The Vector’s 10m range nerf is a great step in the right direction I think. Something that could potentially apply to the rest of them.

Honestly making their min range worse would be better than making their max range worse,if you nerf the min range it would mean it falls off quicker but still has a good max range

The main issue seems to be that movement speed is undervalued. The movement speed alone is a massive advantage, and yet it doesnt seem to come into the rest of the weapon balance considerations. The smgs would probably be balanced if all the movement speeds were the same.

@@TorMatthews Honestly my take. People keep saying recoil make SMGs OP while not realizing they're running 20% faster than the rest of the playerbase.

Movement is fine, the issue is damage against armor. SMG should make swiss cheese of unarmored or light armored players, but it should take longer for armored individuals. Armor needs to be revisited in Battlebit, because it can be one of the most frustrating mechanics when it works (especially helmets), and the most unreliable because at times, it feels like it does nothing. Kris can shred through Exo like nothing if you aim anywhere on the fleshy body.

I mean the groza p90 and fal aren't smgs

I think the low bullet velocity is something people don't take into account often enough. engaging targets at 50-100m with an smg ...yeah if they're stationary you can beam them, but if they're moving you're adding a bunch of prediction requirement due to increased travel time. if they zig zag at all you're not hitting them reliably at all with the travel time. I only really noticed this after playing a lot with the ak5c recently, which has 700 velocity after being a p90 player for some time. the difference in how reliably I could engage targets at range even with worse recoil made me surprised.

P90 is better. FAL is hard* to use because of the recoil, and sucks at range.

Yeah I can understand that mate. The 60 round mag is fun, I just find it too limiting on my play style.

ahh yes the 60 round vector users those the ones you always pick up as a medic after they raided the position you are attacking killed everything but died themselves you get them up they reload and they go do it all over again lol

​@@Rift2123that's what makes it the most fun

Yup! It is FANTASTIC for breaking through hardened enemy defenses in places like the map with the subway tunnels.

My assault rifles shouldn't be getting out classed by SMGs at medium distances. At least, that's my feeling.

@@DaedalusRaistlinI definitely feel the ARs need a buff of some kind to be picked over SMGs. Idk what they’ll need but at the moment there really is no reason for me to pick the SG550 or M4 over the MP7 or the P90

@@CrypticBlightsame. I'll use the M4 for really long range maps, but for most maps I don't feel the slightest need to switch out the P90 any more.

​@@CrypticBlightno ARs don't really need a buff SMGs in general need a nerf. They need less range and less visual kick when they hit. They fire pistol cartridges they were made for usability and control not range and stopping power. Things like the MP5 have way too much damage range for a 9MM outclassing ARs TTKs at mid range which it shouldn't be.

@@notsoracistraspberry4168 that’s probably needed too. I’ve tried the MP5 and it feels better to beam people over super long distances than the AK15 or even SG550. I also think the flinch damage ARs to do SMGs should be increased too for some closer range fighting.

Appreciate the thoughts mate, definitely agree on DMRs.

Except in Planetside 2 where higher rpm had a high chance of desync where the bullets would stop existing occasionally.

​@@JohnFromAccountingugh ikr and I liked to play with smgs, if they could somehow fix the net code that game would be soooo much better

I agree with a damage range nerf,but smgs arent really supposed to have much recoil due to their caliber

Something is def off about the latest update. The game doesn't feel as good anymore.

@@OGSuperDirty yup there's like a half second delay now before it give you an X confirmation hit that was not present prior

Or its just the playerbase decreasing and you match with higher ping players

@@ChampionGaming could be it's hard to tell

Definitely agree mate! Cheers!

I would just like to say that you described the current situation perfectly.

@@MOSSBERG1740 I made a nice long post in the Steam discussions, but it fell on deaf ears. It's probably too long to post here.

Milsims get it right with weapon ranges.

@@spetsdod Post it here anyway man, I'd love to read your in-depth critique tbh.

@@MOSSBERG1740 It's not specifically focused on this one topic. I discuss several hot button topics. I am replying to a thread already in motion here: ----- The single best reply in this thread that clearly defines what is happening as BBR evolves... "People are learning the game and are exploiting the game mechanics to cheese the win." I paraphrased just a bit, but that's the crux of the problem. When the game was new, it was fun and different, and while i had a terrible KDR (still do, in fact), I had a good time playing it and I never felt much like I was fighting a pointless battle. As people continued to play the game and get better, the mechanics of the game became more ingrained in the game sphere, and more people started learning to exploit them. Leaning, prone diving, jumping, air movement, helicopter physics, etc. All of these things have turned a fun game into a frustrating mess. Leaning: should have a reasonable delay between leaning and being able to accurately aim, to accommodate for the lean spam. Lean all you want, but if you spam it, you pretty much shouldn't be able to hit anything. Leaning should be a stationary, peek around a corner to get some cover / concealment mechanic, not a way to cheese the hitbox. Prone diving: when you hit the ground in a dive, it should be at LEAST a second before you can even ADS, let along fire. Prone diving should have a randomized delay, plus a second, to address the running into a firefight, diving to the ground and maintaining a lock on your target, again, cheesing the hitbox. Jumping: I'm sorry, but no one should be able to fire with any semblance of accuracy while jumping, certainly not a shoulder fired weapon. I've seen people jump spamming while spraying an M249 and getting 50+ yard kills. Air movement: jumping out of a building on the fourth floor and somehow landing on the second floor is just a broken physics issue. Once your feet are off the ground, you continue in the same vectors until you touch something solid. Helicopter physics: completely broken. Skilled pilots (and more power to them for learning to be good pilots), can fly a helo in an orbiting circle around a target while rolled at 60 degrees, and never miss a beat. I've seen helos fly straight downward at a target, slowing in mid air, then pulling out level before hitting the ground. I've seen them flying upside down. It's clear that the in game helo flight model is based on an RC helicopter, not the way physics works in the real world. And while we're at it, add in some kind of dedicated anti-air tool, Stingers, for example. Helos are becoming dominant on maps because they are too hard to counter if you don't have a team working to counter them. In a game that has game modes dedicated to team objectives (CTF, Conquest, Frontline, etc), there is a complete lack of focus on teamwork because the game rewards non-teamwork related activities far too high. Sniping and sitting 100m away from any objectives picking off targets gives you more points than actually capturing or defending objectives, but does nothing to help your team win. Make a TDM mode for people who just want to run around and get as high of a score as they can without playing / working as a team, and reduce the scoring for kills outside of objectives for the other objective based modes. Give those of us who want a team based cooperative experience a place to have fun and play as a squad. edit: Another thing: capture zones are WAY too big. It is far too easy for a single player to hide inside the 500m (edit, actually it's closer to 2800 m square) square radius of a capture zone and block it from becoming a spawn location, regardless of how many people there are defending it. Make it so that the more defenders or attackers there are in a location, the smaller the radius is where a player can block it from being captured, or used as a spawn location for the controlling team. Don't reduce the size of the zone, just the effective radius from the objective. If there are 12 guys standing inside the objective circle, an enemy would have to be within 10m (or some reasonable distance) of the actual center of the objective to block it. There should also be some mechanic for how long it takes to capture an objective based on how far away it is from other controlled objectives to prevent the lone solider from sneaking around to the very back of the map and back capping points in the rear. I know... your team didn't defend, so they deserve to lose the point. I don't disagree, but as I pointed out above, there is a complete lack of team play in the game, and it's all but impossible to get a team willing to actually play the objective mode. This would at least help offset that a bit. Speaking of squads, remove spawning from any teammate. Make the squad leader the only player that can have teammates spawn on, to prevent the respawn rush. Allow teammates to spawn on a transport vehicle as long as there is someone manning it, but when it is left empty, it no longer counts as a spawn point. This gets heavily exploited in CTF. Medics are definitely OP. There needs to be a limit on the number of times a player can be revived. Anyone can revive a player one time per life, but a medic can revive them twice (or one extra time if someone else already revived them), but after that, they are dead and have to respawn normally. While were talking about revives, I'm not sure if this is swinging too far but possibly consider that headshots are not reviveable and definitely not revivable after being blown up by explosives like an RPG or C4. No medic in the history of ever has re-assembled a soldier in 10 pieces and put him back on the battlefield with a bandaid. (This might be too extreme, since there are a lot of spray and pray headshot kills, and this might be too drastic of a swing in the game.) All weapons need to have accuracy bloom and damage modeling based on the kinetics of the round, not based on some random understanding of the effectiveness of the weapon. There is no way to argue that a 9mm round has more kinetic energy than a .308, or a .338, etc. I tend to run the SCAR-H, and getting shot in the face 4 times with a .308 is going to be a lot less survivable than 4 or 5 chest hits (even head hits) from a 9mm, especially at range. This is all subjective, and would have to be tuned and tweaked to get the right balance, or course. For accuracy and damage bloom, make it so that pistols start to bloom at 7m, PDWs bloom at 20m, SMGs bloom at 25 to 30m, AR's bloom at 75m, LMGs bloom at 100m, DMRs bloom around 200m, and leave snipers to bloom after 500m. I know, this doesn't simulate the real world, but this is a game and scale is compressed because you're looking at pixels on a screen, not objects in reality. Damage starts to fall off around the same ranges. Make weapon choice matter. At the current moment, there is no reason to take anything but an SMG for virtually all fights, with the exception of a few of the ARs for medium to long range encounters, or sniper rifles for long range encounters. It would be interesting to see the actual game statistics for number of kills globally by weapon, and distance. Sniper glint: simple solution to sniper glint (well, simple to describe, might not be simple to implement). Glint is only visible to a player if the sniper can see that player though the scope. If a sniper sitting (as they usually do) 600m away from objective A, is looking at objective A through his scope, a player at objective B, 500m to the west of objective A, should not be able to see glint. A player at objective A who is not visible through the scope, should not see the glint since the sniper isn't looking at them. Add glint to all optics on sniper rifles, regardless of length, once this new glint mechanic is in the game. Reduce the zeroing on the rifle based on the optic, not the rifle. A medium range optic should not be able to zero the M200 at 1000m. It should top out at like 300m, since it is a medium range optic. But by narrowing the glint field, it makes stealth and positioning matter to the sniper. I really want to keep playing the game, and I want to enjoy it, but ultimately, the ever growing occurrence of mechanics exploiting is making it really hard to do.

Yep, bullet hose weapons are a crutch weapon cause out of the 60 bullets spewed out in a couple seconds only 5 need to hit. No other weapon archetype can negate such a lack of mechanical skill

Very glad mate 😂

Yeah, looking at DMRs those are basically useless you can kill faster with ARs in semi auto after accounting for the overwhelming vertical kick and how slow it is to fire each shot

Yeah good call, forgot to consider secondaries.

@@CAMIKAZE78 I only know because I've been trying to grind up the pistols, the USP looks awesome with the Osprey

Some of the gun balance baffles me today. Why use the AR like the SG550, ACR, Famas, etc when the P90 and MP5 do way more damage at a higher rpm and very little recoil. Like how the heck does an smg do more damage than an AR. Fal is the most brain dead gun of them all as it shreds in close quarters, faster than the already powerful AK15 and SCAR. The rpm should be dropped by 600. Like why the hell does this gun have a faster rpm than the AK5C which is technically a worse Groza. It's rpm is so generous that you can retardedly kill someone from a far ass distance with its generous 3 shot guaranteed to kill luck. Through it does have a shorter magazine and you burn through ammo quickly as that was majority of my deaths, but no doubt this is the most unbalance weapon up close with pre patch Kriss Vector.

L opinion. the mp7 and mp5 only need slightly reduced range. the p90 and fal need a smallish nerf (knowing the devs, they will be slammed into the ground). The groza is fine how it is.

FAL is awful at range. Balanced gun. SMGs are not awful at range and are often better than assault rifles. Not balanced.

Cheers mate!

A good ak15 user is gonna 2 tap you

the ak15 is one of few guns that when modded correctly can 1 hit 1 headshot kill almost anyone. Guns like this are banned in pro matches (other games but with the same mechanic) because 2 bullets is literally too fast for any human to react to. the ak15 is like that in this game, but obv not as bad because of recoil and lower fire rate.

Nah p90 is weak

i unlocked the p90 today and have been spamming it. I remember being destroyed by the vector and unlocked it after the nerf. I will make others feel pain until the devs ruin the gun permanently

If you wanna grind for weapons and unlocks all over again......

aug is useless trash

Chad, I also use scorpion instead of vector.