing mass land destruction or an overloaded rift without a followup: annoying to everyone at the table. I use hailfire as the finisher in my Korvold lands deck, where one of the finishers is to use boseiju and squandered resources to create a giant uncounterable hailfire to win. The game needs to end eventually, and I think I'm allowed to do so if I have 15+ lands on board to generate 30+ Mana. Also, some the comments made make it sound like you can't play aggressively in "casual" commander. You should be allowed to punish people for doing nothing before turn 6 or 7 and if you aren't running interaction or board wipes to hold off an aggressive playstyle early then that is your fault not the fault of the player attacking you. I like to build low to the ground and efficient regardless of the win condition or intended competitiveness of the deck, but this episode makes it sound like efficient cards aren't fun, which is not true. Efficient cards allow you to do more early in a game, which sounds fun to me.

I love the idea presented here where the distinction isn’t between competitive and casual, but rather, the goal of playing being to compete or to socialize

Its weird how Shivam explains what casual EDH is, "Trying to win, but hanging out and having a good time." I don't see how cEDH is any different, except everyone is playing highly optimized decks. It seems like he thinks pubstompers are synonymous with cEDH, which isn't correct.

I don't understand why one would be okay with combos, but hate on cards like Torment of Hailfire and Emrakul.

“Jace Whatever”...haha! Take note Unteam!

From the definition of casual in this podcast cedh is actually casual

I've played plenty of regular EDH and quite a bit of cEDH, for me EDH has by far a higher percentage of games that feel underwhelming - mainly due to an imbalance in power level due to the subjective nature of power levels. My playgroup has tried calibrating our power level but it only goes so far, especially as the natural safety valves on certain strategies are frowned upon (land destruction, stax). cEDH has a large community of testers, which help to balance games - I rarely feel like I have no chance of at least impacting the game.

Since I've started watching "Casually Competitive MTG", cEDH doesn't seem as terrible as I used to think. More exposure dispels the fear. Also, I once won on turn 4 with my Yargle deck, but it was christmas Magic & I wouldn't call it competitive. (1vs1). Also, don't hate on Torment of Hailfire. Games gotta end somehow.

As I read somewhere, “In the words of my local control player, ‘there’s limited fun to go around, and I want to make sure I’m having all of it’”

"We can still be keeping it casual while playing the most hardcore, aggressively competitive decks there is." If you're going to set up a dichotomy of "casual vs competitive" and you define casual as "literally any deck, as long as you're all on the same page" that means that you've stuck competitive with the definition of "pubstomping." I see we're falling in line with the "cEDH players are all bad and mean" sentiment.

I love your long form podcast style videos. Glad to see more of them. Love ya man

After listening to this podcast with Shivam and the last one with Olivia I am convinced that there is a disconnect and fundamental misunderstanding/lack of knowledge of cEDH by members of the CAG. There is no wrong way to play MTG, casual and cEDH are both fun in their own way, but it would go a long way if Prof could speak to prominent cEDH community members to give others a better idea of what cEDH is and what it aims to achieve.

Here from Chile, and I gotta say that a lot of new commander are also played a lot here because they are around. You can get some legends of more recent sets with far more ease than older ones, specially when you need to pay like $50 for shipping if you want to order from CK or SCG.

I'm going to have to agree with everyone else in the comments. As someone who plays a good amount of both casual and competitive commander. Shivam really misrepresented cEDH here.

First off, love the content. Keep it up. Disclaimer: My preferred level of commander is casual. Battlecruiser to optimized, some decks possibly borderline pubstompy but everyone was on the same page.(everyone playing powerful but we wouldn't do so hot in a cEDH pod) I used to really dislike cEDH and the(my supposed) idea of it, for some of the same reasons outlined in the video. Context: I had a great playgroup of about 10 people that would get together all the time to play fun, powerful, and at times whacky decks.(there's that rule of three) However, I eventually moved and found that the game store in my new area had a commander night on Mondays. I started going and observed that the players most consistently there played cEDH. They had casual decks too, for when they were in a casual pod, but they preferred competitive. What surprised me was that before every game, if someone was new to the pod or they did not know the player, they would have a quick power level pow wow to avoid any games where someone would feel left out. As time went on I decided I would build a cEDH deck, for those times when only people playing cEDH were at commander night. As I was putting the deck together (Urza because of the cheap mono-colored mana base, that and I had some of the pieces) I studied, learning the nuances and the ideals behind playing competitively. (you probably saw this coming after the "life story") My whole perspective changed when I realized that it's not, finding more fun in winning, unenjoying the social aspect of the game as much, or being cutthroat. It is about making the most correct play at the correct time. (I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get it 100%) A good example of this is: Player A is at 35, Player B is at 16, Player C is in combat and can swing for 3 damage. (a huge swing, right?) Most of the time, if there is an opportunity to bring an opponent closer to losing, that is the path Player C will take. However, in a casual game, Player C might attack A because that player blew up their value enchantment earlier.(definitely my style) Another way of thinking about it would be this. Say there are two combo decks in your pod, A and B again. Both A and B have everything they need to win on board but it's A's turn and B needs an untap. A is about to go for it but you, C, have interaction that will stop the combo. Stopping A won't win you the game, you will just be giving the game to B. Unless they're feeling silly, the competitive player will allow the win and shuffle up for another. A casual Player C, in the same scenario, (I've definitely done this) might play the king-maker role because earlier Player A stole their goblin token and sacrificed it. ("It was just a token!" "No. It was my token.") My point: All of this rant is to say that there are many shades of grey when talking about EDH power levels and it's no one's place to assume what someone else would prefer. I'm a casual player but I'm glad that I had the experience of adapting for a cEDH environment. (I've moved again since then) Had I not, I would still see every competitive player as not adhering to the spirit of the format. That's how I felt. What I realize now is that instead of the grand epic army against army, clash of massive forces and wild spells, cEDH is like an old Western quick draw. Some of us prefer to be a mighty general, commanding an army. Some of us prefer taking on the EDH equivalent of Wild Bill Hickok.

Hey Professor thanks for all you do! I just listened to Keeping Commander Casual and wow did it resonate with me. It’s why I learned magic then quite back in college because people weren’t willing to acknowledge casual. Now I found Commander and love the idea of the format and wow just thank you. Your videos been helping make me better along with my friends as we sit and play casual. You have a standing invitation to sling spells with us anytime.

I don't get bans on high ramp cards (or any cards) when there are still countless ways to make infinite mana in EDH (and break the game in general). Like... Ya banned Primeval Titan. Big whoop? Doesn't change my friend's Breya deck from going infinite with Mana on turn 4 or 5. The ban list is so arbitrary.

Most cedh games are "casual" by the Shivam and Profs definition. In a cedh pod everyone is on the same page and are playing with a level of power that is similar. People are actually LESS salty because the games take shorter and a win is always on the table if they draw well. A TON of casual games are just playing their favorite cards and one persons "pet cards" are just way better. Even though they are playing their "pet cards" they win all the time and that can be frustrating for the rest of the pod. IMO it is more fun getting together for a couple hours and getting in more games rather than playing only 1 or 2 and getting stomped the whole time because of how impossible "casual" edh is to balance even among the players themselves.

Thassa's Oracle? Legal. Coalition Victory? Banned!

Prof, these podcasts are great! I really enjoy listening to them whilst deck building. Commander is such a great format and it's awesome to have podcasts that explores all the different aspects of it. Thanks!

Even the “heads” of eDH can provide nothing more than an ambiguous indication of the “difference” between casual and competitive eDH is.

The bit about standard at the end had me ROLLING!

Fun is SUBJECTIVE, whats fun for you might not be fun for others vice-versa. Others find fun on casual, and Others find fun on cEDH.

I love the term 'motivation'. Its the perfect way to phrase the difference between competitive and casual play.

I see his points, but I don’t think Shivam understands enough about competitive commander, aka cEDH. I’m glad they brought playing with power on after this, to let people know how cEDH players actually think/feel.

I play torment of hailfire...and hour of devestation, and cruel ultimatum. I mean it's fine becuase it's a full bolas deck! right?

I completely disagree with the idea that cedh only plays to win and doesn't play to socialize. We play to win just as much as most "casual" players. If you sit down a group of cedh players they will spend the whole night playing and chatting just as much. I myself met my D&D group by hanging out with other cedh players. The only difference is power level, which is a gradient. Not some strict cut-off.

Shivam has the kind of attitude where I just like listening to them talk.

I have 8 total EDH decks and they all have different ways to win. But I personally don’t run infinite combos, I dial back on tutors and instead substitute with better card draw. Each deck is meant for multiplayer and highly interactive because for the entry to mid-level average player, we just want a chance to at least set up a game and see what the deck is able to do. I like it when people have the option to do their big fun things. Anyone can bring any new deck idea to the group and we don’t complain. The oppressive player will always get ganged up on, and sometimes it’s even encouraged because of the importance of threat recognition. My playgroup doesn’t have issues because we communicate and we’re all happy to play Magic!

Dwarven pony should be in every dwarf tribal deck I will die on this hill

I have a lot of introspective thoughts/feelings on this topic but my short take on the difference, having played magic for 20+ years now in most of the settings it can be played in is this: In the simplest possible terms, the difference between cEDH/tournament (and any version of 1v1 EDH as well) and all other play styles is that cEDH/tournament is a 100% goal oriented task/activity mindset. The outcome of winning is the goal the path and tools used to achieve that goal matter or so far as they are the best ones to achieve the outcome; success or failure is binary, as is the measure of you the player and your accomplishments/achievements. *ALL* other play is some mixture of process oriented and goal oriented, from those who still want to win but desire to build decks and experience play a certain way while doing it to those who don't care if they build and play jank that never wins or even does much because they just want to have some fun while drinking and playing with friends at home (100% process orientation). The weirdest thing, to me, about the EDH format *specifically* is that these two modalities of play cohabit/coexist/co-mingle in the same play environment to a much greater degree than all other MtG play; the non-sanctioned play environment classically reserved for casual, predominantly creativity/identity oriented deck design and process oriented play.

competitive : i WILL win this game, this deck is DESIGNED to win in the most efficient way possible casual : i want to win, but my deck is designed to do something i find cool or interesting, and i want to share my ideas with my friends

I can't believe this. I wonder if the Commander Committee understand their role. Shivam's point that pre-turn 4 combos are bad but acceptable, tutors to get those pre-turn 4 combos are acceptable, but getting sufficient mana on board to play an effective game-winning Torment of Hailfire is bad. It's all double-talk. The Committee's job is to try to make commander uniform and understandable as a format between two strangers. Any playgroup could make their own house rules (planeswalker commanders, etc.) and understand the rules of their play - but two strangers meeting to play "Commander" needs a basic understanding of what that means.

Casual Commander our favorite format. We're always playing to socialize have fun.

I feel like Shivam definitely missed the mark on his understanding of cEDH, and that worries me if he’s one of the people who has the direct ear of the RC.

Hey prof! Shivan was also my favorite card from back in the day. I found a slot for a copy from Revised in my Ur-Dragon casual EDH. Other dragons may be stronger or more efficient, but the Shivan is by far the most beautiful of the pack to me. Great content!

I love Torment of Hailfire, but in very few decks. Such a cool effect.

In my playgroup we have competitive matches (with tutors, turn 4 wins and etc...) and casual matches (no combos allowed). Both are really fun, we just have to play with the appropriate deck in each match

The commander ban list has some really odd choices to me that don't fit the philosophy presented here. Biorhythm? Coalition Victory? Are these cards the boogeymen in a format as busted as commander?

Coming from someone who plays both competitive and casual, the most straight forward way to explain the way I play casual is pulling my punches. I actively slow my deck down and push it towards the most fun/jank route that I enjoy or will get a funny reaction from the table. Atraxa darksteel reactor is one of my favorites, perhaps I could restore Shivam’s faith in the deck.

I love these videos. I think I this had a lot of points in it that I really have found to be true in most games of commander I've played. Thanks for a great video!

I think the rules committee has gone too far ahead of themselves when considering what is fun, and the banlist has now become a way of saying "Oh we think your way of having fun is the wrong way." I enjoy ridiculous fast combos with Paradox Engine and Fish Hulk because I'm spikey and find cutthroat competitive environments fun, and having the RC ban such things (or consider banning) just makes me feel as though my way of enjoying the game is invalidated based on a very arbitrary yardstick. As for the comment that "the cards you pick is the face you present to other people", yes I know my 23 counterspell control deck is a resting bitch face that nobody wants to see. However, instead of complaining about the slow game state that you think I've created, it's equally viable to use this information to craft a gameplan around beating a heavy control deck. One more thing about the idea of casual magic is that people don't tend to understand how cost of the deck can factor a lot into how 'casual' it is. I can build a very efficient deck on a budget, and casual players will think it's too competitive because Im actually trying to win, while cEDH players will stomp it into the ground. I feel as though the community doesn't really give a place for budget players who still want to play competitive decks, especially since it's quite an achievement to make something this efficient from suboptimal parts.

This is the second member of the commander Advisory boars on the show. This is also the second time I am weary of members of the commander Advisory board, and there lack of knowledge reguarding cedh.

Sounds like Shivam has trouble distinguishing between cEDH and pubstompers. I've experienced significantly less salt, and more "hey, let's hang out" through cEDH than I have in casual. I think his trouble started when he had to define competitive first in order to define casual.

The most painful part of this is that the commander I love most for her artwork and story and emotional resonance pretty much REQUIRES a glass cannon infinite combo type strategy to win.

In my opinion, this explanation from Shivam feels like we are being told how to play casual commander, where there are realistically many interpretations. Casual commander should not mean that you can't play boring win conditions or make decks more consistent. The definition of casual commander is not "what Shivam thinks is fun". Prof, thank you for trying to challenge his argument and thank you for your tireless effort.

The cEDH stigma still going on today is frankly condescending and quite annoying. Both are just as social and just depends on who you're playing with. Just because I rather play a survival of the fittest over fauna shaman doesn't mean people get to decide that I'm not here to have fun. I've had people call my Sliver deck and my Yarok ETB deck competitive just because I don't like budget restriction; that's where I either change my deck or join another table. Don't police people's opinions, most people I know wouldn't want to watch through a 3-4 hour game with people throwing vanilla creatures at each other. On a side note, I only own 1 cEDH deck and only play it in casual pods by request. I've never seen people build deck for the sole purpose of curb stomping underpowered decks. People aren't stupid, if you bring in optimised Urza or hulk decks without everyone on the same page you're likely not having a second game in that pod. Stop defining something as subjective as 'casual'.

I really do believe that "casual" is more of a mindset than it is a number of cards. I remember sitting down watching over all the other decks at the table and refusing to play my animate dead on my worldgorger dragon, just because i didnt want to take away the game on turn 6 when everybody just got to know each other. and beyond that, honest to god, i dont care about winning or losing when i can have "borrowed friends" for a little time.

This new untitled podcast has been *seriously* fantastic. I love seeing the prof talk with new guests, and this got me interested in checking out Shivam's other stuff.

I've been at this game since Invasion, and on the EDH train since 2011 with decks of various power. In my experience, the most competitive players, and all of the pubstompers, are ALWAYS hiding in the "casual" groups, and non-existent in the CEDH pods. I've had more fun watching someone crank out a massive stack of counterspells and wincons than watching the lifegain deck sit there with an Aetherflux Reservoir and 120 life for turns on end holding the board hostage. People need to get over the prejudice that CEDH is for spikes and WAAC jerks. It's a high-power, no-holding-back way of play that pushes interaction and play skill while providing a fun and social environment. Frankly, "Competitive" EDH really needs to be redefined as "Power" EDH.

I'm not saying CEDH doesn't play to have fun, or that fun is oppositional to winning, but i think that i got ahead of myself and wasn't clear about it. The biggest difference between casual and non-casual edh is simply where you are finding your fun. is your fun in the social aspect of hanging out, or the actual moment to moment gameplay? is your fun in playing a story, or in playing the best possible way you can? i have a ton of respect for my friends in the cedh community, but it's just not the way i approach the game.

The way I would describe casual commander is that even if you are playing to win, you are trying to win within some self-imposed or group-imposed limitations. Some examples can include price of cards or price of deck, or adherence to a particular theme amongst many other possible examples. I try my hardest to win and therefore am "competitive" during the game, but when I actually build my decks, I am much more interested in making the best deck I can while still adhering to flavor. In competitive, it is commandeering the best decks period.

Amen. Amen. Amen. I want to be with people and I want them to have fun. If everyone's deck can perform, then I have won. If the table gets a laugh poking fun at my mono-white decks that I love, then I've won. If I get to see someone else's deck go off and be amazing, then I've won. I'm here for the social aspect, to be expressive, and to watch other decks be amazing.

Sorta feel like the cross roads is like "It's not about winning or losing... Me: "...it's about playing well and interacting with the gamestate" Shivam: "it's about self expression and getting to do my own thing" Me: wait, what? At least we all agree it's not about winning, kek

This vid made me want wizards want to take over the format.

I do not think it is deck construction entirely, but a person's mentality and purpose for playing that sets the tone for casual. I would rather play against a lighthearted fun person playing Armageddon than a 'world series of poker" grinder playing a precon. That competitive spirit just harshes the mello. I am playing commander to get away from that competitive play style, especially the within myself.

In the last episode, there was a discussion about games have to end and decks need a way to end games. Would like to hear an episode that dives into ways games end. And opinions on those game enders in respect to keeping it casual and fun. There’s a chat in the comments about Craterhoof vs Torment, and I found it very interesting.

Shivam, I follow you on Twitter and we have had a few disagreements and I've wondered for awhile if we actually mostly agree but have struggled communicating effectively in so few characters. Considering that I 100% agree with everything you said here as my own philosophy for Commander, I know for sure that it is Twitter holding us back from communicating amicably. Great video!

Every time I hear Shivam talk about the difference in cEDH and the rest it just sounds like he doesnt want me to put powerful cards in my deck. His narrow definition of what truly is commander is just as bad as profs super narrow definition of what counts as Star Trek.

Me and my playgroup talked about this topic yesterday and we came to the same conclusion. Its about gathering

My last two losses at "Casual Commander" night were to demonic tutor to search for an infinite. Next game enlightened tutor to search for an enchantment lock. Why even have a 1 card limit? Also, they don't have to ban every tutor. They simply need to make a rule similar to the one that doesn't allow cards from outside the game.

I do love "some" of the points made in the opening section. Usually when I'm building a deck for EDH I want to find a Commander I find has a cool or unique effect, and then brew around that idea. I always feel great joy if I can play a creature or a spell where my friends are like "what is that?" and then when seeing what it does in my deck they're like "That's so cool." An example of this being a creature like Saltskitter in my Ephara deck. It's a not commonly seen commander and as such Saltskitter can be an unknown in some circles. Those who've brewed an Ephara deck or played against one know just how potent a pair they make and will easily have you draw 5 cards per round of the table. I don't like this idea that seems to be attributed to cEDH where it's like "the social aspect isn't important." I don't play cEDH but know people who do, and while they love the ramped up power level and wanting to win, they play to also have a good time with friends. I think the social aspect is a cornerstone of all EDH and that's what is so good about our format. 1 pod can go hell for leather with high power decks and have a great time with friends, while the next pod are playing all sorts of weird and wonderful combos and commanders and have a great time with friends. The people you play with help determine that situation along with you.

This is really sad when the people running our format dont understand it. So there is a set way to play commander. Turn 1 : play land , turn 2: mana rocks, turn.... and if you deviate then u are opressing the table? this is terrible and why it seems like the majority of the casual meta ( that I play in) often end up playing decks that are only singleplayer engines. If anything we should celebrate the player who refused to ramp till turn 6/7 and instead played an early threat with something like winter orb to punish the obvious and overplayed ramp decks which plague the format. If you want all games to be similiar and whoever wins was the player who happened by luck to draw the earlier threat then why even play a format with so many potencial. These interviews only show how narrow minded the people setting the rules are currently. Something like the new Conquest edh format for example seems to have a more practical banlist to promote a healthy diverse format.

My biggest takeaway from this episode is that Shivam would hate playing with me, and by extension my playgroup. Besides the blatant hate towards cEDH or even just high power leveled EDH, he also seems to have an internalized hatred for control strategies. Bleh.

I took apart my chulane combo deck and rebuilt it as adventure tribal with an enchantress back up plan to be able to run all of my showcase cards. It made a deck that is semi competitive but opponents smile. That was the best part of Throne of Eldraine the flavor just makes your smile.

We're framing this conversation like keeping Commander casual is a good thing? It's kind of insulting that there is an assumption here that liking playing with powerful cards is somehow bad. Certainly, curbstomping lower power level tables is bad. But I don't see how framing casual as being desirable and competitive as being less so makes sense. It would drive me bananas trying to play a deck against this guy because my power level 4 (weakest that I have) morph deck would be curbstomping his deck that he made based on the kind of art that he likes. I find a complete lack of attention to mechanics and synergy to be utterly boring to play against.

Shivam really seems like such a nice, genuine, approachable guy who just wants everyone to have as much fun as possible. It's really refreshing to see such a cool guy and honest actor in this kind of conversation. His ideas I think better the format.

Shivam, I fell like that more than the cards you choose to be on your deck, the cards you choose not to play says a lot to how casual you want to play!

keeping it casual is the goal but it is nice to have that one deck that just rocks hard. having different power decks is the way to go so you can play with everyone.

The reason I like cedh is because everyone is expected to try to interact. There are more decision points. I don't sit down and play flash hulk vs pre cons or whatever.