Flair 58 Vs Flair Pro 2: Does size matter?
Рет қаралды 127,959
Күн бұрынA comparison of the Flair 58 and the Flair Pro 2 Manual Espresso Brewers.
Flair Pro 2: geni.us/7qx0ip
Flair Neo: geni.us/QDEh
Flair Classic: geni.us/uxft9
Flair 58: flairespresso.com/flair-58-fi...
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Flair Pro 2 Tamper/Distributor: amzn.to/3dN88B9
Fellow Stagg EKG Kettle: geni.us/oeay
INSTAGRAM: kyle.rowsell?ig...
The Website & Blog: www.kylerowsell.com
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Origami: geni.us/yeHtZHC
v60: geni.us/3faIhf5
Aeropress: geni.us/LKQ0P
Chemex: geni.us/CRQN
Fellow Stagg X: geni.us/ZkO4A
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Espresso Gear: prz.io/N0nLkmkHv
Third Wave Water: geni.us/k8Fcdo
Kyle Rowsell
Brew At Home Blog
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#manualespresso #Flair58 #KyleRowsell
TIME STAMP:
0:00 - Intro
1:04 - Prices
1:40 - What’s in the Box?
4:06 - Build Quality
5:30 - Brewing Espresso
7:22 - Pro 2
8:14 - Flair 58
8:55 - Clean up
9:25 - Taste
11:20 - Verdict
12:40 - Outro
Disclosure: Flair gifted me both of these products. No money was exchanged and they didn't get to see this video before it published. Thank you Flair for gifting me these products.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Which would you choose? The pro 2 or 58? I’d love to know!
@ArbathSahadewa 3 жыл бұрын
The PRO 2. Because that is what i have
@davidmaurice1294 3 жыл бұрын
If I didn't have one already, I'd have to go with the 58 mainly because of all the options it opens up for portafilters and tools. But I do have a Pro 2 and really enjoy it. Won't be upgrading for a while I imagine.
@johnnycashew9101 3 жыл бұрын
Got lucky, found the Flair Pro 2 on some random store online for 245 on sale plus coupons Found out about the Flair 58 the next day but to be honest, I feel more comfortable with the pro as someone who is more inexperienced with coffee.
@3izo73 3 жыл бұрын
I would buy the 58 since I have a lot of size 58 accessories, I don't travel a lot and I make 2 to 3 espresso shots at a time. Also I didn't have any of Flair machines and I have always wanted to try one of them.
@benjaminlush8570 3 жыл бұрын
La Pavoni ;)
@Tristin.Midnight 3 жыл бұрын
I don’t even care about getting about either of these. I just enjoy how informative your videos are, great comparison. Cheers
@brandonc1875 3 жыл бұрын
I think a comparison between the 58 and the Cafelat Robot is needed!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
It’s in the works 🤭
@brandonc1875 3 жыл бұрын
@@KyleRowsell looking forward to it, buddy!
@HardmanKnott 3 жыл бұрын
While you’re at it, compare both with no preheating!
@igalk474 3 жыл бұрын
@@KyleRowsell also compare it to it with the flair having 20g competition VST 58mm basket, as the robot is vst too but smaller radius
@igalk474 3 жыл бұрын
@@KyleRowsell also test back 2 back espresso with both of them, which is faster and more comfortable
@itsxris 3 жыл бұрын
Perfectly answers the question I couldn't in my Flair 58 review, great vid man 🤙🏼
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Ah thank you friend!
@danymeeuwissen5973 3 жыл бұрын
Another thing to consider is that you can change basket sizes in the 58, while the Pro2 has a fixed basket size. so you can from 10g baskets to triples and anything in between. Which gives a lot more flexibility in recipes. I'm 'better' at puck prep in the 58mm world too. But as you stated, different machines for different customers, both are definitely a great choice.
@dushk0 3 жыл бұрын
pro2 isn't limited by basket size but for same recipe you'll have to downsize the amount (thicker puck with same dose of grinds). pi*radius^2=surface area, so what percentage of the 58 surface area does the pro2 have, use that percentage of coffee and that percentage of the final brew weight, same fineness of grinding could be possible that way as well...
@MrGPVIDEO 3 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this review. I've been fascinated with the 58 since it was announced as it addressed a lot of my concerns with the pro2. With that said this review reaffirmed for me that the even though it may not have The pre heating features I've been looking forward to, the pro2 is such s competent machine. As someone who likes manual cars, manual film lenes and all things manually involved, I look forward to adding a flair to my manual device collection. Just 7 more weeks of saving and the flair 58 might be mine once it eventually restocks.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing! Thanks for sharing!
@daniellukoschewitzjensen2629 3 жыл бұрын
Nice video Kyle !! Thx for this comparison - answered a lot of questions :)
@digiscott2181 3 жыл бұрын
Already having a Pro2 - whilst the 58 might be something i look to in the future - no review has, as yet tempted me to 'upgrade' to the 58 - but a great and informative comparison - thanks!
@changfachou 3 жыл бұрын
Bro! Love what you do! Keep them great content coming!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks friend.
@robincooney1263 4 ай бұрын
By far the best review of the Flair machines that I've seen, especially good is the process of operating them
@timzlow 3 жыл бұрын
good. Also something worth mentioning is Flair Pro2 is less demanding when it comes to grinder. For the same dossage, Pro2 doesn't need to grind that fine due to the smaller filter basket.
@mauriciopastenes8490 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, just what I was looking for, a side by side of these two. Thanks! Keep up the great content.
@KyleRowsell 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching
@sebas9504 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Kyle, great video. I really liked some of the detailed edits (like the transition screens and the bottom left pricing animation). Was fun to see a blind taste test as well! Might be cool to see more of these in future comparison videos.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment!
@GrandStudable 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome awesome content Kyle! Thanks so much!!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Diego!
@AR-jx1sy Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed the review and I chose the Pro 2 because I needed a portable espresso machine. I’m usually an early riser and so spending extra time isn’t a deal breaker for me
@navishb 3 жыл бұрын
Great comparison. Was waiting for this one. U must have killer calves bouncing up and down all the time. Love the excitement in the vid. 👊🏽
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Caffeine helps. 🤷🏻♂️
@parasbhargava6047 3 жыл бұрын
Calfeinne!
@chemchemchemacky 3 жыл бұрын
Would you be able to use the heating element of the 58 with a wifi smart plug by any chance? Like could I used google assistant to heat the flair 58 when I wake up instead of going into my kitchen to get the process started?
@kallelgatbunton5439 3 жыл бұрын
Hi , im new here and this is my first time to comment of any vlog,Anyway just wanna say that ur vid really help me alot actually pro 2 is on my bucket list but lucky i saw this vid, which is i can upgrade for 58.Thank you!
@taejaskudva2543 3 жыл бұрын
Relatively new to your channel, and appreciating your enthusiasm and video editing! Just rewatched this after finding your original Pro 2 review, and I think you're right about differing audiences. I was, if someone were getting into espresso for the first time (good grinder first, of course) how does the 58 compare to boiler machines? Does it give you more bang for your buck? How far up in price do you need to go before a machine with a boiler is pulling shots as good as a 58? Can you get something comparable for the same price? It can't steam milk, but are you making other compromises?
@pimacanyon6208 3 жыл бұрын
I'd choose the pro 2, mainly for the price. But also because most days we'd be using it for just one or two shots. Once or twice a week, maybe two or three shots, so the workflow is not enough of an issue to justify another $200. thanks for the review!
@robojimtv Жыл бұрын
I think if it was your only way to drink coffee, the 58 is a good idea.
@sergea7524 2 жыл бұрын
Great video Kyle and thank you for the comparison. Have you got any opinion regarding the Flair 58 compared to the La Pavoni Europiccola. La Pavoni is so popular but significantly more expensive than the Flair 58. Do you think the price difference is justified? Is there a significant difference in the shot quality between those two? Thanks
@guillaumegirod8043 2 жыл бұрын
Is someone have a link of the basket he put above the kettle to preheat the flair pro 2 ? Thanks
@miin108 2 жыл бұрын
Hi! Love your videos! Can a change in grinder will make the pro 2 extraction get close to the 58’s taste? Like to get more body by having a conical grinder at higher rpm. Or more clarity by using a flat burr with low rpm? Thank you
@antman392 3 жыл бұрын
Great video. I just have one critique when it comes to your videos: the TV show clips. I don't think you need them and if anything, it takes away from the quality of your videos. I find that it interrupts the flow of your videos.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Hey anthony, thanks for your comment. With respect, many do love them.. and so do I, But I do truly appreciate your comment! ☺️
@antman392 3 жыл бұрын
@@KyleRowsell Then keeping doing what you love. I'm certainly not going to stop watching, just wanted to give a small opinion.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
@@antman392 again, thanks Anthony 🙂
@pascaljean2333 3 ай бұрын
Omg... I didnt say anything but... It was the first thing i was thinking. Your content is way more interesting than the memes. We can get memes everywhere.
@timv6715 2 ай бұрын
Agree. So many folks are doing these clips. Maybe it’s a trend that’ll grow tired. Still, very helpful video. Many thanks!
@omarmohammad5456 3 жыл бұрын
Hey kyle, Thanks for the great video I would like to have your opinion if i should get the flair 58 with a standalone steamer or a heat exchanger like cime co-01 or vbm domobar jr Either the flair or the hx would be at the same price Interested to hear your opinion 🙏
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Kyle, awesome video, man. I noticed your cuts and transitions got way better, especially on this video. Wanted to compliment you on that! I have the Flair Pro 2, and personally, after thinking about it, I don't think I see as much of a reason to upgrade. At the price point for the Flair 58, I think I would opt for a La Pavoni or something similar that also offers built-in milk steaming. Yeah, the 58mm compatibility is nice to have. But I think a good tamper and maybe a distribution tool is all that would benefit from that, and there are options for a LaPavoni setup in that regard. It's definitely still a contender, and for someone looking for a Pure Espresso setup, it might be the best option. But for a more general consumer, I think there are other good alternatives to consider as well. Still, a great video and a good comparison take. Keep up the great content, Kyle!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment and thoughts! Yes, I tried some different editing styles in a few videos, but returned to my normal cuts. Thanks for noticing.
@yamiito Күн бұрын
Thanks for the honest review, Kyle! I have decided to purchase the Flair 58 because of this comparison. I currently have the Flair Pro 2, but I’m planning to have a coffee cart for my business, and I think the 58 is definitely the best choice for me. I’m struggling with tamping the coffee puck on the Pro 2, but I guess it will be easier on the 58. Cheers!
@mikekrapec449 2 жыл бұрын
I would go with the 58, any suggestions on a grinder to match the 58 that might also serve as a dirner for drip? or would it be better to get 2 ? I am thinking of all ground F4, any other suggestions would be very helpful
@jesuscerda8952 Жыл бұрын
I have the flair signature, which is pretty much the same as the pro 2, just a smaller portafilter/brew chamber. I like it because I share a kitchen, and it's easy to put away and store after I finish pulling my shots
@ziba89 Жыл бұрын
question, is the flair pro 2 basket big enough for pulling a double shot?
@DarkBloodyFoxy 2 жыл бұрын
I was considering Flair 58 since I wanted to opt in espresso and especially lever machine since they are more forgiving and it’s easier to get pressure feedback but ended up buying La Pavoni Europiccola. Having boiler is so nice and easier even with small basket which means smaller dosing. But it’s fine and you can steam milk.
@user-lv7ph7hs7l 2 жыл бұрын
La Pavoni is a beauty. And easy to fix with many spares availible. I already have a semi auto but I have a look from time to time if I can find a cheap Europicolla and restore it.
@rosalynstory3271 3 жыл бұрын
Very well done video, and extremely helpful!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment!
@rvn912 Жыл бұрын
thanks for the video, beside the portability and other features, how does flair 58 compare to pro 2, just in terms of esspresso body and taste ? Does it worth the extra money ? I'm looking forward to upgrade my pro2 to 58 if the difference worth it.
@ManuelDornbusch 3 жыл бұрын
Great review. Is the 58 compatible to Smart Espresso Profiler?
@darkofps 3 жыл бұрын
I’m wondering if they’ll ever release a pre-heating device for their other models. I’d for sure buy it.
@AK-gv1pq 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, i go for the flair58. this will gonna be my only espresso machine. For me as a single espresso fan a press like this is enough. No bigger machines with stuff to maintain and clean needed. But as i want to get as close as possible to the quality of espresso made with big machines in short time, the flair58 is better (preheat, cleaning, amount of coffee, quality of espresso).
@dimasrachmatsyah8743 2 жыл бұрын
Hello Kyle, flair58 only for single or double shoot? Can i get more than 60ml from flair58?
@fluffylambut 11 ай бұрын
Very helpful. Thanks.
@Cenot4ph 2 жыл бұрын
For the flair 2 you should pre heat all the metal parts, including the basket. I've found using a bialetti moka base to help well
@mybotoitchi5048 10 ай бұрын
I am stepping down that espresso rabbit hole. I've seen videos with the 58 using a battery bank for camping, very cool idea!
@AdamFoster Жыл бұрын
Will the portafilter from the 58 chuck up to the group head of my electric machine?
@Nathan_nine1 Жыл бұрын
Hi bro, pls give me suggest🙏 Which manual Expresso is the best flair or cafelat robot ?
@chris9650 2 жыл бұрын
How does the 58 compare to something like the lapavoni europicola. Here in Europe both about the same price wise so interesting to compare.
@jules5350 3 жыл бұрын
Great review. I would still go with the Cafelat Robot.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
I’m excited to compare the robot to the 58
@mithunfan 3 жыл бұрын
such a useful video! think id be happy to hold on to my pro2. may just buy an extra brewhead for quicker back to back.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
I’m glad it helped. Thanks for your comment!
@The_Larness 2 жыл бұрын
How did you get your fellow stagg kettle in that color with wood
@timpage9424 2 жыл бұрын
I have the Classic and really like it. I just need to upgrade my grinder and get the pressure gauge.
@Arvente Жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for this comparison. I’ve just ordered 58X to start my journey with espresso making. Tbh because of money. I don’t see preheating chamber as problem as I have Fellow kettle and it’s fits perfectly on top of it. I have to boil water anyway. I was thinking about some semiautomatic machine but then realized I really suck at cleaning and maintenance so that’s not an option 😅 For travel I’m gonna stay with aeropress or plastic V60.
@joshcook777 3 жыл бұрын
Great comparison dude!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks josh, much appreciated!
@fscottqc 2 жыл бұрын
@kylerowsell I’m new to the channel and I’m enjoying the content. I gotta ask about the neon sign. Is that 116 Clique related?
@yanid.1179 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, can I grind using a Timemore C2max for PRO 2? 😅
@notme123123 3 жыл бұрын
Aside from the obvious issue of milk steaming, would you recommend the Flair 58 over a similarly priced espresso machine, like the Gaggia Classic Pro or Rancilio Sylvia for just espresso?
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Hey! I’d love to answer this, but want to do more testing first. I’ll hopefully be releasing a video covering this in the future ☺️
@cocabbae1868 2 жыл бұрын
Thankyou for your review. I think the durability of 58 must be better than pro2. One of the reason I am interested in this kind of handpresso is the easiness of maintenance.
@andreavon5929 3 жыл бұрын
As always great video really was nice, I had a hard time deciding beetween the two, but I think the pro 2 is nice because you could use anywhere, but I think the Aeropress does that job for me, the 58 is a nice lever machine and that is interesting, altough in Canada will probably going against something like a Gaggia that also could steam milk. But I am not a milk base drinker and the fun of using a lever machine that is also easy to use, I would choose the Flair 58. Thanks for the vid Kyle ✌️
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching
@ryanwerner1571 3 жыл бұрын
Kyle, I'd be interested in a shot comparison of your typical shot on the Pro 2 (16ish grams) vs the shot on the 58, You'll get a more similar bed depth and I'd be interested to see what effect this has on the shots. Food for thought, Thanks for putting out these videos.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
You’re very welcome Ryan, and thank for this comment!
@addri9490 2 жыл бұрын
Firstly I'm so excited about the 58 announcement (even I post the launching video on my IG before Flair announce it on their official). But then, I just realize about how the price is higher than what I expected.. Considering of that (and how much I doing some research and upgrade some essential tools for this machine), I choose to upgrade the grinder first. This is a better option for me, except if anyone wants to buy my Flair Pro 2 and every tools that I have, so I'd thinking again about upgrading it to 58..
@berturtle1 3 жыл бұрын
I went with the Pro 2 for the portability and the price 👍
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome!
@nburirat 3 жыл бұрын
Is 58 come with travel case?
@lancemoore3867 3 жыл бұрын
Here for it! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻🔥🔥🔥
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah you are
@richardneal5054 3 жыл бұрын
Nice review. I'm into light roasts. Does the 58 handle them better with its heating, or does a properly heated Pro 2 shot handle them just as well (with the different profile you describe)?
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment. I think you’ll find the 58 easier to handle them, as steaming and pre-heating via a more tedious method isn’t necessary. Both are very capable.
@rbmanb 3 жыл бұрын
Light roast would benefit from a smaller dose tho. Smaller baskets can fit in a 58, although the puck would be thinner thus more prone to channeling.
@rbmanb 3 жыл бұрын
So overall for smaller doses, best option is actually the Flair signature.
@thesoundpurist 10 ай бұрын
boiler steam is enough to heat the chamber? Are sure? I don't have way to check the brew chamber temperature, tell me if you tested it. Thanks
@user-qp5qi3ll2s 10 ай бұрын
They sell temp strips to wrap around the brew chamber
@poemak78 2 жыл бұрын
I would stay with my pro 2 for now, as I'm usually only making a single cup of cappuccino in the morning. I am getting quite comfortable with the process. I just simply pour the boiling water into chamber for preheat while I grind the beans by hand. The 58 model requires 10 mins preheat time and the electric component are my main concerns. it means that it has to be setup somewhere near an electric outlet and the possibility of electrical component failure will occur eventually. Nevertheless if someday my Pro 2 breaks, I might consider the 58 as it's pretty sexy piece of machine.
@joshuaschmirler3428 3 жыл бұрын
I know they recommend 10 min preheat, but how long do you think it realistically takes to electrically get the brew head up to a usable temp? The speed is the main reason I’d switch from my pro 2
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Likely 3 minutes. Don’t quote me on that.
@charlespatterson8457 3 жыл бұрын
I would like to learn more about the 58,please !
@rosalynstory3271 3 жыл бұрын
Did you use the same grind setting for each device? Would a finer grind for the 58 automatically equate with a more complex shot, even without the heating advantage? Just curious!
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
I did not. I ground slightly finer for the 58 to dial them in. The 58 in this test proved higher clarity than the pro 2 but both excellent shots. And to answer your question, this is highly possible!
@rosalynstory3271 3 жыл бұрын
@@KyleRowsell Thank you! Then perhaps the higher clarity in the 58 is due more to finer grinding than enhanced heating? Thanks for such a thorough analysis of the two!
@BensCoffeeRants 2 жыл бұрын
@@rosalynstory3271 I don't think it was due to the heating but the layout of the coffee, if you have a smaller but taller basket, you get different extraction results vs a wider and more shallow layer of coffee that the water has to push through. So THAT can affect the extraction results with stuff like flavour clarity as well as body. The grind may play a part as well.
@ps121he4 3 жыл бұрын
Hello! can you please do a Flair 58 Accessories video? I know its 58, but would be nice if we can get your recommendation for flair 58. Thank you!
@painpeace3619 3 жыл бұрын
Can you do A/B test and then tell us which one is better. N
@endlessocean1731 3 жыл бұрын
Were both shots has dialled in? Since the grind sizes are different?
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Yes they were!
@steakman 3 жыл бұрын
I was gonna buy a pro 2 then i made a decision to wait and save up more and 3 days after that they dropped the presale date for the 58. I scooped the 58. Cant wait till it comes.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
You'll love it!
@asianbarista 3 жыл бұрын
58% more $? I see what you did there Kyle! 😉
@DarkEnigma1115 3 жыл бұрын
More like what Flair did. Honestly though, did not notice that before.
@dushk0 3 жыл бұрын
be sure to tamp that subscribe button xD
@sAmiZZle82 10 ай бұрын
For me I am totally all for the manual lever style machine, so don't get me wrong when I say I honestly can't see how there is $500 worth of machine in the Flair 58 when a Gaggia Classic Pro can be had with all its internals such as a boiler, temp sensor, pump and steaming capability for a cheaper price
@alang253 Ай бұрын
less is more. I've owned budget/cheaper machines and all those parts are a liability. I am not saying the GCP is a bad machine it's just when you're getting more complexity manufacturers have to skimp on parts at that price point. The flair is a simple design: virtually indestructible, requires little to no maintenance, doesn't need electricity, highly portable, and offers a level of control and feedback that even machines in the thousands of dollars cannot do. It's an incredible value.
@vraymond108 3 жыл бұрын
I travel with a Flair Signature but wish I had the Pro 2 for a wee bit more volume. Now that 58 is available, well, why not get the best.
@cjlafleur7585 3 жыл бұрын
How do you define the difference between clarity and complexity? To me those terms seem very similar. Are you saying you get fewer flavors from the 58 but those flavors are clearer, whereas the Pro 2 gives you more flavors but they're a bit more muddled?
@coltsfan50 3 жыл бұрын
Clarity is more related to how you can taste each layer of flavor. Complexity is how many layers you can taste and how they interact with each other (sweet, acidity etc)
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Hi CJ! Great question. I describe this in a recent video after using these terms. Rather than typing a long response, give the 4:6 v60 method video a watch to understand these terms better
@personalview7388 3 жыл бұрын
It is very fun how niche market go into regress. Instead of small, lot of them software, fixes required to make machines like Breville perfect, it is now obsession with levers. Even more fun is that the more fans are focused on this and constantly discuss this - the more ordinary people move to capsule machines. At least this is that retail statistics tell us. It is time to stand and loudly tell that the king is naked.
@michaeleber4752 3 жыл бұрын
Okay the day to decide arrived unexpectedly. For this week only Flair is putting most of their goods with a 20% sale. Naturally the Flair 58 is not included. So I decided on the Flair Pro 2. I guess price won out over a 58 mm thingy.
@thesoundpurist 10 ай бұрын
Coffee is a hell of a drug. Double espresso only in the weekend and I do things around the house like crazy to realize I'd have to wait at least another 2-3 hours to take another shot.
@peteryopne6129 3 жыл бұрын
I am currently very interested in the hand grinder world but i can't find many information about it, so where do i start to look up????, is there a convention for burr sets???? or a book that explains how the different dents influence the coffee taste??? Any web maybe???
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Have you watched my recent hand grinder review?
@peteryopne6129 3 жыл бұрын
@@KyleRowsell yes, and i love all the information you gave about each grinder, but I want to deep into the science behind the burrs, so any where i can start digging?? Because I haven't found many info about it
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
@@peteryopne6129 unfortunately there aren’t many resources on the science behind each burr. Not that I’m aware of.
@brunonjezic6208 3 жыл бұрын
I love looks of pro 2 exept that silicone on the handle... I wish there is wood trim avalable for it but im not shure how this would look actually. It is more streamlined and sleek and it feels like original or so. 58 seems to be better option for my routine and i travle only with aeropress so it suits my needs better.... And it has wood! Im still deciding which one to get
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Tough decisions for sure. But, you won't regret either purchase. Both are excellent. If you're using it for daily espresso I'd go with the 58
@ineedmorenaruto Жыл бұрын
before i buy, do you know roughly how long it would take to make espresso for 3 people? I don't want to be in the kitchen for 40 minutes getting everyone a coffee lol
@deborahanneuy3582 Жыл бұрын
How about the Flair 58x?
@haberdashery314 3 жыл бұрын
Seems to be room for a lot of variations in the flair line up.. make the heater optional offer heater on "lesser" models move the brew head lock and the hook that pulls the piston back up into their other machines.
@MartiusGao 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder how people use temperature control kettles to preheat the water chamber with steam, aren't these kettles only boiling once a while?
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
The stagg ekg is constantly heating. No issues there.
@mattzechman4408 3 жыл бұрын
My birthday is coming up, I know what to bug my wife about 😁
@FierceMods 2 жыл бұрын
Don't you make the SFF PC cases too?
@allenlark Жыл бұрын
i chose the pro 2 based on price and portability. but i’m using a third party puck screen and I didn’t realize i’d have to fill the brew chamber with boiling water 3 times until i actually got it. i get it up to 90C before i dump it the last time and put it on the frame…then at least me brew temp will be more than 90 …but the heating is a gripe. i don’t understand how steaming it works. all you people with stags found a way, but my cuisinart has never been without its lil cream colored hat
@wakeawaken430 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video I would like a comparison of flair58 with a pump machine just like Silvia or a lelit of this price range(500-1000€)
@blackcopperofficial7871 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Kyle, I’ve been trying to optimize my espresso with your videos and have hit a road block. My shots seem quite sour even over extracted which would mean they were more bitter? I’m using 17-17.5 grams with the brev express! I’m pulling around 34-36 grams in 25-29 seconds and still experiencing sour shots. Local roasted and store bought (I’ve had super good shots in the past with both types of beans) even at 35 oz and 40-45 seconds the shots are still super sour and not bitter or too bold. Any help??? Thanks!
@davidlogan2682 3 жыл бұрын
I have the brev. express. Are you using the built-in grinder? What does the pressure gauge say during the shot? As in, 12 or 1 o'clock on the dial, etc. You can also measure the temperature of water coming out of the group head to check if it is abnormally low.
@blackcopperofficial7871 3 жыл бұрын
@@davidlogan2682 hey, I have a semi upgraded grinder but it’s not a 600-1000 dollar model. I’m typically mid to high in the range the express wants you to be in
@davidlogan2682 3 жыл бұрын
@@blackcopperofficial7871 I would check water temp next. Other things can be done, but if you are having abnormally cool water dispensed, then the other things don't matter much. What is the approximate roast level of the beans you use? What grinder burr set do you have, flat/64ish mm?
@blackcopperofficial7871 3 жыл бұрын
@@davidlogan2682 so the frustrating part is typically Starbucks beans from the store pour perfect shots but I want to use local beans if I can and stop using store stuff. Currently my shots are about 17.2 grams and grind setting of all the way up to 16 or 17. It’s an awesome shot but it’s not good with local beans. I’m not sure on the roast level of the local beans
@davidlogan2682 3 жыл бұрын
@@blackcopperofficial7871 Sounds like the local beans are roasted lighter (which is probably good - my opinion: lighter = healthier). Light to medium-light can easily taste sour on the B. Express. Check the water temp. You need hotter water for lighter roasts. What is the name of your grinder? I'll give some more tips, but we need that water temp right out of the brew head measured or the rest of the tips won't matter much. Stick a thermometer in the brew head water stream as it runs or preheat a glass or container (aka must be already hot to touch) and measure water as it collects from brew head.
@mixeddrinks8100 3 жыл бұрын
To me I would stick with the Pro 2 after watching these videos, because once you find a reliable way to attach your Pro 2 to the Kettle for preheating, it is not much of a difference. The 58 still requires hot water, so you not really cutting out the kettle part. Having more electrical components is a downside in the longevity of that product imo. To me the only real upside is the larger capacity, the ability to change basket, and for those who do multiple shots easier workflow. What interest me is what is the temperature it preheats to on the 58. Because you could get the Pro 2 to go REAL high.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this comment! The 58 is great, but not for everyone! 🙂
@warwickbond8836 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting takeaway... I would've opted for the portability and price angle of the Pro 2 Using a La Pavoni; I can see the merit of the rapid portafilter and basket exchange on the Flair 58.
@jeremieyirmeyahu3468 2 жыл бұрын
If 58 WAS NOT THAT EXPENSIVE I WOULD CHOOSE IT (have the Flair Signature and I am pretty happy with it ! )
@brownzys7299 6 ай бұрын
I can see myself having a lot more fun and longjevety in coffee making with the ease of workflow of the 58
@vinnytube1001 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly... I think I'd be comparing this against the Europiccola. I don't make milk drinks, so this thing looks great to me. I already have a Robot and I paid extra for it because of the streamlined workflow over the classic Flair.
@rowdyblakley8669 3 жыл бұрын
Top notch presentation. I have the Pro 2 and a big plus is that I can brew 23.5 grams of coffee. Not sure I want to spend the money on the 58 and only get a 15 gram dose. Maybe it is possible to get porta filters of bigger capacity.
@danymeeuwissen5973 3 жыл бұрын
You can use any 58mm basket, so even triple baskets if you want to huge dose. ;-)
@rowdyblakley8669 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, exactly what I needed to know. Now I just need to check my wallet. Oops, might have to save a bit more.
@davidlogan2682 3 жыл бұрын
@@rowdyblakley8669 Flair website says the volume output of both pro and 58 are in the mid 50's, I think - you can check (maybe pro minimally higher than the 58). So, you would still be limited in volume, if you were looking for something like a 3:1 ratio with 22g in the basket, aka needing 66 ml.
@johncharles2357 3 жыл бұрын
I always get more body and mouthfeel from my Flair Pro than from my Robot with its 58mm portafilter. This is also true when I get an espresso from a shop. I think smaller diameter portafilters give more body. I do get more clarity from a 58mm portafilter. Overall, I think I like smaller diameter portafilters more than 58mm.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing John!
@rpinarreta 2 жыл бұрын
Like to see someone do a review of the classic Arrarex VAM \ Caravel. Few companies offer elements at 110v for North American (120v) or Japanese (100v) usage.
@bludley 3 жыл бұрын
There is an option to purchase flair 58 without electricity which I am thinking to buy. I don't like the clunky wire cable of the normal flair 58 version. Dobyou think I will have much problem with manually preheating the brew? Please share your thought. This will be my first brewing machine.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
Yes there is! I talk about this in another flair video I’ve released recently. I think it’ll be fine as long as you use steam to preheat. I’ve tried it and works well. Though I do prefer the electronics
@somwipal.4526 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot. I never have any flair before. May be just get the electric one just in case.
@theonehk 3 жыл бұрын
What about a Flair 58 vs La Pavoni Europiccola?
@MrSRigos 3 жыл бұрын
An interesting comparison would be a 58 vs a LaPavoni. You can find those at about the same price used.
@KyleRowsell 3 жыл бұрын
That would be a great comparison!
@rbmanb 3 жыл бұрын
I would personally go for the La Pavoni if I could fine a decent one for that price, if only because of the smaller portafilter and group head.
@littlestar5737 4 ай бұрын
I use pro 2 exclusively for light roasted beans. Even my linea mini doesn't produce as good of an espresso shot, only for light roast.
@JumpingWatermelons Жыл бұрын
Once i noticed how much your torso is moving up and down (bouncing even) i cant stop seeing it. The video is very usefuo for me though, great information
@fturla___156 2 жыл бұрын
If you are going to leave the Flair at home, then you should serious think about buying the larger Flair 58. I probably would buy the Pro 2 with additional options simply because I want to test out different coffees and grinders by myself. The Flair might be better if you need to crank out more than two shots on a various occasion.
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