Yea but everyone knows [redacted]

May I request the link to the documents you were mentioning? I'm curious and want to look at them myself. Thank you for being you.

Yo Kyle where is that link at? How you gonna lie in a video like that...

I want you to compare this to the show "For All Mankind." They BUILD a moon base, and so do the Soviets. Also, I'm a monster and I'd have a rocket-propelled net trap that launched them into the black.

history (.) army (.) mil /faq/horizon/Horizon_V1.pdf

Just trying to keep the commies from equitably distributing the moon dust.

They found something

Did someone say OIL?

Time to bring freedom to the moon!

Do you mean FREEDOM JUICE?!?! 🦅🇺🇲💥

That's so cool!

Yo someone get this gguy more likes to have a pin

Very cool. How where things like this rendered back then? Or is this like a matte painting?

@@darkthrone56 Often there would be more than one person working on a drawing. My Grandpa for example did a lot of the line work and someone else would do the hand-rendering in pencil and ink. He would work with his mentor Ludwik Ziemba who did the bulk of the renderings but over time as he learned my Grandpa would also render. Mike Acs's flikr account has gathered so many wonderful scans of the works. Many I never saw due to classifications.

that sir, is bad ass

i rather say alien salves 😂😂😂 looking at our "human" terms and history of colonization 😢

It's honestly my favorite bit of this whole lunar base report. "Just throwing it out there: death ray. Any takers? I mean it's pretty self-explanatory" It feels a lot like Dr. Evil's request of sharks with laser beams on their heads, but it turns out that it is not feasible so you just get ill-tempered sea bass.

The aliens won’t let us have one yet but Jeff saw it and said it was really cool

Doesn't need to be a laser, just a directed electromagnetic ray or perhaps a particle beam could work: X-ray, gamma ray, high-intensity UV/IR, proton accelerator, neutron beam, microwave

I like the "Particle beam" one. "Works really well, but the equipment's too bulky for man portability". Which suggests that they could have had particle beam emplacements for defensive use.

Kinda puts into perspective a bit what current day "off record" military is capable of 🤐

I'm sure there's any amount of technology that exists that we don't know about, but haven't seen because there hasn't been another large scale conflict that would warrant using it

@@hcolider2817 And letting the enemy know about it would be fucked up, at the very least we know the US army is developing ''recoilless guns'' which are basically railguns

@@franciscol3510 Railguns have huge recoil. Recoilless rifles are rockets (with reaction mass to push against). Were you perhaps thinking of "Caseless ammunition"?

I'm loving the one above it (Dumbo II): "Lighter and more accurate than Davy Crockett" Then in the very next box, "heavy and takes up a lot of space." The Davy Crockett was supposed to be a man-portable nuclear mortar.

I'm thinking more like lasers

Think 🤔 StarFish Prime 🌌🔆🌌 😉

Focused on winning no matter the consequences. That was the problem. Still is to some extent.

*cough cough* watch "For All Mankind" *cough*

@@jollygreeng1 it is nice but tbh by season 4 they did a lot of changes and ignored some stuff for ussr to survive past 90s that makes it hard for me to take it seriously.

Check out a series called "For All Mankind"

Ty for the recommendation bois

boy do i have a show for you. For all mankind on apple tv

Yeah, and for that matter just seeding the area with remote frag mines in ridiculous numbers could be very effective. Obviously a combined arms approach is better, but then again, if moon soldiers are bouncing around on foot in the open in fragile pressure suits, they probably deserve a Darwin Award anyway.

Regarding the electronic system and HUD you are talking about. It already exists. And they both just started being deployed in the US army this year. They are called the IVAS and the NGSW-Fire control which are separate but related programs. I believe it wouldn’t be very hard to reprogram them for a lunar environment. I imagine they would probably be even more useful on the moon due to the weight factor of them becoming null, and being able to take advantage of the longer distances bullets would be able to travel.

@@LDSG_A_Team vacuum welding of parts for weapons? I would assume that until a colony is able to produce material from raw form all the way to a finished product, it would be far more cost efficienct to ship nearly everything up there in complete form, at least for complex machinery like weapons. Less unused material to transport, only the bare minimum needs to go on a rocket.

This is canonically how UNSC weapons work in the Halo universe. The "Smart Link" uses directional data for your weapon and adds a reticle as an overlay to the user's HUD. This is why a lot of the marines have a visor or a little digital monocle.

Can't you just put a Lazer on a rifle? If you zero the Lazer and rifle on the moon it would probably be basically point of aim point of impact out to at least 100yards.

They would be better, but you would need an abundance of arrows or bolts. If you missed your target, they would keep on flying until hitting something far away.

Crossbow wouldn't work in a vacuum. The fetchings on the bolt (arrow) are what keep the flight stable. With no atmosphere the the bolt would end up tumbling. You might hit with the tip, or the knock, or sideways. At very close range it might be OK, but any real distance would be no good. Think of it like firing a stick from a bow here on earth.

Slingshot with caltrops

@@truthseeker2321 maybe a harpoon that could be reeled in then? it’s big, clunky, and sharp enough to pierce a space suit.

Jorg spraves magazine fed crossbows

One of the charts shown in this video literally shows the path of a projectile carrying a nuclear warhead on the moon

That is literally the NASA plan for if an astronaut passes away on the space station and Earth can't send someone up. Well, except for the fertilizer bit, but that is kinda the next logical step.

"What did you do today honey?" "I designed a *moon base!*" "Oh that's nice, I'm getting a divorce, you never see the kids anymore and we never make love. Why don't you love me anymore?" Sorry, the story quickly got tangential.

@@ApothecaryTerry: That's ok, he's already on the rebound with Selene.

Waging war in itself is a bad idea

@@Tej132 fair point.

counter argument: it would look really cool though

@@blackoutalt2339 that's a very weak counterargument, unless you're really that into "strongman" nonsense.

@@scarletletter4900 The joke ^ Your head

You may want frangible ammunition designed for aircraft [or] apartment use in the habitats.

I wouldn't want to risk punching a hole in the only wall keeping me alive. But that's just me.

well, the same as Earth until the bullet hits the walls & it suddenly stops being a pressurized environment... not that the person firing the gun would be able to notice for an extended period of time

Also, the "poke hole in suit and let vacuum do the rest" will only work for so long until someone invents armored spacesuits, or at the very least some kind of shield(which would be a high priority for anyone planning a space war) so investing in some kind of gun with high penitration potential that is easily aimed abd operated while in a space suit should therefore also be a priority, even if it's going to be left in a locker somewhere until the armored kosmonauts start coming up over the crater lip.

@@RipOffProductionsLLC nah nah, you're missing the real solution to Space Armor: Lightsabers!

A pistol can be a means of propulsion in zero-gravity, but trying to use it to propel yourself on the moon which has a whopping 1/6th of Earth's gravity seems very dubious.

@@smarchar You can do IRL rocket jumps on the moon with a large caliber pistol! 1cm higher per shot! Assuming you already jumped really hard

@@smarchar You were supposed to jump then shoot. Using an inflatable raft to carry stuff was a much less dubious revelation.

@@Bob5mith if it's a self-inflating raft, the charges could be useful - not on the moon, but in spaaaaaaace. You know, a real life iron man and far less well guided. Brief bursts could work - maybe. Sustained, x=rnd movement. For that example though, that's a lot dicey. When giving a class, I try to smooth such wide variables out to prove a point, then employ socratic methods to discuss why it was smoothed. One SME or even experienced STEM person now is the SME and the rest, bozos. Bozos win clown games, not real life situations. But, can have bursts of brilliant insight, which is the value of a group that otherwise is going to spout useless nonsense. Leading to the adage, committees - no one is as dumb as all of us combined. A not so gentle reminder that while we might blunder as a group to a solution, it's just as likely we'll come up with the bonehead award for the decade, proceed accordingly, leader. Included in my class, "admit when you fucked up, everyone does and accepts that, they mistrust the 'perfect, dear leader' accordingly, whereas they forgive a fuck up". And listen to, "This is going to sound dumb", that might just lead to an idea that'll get you out of the shit. It has for me. And I've been in far too many "in the shit" situations over the decades than I care to count. Boy, am I glad to be retired from the military!

@@spvillano I misremembered. This is the actual assignment: Scenario: You are a member of a space crew originally scheduled to rendezvous with a mother ship on the lighted surface of the moon. However, due to mechanical difficulties, your ship was forced to land at a spot some 200 miles from the rendezvous point. During reentry and landing, much of the equipment aboard was damaged and, since survival depends on reaching the mother ship, the most critical items available must be chosen for the 200-mile trip. Below are listed the 15 items left intact and undamaged after landing. Your task is to rank order them in terms of their importance for your crew in allowing them to reach the rendezvous point. Box of matches Food concentrate 50 feet of nylon rope Parachute silk Portable heating unit Two .45 calibre pistols One case of dehydrated milk Two 100 lb. tanks of oxygen Stellar map Self-inflating life raft Magnetic compass 20 litres of water Signal flares First aid kit, including injection needle Solar-powered FM receiver-transmitter

Never heard of that before. I would use a modified grenade that has smaller shrapnel for more area covered and eithervthrown or launched by high psi has gun or folded spring loaded metal arm like those spears that have a hold handle with a groove to get extra leverage of the range. The shielding is another design but don't fully know its works. All this back then.

I remember Metal Storm, could possibly be a decent idea for defense.

Funnily enough, Starfield has a few weapons that work on the same principle. I don't remember their names because I watched one video talking about them once, but there's 3 of them.

I remember it being featured on Future Weapons. Blew my mind at the time Lol but so did the the AA12 when it was featured on FW

In fairness, this was before the Outer Space Treaty was in place, so it was going to be considered. Maybe this played a part in the treaty's creation.

@DavidRichardson153 Quite likely. Or it was Elon Musk going back in time because he wants to be the one to nuke the moon first. Never can tell with that weirdo.

Was going to say those are some strong shoulders you've get there, but maybe you can shoulder launch a Davy Crockett on the moon, would be lighter and is recoilless

Honestly I think you could. You might want a bipod, a nice rock to set up on, and a buddy to help out, but it sounds doable.

Davy Crockett was vehicle borne, smaller Dumbo II was explored for moon ops.

Yes, but dont underestimate the casual jump So fences need to be high and wide

Yes and no. On the moon, coming into contact with razor wire goes from mildly annoying to lethal, but because of low gravity, it is much easier to bypass an earth scale barrier. Your razor wire would either need to be extremely high or (more likely) a field 20m thick.

Imagine trying to put that much stuff down while in a spacesuit....

In additional to the normal jump, we can also expect space soldiers to have a gas propellant to shortly propel them some direction in the air. Not only do you have to defend yourself from a jump, you have to defend against a double jump. Razor wire would at best be an effective delay in some kind of choke point.

My first thought was low tech via crossbows or spring launched projectiles, too.

Without air to stabilize the fins, or at least with "much less" "air" i wage bows would behave pretty weird

Modern crossbows? Sounds like a cheat! Certainly needs to be used.

Operating that with big astronaut gloves seems difficult

​@@orchdork775Wellllll. The bulky space suits we became familure with where not the first, not the ones planned for the US military. The first, and the ones the military had lined up where skin tight rubberized suits, cooling was acomplished via evaporation of sweat through the suit; in a vacuum sweat is far more effective, and warmth was provided by an fairly normal flightsuit that was metalized to reflect excess solar heat, and trap in warm ice crystals formed by the body. This worked increadibly well in our first missions to orbit, but it had some downside for the scientific community This suit design was abandoned in orbital flights and the Apollo mission because in zero gravity the sweat would get everywhere and there was a possibly it could corrode or otherwise short out electronics, and an certainty that it would corrupt any scientific data gathered. We needed moon rocks that had not been chemically altered by human sweat after all, and we also did not want to keep paying for all that extra weight that came from coating all electronics in rubber to keep it safe.

I noticed that too

What a great series

Had to scroll waaay too far to find someone who mentioned this!!!

That's why the moon bases in those illustrations were underground.

@@smarchar unless you stayed underground, it would still be a nightmare on the surface, every time you went, though. You'd probably have to have short allotments for service time in any lunar base. It seems like a non-starter to me that we don't have a way of dealing with constant radiation issues beyond walling ourselves off from the source of it, yet.

But what about nuclear waste radiation! 😅

@@IllustriousCrocoduck that's actually not a problem. We can bury it or just leave it in containment on site. It's not dangerous beyond our ability to tell future generations when our society crumbles from opening it up.

@@chuckles819 it was a joke.

Space knight does sound cool👍

Space knight you say, look for The British Interplanetary Society Lunar Spacesuit from 1949@@southernfriedwestcoaster

Chainsword combat for the Emperor

Now I'm evisioning US Army Space Knights armed with a spear-cannon. It's a spear, with a built-in shotgun. It's almost straight out of 40k, and yet would be entirely practical in a mid-60s Lunar skirmish.

I'm reminded of the saying "don't bring a knife to a gun fight".

It's also a load of hot garbage, sadly. The low initial projectile speed combined with inconsistent thrust made for a highly inaccurate weapon. Because it took significant time/distance to get up to speed, it also was completely ineffective at close range. The concept isn't all bad. Throw in some electronics for guidance, and a faster-burning initial launch charge (such as seen in recoilless guns like the M3 MAAWS), and you might be able to make something halfway practical (albeit terribly expensive).

I was waiting for that too (I grew up playing TSRs Star Frontiers). But michelin men bouncing around shooting shotguns is pretty crazy so I'm not complaining.

I was always wondering if an SMG-sized Gyrojet gun with a very large capacity might be a good weapon for suppressive fire for a unit on the move. @@JosephHarner They'd be relatively light because the 'cases' are part of the projectile weight, and the barrel and other components do not need to be pressure-bearing nor is a long barrel helpful, and the terrible accuracy (probably merely 'poor' accuracy with better-made ammunition?) might not hinder it that much when spraying 'from the hip' to keep enemies from shooting at you while you move? But the Cyberpunk 'smart' direction is also an option popular in fiction. Technically DARPA already demonstrated a laser-guided .50 BMG round simply steering itself with some kind of aerodynamic device, something self-propelled would be nice but not actually necessary for (gently) guided bullets.

That sounds better. Way better.

I would simply describe it as an alt-history where the space race didn't end. Describing it as you do is a bit of a spoiler as the race to the moon happens during the events of the show.

For All Manking is goated, Apple really produce a good show

I really don't like that that show has basically obscured the national geographic documentary about the apollo program that has the same name. Even if it is a good show.

@@Racecarlock what if it gave it more exposure tho

But would some how be considered to expensive to do due to “reasons “ and “increase cost of taxes”

$58bn in 1960 dollars to now is 600bn

@@brefasdra That’s what I get for commenting before finishing the video 💀 I’m too ashamed to delete my mistake

that is awesome

The military actually has a Zombie Protocol. It's in case of some kind of massive, quick spreading bacterial or viral outbreak. Once initiated all military personnel have 24 hours to make it to the nearest military instillation, doesn't matter what branch of service, and after that 24 hours anything that moves within firing range of the perimeter gets taken out. Go ahead and say that it's BS but I live in the middle of the world's largest concentration of military might. The headquarters of the USAF is less than 5 minutes from my house. Norfolk Navy Base, HQ of US Atlantic Fleet and the largest navy base in the world is 15 minutes away. Air Station Oceanna, where the Navy parks its aircraft when the carriers are in port (and when they are in port they are at the Newport News Shipyard getting repaired/overhauled, 20 minutes from my house), is less than an hour away. It is also the HQ of the Navy Seals. There are also numerous Marine Corps bases, Weapon Depots and Army bases within an hour of my home as well. I have talked to many service personnel and more than one has told me about the Zombie Protocol. I never ask them about it so they aren't agreeing to a question just to fvck with me. All I have to do is party with them and start talking about zombies and occasionally one will talk about it.

Yep, and you don't have to worry about weather effects on your lasers on the Moon, either. Clouds won't block or reduce the energy of your beam, or spread it. And from the other side, you can't kill innocent flocks of birds that happen to be flying by with a laser emplacement on the Moon, or mess with the weather by repeatedly superheating tubes of air your laser beam passes through on the way to its target.

makes sense, if it'll take paint off a fender here on Earth I'm sure it could be destructive at least at close range.

You with a sword and shield, me with a long lance, backed up by a bunch of archers...wow combat on the moon takes you back down to primitive combat.

@@markkarasik2211 Can you imagine the cool acrobatic attacks you can jump with due to the low gravity? It'd be awesome 😎

Another option is to make what is effectively a CRT TV but remove the screen and crank the power to get a highly steerable electron beam. The only input and moving part is the electricity. The downside is that it would probably get declared a warcrime if it isn't already. (And magnets could be used to deflect the beams, but i assume its possible to find a speed and firing angle that ensures the beam always hits.)

@@jasonreed7522 you're just describing the theoretical "death ray"

@@rantingrodent416 good point, I'm used to deathray being a generic term from fiction where a cartoon villain shoots someone with it and they disintegrate. I suppose IRL death rays are just any beam weapon that kills quickly. Probably the most important factor is figuring out how to make an immediately lethal dose portable and safe to operate. (A failed deathray would probably be a cancer gun, and that is definitely a war crime and not useful for battle)

Stealth Raptor bio-drones, with spear throwers mounted on the back 😂 anyway nice idea.

These would be susceptible to electronic jamming, standoff weapons, or even something as simple an up-armoured moon rover. Considering the moon's lower gravity armoured vehicles will be able to have much more armour than Earth tanks and weigh the same, and a ball bearing isn't really an effective armour-piercing projectile.

@@randompheidoleminor3011 Well I was thinking more for anti-troop defense. But if we are talking tanks then drones and satellites would have a similar a similar advantage in being able to carry heavier loads. Satellites could easily carry anti-tank ballistics and if you have ever seen the moon lander tanks would still be super awkward going over the moon terrain. And would be less maneuverable than a more agile drone floating in space being maneuvered by gas thrusters. I also assumed that any electronics would shielded from magnetic interference as a matter of course. Though, EMP could likely knock out any communication between drones and base so they would neeed an AI backup to return home or perform evasive maneuvers until comms is reestablished.

Why floating drones to defend a fixed position rather than land mines? I think you would want the drones for attack, not defense.

No, it would still eventually be pulled down. Most of the time. Maybe some smart person can crunch numbers and figure out the point at which certain sized projectiles could escape its gravity if fired with enough force.

No. You'd need a more powerful gun than even a sniper rifle. 1,681 m/s is how fast the shot needs to go. And even then, it will orbit irregularly and crash into the moon eventually because the moon has uneven density, and thus gravity. Read up on "mascons".

Yes, provided that you're shooting the projectile horizontally at the right speed and that there's no terrain in it's trajectory. There were even specific designs for "moon guns" with projectile velocities slow enough to avoid the possibility of projectiles entering orbit.

Don't have the budget for it lol 🤥

I bet it would be more expensive actually!

@@mopspear The Average US citizen pays more for healthcare in taxes than the average EU citizen ... and then the US citizen has to also get Health insurance so they can access healthcare .... the taxes only provide Medicare and Medicade which they don't qualify for ..but somehow cost more than universal healthcare elsewhere ...

The US Army already has universal health care.

@paperizzy, exactly what I was thinking.

I hope they do, it would be so badass to have the 51st state be the fucking moon, on top of the moon's resources it would cement the US as being the dominant power in space and earth for centuries to come if it was even close to break even costs to export the most valuable of the minerals and metals to earth.

The United States would be the state that SHOULD be there first. You think Ukraine got it’s defense budget out of thin air, think Taiwan has a large Navy to keep China out? Think NATO can defend itself without the help of the “world’s police” ? Grow up bro.

@@coreytaylor5386 how about "no power" in space. No countries. If someone builds something on another planet, you get to have as much space as you need to build your structure. Governments don't own the Universe, no more being a prisoner and a slave.

I wouldn't be mad to make it just a NATO base. Someone has to protect the poor thing from Russian "landers".

​@@battlelawlz3572wtaf?

This is true. The best moon weapon would probably be a rifle with a very big trigger and magazine well for use in thick gloves, and a large sight for use through a helmet visor. As for recoil, just go prone supported.

@@smarchar Fcuk sights on the rifle. Camera on rifle and HUD in helmet.

Vous savez que KZfaq a une traduction intégrée ?

Yeah I forgot about that 😂

Les français aiment toujours exagérer

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