That will be our next video

Still don't miss The Finke though!

Hey, How are you Big Fella? Book the flight and line up the beers....I'll bring my tools.

Do you use a thicker oil to combat the large piston flow? If so what oilwt do you recommend?

@@garywiant6543 No we use 5wt and utilise the shimstack to limit the flow

There may not be anything wrong apart from the fact that you may not like this anomaly. The outer screw is often engaged in the lower adjusting mechanism via a flat tab into a slotted grub screw. It is the grub screw that ultimately determines the position of the rebound rod, not the external screw. If pressure builds within the fork tube (which it will) it may pop the outer screw back a little but the internal grub screw will remain in position. The outer screw is sealed by an o-ring. If this o-ring loses a bit of tension, the screw can move a little. This movement is of little consequence.

That's ok. It seems a lot of tuners face this same dilemma. Oil has to move to the back of the mid as a matter of priority. This is necessary to promote maximum oil stability. This is required for maximum damping performance and quality outcomes. The float provides this ability as it offers very little resistance to initial fluid movement building its force after this has happened. The trampoline set up does not. Having no float makes absolutely no sense in fluid dynamics. We often make the mistake of giving factories too much credit. It is very easy to make the SSS work so much better than what the factory has provided......

Dal Soggio

We customise each setting. Our valving is generally based around rider weight, discipline and skill level. You will find that there is enough range in the adjusting circuits to accommodate various types of terrain.

No worries

The pressure or reservoir springs are there to manage fluid consistency and prevent the possibility of cavitation. The spring pressure combined with compression damping force should always be stronger than midvalve force in order to ensure absolute stability. Given the tendency for a lot of tuners to seek more and more from the mid without consideration of this fact tends to lead to trouble....making the spring lighter excaserbates the problem. Its the same as letting gas pressure out of your shock. I have never yet replaced a pressure spring with a lighter one.

@@shocktreatment5495 Thank you very much for the detailed response. 👍

The correlation that he was referring to is the mid valve float to the base valve bleed shims. The standard mid valve float is .25 and it makes for a smooth initial stroke. This adds confidence for traction and slow speed movement.

Firstly, due to the preload involved with the trampoline..."float" is not an accurate description. We are trying to initiate flow through the mid as a priority. Given the sheer fluid volume the mid sees compared to that of the base, resistance here has a far greater effect. The spring and actual float creates a better feel and greater stability. There really is no greater adjustability with the trampoline beyond preload and this to me is an unwanted scenario....so why would you want it? If you can find a benefit, I am keen to hear it. As for the thicker shims.....that's just a variation on stack thickness. The villian here is area, port growth rate and discharge velocity. You certainly can beef up the stack to increase velocity but growth rate remains the same resulting in poor stroke control. Once again, the moment of inertia involved in stack opening is still greater than what is ideal and in fact, made worse with a heavier stack. Not every new idea is a technical innovation and the trampoline is another attempt to offer a compensation for the loss of stroke control presented by such large port pistons. Unfortunately it is very difficult to get suspension people away from suspension theories and back to the underlying laws of hydraulics and fluid dynamics.

Not a fair comparison......The WP is a nice alternative to stock but the design brief of the Dal Soggio was always going to make it that much better. I still prefer the CC bladder fork over anything that WP have produced so far. Dal Soggio have taken that concept to the extreme with better materials, force values and coatings.

@@shocktreatment5495 Would love to see next some info on Shocks: Pistons, Bladders/Free Piston and High Speed Adjusters etc

The drawback with the SSS is the pressure system. It provides an unwanted element to the fork movement. You can simply take each cartridge and compress them (out of the fork). The difference is staggering. I did a video comparing initial movement requirement between a WP CC cartridge and the KYB SSS. You can see it on our facebook page. The KYB takes 4 times as much force to get a similar response to the WP

I wouldn't. The matching of port areas means that the mid and the base ramp up at the same rate in order to maintain consistency. You can simply adjust your shimstack.

@@shocktreatment5495 Thanks for the reply. I'm not too far off on the shimstack. Curious if since I had purchased these G2R valves back in 2014 if the latest recommended settings had since changes.

@@michellatour150 If you wish to email me your settings along with your rider details, I would be happy to make a recommendation for you. We use these valves more than anyone else worldwide and have some great settings.

@@shocktreatment5495 Thank you very much for the offer, I'll dig up the infos of the original Race Tech recommendations and, the settings that I've finally settled on after many many experiments. Merci!

That model had enough preload on the spring standard, but that doesn't mean that the spring could not have "sacked out" a little, reducing it's length. Alternatively if the bike was purchased second hand and you don't know the full history, it may have an aftermarket option in there. If either is the case, then a spacer could be installed. Prior to this I would explore the following options.....Is there a slight leak from either the lower cartridge seal or ICS seal? Also is there noticable friction between the damper rod and the lower cartridge seal which could inhibit full extension?

The bike is new its a fantic 250xx model 2023 the forks are the old model not from the fourstroke al seal’s in the ics and cartridge are new when i bleed the system the final step a little oil air escapes after this i compress the rod full it wont fully extend no more the ics piston spring have a little free play after that but no air in the cartridge

Also really enjoy your videos.

Yes

Basically the level of damping generated vs the level of damping required. Sometimes you may find that the amount of damping is fine but the balance between low speed and high speed is skewed which will affect traction and control

The stock springs are quite firm already. The dive is generally attributed to the valve port growth rate. If you have a local distributor of Race Tech products, you could simply order the valve through them. I would be happy to assist you with set up details.

@@shocktreatment5495 thank you for the answer...I already ordered the spring so i will try it just to know.

@@shocktreatment5495 I could order from race tech but iam interested in your fork öeg and total setup. I will email you when its time and see what we can do. Thank you. Cheers from Sweden

When they introduced the trampoline style midvalve....a few years now

@@shocktreatment5495 I need to understand what that looks like.

@@mann277 Pull a set apart. Its quite interesting

The Showa forks actually have a better build quality than KYB but few people will judge a fork on how it is built. Most will judge it on how it feels. This comes down to the selection of shimstacks and springs. (tuning). I would happily own a Showa fork as it is very easy to tune it for a better outcome than what comes standard from the factory.

@@shocktreatment5495 I don’t know about the inner build of each fork just the feel of every KYB bike I’ve ridden. I do know showas respond more to clicker adjustments

You can have 10 guys ride the same bike. 7 might love it, 2 are on the fence and 1 hates it. It doesn't make anyone wrong, it just highlights the fact that people are different. Any set up is merely one of several million possible configurations. If you didn't like one setting....you are judging the force not the product. Technically, the stock valve is poo.

@@shocktreatment5495 If the stock valves are crap how come all the factory teams with showa and KYB factory suspension aren't running RT valves? All the A kit and factory stuff that I know of is running stock style valves or something really close. Those stock valves have fairly small port entrances, so it's not as dramatic as you make it.

@@chrisgall4664 I think you are giving too much credit to some of these teams. There are better people working in the backs of shops than out of the backs of semis. You too could be a factory mechanic if you are prepared to be exploited and give up most of your weekends. Its a high turnover occupation. I prefer to take my cues from science rather than teams. KYB, Showa, WP "are" all using RT style valves. It was Paul Thede who led the way and all the companies have beaten a path to high flow pistons. However rather than pay RT, they made their own pistons using this very concept.....they just took it too far. You need to give up on the unfettered belief and just question for a minute. Why make a 35mm piston and use a large clamp shim to shut the port area down? Kind of counter-intuitive.....but highly indicative that the area is too great. But don't believe me, look for yourself.

How many factory forks have larger cartridges? The 52s from WP are the largest and the cartridges are no bigger. Why do you struggle with a gold valve........That makes no sense and only demonstrates a lack of understanding of displacement over area. It's simple hydraulic ratio. It's just maths....simple maths.

@@shocktreatment5495 I have had 2 sets of factory only Showa's.....both had 16 mm inner dampener (OEM IS 12MM) rods and BV's that had 24mm face shims...LSV was also larger shims as well as the BV Chamber being longer and larger. BV piston took 32mm face shims

@@dogger2186 Well I must say I have never seen a 16mm rod in any of the A kit gear I have worked with......but I have seen Showa copy the Gold Valve flat out. Particularly in their "A kit gear". This is hardly surprising. At one time nearly every technician at Showa USA came from RT with Scott Bennet heading up the team. The current stock Showas have hailed from the A kit design with their "14mm" rod and 39mm comp piston which is simply an expansion on RT thinking. Nearly every suspension company in the world has taken a leaf out of the RT playbook when it comes to valve design....I don't know why you struggle with the concept. If you know more than the guys at Showa you should send in a resume