Lest We Forget: The Defeat of Arahantship in Ancient Sri Lanka and it's Lessons For the Future

  Рет қаралды 3,307

Dhamma-Vinaya Patipada

Dhamma-Vinaya Patipada

7 күн бұрын

In Sri Lanka, there is a strong cultural memory of the existence of large numbers of arahants. There is a folk tale that so many arahants used to fly through the sky at a monastery in the south of Sri Lanka that farmers found it hard to grow crops in the vicinity.
The existence of large numbers of Sinhalese arahants is now a thing of the past. What caused the loss of living arahants in ancient Sri Lanka? What can we do to prevent such a thing from happening again in the future?
In this session, we will explore these questions. To answer them, we will travel back to an ancient event, which would have catastrophic consequences for the entire Theravada world.
*Translation credits for the 'Atthakatha debate' to Ven. America Indavamsa

Пікірлер: 28
@anweshakar146
@anweshakar146 5 күн бұрын
Oh the memories from History class in primary school! I am from India and reading about Buddha and King Ashoka in history as a young child always somehow fascinated me and now as a grown up KZfaq has finally helped me understand so much more as a grown adult. I was drawn to Buddhism for good reason, it really has been elemental in dealing with the suffering that came after 🙏🏽
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 4 күн бұрын
Sādhu
@senakadezoysa3759
@senakadezoysa3759 2 күн бұрын
While appreciating the comment, India, as a big country where the Buddha was born, has a similar responsibility or role to play offering Buddha + Ashoka message to promote peace, compassion, altruism, and happiness to humanity. This world is in a totally broken state at the moment. Therefore, people who appreciate Buddha's message of compassion can be regarded as good messengers of hope.
@anweshakar146
@anweshakar146 2 күн бұрын
@@senakadezoysa3759 Definitely. I agree
@stefanvidenovic5095
@stefanvidenovic5095 5 күн бұрын
Amazing! 😁 I'd just like to contribute a clarification on something that was puzzling me for a long time. Towards the end of the video, when answering the question about emptiness (very down-to-earth presentation, nice!), talking about how the self is constructed and that leads to suffering etc, here I add that this construction is not a simple act of will (so that you can also just stop it with a simple act of will here and now), but the result of bad habits (defilements). So the way to stop is to gradually extinguish those bad habits (through Sīla, Samādhi, Pañña gradual training) that feed and maintain this construction of the self. This is a very important detail and something that is never emphasized and explained enough... People often (as I did for a long time) hear that they should not construct the self, then they try to not construct it with some contrived act of will (through some meditation, mental gymnastic or whatnot), inevitably see that it doesn't work like that, and then dismiss the whole thing as impossible. It is an act of will in the end (to apply and stick to the Noble Eight-fold Path), but an indirect one. One of my key and far-reaching "Aha!" moments was when I first connected (in my mind) the mechanics of habits with the Dhamma. Many things began to make vast amounts of sense then.
@juntan2338
@juntan2338 3 күн бұрын
1:09:44 - The purpose of our practice is not to know what Ultimate Reality is. The purpose of our practice is to eliminate our own suffering, to reduce our bad qualities and to increase our good qualities.
@BharathRamesh
@BharathRamesh 5 күн бұрын
dear Bhante Joe, as a history buff, I absolutely enjoyed this talk on the ancient events in SL - most importantly, a powerful and uplifting message of history repeating itself during our times. As a small suggestion, it would be wonderful to have a map or diagram of these events on a timescale as a printout to the audience or a screenshare in the online format to accompany your talks in the future, so that it is even easier to follow while you are sometimes going back and forth between certain events. Looking forward to your next week talk on the Indian version of the decline... In the meantime, wow , Theruwan Saranai :)
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 5 күн бұрын
That's a nice idea, Bharath. Great to hear that you're a history buff too.
@AW15S5
@AW15S5 5 күн бұрын
Very well expounded. Thank you for your presentation. I learned a lot about the evolution of Buddhist sanga in Sri Lanka and how pariyatti overtook the Patipatti over time and it points to the cause of degeneration of Bhikkhu vinya as seen in some sanga institutions in Sri Lanka today. However I could also see a revival of Patipatti among some Sri Lankan monks, specially those who enter the order after the age of 20 or so.
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 5 күн бұрын
That's great to hear re: young monks. We're lucky to be living in an age where patipatti is strong once again.
@kumuduwijetunge2687
@kumuduwijetunge2687 3 күн бұрын
While appreciating your simple yet very powerfull explanation on Sri Lanka history and Buddhism, the history your are relating is now redundend. The Sri Lankan historians and Archeologist have now uncovered the history by reading the inscriptions on stones caves etc. They have discovered that the entire map now we use in buddhist history is fake but are almost everything is located in on this tiny island hence buddhism is still alive in Sri Lanka and will survive for many years to come. Mind you that buddhism is a mainstream religion in Sri Lanka but not so in India. So it is questionable how Buddhism is washed away in India if it was born there. Sri Lanka was under many colonials for 400 years but still they were unable to get rid of Buddhism in Sri Lanka and even today majority of people are following Buddha Darma. Therefor, I humbly request you to read on new discoveries on biddhist history.
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 3 күн бұрын
Please be careful with this line of thinking. The archaeological and textual evidence for Indian origins of Buddhism in India is irrefutable.
@kumuduwijetunge2687
@kumuduwijetunge2687 3 күн бұрын
@@DhammaVinayaPatipada sorry to say that they all were found and were established by non buddhist like anton furea ( a german man) and later found he was a fraudster
@jacobperepolkin9993
@jacobperepolkin9993 4 күн бұрын
Incredible history lesson, I was always confused about why the there was a revival of practice with the Thai forest tradition and this talk really explains well how study took over practice. Really put together some ideas I had learned from teachers but had not yet connected through the big picture of Buddhist history. Thank you very much
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 4 күн бұрын
Sādhu. Wonderful to hear it might have been helpful. This history behind the decline of practice is quite interesting. We're living in quite a fortunate time for Buddhist practice.
@Kaoniao
@Kaoniao 5 күн бұрын
Thank you Ajahn, this was an amazing talk to listen to.
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 4 күн бұрын
Very happy it might have been helpful. Wishing all the blessings of Dhamma practice.
@dexterj5615
@dexterj5615 4 күн бұрын
I absolutely love a good history lesson thank you Bhante
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 4 күн бұрын
Very nice to hear it was helpful. I like learning about history too.
@dharanimadugoda
@dharanimadugoda 3 күн бұрын
Sadu sadu sadu 🙏🏽🪷🙏🏽
@gracjanag3568
@gracjanag3568 5 күн бұрын
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@chagedara3045
@chagedara3045 2 күн бұрын
Nice conversation ......🙏🙏🙏 , Just few things to tell Maliyadewa arahath is not the last arahanth in sri lanka. He is the last person to be arahanth who is one from buddha group(budu pirisa)...it means all those people came as a group by life to life. Second is this is one verse from ""dhammapala"" Oneday one dewa comes and told to buddha... If someone got fire on head ...instead of stopping that...he or she must be try to meditate and prevent nibbana, buddha said no dewa , Instead of doing meditation ...he or she must trying to learn the damma path and make proper vision. Why buddha said this.... Cause if anyone hurry to meditation mean ...without proper vision ...he or she might be stop somewhr else.not priventing nibbana... And buddhas kews that if someone maked proper vision ...they definitely going through that right path. And i dont know how you deviding learning buddhism and practicing buddhism ....for real buddhist those two are like part of a coin.... Practicing mean wether you giving dhana...wether you listing dhamma...all are practicing dhamma...meditation is the main thing . meditation is not only one way to prevent nibbana...what i mean is person who learn....damma is like saving money in a bank... When ever you want .....you can use it. As we heard arahanth sariputta prevent nibbana...by listing while buddha suttra.... As our monk told , 'Atuwawa' is pure buddhist teaching. There is tons of good things that we can grab.you cant straight away say 'atuwawa' is not applicable.... As buddhist you should be able to read it and grab the good on it. At finally it was so happy to listen this discussion .... If im wrong ...correct me....🙏
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 13 сағат бұрын
Theruwan Saranai, I'm glad this discussion was helpful, and it's good that you brought these points up. Regarding Maliyadeva, in Sri Lankan folklore he is generally believed to have been the last Arahant in Sri Lanka. There are other versions of the tale that say he's the last Arhant with psychic powers or the last great Arhant, who has both psychic powers and has memorized the Tipitaka. However, the most common belief seems to be that he was the last Arhant (according to folklore). I haven't heard of this verse from "Dhammapala." I also haven't heard of this text before. If it is not in the Sutta or Vinaya Pitakas, I would be reluctant to consider it Buddha Vacana. Please pass along the reference. I will plan to look it up. As far as I've been able to see, the Buddha's teachings on the balance between study and practice are mostly contained in the suttas referenced at the end of the talk. Learning and practicing Buddhism are integrated. However, the balance between them is something that the Buddha has discussed. If one focuses solely on learning and never gets around to practicing, then it's not that useful. Dhamma is not like saving money in the bank. One cannot spend a lot of time studying and then suddenly 'spend' the Dhamma that one has learned on gaining jhānas or the paths and fruits. The mind develops according to how it is directed. Learning is like having a manual for how to drive a car. Actually learning to drive the car and then being able to drive it to a destination is an entirely different thing. Ven. Sariputta and many others attained Arahantship while listening to the Dhamma. A large part of this was due to the Buddha's skill as a teacher, and the other part was how they had practiced in their life (and lives) beforehand. If people already had 'little dust,' they could make the breakthrough quickly. Before meeting the Buddha, in this life and previous ones, they would have removed a lot of the dust from their eyes by practicing. Many people study these days, but almost no one attains Arahantship. So, there is obviously something missing. In the canon, even the Arahants who reached Nibbāna by listening to the Dhamma do not recommend spending the majority of one's time studying. These are important points to consider. The Atthakatha is not the pure Buddhist teaching. While there are good things in the Atthakatha, it's also clear that there are things which do not match with the Canon. In the case mentioned in this talk, it seems pretty clear that what was inserted was false, and it was inserted for motives that were not pure in terms of the Dhamma. So one should always be very careful to compare what's written in the Atthakatha with what's in the Sutta and Vinaya Pitakas so that one is not misled. And finally, it's good that you reached out with this message. Above are the points in which my understanding is different. If you'd like to continue the discussion, feel welcome to send me a message. Wishing you all the blessings of Dhamma practice. Theruwan Saranai
@priyadarshanachandrasena2062
@priyadarshanachandrasena2062 11 сағат бұрын
🙏🙏🙏🪷🪷🪷
@gimakolla3708
@gimakolla3708 3 күн бұрын
Excuse me bhante,This is absolutely discouraging people over Tipitaka and atthakathas... Scriputures should be there to to be learn and then only the practice will be correct and insightful... Arahant Maliyadewa practiced vipassana for sure...You may not read that part..it is in Katinanisansa katha...once before he attained Arahantship he meditated for entire wassana seoson.. And there are sooooooo many monks in Sri lanka and burma who learns scriptures, follows vinaya and practice meditation correctly... And plz dont distort the record...Buddhaghosa did not write attakathas....ven.Buddhaghosa translated and re arranged existing sinhala attakathas...He clearly mentioned at every point.."this is what Mahavihara elder theras say...This is what my opinion on this point" as so on...So he did not distort any attakathas..he added parts for sure..but those parts are cleary mentioned..
@DhammaVinayaPatipada
@DhammaVinayaPatipada 2 күн бұрын
Theruwan saranai. The last part of the talk gives the recommended balance between study and practice in the suttas. It's clear enough in these suttas. If you have any issues with the evidence presented there, please let me know and I'll respond. The story that you tell about Arahant Maliyadeva is found in the commentary of the Anguttara Nikaya. The quote that I read at the end of this talk is directly taken from the same passage, which you're describing. The passage opens by saying that Maliyadeva attained Arahantship only through study. Then later it says he spent the Vassa practicing meditation and studying. However, the beginning of that passage is very clear that he attained Arahantship through study. I can attach the Pali if you'd like to check. Buddhaghosa compiled the Atthakathas, which I believe was mentioned in this talk. However, this talk makes the clear case that this instance was false and provides historical evidence for this. If you disagree with this evidence, let me know and I will respond. The Atthakathā has many errors. It is beyond the scope of this message to mention them all. Its study should be approached with careful comparison to the Canon. The framework of study, practice, and realization appears comes from an attack on practice and to have basically served that end. People often study, but rarely get to the practice and realization portion. It's time to let that model go and adopt the one in the Canon. A bhikkhu who dwells in the Dhamma studies, but devotes the majority of their time to practice. A learned expert in the Dhamma is someone who learns a four-line stanza and practices in line with it.
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