I still have a lot of love for Vesperia, but it is true that the party basically doddles around, eventually forms their own guild, doddles around some more, a bit of magical nonsense happens to Estelle, and then it just ends. I didn't feel like I had a firm plotline to hold onto as I played it.

You putting Keeping Up Appearance clips made me smile. Love that show.

Having played Star Ocean 2… I absolutely agree with the villain critique. Also, this is more a me thing, but… 3.7 BILLION years? Really? Like… how? How does a civilization last that long without any significant change? And why are they all so okay with dying at the end?

Oh, and for all the RPG fans in this channel, which is one of the best on KZfaq imo, I wanted to recommend Eternights. This game was recommended to me by Kiseku Nut on one of his videos, and I just finished it this week... this is a fantastic short RPG, with lovable characters, fun gameplay, cool atmosphere, an interesting story and an intense ending. Every RPG fan should play Eternights.

Seems that there are two kinds of JRPGS. Ones which start off strong but then overstay their welcome, making the last dozen hours a slog. And those which the fans insist that "It starts to get good after the first 30 hours".

Vesperia had Judith, man. JUDITH!

I remember when I played Ys Memories of Celecta and got to the ending, I thought it was the BAD ending and I didn’t do much of the side quests like how Ys VIII had it. But after asking on Reddit that ending was the real ending, which was a bummer actually since it just ends.

I actely finished Xenogears a cuple of days ago, as a teen i got stuck att the "Shivat defence" section, and now as 41yo i had a bit more experionce (grinding) to get thrue the hole game, loved it but the second disc is what it is, still loved it for what it is.

I wouldn’t change Xenogears’ second disc at all. Having the characters give soliloquies is the perfect way to get a lot of story across in a fast way. And even better is that you get to hear how Fei and Elly really feel about what’s going on and each other. Plus it’s not like the first disc doesn’t give you a ton of RPG gameplay to enjoy.

A cool thing about DQ11's Act 3 is that it's pretty much a craft your own act segment. I found it pretty satisfying to try and do everything, because there are a lot of cool story moments just scattered around the world. However doing that _will_ net you the longest act in the game. _But_ if you just want the main story and be over with the game while still getting the true ending, you can just finish it. Most of Act 3 is optional so you can just get the mandatory bits and be done with it if you want. That will get you by far the shortest act in the game. And there's everything in between. Of course if anyone doesn't like Act 3 because of the implication then they're probably better off skipping it as mentioned.

VERY HARD disagree with you on Xenogears, 'cuz while yes the 2nd disc was indeed a rush job, it still never diminished an amazing sci-fi story that is equal parts Mobile Suit Gundam and Dune and not to mention the gameplay is still quite good.

Great vid bro. hope your hand gets better! Glad Astral Chain still getting brought up. Even if its in this capacity

Mad respect for putting so many LOVED games on this list yet you still found reasonable reasons why they disappointed you in some ways

.hack. I really love this series, but both series have rather frustrating last games to them. Part 4 Quarantine has hands down the best story moments in the series for me and is a great payoff for the buildup of the previous 3 games. Wrapping up one of the most tragic character arcs in the series by defeating one of your party members who turned out to be a boss in disguise, the epic final fight with Cubia, and while the final boss is a bit underwhelming it's such a good conclusion to the series. Unfortunately in order to get through all that you've got to do a ton of virus core grinding, there's a literal brick wall of 48 of them right before the final dungeon, and if you weren't preparing through the other games you're in for quite the slog to collect those. Heck even if you prepared it still requires you get a lot of cores from this game specifically which just sucks. The normal enemies also get way more annoying to deal with as well, and the long post game dungeon being completely luck based due to infection rate is frustrating. G.U. Vol 3 Redemption on the other hand is just dull. G.U. should have ended with Vol 2, but they just keep going. Vol 3 can be split into 4 parts. The tournament arc, the final fight with the bad guy, the out of nowhere final boss fight with Cubia, and the Forest of Pain. The tournament arc is the worst one out of the 3 games, but I guess Sakaki is kind of fun being the cackling villain for it. The final fight with the bad guy is the best part of the game and is a great payoff for the story. The final boss being Cubia kind of makes sense if you played the first 4 games, but he literally comes out of nowhere and feels like this random giant monster you've got to beat at the end of this story. The Forest of Pain is just a really long and boring 100 floor post game dungeon. I think I'll take Quarantine's shorter more luck based post game dungeon than this. I'll just add that Link which is the last main game of the series is complete garbage gameplay wise. While I like the fanservice and story it wasn't worth the 60+ hour slog through that game.

I fully expected to bust out my pitchfork just from the thumbnail, but I gotta agree with you. I played Xenogears for the first time last year and fell in love with it. But I think I was in love with the vision and the ambition. Objectively, the second disc is effectively a whole different game, and man is it hard to follow all those story beats running past you at light speed

I love the off the cusp nature of this vid man! 😂😂 the Vesperia commentary had me chuckling great video as always

I LOVE XENOGEARS. It’s my all time favorite game and I’ve been playing games since 1988. (I’m old. I’m 40 lol). Xenogears is my favorite game and Trails is my favorite series. I WISH Takahashi was able to finish Xenogears like he and his wife wanted to. Not just Xenogears but they couldn’t even do Xenosaga how they wanted. I don’t think Square would let Takahashi have the rights to Xenogears but I think/hope they can work something out with Bandai Namco to complete Xenosaga. Don’t get me wrong I would love to be wrong and see Square not be petty and let Takahashi and his team have Xenogears

I still love the game regardless of disc 2 of Xenogears being mostly a visual novel. So happy we had the game released in North America and so glad to have my copy to this day.

I 100% agree on kh3. The final confrontation with organization 13 was such a let down

I can understand this especially if u don't have enough free time cuz after some weeks and not finishing something can make u feel negative about it

I really liked your video format with you going off of notes. It seemed much more natural and honest. Amazing this weekend!! Have you taken a look at Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 yet!?!?!?

Vesperia is my favorite game of all time but if they ended the game after act 2 with that main villain dying it would be a lot better.

Nooo.. Vesperia is one of the best in the series. I’d have gone with Zestiria as one which gets worse. I’m sorta with you on Ryza. I love Ryza but I feel like the Mysterious games were peak Atelier. MoC is such a fabulous game though, sure not as good as VIII but I’m surprised its here lol

KH 3 made two massive story mistakes. The first is that Sora didn’t need to do anything in the first half of the game to reobtain his powers from KH3D. The second was retconning Xehanorts end goal and letting him literally getting away with it. I will give it kudos for concluding the BBS and Days trio’s plot. That was a tear jerker.

I would say that what saves Celceta among the others is the short length

I put down DQ XI-S after 90 hours... stopped just short of the ending. I think I just got burnt out, and I've always felt bad I didn't finish it. Recently bought it again on Steam, but after the first few hours, I stopped again. Just the thought of going through all that effort again was too daunting 😅 Edit: Well I'll be... I didn't know it was a known/common complaint in the community! I never checked & just thought I sucked/lost motivation

Vesperia is great but you made a mistake, brother. Like my boy Derek from the “Super Derek” show says “Hype responsibly”. You were irresponsible lol. You know I LOVE your channel and content and even though I don’t agree with you with Vesperia I respect your opinion. We still have Trails and Y’s in common so we’re still good lol

Ah man, this is more a matter of purely personal taste than anything else. There is a reason why people like or dislike certain games and it could be because they have captivating characters even if the narrative isn't the best in the world or because the game has a perfect balance between gameplay and narrative, there are games with weak stories that are incredibly good like FFXII. Grandia is a game that in general is so captivating that it makes up for the lack of development of some characters. Star Ocean has always been a game that focused more on your group than on the series' villains. In a way, you're not purely watching an anime or movie when you're playing an RPG because it's a set of factors.

I am 💯 with you on Vesperia and that final act. I played Vesperia hot off of playing Abyss (and Symphonia before that) and it fell flat for me too. I loved the characters, but the story didn’t land, especially with how powerful an impact Abyss had on me from start to finish. I have Vesperia for Switch now and I’m planning to play through it this summer. I think it might land better now that it’s not back to back with a story-heavy Tales game.

Memories of Celceta would have been my favorite in the series, as I LOVED the dialogue and humor in this game above the rest but man, that ending... I thought I missed something, scrambled forums, but apparently nope, they just ended it there.

So fun thing about Ni no kuni when you mentioned it should have ended early, the thing is it actually did, within the 1st game originated on the Nintendo DS that didn't come to the west but was fan translated with some differences like the white witch never made their appearance here and was said the DS side of the game flowed better than White witch.

Ryza 3 was written by the shakugan no Shana author and that series also has an incredible ending with some meandering character development in the middle so it was quite on brand for him. It could also be they didn't want the third game to be smaller than the second game and that's why the padding was added.

Star Ocean: The Second Story was one of those games that I’m not sure what my experience would have been if I didn’t get that full color strategy guide. Wouldn’t have recruited several characters, and wouldn’t have touched item creation or cooking much at all. I 100% agree the story does kind of fall apart on the second disc. I don’t even remember why I had to kill the last boss, and good thing that strategy guide warned me not to accidentally SPEAK to a certain character in a particular town before the end game events because doing so automatically triggers a really powered up version of the end boss. Game also was buggy as hell and playing with dual shock rumble on could cause crashes for some reason. Still, I have a lot of nostalgia for this game.

Aww. So sorry you missed Tales of the Abyss. I loved it. That was my first Tales game. I had high hopes for Vesperia but I lost interest about half way through. I had one problem with Ryza 3. I loved how the closed out the story arc for characters in the series from the start, because I invested so much time with them and watched them grow. But they introduced new characters and tried to have a complete arc for them squeezed into one game.

Man Berseria felt 15-20 hours too long. I really enjoyed it until it dragged on, surprised to see that one be considered a 10/10 for you. The last wing of the game just ruined it for me.

Ngl, every one of your videos have me whistling at some point thanks to the Atelier music. Such a good choice of bgm. Also I love Vesperia but 100% agree. Imo Abyss ends up being the strongest of the big 3 story wise. Hopefully someday it'll actually rerelease outside the 3ds. Also I really hope the Atelier team builds off the open world style Ryza 3 had. That was out right one of the best parts of the game imo

Holy crap I though you were going to list games that aren't that good, but i had no idea you were going to pick some of my favorite rpgs in this list lol.

Xenogears might be the game that showed the world a game story could be serious, dark, twisted, and anything else you can think of that's "adult" that isn't THAT meaning of "adult." But I wish it was an anime for a long time, as I think it failed as a game.

*rubs face* Oh boy... was not ready for all these steaming hot takes.

The ending of KH III was very disappointing. I've played them all over the years, and they dropped Xehanort so hard. I guess the story died with Xehanort's voice actor Leonard Nemoy.

Hopefully the hand is feeling better a week later. I get it TKN. Done that to my hands as well.

I like the way you honestly express your opinions. I felt almost the same with these games. I was looking forward to Star Ocean, I heard so much about it, but when I finally played it I realized that it was a good game...20 years ago. It was not preserved like Suikoden 2 or FF 6-9

I can say the same about what happen to Astral Chain for Dark Cloud 2. Why did Level 5 stop the series at 2?

I was so disappointed with KH3. I waited a decade and bought this day one for a slipshod rush job. Looked gorgeous but the worlds had next to no story and the ending was just a travesty. At least they concluded the trios (axel, roxas, xion & terra, ventus, aqua) stories but the way they did it also felt half hearted. The tragedy leading up was great story telling and then they decided to just bring everyone back to make it all a happy ending. I prefer happy ending over sad but after all that build up they have a one world with boss fights just bringing everyone back one by one undoing all that investment? One of my biggest disappointments in gaming.

I love this video idea! Great job😂

Great discussion and yeah, I hated Vesperia…. I can’t wait to play Berseria actually! Maybe that will be the one I finally like! Tales just hasn’t vibed with me yet but I’m certain ONE of them will! I love videos like this because it’s just pure honesty and I respect that!

Vesperia was my first tales. However I found it a bit too grindy and with a somehow stiffy combat. And I agree with you that it drags on at the end and totally overstays its welcome. The story was nice for me though, really liked it (even if it was nothing very special or surprising)

Strange you talked about Dragon Quest XI S, but haven't mentioned the Trails of Cold Steel II with it's atrocious Reverie Corridor. I shudder just remembering it, bleeeegh.

Xenogears disc 1 is my favorite jrpg of all-time. Xenogears disc 2 is my favorite visual novel of all-time. I think a lot of its beauty is in the fact that the work of art was left basically unfinished. Which is incredibly apt given Xenogears’ story. Lacan never finished his portrait of Sophia either.

Love the Hyacinth Bucket clip! 😁

People took the list personally with that amount of downvotes! Sad to see people can't take someone having a different opinion.

Fore me, i knew kingdom hearts 3 wa gonna have issues when the entire Forzen world was essentially a retell of the whole movie with sora on the background to remind us we were still playing kingdom hearts. And the final part had some good moments but a lot of it is quite forgettable.

Vesperia is goated

Dude whenever I watch your videos, i’m like “this guy gets it” when it comes to Celceta. I loved it and it’s just solid. And underrated as far as Ys goes and in general. But sure, the antagonists are a bit forgettable. And the ending is semi-rushed and semi anticlimactic. But I loved the gameplay, Adol flashbacks, characters, crafting system (much preferred this to VIII’s), and environment.

The way all of the games are on my backlog 💀

Mate, loved this more off the cuff style - really personable and engaging for me. Didn’t agree with all the opinions but didn’t mind as video was still a great watch/listen

I totally agree with you on every way about Vesperia. I’m also more about story then gameplay

Yes, yeaaaas, I'm not the only one onto the Vesperia train!

In such games' defence, it's understandable. Just take a break and come back to playing them later

Nailed it on Astral Chain. God I was so enthralled with that game but it just completely falls apart into complete anime nonsense in that final act. A tightly woven narrative that seems to be building towards something, and instead just frays into a million disconnected threads.

I'd put Trails of Cold Steel, the full series on the list. The ending of 1 was shocking. Two was arguably the highpoint of Trails as a whole, but then the pattern of reversing the major moments of each game only to replace them with new-yet-all-to-familiar moments began. With each one being less believable than the last. Oh and then the Interlude anime between 2 and 3 came out years late and was unbelievably bad.

Vesperia - It's been a few years since I played this on Switch; I can't remember much about the story to be honest, but I don't remember having any big problems with its story either; guess I can't really agree or disagree on this one Astral Chain- similar situation to Vesperia; I don't remember having any big problems with this one's story either Ni No Kuni - Haven't played, can't comment; I did enjoy its sequel's story though Shin V - Haven't played yet; sounds like I defintely need to pick this up on PS5 on the 14th Xenogears - Haven't played; can't comment on this; I do love the Xenoblade trilogy Kingdom Hearts III - I was honestly pretty checked out of the story by the time this one came out so it didn't really matter to me what the story was at this point; I do love III's gameplay for sure; I think the Re: Mind DLC has a better ending if I remember correctly Ryza 3 - I played the first game and loved its gameplay and story; I hope that remains true for 2 and 3 also Second Story - Haven't played yet; can't comment Ys VI - Disagree honestly; I don't remember having any problems with this one Dragon Quest XI - I didn't bother with the third act; I was ready to move onto something else after the credits rolled for the first time

I will never forget how Xenogears made tremble in fear when all pieces came together, or the moment I had to puke because the revelations were too much for me.

Xenogears disc 2 annoys me to no end. Guys, if you run out of money and can't produce the same quality...just end the game there and make a second part? I always felt that xenogears was more interested in its world setting than letting you play a game. Just make a visual novel, my dudes...

Tales of vesperia was peak in my opinion. I got few playthroughs out of it.

Tales of Arise is a 10/10 game, I love that game so much! I really want to like the Ryza games, I've tried to get into them multiple times but I found the lack of direction in the first game bothered me a lot. I tried Ryza 2 and 3 but then felt like I missed too much from 1 😂.

Wow, this entire video i disagree with

I would add Cold Steel 4 that ended the Erebonia arc like a wet fart ends a speech.

Hard agree on Vesperia, that entire 3rd act felt tacked on and unnecessary.

Everything you Saud about Vesperia I completely agree with. When it came out, I was so bummed it wasn't on PS3. It looked beautiful, and Repede is so cool! I played it years later and my disappointment was immeasurable. Maybe I don't like it much because I've played the later Tales of games, which I enjoyed so much (Xillia and Graces are top tier) Vesperia has too big a cast, and Rita hitting Carol is not charming, made me not like her right away.

I was absolutely in tears laughing during the Vesperia part. That was amazing. Yet very true for a lot of it. Rita can be very hit or miss. Act 3 is nowhere as good as act 1 and act 2. Act 2 has some direction issues in the middle part. And the final boss is okay…….. like the battles the could be much better. both sides are trying to do the same thing but on extremely opposite sides. Still my favorite Tales game by far. Graces and Keroro RPG (Im counting that as an tales game) are 2nd and 3rd respectively.

Oh man, finally some validation for what I feel about KH3 and Tales of Vesperia. Your oinions on them are very close to mine, it's so refreshing not to feel like a lone soldier among avid ToV stans 😂

Most JRPGs get worse when you're in for more than 40 hours. Tokyo Xanadu EX+ was one I recently finished, got the true ending, and just refused to do the additional content. That one really overstayed its welcome-- such a bland story with bland characters. Good gameplay, but nothing special. Also, any game that has random encounters. Dear Lord, does that get old when you just want to get on with the story. That includes the likes of FF6. It just becomes obnoxious by the end. It's probably why I've always preferred the Ys series above Final Fantasy.

I still haven't finished Tales of Vesperia. I've tried 3 separate times and I always fall off just after they establish the guild and start looking for some leader that disappeared. I liked most of the characters, but the story just meandered. I would say FFXVI gets worse the longer you play. Yea, there are some amazing looking boss fights scattered throughout, but the story is at it's peak before the first crystal, during the revenge plot. It just kind of falls off after and the ending kills the game for me. I hate open endings. They feel unsatisfying and pretentious. "Oh-hohoho! You get to determine what history actually is! Aren't we so clever!" It's terrible. You spend 50-80 hours with these characters building bonds with them and at the end it's just "here's vague hints for people on the internet to argue over". Also, the combat grows really stale and you realize around the pointless timeskip that the rpg elements aren't even as deep as some rpg systems in action and fighting games. One of the biggest disappointments for me overall.

"They wanted to be done with Xehanort." *Nervous laughter* Young Eraqus: "Hey Xehanort, if you could, how many lifetimes would you want?" Young Xehanort: "14. 13 to forge the x-Blade and one to see what happens to the world after the next war." (Granted if/when he does return I doubt he'll fill an antagonistic role but still..)

Loved your accidental non script commentary, though you really don't need the memes. I personally am not a fan for memes cutting into the narrative all the time. What I did enjoy about them though, was the reminder of some great vintage British comedy. Thanks!

These are all good games, and each critique is on point. My only issue with this video is not including Unicorn Overlord. Though i suppose thats not strictly JRPG.

Xenogears is unfinished, however to this day it's still my favorite story in a video-game. It really deserves a remake, it's sad that company politics might not let that happen. Again, for those who eenjoy stories, it's a masteerpiece

DQ11 3/4 of perfection

You were so British in this. Thanks.

I personally feel there's a correlation between age and enjoyment 😅 As I got older, I have less patience and easily check out, even if these games are iconic!

Yeeeeah, Vesperia I can't understand personally since I think it's a great game with a really good story from beginning to end. I don't really praise gameplay and visuals often since I usually play games for their stories/character interactions but the gameplay in this game starts off great and gets even better. Most fun I've had battling in a Tales Of game to date and the best visually looking Tales Of game to date for me, sad they changed both over time. I really like the story and characters in Vesperia, especially the skits. Rita, Karol, Estelle, and Patty being my most favorites cause they get the most development which makes sense since they're the younger ones of the group. Still, Dawn of the New World is my most favorite game in the series period and that game gets a shit ton of hate but at list it didn't end up on your list here so that's something good lol KH3 ending I really loved, especially with the Remind DLC expansion. It's tied with KH2 as my favorite in the series just from the final act alone, just wish we got that throughout the game but I blame that for the fact they wanted to focus much more on the disney/pixar worlds instead of their own worlds/cast which tbh I love a lot more and by this point in the series I don't mind them focusing more on the original characters/worlds since they have so many to build off from. Yeah, Celeceta. I'd rather not think about it. One of the few games I regretted buying cause I was so disappointed in the game. I even tried playing it again few times which I'm enjoying at first until I get into the forest and that fun just drops and I get really bored. It kinda reminds me of how I feel about Sky the 3rd. LOVE the prologue but once we get into Phantasma my enjoyment quickly starts dropping. Thankfully Sky the 3rd is the only one with that dungeon only problem in the series. Well Ryza...I would LOVE each game but I just can't play it without an English Dub. Disappointed in the series only cause it removed that dreaded time restriction which I was soo happy about but it didn't have an English Dub which is a massive bummer. I know an earlier game took the time restriction out but those games don't have Thighza does it? x3 DQ11 I kinda dropped due to that sudden difficulty spike tbh lol I MIGHT go back to it but Idk, it's been YEARS since I last played it and hmm, not sure if I will. I kept putting down Astral Chain also cause I kinda got bored and played something else. Actually, DQ11, Astral Chain, and FE3H I keep putting down to play other games like Persona, Trails, Tales Of, Neptunia, etc since they just have what I love in games.

I wonder how much is this the games actually getting worse, or if it's just burnout from playing the same game for 60+ hours.The older I get, the more often I am switching and have to leave games for some even after like 10-20 hours. This happens to me especially in text-heavy games and with turn-based combat, so most JRPGs. However when I return after the lengthy break, I find the game really good again. DQXI is a prime example of this for me.

I got vesperia but haven't really touched it mainly because it's old ... And I like the look of these atelier games but I feel like they'll just get backlogged ...

HULLO. Vesperia absolutely agree. Also Celceta's ending was such a massive letdown for me hahaha

Vesperia is a bit overhyped, I love Tales games, but Vesperia is not very good 'Tales' game, it looks fine.. but after the third act of the game, for real, things just 'happen'... like they did not think things through, they threw things over...they picked one, felt kind of shallow, Unlike Phantasia , which gives you a whole saga... or Abyss that pushes forward, or even Eternia which I think is much better. ..

We love a Keeping Up Appearances reference

Wait...the DQ HD is doing the whole og trilogy?

Why would Astral Chain leave the switch when Nintendo owns the IP

Usually when a game starts getting worse is when I quit. I only have so much me to spend on everything.

Spot on about tales of vesperia. I've tried multiple times to finish this game

I like the more casual approach in this video. I enjoyed it immensely! Xenogears is my all-time favorite JRPG, and I've played it countless time now...however that last dungeon was so frustratingly boring, I just skip it entirely.

I would say it is way rarer for an RPG not to get worse the longer you play it. There are very few games that can keep me pumped to play the whole way through. Maybe this is because I am getting older, but only some of the smaller indie games I have played recently have kept me interested all the way to the end. Some of the worst I can think of is Fire Emblem 3 houses, Xenoblade 2, and 90% of square enix games since they became square enix lol.

Can I say just how much I agree with you on Vesperia? I came in with great expectations and during the 1st act i was genuinely having fun (didn’t think it was great but it was ok) but act 2….omg honestly i felt that people were just running around aimlessly.

Vesperia. Yeah, like the assholes cussing out a child because they thought she was some kind of criminal pirate. That right there pissed me off about the game. Patty was one of my favorite characters.

Hard disagree on KH3, I’d say it’s underwhelming from the beginning to the end. It’s just not the epic conclusion we were promised and you can just sense the development hell the game was in every single minute of playing that game.

I have never wanted to love a game and just not been able to like Xenogears. I played it for the first time a couple years ago after missing it when it first released and I just felt like it was fighting me the whole time. The combat system got old, the dungeons were horrible, i didn’t care about half the cast, I did not enjoy the mech combat at all, and the machine gunning of plot in disc two was too much for me. Maybe I just didn’t have the mental space and patience to absorb and analyze it with job, family, etc on my mind the way I would have back in high school.

You take Xenogears off this list and thumbnail RIGHT NOW 🔪

Xenogears is still the greatest jrpg ever made

Ooufff! I hard disagree Xenogears being on this list!! I don't even play visual novels and yeh it sucks they had to do this BUT the game definitely doesn't get worse because of it!!