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How Do DC Fans Actually Work?

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FanPhys

FanPhys

Күн бұрын

I wanted to make just one relatively basic video about the electronics of fans, primarily because we're starting to see three-phase motors in more premium fans like the Phanteks T30. But what does "three-phase" mean, and does it actually make a difference to the fan's performance? Watch the video and hopefully you'll be able to answer these questions for yourself!

Пікірлер: 16
@LogioTek
@LogioTek 6 ай бұрын
I remember I disassembled a brushed motor years ago to clean it. I also had plenty of brushless fans die on me on GPUs when I mined E T H c r y p t o, some even had rotor completely pop off. In my first job I also worked with MCUs and Hall Effect sensors in the past to measure high currents (inrush and geomagnetically-induced, up to thousands of Amps) in conductors in a contactless way - was a product for electric power utilities for power transformers. Fun times.
@FanPhys
@FanPhys 6 ай бұрын
Yeah, I think for mining you would want something extremely high-endurance. Sanyo Denki has an "L" series of fans which is their "Long Life" product line, and some of them have an MTBF of over 200,000 hours.
@korser1328
@korser1328 6 ай бұрын
Hi there! So the Phanteks T30 is a 3 phase, 12 pole fan? My god, that accuracy at 3000rpms is ridiculous! Thank you for testing that. Have you heard of the Super Flower Megacool? I wonder who the OEM is. Also 3 phase, 12 poles, 30mm thickness, and made with LCP just like the T30s but with a different fan blade design. I didn't like them though due to the slight motor hum, but great otherwise. The T30s don't have any hum from my experience.
@FanPhys
@FanPhys 6 ай бұрын
I think the T30 has a six-pole motor, but yes the accuracy is quite something. In my experience, the larger, more powerful motors typically have considerable extraneous noise like hum and whine, so they're not great for low speed / low noise application. I'll have to check out the Megacool - thanks!
@BaghaShams
@BaghaShams 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for another very informative video. I've had a question about computer cooling that I haven't been able to find an answer to for years. Basically, why don't computers ever make use of the Bernoulli principle for cooling? Wouldnt it multiply airflow?
@FanPhys
@FanPhys 6 ай бұрын
You're welcome! Bernoulli's principle is often misunderstood, and it helps to think of conservation of mass / conservation of energy etc. There's always a trade-off to be made, so if you multiply airflow, you'll lose a lot of pressure as a result. Generally speaking, what you're describing is pretty much the dichotomy between axial and blower fans. Axial fans offer significantly more volume flow but at lower pressure, which for PC enclosures is an acceptable trade-off.
@BaghaShams
@BaghaShams 6 ай бұрын
@@FanPhys Ok I think I understand. Thank you for your reply!
@Alexander470815
@Alexander470815 10 сағат бұрын
12 coils will not result in 12 magnetic poles. It will most likely be 12 Slots and 8 poles so four north and four south poles. With a magnetic film you should easily be able to view it. The hall sensor is really not needed for accurate speed sensing since the motor frequency is directly proportional to the speed since it's a synchronous motor. Speed accuracy is really a software and control thing, not dependent on the motor technology itself. Single or three phase does not make a difference at all. Most of the times the PWM input will just result to a PWM of the motor, as the input voltage changes the speed changes as well. A closed loop speed control so like one specific PWM duty cycle results in one specific speed is very rare.
@Xfixiateher
@Xfixiateher 6 ай бұрын
Had to replace the hall effect sensor(SMD) on a fan I somehow accidentally killed, symptoms; not spinning (obviously). Seems to also trigger stall protection; so it cogs and locks the rotor and so little wobble, and Im assuming it pulsing the N+P Fets to get the thing started but fails and goes into fail state then tries again. So did some measuring around the with multimeter, not ideal but works, suspected the hall effect randomly, but saw the pulses to Nfets from 0v to +12v and +12v to 0v on the pfets, the fets where good, also looked as the drive signals from the controller, looked fine, aka no shorts and good voltages. Then measured the voltage to the hall effect 4pin ones, had around 0.6v, removed the hall effect voltage was now 2v, so I'm thinking internally shorted stole a 4pin hall effect sensor for 3phase optical disk drive, very similar drivers btw would be cool if had look at them, how to maybe to get them spinning reliably...etc anyway swapped the hall sensor measuring 1v on the same pins, and put the fan together again and spun up perfectly! side notes; found the Delta fans pretty easy to disassemble, no glue or anything just some small retention ring(not the the one on the fan shaft) holding on bearing housing the stator and stator legs soldered to+ holding the PCB if that makes sense, and you twist back and forth gently and firmly, while pulling up away from the fan shroud but being careful not to pinch the wires too badly, the ones I dissembled only 1 had glue which you break by rotating force which was 120mm delta but still plenty friction and it is keyed and 92/90mm which had no glue was very strong friction fit anyway sorry the rammably comment XD
@FanPhys
@FanPhys 6 ай бұрын
That's an impressive repair job right there - congratulations! And yea, I think I probably will have a go at disassembling a couple of my Deltas in the future. It's interesting to hear that it can be done non-destructively!
@Xfixiateher
@Xfixiateher 6 ай бұрын
@@FanPhyswould be happy to share some pictures of how to disassemble
@aleksandersats9577
@aleksandersats9577 5 ай бұрын
I keep wondering about one thing though. Can you replace the controller entirely and use a brushless motor controller that RC vehicles use? And if you can indeed do this, how much can you push their speed over the rated original?
@FanPhys
@FanPhys 5 ай бұрын
I mean, it's theoretically possible, but the controller is designed specifically for these windings so I think it would be pointless. You can push the speed of a fan by overvolting it (as I do in my other videos) but there's a limit to how far this can go before some of the smaller components burn out and the control circuitry is irreparably damaged.
@aleksandersats9577
@aleksandersats9577 5 ай бұрын
@@FanPhys personally I'd love to find out if it is actually pointless or not, I've got several fans with dead controllers and I don't want to throw them out quite yet!
@ericmarcelo8976
@ericmarcelo8976 2 ай бұрын
I'm curious. Three-phase motors should not need hall-effect sensors to control them. You vary speed by changing the frequency of the pulses and change direction by switching phases. A hall effect sensor would only be needed if you want speed measurement and you'd only need one, not three. If the motor has three hall-effect sensors, then the circuit is probably three single-phase motor controllers designed to operate in tandem. Is this correct?
@Alexander470815
@Alexander470815 10 сағат бұрын
No its not correct. The thing with synchronous motors is that varying the frequency will give you a different speed but any disturbance an the rotor will loose track and come to a halt. This is why hall sensors are needed to monitor the rotor position and apply the voltage accordingly. You can do that without sensors aswell, its called field oriented control FOC. But that does require more sophisticated hardware which is more expensive than three hall sensors.
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