Well, years ago it was the case, guess what? People just sat 20km from caps and spammed those long range, fast (back in the day), hard hitting and hard to dodge torps. No struggle for caps, no spotting, no team play, no risk whatsoever since you're a dd sitting 20 km of anything. Just pure easy damage. Again, back in the day, everything was just different with less hydro, less radar, less ridiculous cruisers etc... But I think it would still be toxic today, though less than before

And they were faster than halland torps

Realism should not be the basis for game balance. I'm not saying it should be thrown out altogether, but when designing a MULTIPLAYER VIDEO GAME, the balance between the various playable parts should always take priority over any semblance of realism.

@@aristosachaion_ Have you played DCS world? If it was good irl then it's good in game, if it wasn't so great irl it tends to not see much action in multiplayer. I don't know if my feelings come from being a military veteran or not. But if a game is going to use fake stats then you might as well use fake ships, tanks, aircraft etc.. Only the naive and the foolish think warefare is or should be "fair" or "balanced" so being "fair" or "balanced" in war games only belong in games meant for children young enough that still get excited for the tooth fairy. On my second ship during a Rimpac we got killed and had to return to port to regenerate. I think it was like a 12 hour period we had to wait. Towards the end we saw one of the Burkes from the other side pulling into regenerate. Our Captian suddenly had this devious look on his face and quickly called all hands not currently manning a console to muster on the flight deck ASAP. He laid out this plan that he was thinking up as he told us. The basics was we needed to be 100% ready to get the ship underway the second our time was up and we were released and turn a few rpms shy of illegal transit speed and be out of site FAST then veer off to a semi secluded area so the damn deck apes could finally do something useful. They painted over our hull number and over it went the hull number of the "enemy" Burke that wouldn't be far behind us. He had a proud moment when he could tell everyone was pitching in because people suggested if we were going that far then go the distance, so our awards were changed to what they had plus anything else that stuck out to folks. We changed everything but the ships name, NEVER change a ships name. So it was a short wait until our unwitting victim feeling nice and safe was blindsided without any type of distress signal sent out, and immediately turned around and sent back to regen. It goes without saying they were PISSED. So off we went to find "our" battlegroup when we did we slowly made our approach. And we were actually sporting when we didn't need to be, had they not been complacent they would have picked up on the things we wanted them too and the few things they did pick up didn't have the conviction to follow through. So around 4nm from the carrier all hell broke loose we blinded multiple bridges, played a masterful game of the EM spectrum and emptied most of our VLS cells "simulated" most of which was aimed at the carrier. Something like 90% of the simulated hits were non warhead hits since that range was way within the safties of most ordnance. But we argued most missiles would have burned just enough fuel for just enough vapor and vapor plus unburnt rocket fuel is its own warhead. We were able to slip away in the mass chaos/ panic of suddenly having the ship that was sailing next to you basically "dev strike" the entire battle group. Now that was about 6,000 people that were REALLY pissed. We managed to troll folks on a scale most reading this will have no comprehension of for 2 more days until several ships whose idea of funny shit didn't match ours killed us. Which honestly it wasn't hard we were a few hours from being DIW Dead In the Water, to anyone that still isn't getting it that means we were just about out of fuel. We sure as hell didn't get in trouble for playing "unbalanced" We were authorized to fly the skull and bones for the remainder of the exercise. In war it pays to cheat :) I had a bit of a senior moment apparently and forgot the name Jolly Roger and wrote skull and bones.

@@aristosachaion_ the problem is Shimakaze is a piece of shit garbage of a ship that got ridiculously powercrept. The Gearing in other hand got less powerful torp but the lower reload speed, lower detection while still has range over 12km make it a much more reliable torpedo than Shima Long Lance, also LITERALLY EVERY TIER 10 DD in this game can R@PE the Shima. Shima play style is extremely passive and team dependent compare to cap contester gunboat like Z-52 6km hydro or Daring, or the hybrid gunboat ship like Gearing and Grozovoi, the 4 examples I give above only has 400-500m concealment disadvantage against Shima which unless the Shima is on speed boost and is kiting away, the 400-500m buffer range is not that much of an " advantage " Shima has, consider Shima turning circlr is HUGE. And let not mentioned the Yueyang which has 7.5 km radar that nulify any stealthiness Shima possess, and Yueyang torpedo is on par with Halland torpedo is that they are fast and hard to detect. There is no reason to play Shima and Clan battle reflect that. The ship is shit and has 0 competitive value

8km torpedoes are pointless because you can use the 12km below 8km and perform almost identically... But also get 4 more kilometers if you need, notably for radar.

He didn't ignore the cap. It was a tradeoff. Halland harass and kill was infinitely more important than cap. Turning around for the cap means losing Halland, giving him time to heal, and giving CV opportunity to support/defend Halland.

i like 8km torps too because im better than everyone else so I can use the 20second faster reload and 10kt faster torp speed to great effect instead of bumbling around at 12km with torps flying radially away from each other, giving ships much greater ability to dodge the 10 kt slower torps. If youre bad at playing Shima, use 12km torps, if youre a unicum, use 8km.

The OG DD torps hurt like a b*tch

​​@@paddington1670 Dzello is not completely wrong. The reaction time difference between 12km and 8km is not worthing the 4km range lose. I love to play with 8km, but if on your flank, the ennemy defend... it will be quite hard to hit something with that torps. And I would say if you re a bad shima player, you play with the 20km ones.

Isnt 60%?

Shima is a good DD if you are crap at the game. Launch torps every 2-3 mins, WOW, what an amazing DD.

@@MrRadialdrift But a good player, knows that playing a Shima well is much more than just using trops every 2 minutes. I often get more damage in spotting than I get with trops. I often finish off low health ships with my guns. I’m often in the top 3 of XP earned, even without a single trop hit.

@@neilevenden3481 I have yet to see a good Shima player, probably due to good players using better/other T10 DD's. The Shima is useless in ranked, and I can't recall winning a ranked match with one on my team, which shows just how ineffective it is as a DD. I would say of all the T10 DD's in game right now, it would be the 2nd worst with Gearing being the worst. I can perform the same role in a Vampire II, while also controlling caps, and hurting DD's, CL's and BB's. You said it best by saying it has great stealth, good players don't need stealth in a DD to contribute to their team. Players that rely on stealth I have found, are very average players. I see people complain a lot about how hard French DD's are to play. Why? Because French DD's have poor stealth, yet are great DD's.

@@MrRadialdrift I haven't played much rank, so you may be very accurate that other DDs are better suited for that Meta. However, in Clan Battles the Shima and Gearing are regular participants. In my Clan, in this past season, I would think that about 80 of the DD my clan played and a majority that we faced were Shimmys and Gearings. Interesting. I think it is because we truly play as a team, with team strategy and voice comms, Know ing what is requested of you, and informing your team what you are doing, makes these two ship very valuable in CB. Recently I had a CB game, where I spotted 2 enemy DDs and my team killed them both. I never launched a trop or fired my guns. In less than 30 seconds our opponent's had zero DDs and we went on to victory. I don't play Shimmy much Rank or Randoms, because communication is so important to make it work well. It is not so much about what you can do, but about how you can make thinks happen for your teammates.

​@@neilevenden3481 Right, so its a ship that only works with a large group of mates, and having worked out a strategy for each map beforehand. Which is interesting, as I can't recall seeing successful teams in King of the Sea employing the Shima as a go to choice for DD. It sounds like the team you played in CB that lost 2 DD's in 30 seconds were useless players, ie didn't know the map, couldn't work out the most obvious path of your ship. CB doesn't have a higher level of players or skill or intelligence, so that example means nothing. CB is filled with as many potatoes as Randoms and Ranked. So your claim of it being one for the best DD's in the game, which includes non-tech tree DD's, seems a bit misguided if it only works under very specific circumstances. I can come pretty close to performing the same tactic in a Vampire II, I just get 300m worse stealth. Look at the example shown in this video where the Halland runs from the Shima. This is more about the poor play of the Halland and nothing to do with the Shima. The Halland had 2 options, either charge the Shima and kill it or use engine boost, don't shoot the guns and leave detection range, yet this guy claims- quote 'This ship can be a very devastating Gunboat'. That might be the must BS claim I have ever heard about a ship in WOWs. The Shima would struggle against almost any T9-10 DD in a gunfight, even T8 DD's wreck Shima.

I think it is a hell to switch from the normal torp turning to the turning slowed by the legendary. I played it and was not able to chance my type of play and handle the slow turning. After i regrinded the tree and played Shima with the legendary, i had no problems to deal with it. So if you have it and feeling bad about, give it a 2nd try.

yeah shima would have had a much higher winrate if people stopped using 20km torps.

If it's not because of it being a replay, i would also love to know the answer

Same here... I run most of my build slanted towards improving the guns. The torps do fine for me without anything but the swift fish.

It's more of a shooting once and disappeared. Like Venezia and Vermont. They have great alpha but low rate of fire. It become worse if you have to fight in prolonged engagement which enemy DPM will catching up to your alpha

He’s not wrong. That HE slaps. But your average player and the community/Reddit at large smooth brains themselves into things like “shima can’t torp” or “elbing can’t knife fight other DDs” when smarter players know this to definitely not be true.

He's not wrong though. The Shima line can be "gunboats", but only in situations that are unfair for the enemy. I was able to outplay a Kidd in a Kagero by shooting him in his smoke, and since my rate of fire was so slow, he couldn't get an accurate bead on my position within my own smoke.

True I guess

in my opinion Hayate needs 6.0 of spoting distance and a separate slot for fast reload torps consumable

​@@Bender76048k Pretty much my thoughts too. I'm pretty sure that just not losing the smoke would mean I could get some benefit out of the guns and thus balance out its deficiencies. Getting comparable spotting to other pure torpedo boats would certainly help its counter-DD play, although that might make it a bit too buff against other torpedo boats given its HP pool and HE DPM. Even just lowering the torpedo reload booster's cooldown so it's easier to keep them synchronised with the tubes would be nice too.

@@Ace42x I have been re thinking about it, and you are right mate. Only the separate slot for fast reload torps should be enough and balanced

it's rly easy^^ there have been tons of Tournaments where the teams picked a Haru for that exact reason :D (despite it being a dpm machine)

@@Tearnofear Thank you for the info. I don't watch those or care about those, so I didn't know.

@@ElsinoreRacer

tbf a lot would like me if spotting and support would give mire points. I mean even cv would prob play more supportive but there is not just no point in doing so (in terms of rewards) but also someting against it. If you spot and do no damage and get killed you red a warning and if you go without damage again you get an auto ban for afk even if you spot and got spotting damage and so on which is a joke and against a spotting (support role) i mean you cna do damage but risk to reveal yourself and get shot in the first 2 minutes thus most just spam torps then retreat until they are reloaded. Also the BBs camping behind is not just beecause of that but also since a lot of Cruisers can 1 shot a BB with torps. They should nerf Cruiser torps to 50% damage but buff the reload speed a bit in return and slow the torp speed of them. Its just not fun rn unless youre a good cv player or play cruiser (as casual at least since you get shredded otherwise)

Absolutely! The legendary mod takes your detection down to 5.6 km.

Ah I see man of culture

Hardly anyone uses 20km, they're pretty useless: slow, detected from really far away and have the slowest reload

Legendary mods are bought using RB (Research Bureau) points. RB is unlocked after you researched 5 Tier X ships of any nation or type. To get RB points, you need to reset a line and grind it from the beginning. So, if you choose to reset your Shima line, your Shima will be sold automatically and all equipment demounted (for no doubloons). Then you will have to grind the entire line again. Resetting an entire line gives you 10k RB Points, or double if it is your first reset of the season. You do get 10k RB Points when you first unlocked the RB itself though Saving for Ohio rn as Monty was my first Tier X and performs fantastic in CB (Ohio is pretty much the meta rn)

@@vortex6818 TY for the info. The shima will be my 5th T10 ship. But I hate the idea of losing her. Besides I am close to completing the campaign for Yamamoto. I assume Grinding a DD line is faster than a DD. And I assume I have to complete the regrind to get more research points.

I think you press z

1-Torps ARE useless in a DD duel. Anyone using torps reduces gun DPM, and anyone getting hit by torps was in such a terrible position already that they would've lost the duel anyways. 2-So someone has a really great game, there's always the "critics" who point out 10 million things about why it was a unique situation. No shit it was unique which is why the game was posted. Yes there was luck involved but skill was required to capitalize. 3-CV was bothered with securing the other caps. He only went after PQ when Halland was alive. After Stalin and Halland died the bottom flank was lost and all ships should have kited away instead of dying to torps. 4-PQ pushed the Halland fight because it was favored. Hindenburg support and smoke available. This had nothing to do with Halland "skill". Once Stalin died, the Halland was doomed with PQ's RPF, speed, and Hinden support.

@@blusafe1 again so you get it: legendarie mod on shima nerfs the ship 2ways and making a video ,with very rare conditions and against 3 paid actors promoting a bad mod saying the ship that way is amazing ? no dud its not amazing, its a meme. pretty sure you can quickly switch to torps between 5 secs reload on main guns unless your keyboard is broken, right?? i ve had a good game with 15km gunboat shima with F3s, should i make a video telling people they should play it cause its amazing or for the memes?

Is this a critique? Because PQ literally credits the Hinden to why he pushed and won that Halland fight.

This is my Random win rate in a nutshell. I hit 1,000 battles with like a 49 to 50% WR. I have improved since then but WR down to like 46%... I am consistently the top player on the losing side. Sigh

@@danielpayne1597 I hear you. But then you can get a day like I had yesterday with 8 wins in Random with a T5 Pan Asian DD

​@danielpayne1597 well at least your average xp should be good.

UU fits in the slot 6... so the increase in torp reload time is very very little...can someone verify?

Through the Research Bureau, which requires you to have 5 tier 10 tech tree ships, or to get research points from something like a dockyard event.

@@NotTheRookie thx

Good luck trying to make people pronounce karate correctly.

Well it can do to any DD. Even to Halland.

@@vitezslavlorenc3479 At least Halland can dish some damage and end that spotting. Shima could smoke I guess.

I think it just people catching up to these old mechanics. Years and years of content on this game, people will one way or another know that random movement help them dodging torps

if youre in a stealth boat, you dont face enemies from the same position as your teammates, you are actually on the enemy flanks so you're the only one seeing enemy broadsides, others also no point torping kiting ships. and make sure you have RPF

So you're mad that your torps forced the enemy into eating broadside citadels? Sounds like you're playing Shima correctly.

Technically, the reason Shimakaze players play this far is radar.

@@dzello people dont realize radar has a cooldown. That cooldown gives you a window to wreak havoc and then get out

@@shoukatsukai First, that's assuming there's only one radar. Second, the window is not that big (the practical window is very slim, especially if other destroyers are in the area). Third, the window of 12km radars is even smaller (because you have to cover more ground to go in and more ground to go out). And like I said, the 12km works almost equally as good as the 8km for the same ranges, except the 12km can also go 4km further and deal more damage. The 8km are a meme, but they are inferior in every practical aspect.

@@dzello Technically the reason Shimakaze players play this far is they're bad

If there is radar in the game then it pays to stalk at a range that lets you slip out of the detection range relatively quickly. Especially if that radar ship has friends. Once the radar is gone then by all means slip into 7km or thereabouts.

I'm gonna assume that's for torpedo boats cause that's just straight up wrong playing any gun boat. I play kleber Marceau and Ragnar most but I've played khaba and Sherman with CV games too and the CV has near no effect on my match at all if anything it's better cause then the CV is struggling to hit me while my team is free to push. Even for torpedo boats though that just doesn't sound right since most of them have a smoke screen for exactly that reason.