yeonwoo yeonwoo! you should do more video like this abbout "go news" cuz we dun know anything that is going on in the go world at all :o so these are very nice to know about :O

Sai is so sad to see players cheating. :(

I am so happy that you spoke your mind , I feel the same way too ,cheating like this is straight up disrespectful to the player herself and whoever the opponent was and will be.

I am amazed that cheating was so easily possible. There should be webcam and screen recording in all online tournaments with prize money. It is almost impossible to prove that someone was cheating if there was no recording.

Can an A I program be used to draft a very powerful apology letter?

It's a heart breaking story. I hope she gets some professional assistance to help her carrying this mistake - life itself is enough hard mode.

It would have been much more ok with simply a proper apology and not that bs story about opening a homepage.

I made some pretty bad decisions at 13 years old too. I hope this doesn't follow her the rest of her life.

As a student of the law, the penalty of imprisonment for cheating on a game seems very excessive and draconian. Banning, Suspension or Fine would be sufficient. Civil damages could also be added. Deprivation of Liberty such as imprisonment is usually reserved for offenses that actually harm society at large. The argument that many amateurs sacrifice their lives to become pro is incongruent to the penalty imposed. The cheater only pose a danger to Go players and not the entire citizenry at large. Can you imagine imprisoning a go cheater together with high profile swindlers, thieves and robbers? They'll ask "what are you in for." Go Cheating. That would just be ridiculous. Plus she's a minor.

My guess is that she had made a habit out of using AI while playing online games for practice. So when it came to playing a serious game she just did it out of habit.

Wow. Very entertaining video

Very sensitively and intelligently articulated. A sad account to give. But spoken very well. Thanks.

thanks for this

I love your new glasses. It Looks you very good.

Tough situation for a girl so young... So much pressure to win. Doesn't excuse her actions, but I still feel bad for her.

can't believe someone has to spend a year in prison for cheating at a board game

She's young enough to become a better person, but she needs the right influences to guide her. In addition to the one year suspension, I think all the go/baduk associations should look over all the games she plays when she returns for a year. In fact, maybe computer software should always be used to make sure no one is cheating whenever a competition is being held online.

The apology is unsatisfying, she'd write the same apology were she forced into apologising without having cheated. I don't think the guilt you would expect from a kid and outrage you would expect from the public need to be comparable. It can be both outrageous without there being too much ill intent. It's possible she didn't understand how damaging something like cheating is. I did understand that at her age and it makes me wonder if this could be a drawback of living in a society with so much peer pressure. I heard she is still playing some matches in China. On an unrelated note - I wonder if it would be possible to play well (or badly) where you force your opponent to answer (or refute) you in the same way as an A.I. would. And it's cool to have comparison of Yeonwoo being serious in Korean and in English. :-)

I think that shame is the real punishment. (edit : and lesson) For the rest of her life.

Cho Hye-yeon 9p said that once during a professional qualification tournament a young boy used A.I. during his match and was sentenced to 1 year in prison. Harsh punishment indeed. I'm not saying that Kim Eunji deserves similar treatment but people on the internet are denouncing pros saying that the pros are doing this because they are threatened by her ability. This is not true. She just needs to chill for a year, get some perspective, do something else than Baduk. Maybe the pressure of rising so far so fast broke her and she was exhausted under the immense pressure that she would do anything to win. She will always be one of my favorite Baduk players regardless of this scandal. She's lucky that her professional status wasn't revoked.

It’s a very sad story. I agree with your proposed punishment, though. Also, your glasses are very nice!

This punishment is too soft. I don't get people sympathazing with a cheater due to the age. Sure, she's young, but actions have consequences. She is old enough to take her career seriously, so she's also old enough to understand that cheating is something that can ruit it. If you cut slack to cheaters you are sending the wrong message: take the risk, because it is worth it. You will have 3 cheaters in her place the next time. There must be a zero tolerance policy. Caught the first time - at least 3 years ban. Caught the second time - lifetime ban, no exceptions. People dedicate their lives to becoming better at the game, imagine how they feel after being cheated against.

This is a shame!!! Yeonwoo, your English is perfect and beautiful--better than many native speakers in the United States I know!

She’s only 13. Let her learn her lesson so she can grow as a person.

She is lucky to not be banned for a lifetime. I hope she has learned a good lesson.

We can't put the genie back into the bottle.

Prison?!?!!! Wow, just wow. I thought portions of our justice system was hard ...

Yeonwoo: super serious incident here. Me: hey that's a cool painting!!

So sad ..

I don't have a strong opinion on the punishment given. However, I think we should take a moment to consider whether it's fair to put so much pressure on such a prodigy, calling her "the future of Korean go". Your analogy of cheating on an exam is interesting. My understanding is that there is enormous pressure in Korea to score well on exams. I'm certain this culture leads to both cheating and - far worse - depression and suicide. I think children need to be assured that it's okay to fail, to lose, or else they will make poor decisions like KimEnji has. When you're young, the fear of losing can seem worse than any consequence of cheating. It's very hard for a young person to consider the distant future. How does a 13-year-old even imagine "Your career will be ruined"?

Wow, crazy

Those are cute glasses. I don’t remember these glasses from before.

Hello Yeonwoo! Thank you for making this video - would it be possible to translate your comments into Chinese for a Go news story? Currently, fans in China are also following the developments of this incident (unfortunately there are also some similar cases in Chinese tournaments), so it would be meaningful to shed some light. Thanks again!

In my personal opinion, I think three years could have been a better option with some adjustments, exceptions, and amendments in order to forster her character as a future professional.

I find it a little bit hard to give the amateur player who cheated a one year prison sentence. I think if it was Europe, he would be only one probation with a high fine. But Kim Eunji having only one year is in my oppinion not enough

Very sad. The chess world has been dealing with these sorts of incidents for years now, and it was only a matter of time before it happened in Go too. I was shocked to hear about the prison sentence for the amateur player, but on reflection some sort of criminal punishment doesn't seem inappropriate. Perhaps something for chess to consider too. Kim Enji's punishment seems proportionate to me - some consideration should be made of her age.

Very light punishment. How can a pro just get a one year suspension when an amateur goes to jail for the same thing?

Such a shame... now even if she becomes #1 in the world, her legacy will always be tainted. :(

It was not a question of if it will happen, it was a question of when it will happen. Especially with all online competitions..

I feel like 1 year seems acceptable, only because at the age of 13, people's ability to make good ethical judgements is below that of a fully developed adult. I probably would go for 1.5 - 2 years though. Also, as people grow older, time tends to feel like it moves faster, so 1 year might feel a bit longer for a 13 year old than for a 25 year old. That said, if she uses AI again, expulsion probably should be expected, or at the very least, 5 years. I don't particularly know what to make of the apology though, because even though she almost certainly cheated, I feel like her primary motivation for the apology was to reduce social pressure (I could definitely be wrong about this). Thus, if she didn't cheat, and got the same social pressure, I think there's a decent shot she'd still write the apology. Even so, I think the KBA association should have been more decisive about the punnishment, partially because it makes it seem that they have alterior motives for inflicting the punnishment, but also because it sends a lighter message to pro players who would consider cheating (including KimEnji). I hope that ultimately, good things result from this ultimately and KimEnji learns her lesson.

Yeonwoo with glasses! Since do you have them? Why don't you wear them more often?

AI changed and will continue to change go from now on, it is difficult to decide on a punishment for a teenager, 3 years is too harsh but 1 it is kinda meh, they could combine the 1 year ban with voluntary work but i don't know if korea has the legal framework for that.

I think her age was a factor to give just 1 year. Since she is young I guess a more mild sentence makes sense IMO.

Baduk drama

Putting people in prison for cheating at go? That's insane.

Sad, but it was just a matter of time until something like this would happen. Hopefully officials will improve on the tournament organization to stop the cheating.

2:17 what i was when i smoked pot the first time i`m sorry just had too...

I don't understand the letter. Is she trying to say she opened the AI by accident?

The decision here is very difficult especialy for people like us very far from the proffesional world, at first I was thinking one year sanction was good because she is young and we should use this mistake as part of her education but in the same time outside of being a kid she is also a pro, and part of the coomunity of the korean proffessional player, and giving her only a one year sanction create a feeling of unfair for other proffessional player like you or others. If specific rules are created for specific person the balance of the competition is in danger, what if another kid come pro at the same age and cheat also ? They will be forced to give him a one year sanction now and not 3 years sanction because now it already happened, and all the young kids now know that and can use it

A microcosm of how technology changes the world. It can change the world for good and for bad at the same time. Go playing AI can push the boundaries of our theoretical knowledge and it can also enable cheaters.

She is (was) 13 yo. A lot of pressure on her. I think 1 year and the negative badge she is gonna have to carry for potentially 50+ years of her pro life will be really difficult to deal. When you're an adult, you can think long-term, you have real-life experience, she probably had no idea what living with "she is the girl who used AI" would be like. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she simply quit Go altogether in a few years. Besides all that, shouldn't there be an adult around her when playing tournament matches? What were these idiots doing in the meantime? 1 year in prison for cheating in a pro qualification match seems a bit too much in my opinion too.

What program was Kim Enji using that can beat a 9d pro???

There is innovation on the anti-cheating side as well. Cheaters will be caught more easily, and people won't easily dare to cheat in competitions. I don't really care what punishment Kim Eunji receives. Her career will be set back by many years anyway, while trying to regain her reputation.

When you cheat you don't just cheat your opponent but you cheat yourself. You'll never know your limits or know what you can work on to improve, and you're takin away wins from people who are working on themselves, and for what? To play stronger opponents? You are not the one playing them, the AI is. Don't you see how that is detrimental to your own developement?

She is just a child. This happened in Chess lots of times (even in a face-to-face tournament) and people learnt not to make a big deal about it. I think it's gonna be the same in Baduk too. I believe the problem here is that people can take help from AI in just "a-few" critical moves and there will be no way of knowing; but this child simply made a mistake because you know, she is just a child. 1 year of suspension is a fair punishment, but making a world-wide lynch is not.

I think 1 year suspension is appropriate even for adult people. 1 year in prison? That's inhumane unless the tournament had a big money prize like $5,000 or above.

I am very surprised that online tournaments do not require either multiple camera or multiple human observers in a pandemic-safe setting.

I agree that 3 years of suspension for the first time cheating and being expelled if caught again is appropriate, but for a 13 year old would be too harsh. At that age people change very fast and it's very likely she'll understand in just 1 year how what she did wasn't okay

In this case I think the baduk association made the right decision. There can be no tolerance for cheating and an adult player who cheats should be expelled permanently. However Kim Enji is still a kid and we know kids make stupid mistakes. Hard to give her all the blame at only 13 years old, and it would hurt to let her potential go to waste. The short suspension should be a lesson for her - The real punishment well be the permanent damage to her reputation. Yeonwoo, can you review one of the games? Let's see some of the "brilliant" moves.

My impression is that she is young and a year is a long time in her development and career as opposed to the effect this would have on an adult player who has already established their career. As a minor she also is prone to poorer judgement than we expect from an older or experienced person. I am older and I can tell you a year is not so long for me as it is for you. Could there be competitions that are online (for example when players are in different countries), but there are judges present with each player?

How did she cheat in online tournament? Do pros have an online match at home?

1 year of imprisonement?! That is way too much, ridiculous. I'd worry more about that than the 1 year of suspension for the kid.

Can you go over the game in which she cheated?

13 is pretty young. Give her some slack. For the future the rule must be like this: cheating = ban for 3 years, next time: elimination for good plus for every cheating the accused must pay to KBA the double of what he has earned so far alltogether (including ad deals) with Baduk. I'd just apply this rule for anyone who plays serious pro tournaments because if you are grown-up enough to play for money, you are grown-up enough to follow rules.

13 years old it’s too young, and you can see that many young prodigies in baduk (either Chinese, Korean, Japanese or Taiwanese) can’t stand the pressure, so they either fade away, get disenchanted with the game or do this (Adults do this too though, one of the oldest professional chess players was caught cheating with AI last year, but obviously for him the pressure was to stay in the elite of chess). That her punishment was not so harsh, I think it’s ok, she’s too young, I don’t remember making any wise decision at her age, and I didn’t have the pressure to become the very best at anything. Unluckily for her profesional baduk is such a small community that she will bare the stigma of being a cheater the rest of her career. I, in her place, would retire (out of shame), or at best suspend my comeback for at least enough years to become a wiser person, and adult.

Mmmh, I know a guy who cheated a few times in Canada. He even cheated in the national amateur league and won against the top player of Canada, but he never confessed. Everybody knew he cheated because he was 4d amateur and won against 7d and his matching moves with the AI was really high. I wish he would have been suspended, especially because he is 30 years old so he has no excuse. For Kim Enji though, I don't think it would be worth it for her to be suspended for 3 years : for a 13 years old girl, 3 years would be equivalent to a QUARTER of her life, it is a bit insane in my opinion, isn't it? I think 1 year is enough for a child. It feels very long at that age.

aren't the pro's screens filmed during official matches? if the screens are filmed then someone could see when a player opens anything other than the game and stop them on the spot, right?

Cheating in tournament is like hold up a bank, but never forget she didn't hurt or kill anyone. Good to be punished, but dont put too much pressure on a 13th girl. Many young people very weak, can suicide more easily. Go is just a game.

I wonder what was the background of her cheating. Was she pushed to cheat or are her parents demanding that she could not handle it and found out that cheating is the only way to solve parents demands or was it just her call, was she just curious how it will end up. There is so much what could have happened and it should be considered too. In Europe if a kid does something wrong than the blame and responsibility for the crime goes to kids parents. After all she is only 13 and might not have to understand what "taking responsibility for my actions " does mean. I would not be surprised if she did not, she is a kid after all.

At this point I'm just really curious, if she didn't confess, nothing would have happened?

13 years old people make mistakes. Expulsion would be too much. Length of suspension depends on how much it hurts the player - if there is little pain, then the temptation is higher. I chatted online to an online chess cheat once. He just wanted to see his grade get higher, but got caught... he admitted that it was stupid and not satisfying, so didn't do it again and I was grateful he shared his reasons though they were a bit muddled. I think he was probably young too... Some peolpe commented they thought for "amateur" games it was OK to use AIs for openings (c.f. fuseki). As a way of training, if you did it consistently for, say, 20 moves, I guess it would be less harm to others, but I still think it is the wrong way (for everyone) as I believe you need to learn to correct mistakes after play. But no-one will get caught on that... how do you tell the difference between someone who trained and learned using AIs and someone using an AI in live play? what do you think??

The punishment is definitely fair in my opinion. As it was mentioned, quite young, she admitted to it, and she is a strong pro otherwise.

It's good that they settled on a light 1 year ban. She's still very young and has a lot of people's expectations on her shoulders, I'm sure she won't make the mistake again. On the other hand, 1 year in jail for the amateur seems way too much. There are people who get similar punishment for much worse crimes.

A 1- year ban should be coupled with a monetary fine, otherwise the consequence of cheating is just too light. In the Go world pros start at such a young age so what is 1 year out of a 17 year career for a 13 year old? The KBA should issue out a fine as high as the price of a title. This should deter people more from cheating because they will basically have to work for free for the KBA if they cheat. And a 2nd time offence should be a ban for life.

This is also happening in other online games : www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/16/chesss-cheating-crisis-paranoia-has-become-the-culture One year ban is too little to set an example. Personally, on the amateur level, I strongly suspect that a few of the players with whom I have played go online have used AI whilst playing with me. This practice should be discouraged at all levels. Thank you for your tutorials.

이것도올리넼ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

This is a major problem in amateur online games. It's not possible to police this kind of behavior, but often times you can just tell that the person is cheating. For this reason I have noticed that the amount of super fast blitz games have gone up, which is too bad because blitz games are not good for learning in my opinion. I like longer, slower games, but to keep people from cheating, not many people like to play those anymore, and I'm forced to play blitz, which I don't like.

If you’re going to cheat, doing so when you’re 13 is a good time to do so. She’s lucky the punishment wasn’t more severe.

Ah make her accept all challenges for 1 yr

Using AI in a money tournament shouldn't be an "oopsy" in any case. What if someone used an exoskeleton in the French Open tennis tournament that made it easy to win all games? I doubt they would be excused with a mere year of suspension. I get the Korean sentiment because who wants to tear down a 13-year-old who has the hopes of carrying the future, but I'd also say that it's possible that these expectations laid upon her are what made her resort to any means possible to keep on winning. Even adult athletes across all sports struggle with this problem through their careers, how can you expect someone 13 years old to make mature decisions about these sorts of moral questions? Perhaps one solution could be that children shouldn't be allowed to participate in this type of competitive sports against adults, but of course nothing comes without its own downsides.

Holy crap. I'm a public defender and see the kinds of things that get people sentenced to a year in county jail (less constrictive than prison), and I can't imagine someone going to prison for a year after cheating in a game. That is mind-blowing.

Cheating is a very serious issue, but I actually think one year suspension is the right call. She may be a pro, but we have to remember that she is still a child. For one, children experience time slower, so that one year is going to feel a lot longer to her than it does to us. Further, children more easily give in to temptation, so that should be considered when making judgements. Of course, once she comes back, there should be more security around her games in particular. Just because her suspension is up, doesn't mean it goes away. She should still feel the ramifications of her cheating for a few years. The goal is to prevent cheating in the future and mitigate the damage done by the cheating. If expulsion is the only way to prevent further cheating, then that is the correct action to take, but I think for children a 1 year suspension and further guidance is the way to go. Honestly, I'd even say a second cheating incident should only result in suspension for children, maybe for a second offence they get suspended until they are 20 years old. That makes it a minimum 2 year suspension for those barely under 18. For adults, a 3 year suspension for a first offence seems good to me. And expulsion for a second offence. There comes a point where you need to be in control of yourself and just accept that you can't win every game. In general, I think cheating needs to be punished harshly, but I also think that a single offence should not ruin your entire career. And I think we should be more lenient towards children. They are professional players and are typically considered adults as far as their career is concerned, but they are not and that needs to be recognised. Also, sending someone to prison for cheating in a tournament? No. It was a high-stakes tournament, so maybe a long or even permanent ban from future tournaments is appropriate, but not prison, that is ridiculous.

how is KimEnji now?

She/he wasn't smart enough no to get caught. The lesson is cheat better.

Young players often do stupid things, I know a young chess player named Nihal Sarin is now 16 years old who used to cheat in Internet tournaments several years ago, but today he is considered one of the three most powerful chess talents in the world, so I think it will be fine after several years.

Mam,but plz tell about clear games analysis of great games.We r from india.

She is just a child. She must be hold responsible for her cheating, but not only her. She probably did it because she felt pressure from others, maybe her parents or something like that. It's a sad accident. But she's just a child.That's the pervert side of baduk professional world.

Am I the only one who thinks that 1 year prison is too much for cheating, even in a tournament?

Just out of curiosity, how unlikely would it be for her to have played these super optimal moves on her own?

It was only a matter of time, given serious online competition. Maybe pros should play with an invigilator in the room when competing online. But what about a few years down the line, when we can have computers implanted in our brains? Also, people who train extensively with AI can be expected to play more like AI, especially if they have trained with AI from a very young age. How will we tell the difference between cheating with AI and "learned from AI"? Using AI in a serious competition is a kind of fraud, but a year in prison is perhaps a bit excessive. Kim Eunji deserves more toleration, but ONLY because of her age. If she was caught using a stolen credit card or writing bad checks, she would not be sentenced to prison, whereas an adult would.

Habitual line stepper, she's worse than Tom Brady. But its weird to hear about a little girl cheater, but idk she's messing with the integrity of the game

It's not her fault for being cheat! It's the organization's fault that allowed players to play in a competition without censoring it properly! Can't rely on ethics when it comes to money or prizes

I think someone that young doesn't deserve to lose their whole career over a child's mistake : at this age you don't have to maturity to realise how serious cheating is. So I agree with the sentence, although I agree with you : it could've been a longer suspension. But I'm pretty sure she'll remember this lesson her whole life though, if not for the suspension, it'll be for being seen as a cheater for many years to come. For an adult cheating though, it's another story, I'd definetly advocate for definitive suspension.

i think a 1 year suspension is fine

A few comments. Since online games became a very important part of playing go, the character of playing go changed dramatically. Like, for instance financial transactions or energy distribution: one had to learn the hard way that for a large part their business was not about finance or energy anymore, but about IT. Being heavily dependent of IT comes with significant additional risks that have nothing to do with playing go, but with the IT environment. One needs a thorough risk analysis of all the relevant threats and vulnerabilities, on any aspect, like being it technical, human related or otherwise. Cheating is one threat, being the victim of a misclick another, probably there are a few dozen or so threats and vulnerabilities that have to be addressed in a serious way. Sufficient measures have to be defined against those threats and vulnerabilities, at the organizational, human and technical level, and about prevention, detection, repression and correction: the web of measures makes sure incidents will hardly ever happen, and if so, will be handled appropriately. These measures must be implemented well, and tested and checked on a regular basis. Part of it should be a well trained incident response team. Another crucial part is awareness: all involved should know about, and understand the risks and measures for their part of the job. In the serious IT businesses, this is the working field of IT Security, that makes sure the whole set of measures stays in good shape. Of course, this process is closely connected to the primary business processes, being it finance or energy, or go. Cheating at go is the same as doping at cycling, you are stealing results and money from those that don’t do it. It is thus a very severe violation, damaging the integrity of the sport. And it should be punished accordingly. The one aspect that bothers me here is, that aspiring top players at go are so young, like 13 years old. They are children still, living in an adult’s world. It may be culture dependent, by I think you cannot treat a child the same way as an adult when it comes to violation of rules, where the sense of responsibility is not the same, at least not fully developed yet. So, punishment, yes, of course, and the whole affair open to the public is punishment in itself. One year suspension for a child seems more than enough to me. And there should be a sense of forgiveness too, the affair should end after that year. A stupid idea maybe, but the Korean Baduk Association could as well throw a small party at the end of that year, celebrating her welcome back. There really would be no need to mention something like “never do it again”.

I think, you have to use at least 2 cameras in prize money tournaments to make cheating more difficult. Cheating is more likely for players who want to become top players. The 1 year punishment seems a little low, but she`s indeed really young. Everybody should get a second chance! Clear AI-regulations should have been made earlier, in chess the two cameras are now already standard, it should have been known that the Baduk-AI is not weaker ;-)

exam and competive game are not the same, in real life you can just search information, you are not in perpetual exams, but in competitive game it's indeed a no sens to cheat, because it's your own skill we judge.

I feel like the go association in Korea should state the punishment of using AI clearly instead of discussing the punishment after someone cheated. Personally I think 1 year is appropriate as she is only 13 yrs old. If she was 16+, I agree with you that 3years+ of punishment is needed.

My first thought was ok she is 14 and the judgement shouldn't be that hard but after thinking about it i changed my mind. She should get the same treatment then every other pro player or young people shouldn't be allowed for tournaments at the highest level when they need spcial treatment. In other words, if you wana call yourself a pro then akt like one.

How one can be a pro player, if she unable to realize she WILL be caught after reproduce 90% of AI moves? Isn't go a game for clever people? Anyway, cheaters must be exterminated. So if go associations will not prevent her from playing, I hope other players will do it instead.