Dislike engaged ... 🤣

@Peter Kurten In my humble opinion, I agree.

Sometimes women served on the council? It was stated women may not serve on the council.

The parts you mentioned about Klingon ship design is good but it only works if the "Enterprise" TV series didn't happen. The uniform ship design seen in that series tends to contradict your talking points on Klingon ship evolution.

@@2bituser569 True, but they also say tgat's because women could not be the head of a noble house. But in DS9, we also see this rule can be disregarded if the circumstances are sufficiently weird.

Its more than that. Worf's honor is actually more human than it is Klingon in that he cares about his personal honor, as in, being an honorable person, more so than appearing honorable. He also cares about the spirit of the rules of honor far more than the letter of the rules. Other Klingons tend to care more about Face and what they can get away with, while Worf is doing his damndest to live up to the Klingon ideals he was taught as a kid, but is doing all with that tinge of Earth culture.

@@hawkticus_history_corner Fair point. Human idealism and romanticism are a key factor either way.

The Alliance, with the Federation is the End of Klingon Feudalism. It makes the Chancellor an absolute monarch. Also the Dominion war and Cardassia war, may have killed off rivals..You oppose Gowron- ok so you need to win more honor by attacking the Jem Hadar more aggressively- suicide. You hang back you are shamed

Kinda like pirates in a way

He's just a poor boy, from a poor family, cha'DIch! cha'DIch! ka'vek 'ay'vamDaq nuHmey tIQeq Bah!

@@maisiesummers42 Hadib'aH!

I actually wrote my reply before I read yours. I think we're on the same wavelength about the flaws of Klingon society. I'd be interested in what you thought about my comment, right above yours.

@@drewjackson3858 When you view a youtube page it puts your own comments at the top. From the view of others, your comment is not above Joe's.

@@maisiesummers42 Actually I knew that. Just forgot. Thanks.

I can see this and it makes perfect sense. There is a ship building guild, that is linked to the High Council and ships can only be bought from the guild. Then depending on the wealth of the House, the types of ships they can buy would be limited to B'rel's and Kavort's with a few older D7's and K'tinga's used as flag ships of the House's personal fleet. The more modern ships would be used by the Klingon Defense Force exclusively (which in this head canon, is commanded by the High Chancellor only) and with a few of the more loyal and honorable houses being given or lent one of the newer ships as a reward. This explains the similarity in design, though armament and capability would vary depending on what a house could afford. Kind of like how the US and Russia sell armaments to other countries, but they are the stripped down versions without all the bells and whistles of the countries that build them.

Sounds like the situation in Dune, where all of the ruling houses have to rely on Spacing Guild for all of their FTL ships

@@pl1guru Well could be that. Or to add to that ... if we take into acount what we learned from "Klingon Academy" (very old Game) ... we do know that there is an Academy for Warriors. Seeing how the Klingon way of life is basically trying to be the best at one thing. What if there are other Academys that teach the same way? Basically a House of Engineers. Proud and always trying to better themselves. Why are all the ships the same as other Engineering Houses? Well because every Son and Daughter goes to the Imperial Engineer Acadamy. While most of Klingon Society is in the Warrior "cast". I bet that Kingon Farmers are proud too, supplying the Forces on their Missions. There have to be certain Medical Houses too. Because getting the Space Flu and dying from it seems like the worst way to die for an Klingon. And every new Planet holds new Viruses and Bacteria to attack the Klingon Body. So what if every "Aspect" of Society simply has its own "Imperial Academy", and that leads to the uniformity in every Aspect of their Lifes. This would also fall in line with the "Tradition is King" Argument. Strengthening these Traditions in these Academys which would also lead to the slow rate of inovation within the Empire.

No, Klingon technology would be a result of their political and economic organizations. They were war like and focused on function rather than form.

Warships probably count as tithes to The Council, and I suspect crews are mixed, as to lessen the chance of "excessive loyalty to house not Empire", and it gives lesser houses a chance to serve. Also, powerful houses probably bitched about being depleted in war, feeling that other houses should share the burden. Same reason WWI was devestating to towns, because Battalions, Regiments and Companies would often be composed of all able-bodied men of said area. So losses in that respect could practically wipe out the men of said town.

Use the example of the Napoleonic period and that only encouraged the commanders to go for the glory and how boldness and aggression won the day. They seemed to make it work

Glory is dangerous. It picks unnecessary fights and will run from them if the reward and risk of glory is unfavorable. But I come from the William Tecumseh Sherman school of warfare. I'd sooner trust Romulans than Klingons. Klingons make a sport of finding excuses to fight.

We saw that in ENT with the Klingon doctor when they kidnapped Phlox.

Interesting but in the real world scientific advancement is driven by warriors(military sector invents most of our tech) also enterprise has that laywer who sees his work as a battlefield so I could scientist's having that same mindset

Or the houses of Westeros in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, (the Books).

Absolutely agree on the problem of mono-cultures in sci fi, it's one of my least favourite tropes. Star trek usually does pretty poorly on breaking that mold. Although a notable exception is the Vulcans and their offshoots. We are shown quite a lot of different groups interpreting their philosophy in different ways, and the backstory does a good job of explaining why their logic based ideology became so widespread in the first place. It's far from perfect but imo it's the best example of internal diversity in a non human species in star trek. As for the great barrier explanation, i'm not so sure. Yes the klingons are warlike, but their cultural focus around martial honor and following tradition and ceremony prevents that warfare from being as destructive as it could be. They lean towards a tendency for person to person combat and while we see several times that klingons act dishonorably it almost always carries significantly negative consequences with it. Forexample if a klingon had lead America during world war 2 I have a hard time believing they would have chosen nukes over a traditional millitary campaign in Japan. Human constituents expect victory and an end to the suffering and inconveniences war causes and thus are more willing to accept overwhelming destructive actions. Klingon constituents, while they expect victory as well, also desire to be given opportunities for personal combat and glory to display their martial prowess and rise in the ranks, thus are far more likely to desire more conventional warfare, which while still destructive isn't quite extinction level destructive. So imo it makes sense that their culture while warlike, would have prevented them from wiping themselves out.

In Star Trek: Online and some of the novels, it's revealed that Qo'noS was invaded at some point in its history by bug-like aliens. The Klingons kicked their asses and stole their technology, and that's how they became a space-faring race. Regardless of jokes about Klingon scientists, they had to have had some understanding of the technology they acquired to not blow themselves up with it (Star Trek warp drives are usually powered by anti-matter, after all). It actually makes a lot of sense thematically -- Klingons didn't *have* to give up a more "primitive" system like feudalism to get to space, so why would they?

Unlike Klingons, earth doesn’t follow one great leader. One great council. One great emperor. We don’t follow one great religion or believe we will go to one great afterlife. Build a civilization on those things, and you’ll get a monoculture

But is that due to lore reasons or real wolrd stuff like the klingons and their culture not being fully developed until later movies and shows?

@@darthchingaso3613 Based on things like Discovery and Enterprise (unfortunately), we see evidence that Klingon culture went through various periods of tumult, and in DS9 Jadzia Dax mentions that there was even a brief period of time where the empire experimented with democracy. It seems reasonable to assume that one of the things the Klingons tried was a centralized, military autocracy before their feudalism roots reasserted themselves...

that would be kind of a mixture of a plutocratic and aristocratic Republic... the citizens (with a census, so only taxpayers with a certain minimum income) could vote, but only those who could afford a campaign and later spending the time ruling instead of working, so in the end only those who already were nobles were up to vote. The Klingons on the other hand seem more like a militaristic almost (later) roman society: conquest brought honor and even more important it brought looted riches into the houses, so they could also afford a campaign or they were part of the old families that basically owned the majority of the land and became rich this way. This would also explain why a house can rise OR fall very quickly if one of those requirement were achieved or not like with Duras or Martok.

But Klingons stole the cloaking devices from Romulans, which makes Klingon ships useful for ambushed raids

@@slavicvasenin6685 actually the Klingons traded with the Romulans during their brief alliance. The Romulans got the D7 cruisers, and the Klingons got the cloaking device.

Kirk and a handful of top officers had no trouble crewing a Constitution-class cruiser either, when the scriptwriters needed them to.

IIRC the Idea post-TOS is that they are a mix between Vikings and Samurai

You find a lot of crossover portrayals of Klingons by people who are in the Society for Creative Anachronism's Greater Household of the Dark Horde, in short, the Mongols. So, Space Mongols, with that same blend of honor, martial culture, and ruthless opportunism. Although there is a Russian aspect as well, in the Cold War setup of TOS.

There was an episode in Season 1 where Wesley makes some passing reference to Klingons being part of the Federation, but that element of the universe was dropped pretty quickly later on. The final version of the relationship between the Klingons and the Federation that the TNG writers settled on was the two groups having a formal state of military alliance between each other.

There was no emperor in 300 years before the clone of Kahless was installed as Emperor.

and the fact they admitted to the 25% difference rule imposed on STD designs also proves that the original IP is not being used. thus *NOT CANON*

Not by me, no idea what you even commented

@@LoreReloaded Oh. Then it's YT being weird again, huh? ...Siiiigh... Have you seen Cynical Review's Video on youtubes escapades? That recent one?

@@loturzelrestaurant I honestly have no idea. I’ve been pretty absent from KZfaq for a bit. I know if you get enough reports they shadow ban, that happened to Short Fat Otaku. And no, I haven’t

@@LoreReloaded Ok. I check out SF-Otaku then, and you should cherck out Cynical Reviews, at least for the important topic of YT. See ya.