If War Wagons aren't on this list I am gonna be disappointed.

For anyone who needs it 1:04 brettonian 2:33 scaven 4:44 Vampire counts 6:18 Vampire coast 7:48 Dark elves 9:02 lizardmen 10:52 wood elves 12:26 dwarves 15:58 Tomb kings 17:37 Greenskins 19:47 beastmen 21:51 Norsca 23:08 chaos warriors 23:42 high elf 27:42 empire hope this was helpful to someone. Sorry If somone has already done this but I went looking so i could rewatch the darkelf bit and couldn't find one.

You realise that people will now specifically manufacture saves with their armies consisting of solely those, right?

"Brettonia's worst unit is Mounted Yeomen." AI Brettonia: "I'm going to pretend I didn't see that."

LegendofTotalWar: "Brettonia's worst unit is Mounted Yeoman." Peasants: *collective exhale*

"The Bloated Corpse is a living joke" But Legend, it's undead

Legend: "The only one use for the war wagons is against bloated corpses..." Me: Ah, of course, shot them and retreat when they get close. Legend: "...because you would have this unit charge into a bloated corpse to get rid of it" ... He's not wrong tho.

“You can’t just spam artillery.” *laughs in hellstorm rockets*

Another update on the War Wagons: Their damage has been increased 10x since this video. Literally, they do 10x as much damage. They are actually useful now.

I’m going to do a White Lion of Chrace only campaign on legendary, and when I’m about to lose I’m gonna send it to legend

Bloated Corpses? Bad? NO! They're fantastic! They kill a bunch of my worthless Skavenslave and saves me having to feed them after a battle!

As of the Throt/Sisters DLC, Hawk Riders are AMAZING if you are playing as the Sisters of Twilight. They get a unique bombardment ability that hammers units of all stripes, along with a few campaign perks as the Sisters get stronger. I use them all the time, but only for the Sisters because they can punch well above their weight class.

"Theres only one thing worse then a Troll" "Boom" "A giant.."

1:05 #15 Bretonnia - Mounted Yeomen 2:35 #14 Skaven - Clanrats 4:44 #13 Vamp Count- Corpse Carts 6:19 #12 Vamp Coast - Bloated Corpse 7:48 #11 Dark Elf - Cold One Knights/Dreadknights 9:04 #10 Lizardmen - Bastillodon (All) 10:53 #9 Wood Elves - Hawk Riders 12:26 #8 Dwarves - Slayers 15:58 #7 Tomb Kings - Carrion 17:38 #6 Greenskins - Trolls 19:48 #5 Beastmen - Giant 21:55 #4 Norsca - Giant 23:12 #3 Chaos - Giant 23:45 #2 High Elf - White Lions 27:42 #1 Empire - War Wagon

I actually find having a bloated corpse on each flank is pretty nice for dealing with cavalry flank attacks. Was about to get charged by a rank 7 centigors with great weapons once, corpse just walks infront of them and pops killing 90% of their unit and insta shattering them.

*looks at the date* *sees February 2020* "Ah, this was made in the Before Time."

Watching your vids religiously in preparation for my inevitable battle against the Bald Italian

The High Elven Giants are truly awful, I gotta agree with Legend on this one.

"The only reason you'd bring a warwagon is too charge it into a bloated corpse to get rid of it" I was fucking dying

That was entertaining and informative. Thank you. You made a mistake though: Skavens should have been #13.

Me: *Recruits war wagon and sends in a disaster save* Legend: "Even the worse players in the game don't have these in their army" Me: ....shit

"Never recruit slayers." THAT'S GOING IN THE BOOK!

The bloated corpse gets such great value in the early game though. They literally delete the most dangerous unit the AI tosses at you, and can basically keep it from flanking. If you use it right, it can delete two whole units. Now I don't play legendary difficulty, so maybe the AI runs away from them there, but damn, I giggle to myself over deleting higher value troops that could have wrecked me otherwise.

Saying I shouldn’t recruit bloated corpses is like saying I should throw away a cheap vortex instant.

Someone needs to create a mod that gives a single faction all of these units and nothing else. Then Legend has to do a livestream with that modded faction.

alternative title: The true WH2 Patrician's Doomstack top 15

Slayers always overperform in my campaigns, I have had a a few fights where I was counting on losing the infantry fight but for some reason slayers always do better than I expect them to in wrong match ups.

It interesting to see how some of the units on this list Legend now loves. The Hawk Riders got buffs and are now great and Legend now likes using the Bloated Corpse. It's great early game and in an emergency through Raise dead. With the new Dwarf Grudge mechanic giving you a reserve of Slayers they are used as an emergency army along with the RoRs.

Legend: "you shouldn't recruit corpse carts" AI: "I do what I want and I like what I do" *puts 15 carts into every army*.

Please do Top 5 Saving disaster campagins YOU couldnt do, even with cheese

Looking forward to the updated video with game 3 races!

Although I understand, why you wouldn't want to recruit bloated corpses, I find them to be quite useful as a garrison unit: Since the AI likes to blob a lot, you can get >100 kills with them regularly and as opposed to basically every other unit in the game it doesn't matter that they spawn with low health right after taking a settlement.

“It’s bad at everything that it attempts to do” wow, I didn’t know I’d ever make it into one of these lists

I love it how to Skaven roster is so damn strong that you have to throw Clanrats under the bus.

Legend: Hawkriders are shit! CA: And I took that personally.

16:14 “barracks’s” you feeling like Gollum or Sméagol? 😂😂

As far as Bloated Corpses go i have to strongly disagree. They are amazing at cheaply taking out heavily armored blobs at the early part of the campaigns. Saurus, Dread Corsaires, Dwarves and whatever other early heavily armored infantry is both cheaply and easily dealt with Bloated Corpses. The AI is not smart enough to focus the BCorpses and you can simply let the AI pile up on your trash melee and then get a massive explosion killing multiple units of heavier armor infantry. They are even great at countering early armored cavalry because, you guessed it, the AI is not smart enough to move the expensive cavalry (which is charging at gun line) away from the intercepting BCorpse. Due to its victims usually routing after losing 90% of their health it also affects enemy morale since whatever unit you blew up the BCorpse on is valuable (not expendable). Its literally a "one use" mini nuke (or a land mine) that allows you to cheaply and quickly deal with armored units some AI uses a lot in the early/mid campaign. Raise dead makes it even better because you can just instantly (and without the monster building) recruit BCorpses as disposable armor-killer. Yea the mortars and polearms zombies and zombie handguns are at the same tier but having 2 bloated coprses in your army is vastly more useful than having 2 more melee zombies. Due to AI being stupid the BCorpse can easily trade 1:1 versus expensive deadly early game units such as saurus - if you blob enemy with your lord it can even kill multiple armored units for a price of just 1 BCorpse (lords suffer almost no damage from it).

Giants: *Exists* Legend: *ANGERY*

The biggest problem I have with giants (besides their lack of splash damage) is that they constantly exit melee and just stand there staring off into the distance. They never move with the battle line or pursue enemy units, and seem to get stuck on friendly units. For some reason it's extremely hard to get them to engage enemy units. It's why they are greatly outperformed by regular savage orcs.

The use I found for the slayer units is that they are good for protecting your back line from flying units or spawned units. And situationally they can also be useful if they remain hidden until the last moment and charge the enemy infantry on the flank. Or even keeping them in reserves until melee is met, and then flanking the enemy. Or they keep a large unit that would otherwise tear through your main line busy. There are a few good uses for them actually, I initially had thought of only one.

"At number 15, we have Bretonnia. The whole thing. All of Bretonnia. Don't even occupy it as Empire, just burn it to the ground."

Talking about white lions, its quite funny that high tier walls are worse than low tier walls because they replace sea guards with white lions.

11:22 "Hawk Raiders are shit." That didn't age well

Hawk riders are awesome now with the sisters of twilight, making it up to a must have in every army :)

I love how KZfaq made automatically generated subtitles in Korean

I agree that I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t give war wagons more missile damage... have them be using larger muskets that could only be used effectively due to their weight by leaning them on the wall of the war wagon or something.

The Chaos Giant is just so depressingly weak, there's a mod that adds a forsaken Giant in Total War 1 that is both, quicker, more resistant to missiles and isn't forced into their own building slot. Making the Chaos Giant completely redundant

Title should be changed to "Units You Should Never Recruit For Every Race on Legendary Difficulty"

so in case you want to set up a disaster battle for legend - here is your tutorial

Bloated corpses are better on the enemy team. Just charge your leader into a crowd as long as you're confident he'll survive and watch the bloated corpses jump into the middle of their own troops and absolutely destroy them. Works well at the start of Harkon's campaign in the first battles.

Update on the War Wagons: They got a buff and their ranged damage went from 33 to 55, which is a big increase...but it's still nowhere near enough. 1 unit of Outriders have a total of 1980 missile damage (per 10 seconds), 1 unit of war wagons have 220 missile damage, meaning that it would take exactly 9 units of war wagons (36 wagons total) to match the missile damage of ONE unit of Outriders. They are also MORE expensive. Compare that with Scourgerunner Chariots, that cost only 100 more (850 vs 950) that have more range, more damage, a huge bonus vs large and can actually be used as real chariots. It has 90-ish missile damage with a whooping +40 anti large, meaning that it has 2.5 times the ranged damage when shooting at large AND better melee stats. Yes, they are 100 more expensive, but they are also twice as valuable.

Bloated corpses actually have two uses, they can be(note "can") useful in an ambush, sort of, and they are the cheapest siege attacker in the game. Which is quite useful if you happen upon an enemy city that has walls but is otherwise unprotected, just raise one up, use it then replace it after...

"Giant Only" campaign when?

War Wagons finally won something...

When you speak so wisely about something I play amateurishly, is fascinating. Subscribed. Enjoying your content.

The splash damage and burst potential of the Solar Engine Bastilodon makes including a few of them in to a Stegadon doomstack somewhat worth it. They can melt the most dangerous or most densely packed groups of enemies (like the anti large or monstrous units) while your stegadons meet the enemies charge. They're definitely worse in melee, but they're still better in melee than most artillery in the game.

Legend: You don't ever need to recruit this unit... Quest: Recruit this shit unit and waste 2-4 turns for it if you want this super glorious awesomesauce item Me: F-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-....

I love the bloated, against mass infantry, and with skillful dodgeing with a leader ahead of them, they can even take out bunches of both :)(inf and arc). But yes, they suck ,but the comic value is awesome,,,, :),

you learned me good, thanks!! :-)

You should do a follow up on how you’d fix the units like increasing damage or unit size or build tree mechanics

I feel like Legend has a Giant chip on his shoulder.

Legend doesn't appreciate the strategery that is quad bloat

One of your best videos! Stuffed with info! I'd love nothing more than a video for every race in a similar style... Just a quick "what works and why? what sucks and why?"

Legend: "The worst wood elves unit are the hawk riders." me: *laughs in Heralds of Ariel* Yes, I know it's an old video.

"I never see a saving your disaster campaign sent in with people with war wagons in their army" You just cursed yourself goof

"How many Giants do you wa-" Legend: *No!*

I used war wagons in my game and... although I can't say they were my favorite unit I don't remember thinking negatively of them. Can't imagine any time they swung a battle in my favor nor anytime i lost because of them, hated the mortar variant though, loved the hellblaster volleygun ROR

"it's a unit that would be useful in the late game, and not useful in the early game, but you wouldn't ever recruit it in the late game... because it's so shit!" Favorite quote on youtube 2020.

Hold my beer, I'm gonna go make a War Wagon doomstack.

Can't wait for Ogre Kingdoms to come out so Slave Giants can join your "worst of" list.

This video is very reminiscent of arguments we had back in the days of the actual tabletop game. Feels weirdly nostalgic.

early game the war wagon is good for like luring units away deny engagement for those units chasing the war wagons like for examples norsca mostly melee if you like get close to their formations with the war wagons you could redirect some norscan units from the formation disrupting the enemy formations in the process, like those who dont chase the war wagons engage the units but for those who are chasing the war wagons they might take a while before they get back in line making it easier for your men to finish off the rest of those units.

17:40 Agreed that Trolls do not fit well into your "typical Greenskin" roster. - They rather self-evidently become far more of an option when playing Goblins with Skarsnik, though.

Lmao I can't with the cold Knights one. I've downloaded a mod that changes the name of cold ones into clever girls and it's never been the same. Lmao clever girl Knights

To be fair, I found Bastilodons useful in Tiktaq'to campaign. The Solar Engine variant is very useful against Tomb Kings (the fire damage and the "blinded" debuff are really useful), and the revivification crystal variant is useful for armies that don't have a Life Slann.

Second time watching this. Again, very entertaining. Your sense of humor and unapologetic passion for the game make this entertaining for anyone, not just other nerds.

For Skaven you probably should have mentioned that Queek can take clanrats for almost the same cost as Skavenslaves which means in that one specific instance there is reason to recruit them instead.

Number 15 : brettonia foot lettuce

The upkeep of Slayers can be halved with a follower. They are extremely strong against enemy lords and so are very effective against vampire counts. You can send 3 or 4 slayers against Manfred, and he will die in about 20 seconds they will also push trough most of the enemies easily.

Used to go with Bastilodon Solar engines as my go-to choice for Lizard artillery. After switching to Stegadons, have to admit, it really is the better choice. The amount of friendly fire incidents has dropped dramatically, which all my Carnosaur-mounted heroes and lords were grateful for, and even when the enemy made it into melee, the Stegadons have held the line far more reliably too.

Bloated bois are great T1 units. I finished noctilus and found great use for them. High elves will get swordmaster and phoenix guard spam early on. A bloaty can nuke either of those, and if they bunch up you can nuke 2 of them or 1 and a half. Your other T1 units are worthless. Pistol zombies might kill 10, deck crew might get 2 before being deleted. Your 2nd army should raise as many of these bloats as he can get. When battle begins Against lizardmen they're overpowered. Hit the temple guard in city garrisons or on the field, when they clump, to make up for the tech disadvantage. Watch saurus's with shields who otherwise are perfect counters to vamp coast (shielded vs ranged, massacres deckhands without effort) go berzerk after getting blown up to 10 models. It's almost guaranteed to make lizard infantry go primal And after the battle you're free of the upkeep at the end turn, whereas pathetic deckhands and gunnery mobs will have to be paid for even if they have 10 models left. Against two rank 5+ swordmasters in a typical raid on high elves you can: - Use deckhand mobs to hold the line for 10 seconds, get 1 kill and disintegrate - Use gunnery mobs to get 10 kills for pistol or 30 with handcannons - Send in the BLOAT BOY, get 150 kills as the AI charges both units into the charging bloat

"White lions of kraice, traise or whatever its pronounced as... its a white lion of trash." I died xD

Slayers are amazing when you don't attack the enemy. Once the enemy army breaks you chase them down with fast forwarded jiggling death machines. That boosts my morale.

This is why unit caps for all is the only unit cap mod that works and the only way to play the game for me. If the correct play is to not use a unit, to not experience a piece of content designed by the devs, then something has gone wrong. That's just my personal preference and I can well see how other players enjoy the feeling of understanding the game well enough to know which units to avoid, but that isn't for me - I want every single unit in my faction's roster playing a significant role in my armies. I want to feel grateful when I find that I still have capacity to recruit more Bastiladons when I hit my limit for Stegadons. I want to have to use mounted yeomen cav to fill out my bretonnian armies with cav while I try to increase my caps for knights.

This is exactly the kind of content I was hoping you'd make!

Love hearing the increasing animation and vitriol in Legend's voice as he works his way through the list :D

a lot of these units have purposes that makes them valid picks under certain circumstances such as against certain factions, so many aren't really a "never" thing, they just shouldn't be in your standard mix, they are used for a specific purpose and should only really be used as such

I think CA missed a chance to integrated the Handmaiden building and make it an upgrade to the WL one. Also, for a unit that had iirc the highest strength infantry attack on the tabletop (at least in WHFB) they were kind of left floundering in TWW.

15th *Mounted Yeomen* I always saw the Mounted Yeomen as a dedicated "anti-artillery" unit : they're cheap, they're fast and, above all, they have _"vanguard deployment."_ And, believe it or not, when i played Bretonnia in warhammer 1, i had some of them in my late game armies sorely in order to both deal with the Hellcannons (which they proved to be surprisingly efficient at killing in melee.) Better yet, since they are shit units, they reduce the threat level of your army and makes for perfect material to bait the A.I. into attacking your army outright (whereas with better unit it could've avoided you.) 14th *Clanrats* Not gonna argue with the cost efficiency comparison with the Skavenslaves. It's self-explanatory. But i'm going to point out that, over time with researches and skills, both units gets a significant improvment to their respective role : Skavenslaves can replenish extraordinarily fast while costing absolutely nothing in terms of upkeep, while Clanrats end up gaining the _"Expendable"_ trait and become more reliable in melee - not simply stalling anymore but actually scoring hits on the ennemy. It ultimately comes down to _"what kind of meatshield you want to field"_ and constructing your army around that choice (which is very Skaven like and i'm fine with that.) 13th *Corpse Cart* I am in total agreement. No argument there. 12th *Bloated Corpse* Big disagreement. Bloated Corpses are like mini-doom rockets : it kills everything in a radius around it. With proper placement and planning, it is possible to lure multiple ennemy infantry units into blobbing against one of your -inexpensive- zombie mob and then having it rush there, murdering everything in a blast. If anything, it's the one unit that encourages you the most to use your zombies as bait against elite infantry units, only to have a whole chunk of them getting blasted into oblivion by the warhammer version of the Left 4 Dead "Boomer." Additionnaly, though it is a minor point, the Vampire Coast do have a retainer obtained through research that gives the _"Stalk"_ trait to an unit equipped with it. I leave the rest to your imagination. 11th *Cold One Knights and Dreadknights* Total agreement there too. 10th *Bastiladon* I wouldn't exactly say that the Bastiladons aren't useful. While it is true that Stegadon are factually stronger than Bastiladons, it's true purpose consist in facing off the strongest units of the ennemy armies - ergo, being an anti-elite unit. So when your Stegadon end up being charged and/or bogged down by low-tiers units, even when winning you actually end up losing the exhange because the A.I. makes you waste a good unit against bad ones. The Bastiladon on the other hand is still a monstruous unit, causing _"Fear"_ and _"Terror"_ with insane amount of armor, a small missile resistance and a dedicated armor-piercing anti-infantry melee, all at a cheaper price. In short : it's a perfect anti-low tiers unit. The "Ark of Sotek" variant screams "anti-Expendable" to me ; the "Solar Engine" variant can actually out-perform the Stegadon when it comes to dealing with units that have very high physical save and/or are vulnerable to fire, on top of debuffing their melee for a while ; Finally, the _"Revivification Crystal"_ still do give you multiple equivalent uses of _"Invocation of Nehek"_ for no winds of magic cost, AT ALL (and you can combine it with a Slann of Life to make it even more powerful.) Honestly, give them a try. With research and skills, you will be surprised at how good they can perform for their cost. 9th *Hawk Riders* I haven't played enough with those units to give a proper answer. So i'll pass. 8th *Slayers* I completely disagree. Your argument consist in considering ALL Dwarven infantry unit as tanking units - units that takes a beating more than they give - and never diverging from that assumption. Slayers are infantry unit that discard defense (and as such tanking) completely in favor of overwhelming offence : they strike fast (for a dwarf) and strike hard. They're not made to wait for the ennemy and hold the line : they wait for the monsters, cavalry, chariots and ennemy Lords on mount to come close and massacre them. In fact, you won't find any other unit as punishing to ennemy flying unit than Slayers when it comes to attacking the dwarven artillery and missile units from above. So much so that i find myself recruiting Slayers more often than i recruit Irondrakes with Troll torpedoes. 7th *Carrion* Anti-artillery. And that's litteraly it because the Tomb Kings are overall slow as fuck - only the Carrions have the speed and melee demage to reliably destroy ennemy artillery (apart from your own artillery.) 6th *Trolls* Not gonna argue there. 5th, 4th and 3rd *Giants* And here we have it : the one unit pretty much everyone agree on saying that it's universally crap. (Which is kind of an accomplishment in and of itself, come to think of it...) 2nd *White Lions of Chrace* Again, i am in full agreement. 1st *War Wagon* Amen to that. Worst part is, if at least kitting was working properly and you could order your unit to target and keep on shooting at one specific unit, instead of having your unit change targets to the closer one to itself as soon as you order it to move, it would be bearable. Not good but bearable. But the skirmish system is so shit in this game and the damage output of the war wagon so ridiculously low, that it's just not worth it. Period.

Mostly agree, but two disputes: - I actually got a lot of use out of bloaties early in my Noctilus campaign, because Lothern got to elite tier units ridiculously fast at VH difficulty. Raise 'em, run 'em out of the forest, and blow up a unit of Swordmasters of Hoeth. But yeah, once you're on your feet and have a good gun line they are garbage. - A single unit of carrion is nice to take down siege engines. Carrion *do* defeat low tier archers and siege crews on VH battle difficulty in my experience.

The ROR war wagon is good, and the war wagon with mortar is decent in campaign, and an auto pick for me in mp because its easier to defend then mortars as its faster and can take some light combat .

Sounds 90% of the problems are "they don't suck, but they take up a build slot" Hopefully they re balance that in twwh3

Hope they make white lions useful in the high elf dlc we ought to be getting. One of my favorite looking units, been disappointed with their performance since I first used them on release.

I want to see a doomstack of war wagons now and see how effective it is.

There is one good use for Carrion. Against Dark Elves they can be used to neutralise Reaper Bolt Throwers which can be pretty deadly. Also against Beastmen they are surprisingly good at tying down Cygors - not good at killing them, mind you, but they are able to keep them from attacking your army for long enough for you to finish off the rest of the Beastmen. So yes they are terrible, but against Beastmen and Daek Elves it can be worth it to have one unit in your army just in case.

Just starting my first ever play through in this game as High Elves, and I can say this: White Lions are horrendous, and I’m infuriated the Vortex campaign requires you to recruit them for a quest. Regarding Great Eagles, I love using them to flank opposing artillery. Gives me time at the start of battles to advance my infantry safer, and sometimes draw opposing forces back giving me a better chance to secure high ground locations.

I feel like this whole list was just an excuse to pick on war wagons lol You were so calm until you brought them up

"bloated corpses are a *living* joke" LegendofTotalWar 2020

Fun video cheers! Didnt expect the white Lions to be here, but giving it some thought it does make a good deal of sense. I mean heck the Silverin guard outperforms them on every turn and they are in the same price category more or less. Yeah Cygors are neat, to bad instead the so much coveted Gorghon they got the ever boring Giant instead.

18:50 sounds like a cycle charge mechanic to me XD