thanks for the info

Hans really likes Kramnik. I'm sure they well get together

I hope Agad sees this and clarifies it in the next video, there is no good in proliferating misinformation especially about cheating

But if that is the case, then why did Kramnik play fools mate to Niemann after his loss.

I think that at that point he thought Niemann was cheating but took it back later. This was before Kramnik was contacted by the fan.@@RyanHellyer

lol

He will be the only winner.

All-nude women world chess championship would be interesting (no lipstick tubes allowed 😅). Although I suspect the cheating issues mostly concern males by a large margin. Anyway I highly doubt that Niemann was cheating in this game and I suspect Kramnik is the only high lvl chess player thinking that, this time.

Very good observation! I agree, good players "fail" because they assume Hans is cheating and that breaks their mental concentration.

a contemporary to "the Magnus effect". xD

I guess being a known cheater is an advantage now. Even more reason for people to be cheaters.

@@will224488guy Parahm has cheated too in the past and everybody knows that but he doesn't have the Hans effect

@@will224488guy yeah you can just hide your cheating through convoluted methods and laymen will support you for being legit

AI standing for Anal Implant

😂😂😂😂😂

It was condescending as fuck coming from a known multiple time caught cheater.

Not only does he let Stockfish help him improving at chess, he now has chatGPT to help him articulate. Well played, AI

Hans even admitted to cheating numerous times via online chess. I have no sympathy for a cheater, not even a so-called reformed cheater.

@@will224488guy He didn't cheat this match. And it was never proven. I'm not Hans fan but we have to be fair.

LMao @@dodekaedius

Nice

Unreasonable and proofless accusations of cheating is a worse threat.

​@@DrLawIrk💯

@@DrLawIrk "Unreasonable" - My God, what have you been smoking? 🥳

I really didn't like this Nieman guy before, not really sympathetic about him now either. But I constantly find myself defending simple points against bandwagon s storm. Cheating is ever looming threat in any sport, group or individual. And athletes just deal with it. No one is leaving pitch, field, track or pool if there's someone coming out from a ban on the other side. I swear, chess players for the most part are the whiniest & most arrogant lot.

@@aventura8491 Ok. Show us the reasonable side. We're talking about Magnus match of course.

Kramnik topalov was all Topalov seeing boogie men, not Kramnik.

​@@abj136context?

I remember Magnus not rating Kramnik well on Sanity score.

​@@aminesosa8676He's russian, what do u expect

😂😂😂

Inferior players [your 7 year old] or especially better players _having a bad game_ throw the toys out of the pram by accusing opponents of cheating instead of looking at their own deficiencies - it's an easy _but cowardly_ way to preserve ego.

Well this is different, hans ain't 7 years old chump.

​@@ensiehsafary7633It is and far Beyond any responsability. There IS thing that you own and thing you dont. Difference IS how would you raise them.

And that proves that Hans is not a cheater, obviously. #logic #facts #factsdontcareaboutyour feelings

Strangely mature from Hans.

A very mature response from Hans, in heavy contrast to his previous public tantrums.

It is an excellent "chessic" move from Hans, something which Kramnik would need to respond to if he is really serious about his accusations.

Read : Guy past his best looking for excuses

Lessons learned from the legal teams, I bet. Good on him for keeping calm on an accusation now. But It will still be hard to clear his name from all the online cheating he did.

Russians are not always reasonable, lol, lots of pride involved and I suspect Niemann knows Kramnik is unlikely to take him up on this offer, though Niemann is offering money so if I was Kramnik I would set a high hourly rate with a guaranteed minimum and I would take him up on the offer.

Why would he waste time with a cheater?

OTB CHESS DOES NOT Solve anything. Hans has been caught cheating before !! Also, Hans coach or former coach has also been caught cheating before. Another issue, the devices that can be used to cheat CANNOT BE DETECTED by ANY of the current scanning devices used in OTB chess events. NO one, not anyone, is safe until the scanning devices are changed to instruments of higher efficiency similar to the ones used at airports to detect drug smugglers. They really need to change the equipment used to detect cheating devices.

This can be said for any ethnicity. @@raylopez99

@@KancerKowboy You can look at this from different perspectives. If Hans Moke Niemann was sincere in his message; that'd imply (if given the correct circumstances to assess it) that mr. Kramnik would spot any cheating or dodgy business quickly, while Hans would be under the supervision of the aforementioned. To spend time with a potential (how likely this may or may not be) cheater, would be very beneficial in proving or disproving that they are, in fact, cheating. Once again, I'd be personally impressed if Hans Niemann would stand this 'Kramnik test'. And if not, it'd be some money in the pocket, plus a subset of anecdotal evidence against a cheater. Once again; it's all a matter of perspective.

The fact that he’s known for beads pretty much negates any maturity he can ever have

He had a full year to come up with this comment. Also he was waiting for this comment to respond with his own comment.

Easy, when you have chatGPT available

@@J4-4J-J4 Hanzssays you're more than welcome to go into his bedroom and inspect for beads in person. He's more than happy to compensate you for your time.

@@J4-4J-J4That was a meme made about him, he had nothing to do with beads ? It has no basis in reality, it’s NPCs like you that prove why disinformation can be so dangerous.

Kramnik blundered a "g" here, and I didn't even cheat by looking in the dictionary.

Kramnik showcased his strength by taking 2 loses against 2600elo player 🤪

​@@macmacIDAD It's rapid, and a little over 100 Elo difference is not enough to chastise someone for. Also, I suppose you'd talk the same junk about Hans, being as he has been losing to quite a few low rated IMs and GMs (2300-2500 Elo range) in his latest classical games since defeating Magnus at Sinquefield Cup.

Why you are so fast to not only judge, but condemn the guy? What do you even know about him and his life?

@@Cecil_Augus chess literally speaks for itself ... Hans games were far from computer perfect.... kramnik just has an ego the size of sun.

Where does Kramnik call Hans á cheater!?

Very true, he's between a rock and a hard place.

He won't ever be redeemed and his response was thought about for over a year. He had a whole year to think of it. His last reply to his cheating didn't go over well with any1. So he had to change his response and had this response waiting for any1 who accused him this time around. But make no mistake about it, hans is a cheater. Maybe not this game, maybe not the next, bit he will cheat again and again just like his past has shown him to do.

@@somebody700 cheating playing the top engine move is the dumbest way to cheat anyway. Smart cheating is knowing which move is the most humanly possible, but is the most complex move. Smart cheating is impossible to detect as countless of grandmasters already mentioned, like Fabi, Hikaru, etc, as they look for the move that is humanly possible, but at the same time the most confusing line. Don't forget that these are grandmasters, they see 5, 10, 15, 20 moves ahead, if they want to cheat smartly, it would be near impossible to detect. That's why accusers heavily rely on statistics and compare a cheater's statistics to the majority of the grandmasters, and Hans' statistics are crazy. It's either he's the most high-variance grandmaster ever with his up and down graph (one day he's beating Magnus, the next day he's losing to a 2200 rated player) or he's cheating. There's no in between

Hans can't cheat. He knows every move he makes will be examined by GMs and engines.

Usually I see Aman close the position down and then try to flag the cheater. When a player is creating brilliancies in the middle game but can’t handle a pawn-rook endgame under time pressure, something is off.

The thing is. At the very moment. If there is one player who is NOT cheating it would be Hans. With everyone looking at every damn game he plays he would be stupid to do so.

Wasn't he accused of cheating from the way his coach would stand in the crowd, giving away the winning move?

He knows people are too dumb to catch him

Dude has cheated several times and been caught. Lol

@@justinacevedo4353those who get caught don’t change, they adapt.

​@@justinacevedo4353 so? we're talking about current events

@@justinacevedo4353 He admitted to cheating more than once. That is a blemish that cannot ever be erased.

How rediculous is it to blunder a drawn position with the occasional winning opportunity and then say you were cheated?

If Magnus was being cheated that would have impacted his accuracy, you can't just use that as evidence in itself.

​​@@joshs7160my point is emphasised by the fact that the lost players had their chances a plenty

I would also like to point out that both players made punishable mistakes that could have turned the matches throughout....only if they are realised and punished though.

@@cmwontner hans most likely cheated against magnus. stop defending cheating hans

Good thing you’re nobody

He's stated evidence on the C squared podcast. Idk if you agree with it or not, but he has stated what his evidence is.

but you know Hans did cheat online in the past on numerous occations?

​@@rohan1864that is not evidence

proving that somebody cheated is very very tough but... on the other hand, its not even like Hans had a crazy accuracy in this game

Lol. He's not even immune to accusations in OTB games. Ask Magnus.

That doesn't solve anything Hans can cheat in OTB just as easy The scanning devices used in OTB events are not good enough to detect some of the reliable devices for cheating Read my post above

​@@naldebolis this the reason for magnus dominance??

@@parthsavyasachi9348 Magnus has been measured already, throughout out his career. No abnormal climb to the top of chess. Hans, on the other hand, has been CAUGHT CHEATING before AND having a performance better than Fischer when Hans is a nobody and AFTER it is known that he has cheated. Your example is galaxies away , not remotely close.

@@naldebol so mangus is not yet caught cheating.

I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to assess the site's ability to detect cheating

@rohan1864 That is your opinion. You are entitled to that. Anyone who plays online chess is well aware that only a very small percentage of cheaters are caught. Again, it is human nature. Every single sport that exists has seen it over and over again and will always see it. That my friend is called reality. I highly recommend you try living in it.

​@@rohan1864They'd lose a Huge percentage of subscriptions if they cracked down on cheating. The Twitch Format is the Worse, because its dual subs, Andrea Bortez has a huge teenage boy following for whom the game of chess is just a means to the bigger game of Streaming, Trolling, Subs Clicks & Views. Thats not a knock on it, it just is what it is.

@@mkn2929 1. I'm not your friend, but I hope you find some 2. I don't know why you're getting so pompously defensive xd I am a member of the Everyone who plays chess online group. It's obviously impossible to erradicate cheating, people can only be caught after they've committed it continually for some time, there's has to be a big enough sample to draw conclusions - but that's the only thing that you can claim to be obvious, and the sample sets of games for serious players are large. You don't know their methods, furthermore, even if you knew them you wouldn't understand them, because from the way you carry yourself I can tell with high ceratinity that you have no mathematical, let alone specifically probabilistic background. So you've no way of assessing their quality, obviously, and so you have no way of telling how greatly they exaggerate it. Your original comment is obviously a bit funny in how it lacks self-awareness in this regard, it's not my fault, it's yours, you wrote it, I only pointed it out. Then you write some extremely vague, unrelated monologue in return, and pretend to yourself you showed me where my place is. There's only the 2 of us here, you can chill, just try to be more self-aware next time.

Amen

Gosh

💯 BINGO 💯

pretty much sums it up, Hans made his bed now he gets to sleep in it for the rest of his career.

Yeah, Magnus is a real Piece of shite, no question about it.

Or: impose permabans like other e-sports to instill confidence in players that while cheaters may cheat, they WILL get punished severely and they can never do it again. Doesn't matter if you're a kid or not when it happened. You cheated someone out of money and livelihood--hence, you get the banhammer.

The reasons are obvious. Same reason why the first suspect in a robbery is the last guy who robbed the place. Too nuanced for most people, of course.

I'm not a Hans fan at all, but Kramnik is clearly out of line here. And not for the first time.

I agree with harsh punishments for those found cheating. I actually believe Hans has had enough punishment at this point. I also would like to see the same derision for those who accuse others with no proof. Visual or audio proof. Radio frequencies or something real. Not analyzing games. That is BS. People have good days and bad. Is Magnus cheating when he finds 5 perfect moves in a row? Nope. Why not some other GM, then? No, it needs to be real evidence. If people have a problem and think it is too easy to cheat, then don't play the format and push for changes. I think 99% of the accusations are just whiny babies.

Hans is a proven cheater, but sure in this who knows, that is his problem always be suspected, he never can wash his well deserved reputation out.

Agree. It is ridiculous. These people are children.

Imagine ignoring the fact that Hans has already admitted to cheating himself in the recent past, then coming here and imply they have no cause because there is no proof that he ever cheated lmao... pathetic is the right word.

Haters be hatin' Vibrators be vibin'

Strenth*

@@Aiballa Shranhhhtgh*

@@Aiballa bro are you making fun of yourself?

​@@Aiballastrength

Strange*

I agree. We should also ban players who accuse others of cheating in a game when there is no evidence. If it is found that there is no real proof (physical video or audio evidence) of cheating and you accuse someone, there should be a penalty. It is slanderous. It would fix all of this 'cheating' business, and we could get back to playing.

@@bassmanjr100 only accepting your "real evidence" is not enough. There is always the evidence provided by statistics. Simply put one can create a chart that shows that the strength a player has correlates to a certain accuracy and centipawnloss over time. And then there is a consistency in results players have depending on their elo.

at this point, it just looks like plain bullying

someone posted a timeline and showed none of this was referring to hans by kramnik. agad got the timeline wrong.

@@somebody700This wasn’t about Hans but Kramnik had changed his profile earlier referencing Hans and made like a 40 minute video with some nonsense analysis basically suggesting Hans is a cheater. Hans response was to that, so it’s pretty similar situation as it’s been shown.

In this game you can clearly see that Kramnik made so many inaccuracies and actually gave Nieman the edge.Its so ridiculous to then accuse Nieman of cheating when he(Kramnik) didn't play well.

Amen

Kramnik is not a player of integrity. Just ask Topolov

🤡🤡 That you?

Personally, I think he has more than paid for his sins. The time to move on was long ago. Bring evidence or shut up.

@@bassmanjr100 shut up what? learn some english my dude... i'm just saying everything from a neutral perspective and if u understand the language, u would have gotten it... ur just ardently defending him and it's fine... go tell that to Hans haters lmao

But this person has a history of cheating

@@salehibrahim3997....so every game now he cheats online if he has a good game lol....he was even accused of cheating OTB because Magnus had a bad game - getting ridiculous.

So does Kramnik Just ask Topolov@@salehibrahim3997

​@@tak5256you rather believe someone making an accusation without evidence just because you are a fan. Alright, glad you are not in any position to make judgements

​@@tak5256but on what move., it seems so blatant when u dont even speak what was cheaterish?

@@tak5256 Nothing has been proven about him cheating OTB though. A lot of analyses have proven to be completely dishonest and have proven to be manipulated.

@@tak5256 hahaha such an unbiased take

I can fully understand top players not wanting to play against someone like that, and I don't think they should have to, at least without the offender serving a lengthy ban. However Kramnik is going way over the top with his accusations. He even accused Robert Ramirez of cheating in a game that finished in a draw! A high accuracy rating by your opponent means nothing if your own moves are not very challenging, and if (as Kramnik did in his games against Hans Niemann) you make mistakes, you're likely to lose against a titled player, however good you are. Unfortunately I think he's allowed the cheating issue to get into his head and it's having a detrimental effect on his play.

Magnus may be the greatest player but he looked like a total ass during that fiasco. 30 year old cry baby.

Except most top players have a team working with them including Magnus.

@@shrewm Of course they have coaches. There is still a lot of benefit in that. But the possibilities for self-coached people are way better now than they used to be. They can still read some old books, but on top of that, they have all the tools for analysis, they can test their ideas against random opponents over the internet etc.

Computers have changed chess a lot, absolutely. That is a completely different claim than saying one is playing against so many cheaters (thinly veiled accusation against Hans). Now of course Hans himself is known to have cheated online, but the likes of Magnus, Hikaru, Alireza, etc. play online plenty and only encounter cheaters fairly rarely. If Kramnik is only directing it at Hans that is one thing but claiming it's a widespread issue at his level... idk

He was nigh unbeatable for a long time.

Do you mean the former world champion for 6 years? I think he won one or two games then

former world champion 2700+ curren rating, ya right the dude never wins

I know he is a former world champion and a giant of theory. Im talking about his recent performance against top gms, as far as ive seen

The way agadmator put it, it did sound wrong, if vlad did say this about nieman. Nieman is a talented gm, although he is weird, but he is a gm and talented for sure, he is not a random guy from the bar and the library, he might play some good moves no?

Exactly. People do not understand this and discount Hans' cheating since he was a kid when he started (take note of that: STARTED). Many e-sports outright permaban whole teams for less drama yet somehow Hans gets off scott-free. People nowadays should learn about something called "consequences".

Especially when you can't explain your own moves 😂

That's why I watch on mute

​@gravytraindrumming5167 The old man lost. He should quit acting like a child. If he has actual video or audio proof of cheating then produce it. Otherwise shut up.

Someone should hand him a kleenex next time.

You wish.

pERHAPS IF HE WAS BLINDFOLDED@@quantitativediseasing9988

Its hard to play a known cheater, you always have that in the back of your mind.

The thing with Hans is that, while he did cheat in something like 10-15 games online, there is no evidence of him cheating over the board. Statistical experts have analysed his moves, he was patted down, searched with a metal detector, a time delay was added to live broadcasts of his games, and there was zero evidence found that he cheated or that he could have possibly cheated. I agree he shouldn't have cheated on those online games, but online and over the board are very different.

His so called "compelling statistics" are f*cking jokes. Dude just compared his opponents accuracy when they play against him vs when they play against Magnus. Well, flash news. Magnus is much better player than Kramnik therefore his opponents will always have higher accuracy against Kramnik than against Magnus.

​@@kujklokpI couldn't careless about statistics. Bring video or audio proof or give it up already.

@@kujklokp Thanks for your carefully considered response. I disagree with your analysis. Accuracy is not a statistic that depends on how well your opponent is playing. It depends on making a move in the position that decreases your advantage or increases your disadvantage the least. Kramnik's statistics were also not limited to accuracy; other parameters were also considered. These other analyses converged on the same conclusion: that a noticeable percentage of titled players are using assistance during online events.

@@StevenStJohn-kj9eb Accuracy most definitely does depend on how well your opponent is playing. There's 0 chance Magnus would play with 95+ accuracy against Stockfish or AlphaZero.

There's probably a modest effect of opponent strength. However, it's not large enough to explain the numbers Kramnik was seeing. There are situations in a chess game where it is easy to make the best move (e.g., forced variations) and situations where it's difficult (e.g., complex positions). A strong player can beat a weak player quickly by creating complex positions and avoiding forced variations. However, Kramnik was evaluating Titled Tuesday games in which he is, on average, rated higher than his opponents. Indeed, part of his analysis involved looking at the accuracy of 2500 rated players and noting that they played at very high accuracy. Kramnik would readily admit he's not as strong as Magnus, but Kramnik remains a very strong player who is comfortable in complex positions and is capable of putting pressure on opponents. Kramnik is, however, slower than many players of his strength. It may be that he puts less pressure on his opponents in the final minute or so of a game, allowing them to play at higher accuracy. This might account for some of the differential. Kramnik, however, found difficult to explain numbers for players playing against Caruana and other elite blitz/rapid players. His data were not limited to his own opponents. I'm surprised you're so quick to discount his analysis. It's an important issue for the chess community, and making progress on it requires an open mind and the willingness to learn from one another's perspective.

Correct, and Hans is a repeat offender who lied and downplayed his cheating.

While I understand your concern, people need to be forgiven and given another chance. At the same time, any success a reformed cheater may have will always be tainted with the specter, no matter how unlikely, that he or she did not play fairly. Is the reputation of the game more important than the individual? I lean more towards forgiveness and loving the individual than holding a grudge and punishing the player.

@@smhollanshead No. Magnus Carlsen started playing sub-optimal moves against him, caused by lingering fears of playing against someone who had checked computer lines as they were playing. If you don't bring the hammer down on cheating in chess, you will eventually end up with a situation where the optimal strategy is to intentionally get caught cheating while your young, to gain that mental edge on your opponent. "yeah i could be cheating, i've done it before, better visit the toilet a few extra times" There is no other sport that being caught cheating, gains you that advantage.

@@dyBBelyBTASTIC I suggest there is no human endeavor where cheating is the optimal long term strategy. While there may be some short term advantages to cheating, the long term results are disastrous. Because chess is played in the real world, people must be prepared to face and deal with cheaters. I suggest exposing the cheater and shaming them for their bad behavior is the best result you can get. Then encouraging them to play honestly. I find shunning these people for mistakes and sins we all make is unworkable.

@@smhollanshead Cheating has shown itself to be a optimal long term strategy for Hans, he is again being invited to tournaments, his ability to make a living playing chess has not been impacted in the slightest. Yet to this day, the mere fact that Hans once cheated, gives him an advantage. You just watched a game with a former world champion who himself said as much.

I agree...all those found cheating and admitting to it should be banned for life

I agree. As long as we have the same for accusers with no evidence.

Banning people who blame others is much more important imo

Hans has been caught cheating 2 times already. He should be ban on all forms of chess where money is involved. People who defend him are his own kind.

@@elyas4637amen

Yep

You're good. I'm about 2000-2100 online and consistent. If you are 2000 at your peak then it means you are as good as me on a good day. What you need to do is study openings more, and, this is key, cut down on your blunders. If you can do that, you can consistently play at 2000. As for football, they actually rank teams by the Arpad Elo system, I once saw this online.

Thanks. I know I'm being a bit lazy...learn more theory, concentrate and look for sacrifices, forks, pins discoveries etc I'll get round to it.@@raylopez99

Granted. But Titled Tuesday is not professional competition.

@@D0BR0VECE it pays 1000$ and chess pros angle to win that money. This makes it professional even if it's not controlled like higher level events.

@@abj136 Still not professional competition. Sporting event maybe. But one that has nothing to do with the federation. This is the deciding factor, not how high profile players are. Anyway, I said TT because that's like their biggest day to day event. They never really stated what it was.

Sad but that's how it works. 😂 Idiotic generation. Just because it's "sad" they allow a known cheater to continue to play at high level. Utter insanity. Everyone agrees about the threat of cheating ruining chess but let's not even bar known cheaters from high level competition. Way to keep it fair. 😂 stupidest shit I've ever seen.

Cheating in 100+ games is not a "mistake". Jesus, people nowadays know nothing of consequences and that's how cheaters get away with so much crap.

​@@akaneriyun4774same thought. Calling "cheating" a mistake is ridiculous. Next time, people say "the good Hitler made some mistakes"

It’s obvious the cheater will definitely miss all the top engine moves to ward off suspicions

By that logic even Kramnik didn't play the top engine move.

​​@@gamernoobnephilim8691haha if he plays top moves, he's cheating, if he doesn't play top moves he's still cheating 😂

That’s what the top players think if they play top moves they prepared if someone else plays it’s cheating. There will come a day when players will be playing in their underwear so that they cannot hide any cheating devices 🤣

@@curious_banda his cheating engine was cheaper than hans😂

You mean Big Vlad doesn't know about pre-moves? lol

Sounds kind of narcissistic. "If I the wcc don't understand that move than that guy must be cheating".

Honestly, it comes across as a bribe, doesn't it? "I'll pay you to stop ruining my reputation with accusations of cheating", no?

better for HAns to say...lets play 15 games over the board same time format, and If my average playing strength is less than what is evaluated during the AI cup, then you can reserve your accusation of cheating.

Internet: Still, cheating remains relatively uncommon for over-the-board matches. Regan [a FIDE IM and professor of statistics] estimates the cheating rate to be one in 5,000 to one in 10,000 for in-person International Chess Federation tournaments, representing about five to 10 credible cases per year. By contrast, he calculates the cheating rate for online games to be significantly higher, at one to two per cent.

@@raylopez99you’re a bot