Lathe Mill Combo Buyer's Guide

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2 жыл бұрын

Things to look out for when buying a Lathe Mill Combo machine tool
These are also known as 3-in-1 machines or lathe/mill/drills
My recommendation is that if you have the space for separate machines, buy a separate lathe and mill. You should get a drill press too, even if you go for the 3-in-1. You can get milling and turning for a lot lower initial cost by going the 3-in-1 route but you will have more money to spend in future and you'll wish you'd spent that initial wad on a lathe and then bought a mill later. The individual machines will cut better, cut faster and be more efficient with your time.
See Blondihacks on why to buy the lathe before the mill • Getting Started In Mac...
If you really are stuck in a tiny garden shed and can't fit both machines in (dubious - see the tiny garden shed of Ade's Workshop / ade63dug ) or maybe you just need a compact machining station for occasional work, then these combos might be a good fit long term.
My particular machine - ShopTask 1720 XMTC came from the factory in 1998 with CNC stepper motor mounts, and I have (finally) implemented the CNC features. I'm already invested in it and I can't justify swapping it out for two separate machines in the short term - nor can I negotiate for more garage space to put them in. Longer term, I will be upgrading and spreading out.
The models shown in the popup examples are
Smithy Granite XT 1324 Lathe Mill Combo smithy.com/products/granite-x...
This looks more rigid to me as the vertical depth of the beam supporting the mill head is much deeper than the other long-heads, also the supporting pillar looks to be a good inch wider, and the lathe spindle is closer to the ways. This machine actually uses the single motor format beefed up to 2HP, with variable speed drive, a quick change gearbox and a mostly full function apron. If I were in the market for a manual 3-in-1, this would be the top of my list.
Grizzly G4003 - 12" x 36" Gear-Head, Cam Lock Spindle, Lathe www.grizzly.com/products/griz...
Example of a full function lathe apron, including separate power feed.
Grizzly G4015Z - 19-3/16" 3/4 HP Combo Lathe/Mill www.grizzly.com/products/griz...
Example of the classic short-head design with single motor and 4" chuck. This seems to include a forward/reverse and half-nut on the lead screw, but no threading dial. Note Grizzly's 3" vise combined into the compound.
Precision Matthews 1640TL Late www.precisionmatthews.com/sho...
An example of a real 16" swing lathe with 5HP and weighing 3500lbs. These little 3-in-1 machines with 12/16/17" swing do not really have that swing. The don't have the power to cut that, and they don't have the mass to support the spindle properly that far from they ways, resulting in reduced rigidity.
Useful links:
History of 3-in-1 (ShopTask perspective): www.chicagolathe.com/content/...
Smithy perspective: smithy.com/pages/about-us
Note this video from Jet Boat Mayhem • Grizzly G0769 Lathe Mi... where the user found one of the smaller "back-head" types so frustrating he unbolted the mill-head and tied it to a separate X-Y table.
I am a hobbyist and maker and sometimes I sell what I make.
Tindie Store: www.tindie.com/stores/arielnh56/
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Blog: redhunter.com
Twitter: / redhunterstore

Пікірлер: 61

@Mr7yhnmki8 Жыл бұрын

You’re spot on in your recommendation.

@MarioAPN 11 ай бұрын

Not quite. The similar one cost 3500 euros in my country. I am a hobbyist. I work on programming hurco mills at work and I don't have enough money for buying one. When you are buying hurco, trust me, you want to buy the new unit. They have crazily good features, but they are breaking a lot after 10 years of constant work 24 hours a day. For example, Haas with their micron versions, old machines that are 20+ years old are undestructable. They are slow, but what vibrations and torture are they going through, not single new unit could. They just work and work and work. Zero problems, it is amazing. Hurco after 10 years... A lot of problems. Also, finishing on hurco, I don't know why, probably because of pure mass of the machine, is superb. Haas, with same tools, same parameters, is worse. But vfx2s is a lot smaller and probably lighter than hurco vmx30t so there is that.

@jmunozar Жыл бұрын

Many thanks for making this video!, this is what I needed to see for reasons agasint getting one. many thanks! :)

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@design8studio 8 ай бұрын

Thanks for the insights! I am leaning toward getting separate tools instead of the combo.

@thumperthoughts 7 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@MultiPeanut123 Жыл бұрын

I like my smithy granite 1340 industrial 220v may convert it cnc later. Make sure to get a digital read out with it and a good level stand.😀

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

The DRO is a night and day upgrade. I now have the DRO scales providing position feedback to LinuxCNC, and I am getting reasonably good results with the existing ACME screws - even when I had a loose grubscrew on one of the pulleys and 0.040" backlash! This requires slow motion but we have to take light cuts on these machines anyway.

@hu5116 11 ай бұрын

There is another consideration beside space, cost! Two machines will invariably cost more than just one of these. I’ve been looking at the Chicago lathe Bridgemill, which would seem to address any rigidity issues, and seems to have a lot of nice features, including, default, CNC. Would be interested in anybody that has one of the newest ones and hear their opinions. Thanks!

@MarioAPN 11 ай бұрын

Exactly. Machines are very expensive. The similar machine cost 3500 euros in my country and it is great for my needs. Also, it replaces 3 machines. Drill, lathe and mill. I am ok with that, it is a hobby machine.

@thumperthoughts 6 ай бұрын

The CLB is a direct descendant of my machine. I do not have experience with it. Most of your cost is going to end up being tooling anyway, not the machines themselves, which offsets the price somewhat. You get what you pay for.

@T0tenkampf Жыл бұрын

NEVER TRUST A DALEK! I went and looked at a Smithy Granite 1324 Max and it was pretty impressive despite my aversion to Chinesium. If I can talk him down on the cost it may be good for use while I build a PrintNC mill.

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

The Granite does look like it has addressed the primary drawba cks of the mill setup on the earlier generation machines like mine - more metal in the mill head implies greater rigidity and a bunch more quill travel.

@Cageey1117 8 ай бұрын

thank You. Saved me 8-10 grand.

@thumperthoughts 8 ай бұрын

Wow. There's a story there. I guess you went with separate used machines?

@ivannightly1919 Жыл бұрын

I love it but its not used much and generally set up as just a lathe I find I am doing one or the other for a time depending on the project in the end it was cheap worked great for my needs but im low volume but fills a hole when I need those parts

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

They do have their niche.

@stevecunningham3475 8 ай бұрын

I was considering the combo style but accuracy is important to me. 3-4k of an inch out of tolerance is horrible specs if that is really the case. I like the idea, but being cheap is not going to be important if it's not very true imo. I prefer a true lathe within maybe 1k of in inch at the very most for what I want to use it for. Thanks for the info.

@thumperthoughts 8 ай бұрын

I do get .001 or better on mine as long as I take very light cuts finishing. Anything heave will deflect, especially on the mill. So slow.

@geoffankrett7012 6 ай бұрын

@@thumperthoughtsIt all depends how much effort you put in to get the result you want. You clearly make the effort. People are achieving brilliant results on some of the cheapest mini Lathes with a bit of tinkering first.

@wk7060 4 ай бұрын

I have the Grizzly G9729 3 in 1, and love it, 20+ years. Mine is a 17” x 31”, longer bed than yours.

@wk7060 3 ай бұрын

I love the Grizzly 17” x 31” like this one, 20+ years old and very accurate within .001”.

@thumperthoughts 3 ай бұрын

They do generally get the job done, and they do fit in a small space. The main cost is in time due to changing setup and taking light cuts because of the lack of rigidity.

@PaulsGarageProjects Жыл бұрын

Are there operations that you find these machines excel at compared to separate lathe/mill?

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

Other than fitting into a smaller space, no....

@hazenbrown8943 2 жыл бұрын

Hey, I picked up one of these 1720's pretty cheap and Im looking to convert it to a cnc as well. I was wondering how you went about setting it up as a cnc or what kit you used, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of info out there from what I can find but anything helps. Thanks!

@thumperthoughts 2 жыл бұрын

hackaday.io/project/181112-shoptask-1720-linuxcnc

@thumperthoughts 2 жыл бұрын

Also DRO install hackaday.io/project/169581-reviving-a-shoptask-1720-xmtc-gold-3-in-1

@hazenbrown8943 2 жыл бұрын

@@thumperthoughts thank you!

@wernerheil6697 2 жыл бұрын

GOOD SUMMARY !!!

@thumperthoughts 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@MauricioalbertoPinedacas-zu7bk 4 ай бұрын

Hello!!. Only a question: to your point of view, the best trade combo Machine with prices about $ 2 500 USD is ?.... In Italy is a factory named Damatomacchine...of course, made in China with designs from italian ingeniers... do you know about the quality this ?....

@thumperthoughts 4 ай бұрын

Sorry I don't. I last researched buying one of these 26 years ago. Like all of the hobby grade machine tools they are going to be coming from various makers who are using similar or the same basic castings. Whether these actually vome from the same foundry is not clear, but what happens afterwards varies a lot. Different brands will have different quality components and different levels of quality control and finishing. To a large extent you will get what you pay for, and to a large extent a cheaper machine can be made to be as good as a more expensive one if you have the time, tools and ability to do that. The general advice is to use a supplier in your country who will stand by their product and ensure that their suppliers keep up to their standards. In the US that seems to be Smithy and Grizzly at the moment. Harbor Freight have never had a good rep on this stuff, and Vevor are new so don't have the track record yet. Check the current reviews and forums. Made in China stuff gets a bad press, but China are going to the moon. They can make equipment of the highest quality, but they are also willing to build down to the lowest price, if that's what the customer wants i.e. they will make and sell cheap crap if the customer is willing to buy cheap crap. So look at the western middle-man and their rep, and avoid the cheapest thing on aliexpress....

@kevinthomson6324 5 ай бұрын

“Unless it’s bread.” Almost had a spit take of my tea😂

@thumperthoughts 5 ай бұрын

Brain fart. No script.

@mywalkingfriend Жыл бұрын

Agree will all or most you have mentioned but I purchased the Smithy 1220 limited 2002 (called Granite 1220 back then) It was able to overcome some drawbacks you mentioned and it has performed awesome to this day. I also got the Smithy 1324 XT Max 2020 and absolutely amazed by the new features (it is was completely redesigned in 2019) and worth every dollar I paid. I only had the quick change tool post and factory installed DRO added. My opinion is it has almost overcome all the disadvantages of separate machines. Not made in USA but Smithy made sure would function like it was. I have both in my workshop . Please try to find a Smithy 1324 XT Max and do a review. You might find it a lot more better than expected.

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback. My next upgrade will probably be a standalone mill, but that's a few years out. My Shoptask is severely limited with the short quill travel and fixed head, but adding the CNC gear, while not fixing that issue, has made the machine a lot more usable.

@lessard2020 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the honesty! > lol

@jmrico1979 11 ай бұрын

can i use a machine like this one to bore scooter cylinders?

@thumperthoughts 11 ай бұрын

Yes, with the right tooling, and if you take it slow.

@jmrico1979 11 ай бұрын

@@thumperthoughts awesome, thanks for the tip

@husseinmorsy8310 8 ай бұрын

How much price and how the methods re ceived

@thumperthoughts 8 ай бұрын

i bought mine 25 years ago. Check online for prices and current shipping options.

@StuartsShed Жыл бұрын

You have a Dalek? Now I’m jealous.

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

Fred seems to be dormant at the moment, so I think we are safe. I do have his batteries on the trickle charge. makerfaire.com/mfarchives/fred-the-dalek/

@StuartsShed Жыл бұрын

Absolutely brilliant!

@anthonylathrop7251 5 ай бұрын

Watch out, there's a Dalek hiding in your garage!

@tuankieu8784 Жыл бұрын

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

@sloppyfloppy79 10 ай бұрын

A couple things about these machines, from an actual machinist: 1. You won't find a bigger lathe for the same price. You won't find a lathe of the same size for the same price. 2. All machines have their limits. 3. You get what you pay for. With that said, there are work arounds. The mill can be used for smaller work with spacer blocks under the vice. Use the vise that came with it only for lathe work as a compound table. Yes, it will chatter when taking more than .020. It's a 110 machine and not designed to hog steel. You can upgrade the motors on this machine so they have the power to take more than .020. So long as you stay within the motor's limits, it cuts just fine without chatter. Remember, you will spend 3-4000 on a mill that has a similar work envelope. Add that with 10,000 for a lathe with a similar swing. For the price you paid, you have a capable machine. It's limits are you, not the machine. Have patience. A good machinist takes his time to make sure the part it exactly to specification. You are not running a production plant trying to make as many as possible in an 8 hour shift. Take the time to make custom fixtures for your parts. You would be shocked to see that machine can and will turn a small block V8 crankshaft, as well as deck the heads. With a little ingenuity, you can even bore the block. It's a horizontal mill incase you haven't noticed.

@anthonylathrop7251 5 ай бұрын

Kind of like the Amphicar. A not-very-good car and a not-very-good boat all in the same package.

@geoffankrett7012 6 ай бұрын

They are great value for the money. All the extras you say you will get from buying two different machines will cost a lot more money and space. These machines are for serious hobbyist and well worth the money for the level of quality. You will have to spend many thousands to achieve near perfection.

@thumperthoughts 6 ай бұрын

Rigidity is worth the extra bucks. In my opinion.

@wk7060 4 ай бұрын

This is not a production machine for quickness.

@wk7060 4 ай бұрын

Never as good as 2 stand alone machines, but was made for the purpose of limited space. Need to compare to identical machines not two stand alone machines.

@oldschool1993 Жыл бұрын

That's a machine that was sold in the 1990's- have you had it for 30 years and now just realizing the limitations?

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

Kinda. I got distracted from the hobby by work and kids for a while. 😀

@practicalplinking6133 Жыл бұрын

Ya shouldda bought a better brand !!

@thumperthoughts Жыл бұрын

Back in 98 I thought the Shoptask was superior to the Smithy at that time, especially as I was interested in CNC. The Granite did not exist. My point is not about the brand, but that separate machines are a better path if you have the space.

@practicalplinking6133 Жыл бұрын

@@thumperthoughts Yea, I guess it's all about what ya need, what ya can get ($) and what your abilities are !!