Nevan Lowe ayyyyyyy

savage

Nevan Lowe I liked when he said that in the stream.

hainsay you're just an idiot.

^ Not worth my time

thats a good definition imo

Not precisely. He was fine with clipping through a wall to prematurely activate a save point, which is _obviously_ a glitch.

Stevethebarbarian he didnt glich through. The hit zone for the checkpoint extends so thats just a bad design decision

XtremeNukeFighters That he took advantage of. So I guess you could say he exploited a glitch.

its just a time saver. Nothing glitchy with it. hitting a trigger unintentionally is not a glitch at all. In certain areas quitting and reloading is a time saver as well and its not a glitch. A casual player could quit there and continue later and that doesnt make him a glitcher lol

To me Mirror's Edge is a video game that hinders my ability to parkour. I play it when I want some restrictions.

Someone needs to talk to the irl game devs, some of these exploits are getting out of hand.

The rules of matter and natural phenomenons don't apply to me, as I wall jump into a dark void and end up on a roof

Ow the edge

Would you say that you live on the Edge? The Mirror's Edge... hahahah *Irish laugh*

GRiMOSAUR Same man, same.

then I immediately disliked

GRiMOSAUR yeah I know this guy is a idiot

8 minutes of pleading for no hate

I wasn't sure if it was him ty dude. Well my dislike is sure

Lagoon kicks the wall flys in the opposite direction. "No major glitches"

Literally watch the end of the video.

STLLR he literally said the community didn't even decide on a the name

Lagoon did they change it? No. That quantifies a decision to me. If the community wants to change that then it's on them. Not us.

STLLR to YOU it qualifies as okay but isn't speedrunning a COMMUNITY and shouldn't the COMMUNITY be the deciding factor?

ViciouslyVicarious i was opting for calling it "a Restricted run" cuz your restricted on the glitches that can be used

69 likes I'm not liking

ViciouslyVicarious honestly I find regular runs more interesting to watch

I don't know what to call it, but I know that admitting that using glitches in a glitchless run is ok is total BS. They way he reacted at GDQ was also BS. Maybe he should have explained it a little more at the start. I just don't think that a glitched game should be allowed for a glitchless run. By his logic, who cares what the community thinks, if the rules for a 'glitchless' run are set, then using the same set rules under a different name would be exactly the same thing. But when you do a WR, who are we catering to? People who might be interested in Speed Running but not actually a part of it, Speed runners in general, or the Mirror's edge Speed Runners specific? I'd say go for all 3. In this case we need to only choose names for what they actually are. A glitched game cannot be part of a glitchless run. I do like the GDQ couch commentator's name... "Glitch Less".

Yes but that doesn't sound as impressive so just go ahead and be disingenuous.

No its just a saying

I don't see an apostrophe between "it" and "s" in your comment. Did you just forget to put it or....is that a glitch?

suiiperable 420 likes •`√•

*Is that a motherfucking glitch reference Is what you wanted to say.

No, that is f- don't worry about it.

Like I said at the end, the name doesn't really matter anyway. There's already a "Glitchless Segmented" run out there, which would suck to re-brand, and the name "glitchless" has a lot of history. It's not worth changing, at this point. I understand where you're coming from, though!

i did watch it to the end, my argument does not come from a place of ignorance.

the tricks allowed are just creative uses of intended mechanics

You'd make an amazing politician with wording bullshit like that.

glitches: creative use of intended mechanics to create new unintended strats tricks: creative use of intended mechanics it's kind of hard to explain really what I mean but clipping out of bounds is obviously a glitch and side jumping and then turning the camera is obviously not and by unintended I mean "not supposed to be possible", not "the developers didn't intend for you to do it this way"

thanks.

u r stanky

If the community agree that white is black, would you agree?

@@piotr.kaczmarski put it in context. If the whole community pointed to a car and said it was a black car, but I saw a white car, I'd have to at least ask some questions and try to get a different perspective. Is there a reflection from this angle? Is this a prank? Am I going blind somehow? Stuff like that. I wouldn't just say "everyone here is wrong!"

This ☝️

Omg 92 people! So many people!

@@ArticularsCA Yes. Speedrunning is indeed a niche hobby to practice. Got any other incredible and insightful commentary?

Mitchell Yep, ty for the reply

That's actually how it works on that site. Game only has 7 mods with this guy seemingly being the founder over there giving him full power. The entire community may consist of 90+ runners, but only mods have any real power. Who's to know how much they'd listen to input. I have seen speedrunning communities over there where the rules were set by a single person and any remark would be shot down with closing threads. But yeah, people are crazy and you just believe anything that the guy in charge tells you...

"The real question is "Do the runners and the Mirror's Edge community like this category and its rules ?" That's the only question that matters. It makes me mad that some people who never were interested in Mirror's Edge runs" Here is the thing do you want esports and speed runs to be taken REMOTELY seriously maybe don't make categories that are contradicting their name. Do you not want people to get interested in the game? Do you want to lose more and more people? Do you want more people to watch speed runs? do you want to possibly earn real money from events? Do you want people to like or dislike you when you say the words speed runner. I do not mind glitching i do mind that the name of the category implies Not Using Any Glitches At All.

Yeah for reals, ppl talking about shit they have no knowledge of. This guy is the world record holder, and most of us just found out about this games existence.... Really cringey stuff ppl are saying down here

@@havtor007 you say that like people speedrun games for others lmao, no one dedicates this much time to a single game just because they want validation from other people, they love the game and want to dedicate themselves to it, simple as

I dunno Rob, how’d he know my birthday was in October?

he says no major glitches like out of bounds but in the speedrun he did he goes out of bounds

@@jackcollier3485 No he didn't, in fact the explained how clipping through enemies isn't a glitch in this video. You're an idiot that doesn't know how to pay attention.

@@urquanseven2332 he clips out of bounds to hit a checkpoint trigger...

Pretty sure it’s fine, don’t worry about it

because he is the one who made them from my understanding

@@rickson50 he didnt

​@@rickson50 i genuinely wonder where you got that from

@@Ascension721 he got it from "i saw this guy play this category and he tried to explain the rules, so it must be him! 🧠"

This guy was in AGDQ, a mayor event, doing a glichless run, then got publicaly confronted for using gliches, because the name glichless, implies not using glitches... like at all. It's a misleading title that leads to confution and changing it to "No major gliches" (At least on events like GDQ) will fix this

Yeah exactly man, lots of random ppl with no knowledge about these speedrunning communities. Like telling experts what they are doing is wrong. Laughable

@@sebastiangudino9377 they did that on purpose lol

@@sebastiangudino9377 the things he's doing aren't necessarily glitches though. They are design oversights. A glitch is a malfunction of programming, not a poorly design program. Example: manipulating pointers in the limited memory in Ocarina of time to get items you aren't supposed to is a glitch. Jumping to a different area of the map because the devs didn't fully account for your jump height and skipping part of the level is not a glitch. Using a kick to cancel fall damage is also not a glitch because that's just the way the game was designed, kicking creates a floor underneath you every time. It's poor design. An exploit, not a glitch.

Req I doubt it ppl so mad about the run lol

Iconic reply

You go through easily avoidable glitches and try to motivate why they shouldnt be banned

There's a number of people who just want to know if you and couch guy (tchops?) are good. Was it a gag for the crowd? Or was that all organic? Is there animosity? WAS there animosity?

​@@DanasLovelyTown 2012?

I agree but the point is "it could accidentally happen to anyone who isnt even trying to speedrun it... so, who is to decide if the speedrunner wanted to do it or it was just casual? I mean... just allow it. It's just too likely to happen in a run than not."

@@torment4723 well if it is a glitch,ban it

@@Kasmuller did you read my comment at all!? I've said it's really likely in a speedrun that doesn't want to use that glitch, to end up using it non voluntarily. That's why that SPECIFIC glitch might be allowed. But for the others i can't pronounce myself.

@@torment4723 It's actually a lot more simple than that, if a speed runner accidentally uses a glitch then it happens on occasion. If the speedrunner is clearly performing that glitch on every run, and/or is performing actions that are clearly based on moving around that glitch, then it's not an accident. MANY of these glitches people use because they're not banned explicitly are not being done accidentally, therefore they're glitches and it's not a glitchless run. It's pretty easy to tell when a glitch is being used, or a glitch just accidentally happens.

@@SherrifOfNottingham going through an enemy because you triggered an animation isn't a glitch though. That's the way the game is designed and it was designed that way in all likelihood to PREVENT glitches.

Because the audience isn't allowed to have an opinion on the content of the competition? Don't tell me you've never watched a game of sportsball and had an opinion on a rule change. The majority of dislikes are probably from people like me, who have a clear desire for an actual glitchless speedrun, which because of speedrunners being unable to control themselves they can't ban all glitches. "Oh what if it accidentally happens" well, it's kind of obvious but I'm sorry shit ass speed runners make some dogshit argument about how resetting a run every time the game glitches is unfair, when the reality is they don't want to ban minor glitches because they want to use them. It's why the runners making the rules is a serious issue, which was literally what Dr TChops ribbed this guy for during the run. Runners SHOULDN'T be making the rules, the community should, and this community SHOULD include non runners.

@@SherrifOfNottingham which btw guess who made the rules the fucking communityyyyy!!!!!

@@SherrifOfNottingham moron lmaoooo

Robbie, if you represent that community, I don't want to belong to it. Also, you are wrong.

@@SherrifOfNottingham if you wanna see a run with literally no glitches then run it yourself??? why are you demanding a community of people to do something for your entertainment? if you want it so bad, do it, nobody's here to stop you

I fall into any% category because people whine if they don't see the boat in glitchless.

ThaRixer he broke one of the rules though at sdgq. He went oob.

that was a meme run anyways.

Trevor Thebo you know what. I think i met run true glitchless. Just for fun. XD

ThaRixer not really considering he used alot of the banned in his run in the beginning video and got called out by the narrator alot so he made this shit.

Huh, cool little piece of info, thanks.

It's not his fault, I'm pretty sure it's fine.

DaFatMan922 just call it "Restricted run"... You know... Cuz your restricted from major glitches.

You can call a lot of categories "Restricted Run". That is an extremely vague name. Hell even Any% is restricted because there is a load based clip we're not allowed to use

but why call it something it blatantly isnt?

The main reason we didn't change to No Major Glitches isn't just by what it is. No Major Glitches is objectively a better name for the category. The main issue is that upon doing this there will be hundreds of runs which call themselves glitchless but are in reality No Major Glitches. Confusion would come at a significant rate as a result of this, and confusion is really the only good reason to change it from Glitchless to No Major Glitches (It being false isn't entirely a reason because it's just a name, whether it represents the category doesn't inherently matter as the run and the rules are the more important part) +fearedfizzle, it's blatant to you but if you think about what a glitch is, an argument can be made and that is the problem

Also I've explained in other comments about how glitches also need to be defined by the community. You can look through them or I'll copy-paste one explanation if you want it

A glitch is something that is unintentional so unless it is a feature it is a glitch these things are glitches that is the simple fact of it. You do not choose what is a glitch or not that is the makers of the game in this instance.

Sounds like what someone who has never been to this website: www.speedrun.com/me#Glitchless and read the rules would say

@@thefierypaladin126 Sounds like someone who missed the joke would say

no, people who don't speedrun are just weirdly vocal and clearly don't understand what the game is actually like to play

The comments seem mostly constructive and the video was well mae but it's like 45% dislikes, :thinking:

Glitchless run full of glitches

cuz gdq are cunts

@@fisheatsyourhead maybe a message board?

Yagi Pro tip: If you want new people in to the speedrunning thing don't insult them before they learn. Also "Mirror's Edge has INTENDED MECHANICS that you cannot use without having a "glitch". Side Jump and Wall Boost are prime examples, they were just designed/coded in a really stupid and exploitable way. If they're using an INTENDED MECHANIC with its INTENDED RESULTS that cause them to go faster, it's not really a glitch." Your examples are 100% GLITCHES THEY ARE what would be referred just because it is clever use of game mechanics does not change the fact that it is a glitch and when you are using it knowingly and going out of your way to do them you are glitching "Basically, glitchless means - if you didn't intend it, we're not using it. If you consciously made it this way, we're using it even though it looks "glitched"." IF that was the CASE YOU WOULD NOT USE GLITCHES. A glitch BY DEFINITION IS NOT INTENDED moving faster by side jumping is not intentional it is a glitch made by how the game was made. This means if your rule right there was ACTUALLY true YOU would NOT use it.

@@havtor007 "Your examples are 100% GLITCHES THEY ARE what would be referred just because it is clever use of game mechanics does not change the fact that it is a glitch and when you are using it knowingly and going out of your way to do them you are glitching" And who decides that? You? There is no solid definition of a "glitch", because to a computer everything you write is "intended". If I program a mechanic in a particularly stupid way, then you can argue just using that mechanic is "a glitch". If the developers allow the player to jump farther IN AN INTENDED WAY and then just "forget" this can be used to cross a gap, is that a glitch? Are you in the developer's head? Any version of "glitchless" will be absolutely subjective, that's why priority is given to making speedruns fun and competitive over "pure". You can never achieve a true "glitchless" speedrun. "IF that was the CASE YOU WOULD NOT USE GLITCHES. A glitch BY DEFINITION IS NOT INTENDED moving faster by side jumping is not intentional it is a glitch made by how the game was made. This means if your rule right there was ACTUALLY true YOU would NOT use it." Moving faster is literally the side-effect of side-jumping. As you have hopefully heard, without this rule the speedrun would be just side-jumping all the time. You'd literally have to ban an INTENDED MECHANIC to rule out all abuse. Same with the Barbed Wire - it just does not do enough damage to kill you. Nobody is manipulating the numbers, it's an INTENDED damage number with an INTENDED hitbox that can be exploited.

Problem is, what if they are on the edge of what is and isn't survivable? How do you determine if the fall would have been fatal? Who is the one judging that? A lot of allowed glitches in this run are simply things that would introduce too much ambiguity and edge cases if banned. Mirror's Edge is a game that has a lot of those edge case style mechanics where it becomes hard to tell hat's broken and what's just used in unintentional ways. Certain bugs happen often enough in regular play that banning them simply becomes more effort than it's worth.

The falls in question are falls from a height that kills you. It's not subjective. It only can be survived because the game was coded to spawn a floor under Faith for one frame after a kick or wall-jump kick or something, so by kicking at a certain point in the fall you basically reset your falling distance. So there's no edge, you die if you fall off that distance. The only question is: is resetting your jump height by spawning a floor under you for one frame by kicking during a fall allowed or not in the category?

@@agustinlado yeah but the wall kick animation spawns the floor regardless of whether you want it to or not. what if someone means to jump off a wall, but left-clicks on accident? does that mean they have to reset the run because they kicked? kicking is an intended game mechanic, the floor spawning beneath you isn't, but it's there regardless.

Not really. It would just beg the question, why not make a glitchless category? To anyone unfamiliar with the glitches in the game, they wouldn't notice the glitches that are allowed, so who cares?

Not a terrible idea actually.

It's more about the ease and regularity of them. On of the techniques is literally jumping sideways and then turning.

Biggie Cheese Everyone in that speedrunning community knows what it means, and agrees with it and likes it. Why do you care about their rules?

Because it´s bullshit? There are glitches used so no matter what they say it´s not glitchless, it´s like if i and everyone around pretended i ´m black, no matter how many people will call me black it will still be a lie for i am white.

If you call a pig's tail a leg, how many legs does a pig have? 4

Aidan Starratt they like it because they can use glitches so they shouldn't call it glitcheless and you shouldn't just "allow it"

+Isaiah Brooks Eveyonestrying to argue that it uses glitches lol, everyone knows that! He knows that! Just ignore the name for a second. This is a category of speedrunning, and these are the rules. What's the problem?

Many of them are very easy to do by accident, so it seemed like a better choice for the community to just allow it rather than ban it, so they don't have to deal with the situations where somebody accidentally performs one of the minor glitches. There is a "true glitchless" category though, but a big part of the runs are about trying to avoid the glitchess, rather than not doing them on purpose.

But it doesnt count in this game. For no glitches go to absolutely no glitches category or something.

The category is named glitchless. Do you understand that "Glitchless" and "no glitches" means the same thing? Is your only argument a semantic one?

William Rutherford but you don't look only to the category name, look the rules for mirro's edge glitchless runs on speedruns.com It's not only him who made the rules.

Yes and no. I think Mirrors edge is very hard to distinguish the difference between a glitch and not in the glitchless run. In other games banning glitches is a little easier to do but in mirrors edge I believe this is very difficult and the category is dumb.

Stop talking about what you don't know. Search on the internet, read the rules and done

wholly_unholy that's not what is happening, its not him breaking any rules, everything he did in the run is within the rules defined by the community that every runner uses, you can go on the website and check for yourself. Please don't comment on stuff you clearly do not understand.

So... if a person accidentally does it, it's okay. But if it's done intentionally, it's not? Do you not understand how stupid you sound suggesting that this is okay? This would mean a person could accidentally kick before landing to get a legit run - realize how useful it is - then have his next run banned for doing the same exact thing.

You and most people just missed the point, this is what happens when someone tries to make a fun scrip for a speedrun, it was well done but, speedrun is so popular now that most of the people who watch it are super ignorant to the scene and don't understand how the rules are made. I don't know much but is very common for the speedrun community to makeup their rules, this is not his rules, is the community rules, you don't like glitchless don't watch it, are you going to ban bunnyhop from every glitchless run on any game running source engine? ofc not. I fell bad for this guy, he made a huge satire with that scrip for the run and people now think HE is the one who decides the rules, this is what happens when speedrun becomes mainstream. Sad day indeed.

Kenny yeah... But it shouldn't be called glitch less... If it's not glitch less... Why not call it less glitches...

Don't have a clue, like he said the community was split in changing the name, i guess is not so easy to make everyone agree on a new name.

it's apparently not hard to decide that whether you break the rules or not you get the world record. he's just not good enough for a real run for the game

Kenny we all already know it's a shit game, but just because this guy isn't good enough to do all the skips, he made his own bullshit catagory so he could have the world record for something HE decides "isn't glitchy looking" how do you not see the problem with his "rules" in general that HE BREAKS

I also wanted to express that Glitchless means a casual (fast play) of a game. You don't use any glitches or break any mechanics. You're in the wrong here, dude.

Glitchless is the name of the cathegory. You could name it a mashed potatoes cathegory, it still went by the rules of the cathegory, therefore is a legit run. Also the trigger extends below the ceiling, apparently.

Lord Krythic Their community all collectively decided and agree with all these rules. They even admit the name doesn't really represent the actual run. But why do you care? Ignore the name, and just read the rules. That is what the run is.

Intended% is a meme in the majora's mask community, it's not the same as glitchless

Where OOB? Also, the trigger extends under the ceiling

Even though he DEFINITELY overused the meme I still enjoyed the run (As someone fully expecting the meme to at least be used)

Evocus I disagree, I thought he was hilarious. It was a great run even if the dude could only make one joke

I take it you watched the "couch dude compilation". I was like you. But when I watched it there really wasn't anything to be triggered about. I quite enjoyed the run and it was very obvious to me that he was just memeing.

When you realize that they run the same game and probably know each other, it was likely just a joke that most people didnt find funny

I agree that they seem to know each other and it's friendly banter, but he was definitely kicking a dead horse 5 minutes into using the joke. His buddy may not have minded but the audience sure did

Blackbeltginganinja its not glitchless as in without any glitches it is glitch"less" as in less glitches :)

u r an ass

GDQ should ban you

Phantom Knight that's not really constructive criticism but thanks for watching the video and being aware of the discussion we're having

Blackbeltginganinja I feel like you should've called it a no major glitch run instead like that wall kick to save from all damage to I feel seems like it was a major glitch cause your getting to an area you weren't supposed to get to at that time in the way you did

While I agree the name should just flat out be changed, I don't think he chose the rules just to suit himself. At that point why not just exclude one little glitch and call yourself the king of the category. The fact that there are more stipulations makes it a more distinct and more real category instead of just a title-grab.

Adam Nope Alright sure if this category is truly something people have agreed on that makes sense but it doesn't change the fact that some glitches are allowed. I understand that this game is glitchy and it's not worth throwing a run away from something that's beyond your control. But then why are some animation skips allowed but others not? Why can you spam jump off a wall to gain extra speed while not being able to spam jump to double jump? Why can you use the same wall kick exploit to survive a fall too great but not double jump? The rules don't make sense if you want to call it glitchless because it's not glitchless, it's pick and choose whatever glitches you want but not the ones that are too difficult. Which makes no sense because speed running is and was never easy.

It doesn't matter what the community picks as allowed glitches. What matters is how fast you can do whatever you all agreed upon. This category has 50+ registered players on speedrun.com. That's more than a lot of other games. Saying he created the category just to get the world record is not only ignorant, but blatantly slanderous.

Agreed, I was uninformed and made assumptions. Removed the slanderous remark.

Depends how you define "interesting." To me interesting is no glitches and/or exploits but using natural shortcuts built in the map. He talked about not looking silly but then started allowing exploits that look silly. They should be another category - so instead of having a "no glitch" run full of exploits, call it a run using exploits

A minor exploit vs major exploit is kind of a key factor, a minor exploit would be like Link rolling to go faster, or side dashing to get up to speed faster. They're intended mechanics that make the game slightly awkward since, rolling everywhere is unrealistic as well as starting off the line sideways. Major exploits are usually what gets into glitch territory. It's where multiple intended mechanics are used together in an unintended way. Such as in Skyrim a minor exploit would be the alchemy/enchantment loop, it becomes a major exploit when you add the fortify restoration potion in the mix boosting the loop to absurd proportions quickly. This is where Speedrunning has a bit of self regulation, no speed runner would use the alchemy/enchantment loop without the restoration buff, since it would take far too long. Major exploits become glitches very quickly. In a source game, forward b-hopping is fine but the moment you start using wall sliding and backwards b-hops it's a combination of two mechanics creating a "glitched" result, it becomes a major exploit and is against the rules. The other thing that gets me with "glitchless" rulesets is the "what if it happens on accident" argument, which is stupid since, well it's kind of obvious when things are intentional... since the runner will do it every run and the glitch will benefit them. If you accidentally glitch through the floor in any speed run and fall to your death, it's a bad run anyway. So why would having a glitch you didn't intend to happen be any different. The argument about glitches accidentally happening is being made so they can use the glitches. People would like to see glitchless runs, but they don't exist because runners are, inherently, incapable of following the rules without bending them as much as possible.

most speed game communities makeup rules that don't make 100% sense at first glance, but they decide what they do for good reasons.

Are rules arbitrary if their set by the most knowledgeable community possible in the entire world? Who knows more about Mirror's Edge speedrunning than the guys who run it? Not the creators, or the glitches woulda been patched out. Maybe find out what 'arbitrary' means.

Lagoon these are the rules for mirrors edge speed runs. If you've ever speedrun a game with a community, this happens a lot.

Yes. So what?

There are NO rules to speedrunning and it is ALWAYS up to the community to define the categories and what is allowed and what not. If someone doesn't agree he/she can start a discussion inside the community.

That's the real argument, and the one he should have been making in the video. Design oversights are not automatically glitches.

about 99 ninjas Did you even watch the video? He's not trying to say they aren't glitches!

_any abuse of a mechanic that creates any unintended advantage_ is called *exploit* , a *glitch* is a _exploitable bug_ . Your welcome

No, I'm pretty sure it's fine :>

a glitch is not necessarily an exploitable bug, just a bug.

deciding whether the glitch was intentional or not is the problem, if the glitch is very easy to accidentally do then it is a hard thing to ban as people would have to reset their whole run over a small easy to do accident, and if it was done on a case by case basis then who would decide if it was intentional or not?

Who determines what is and isn't intended? What about unintended things that happen regularily and unintentionally in regular play such as clipping through guards? There is a chase scene in the game where you can actually outpace the guy you're not meant to be able to catch. You get into so many edge cases and subjective judgement calls that it's just not worth it. Hell the whole side jumping thing is a perfect example.

who gives a fuck? like, what's your point? oh boohoo the devs are mad that people used their broken ass game in a broken ass way. well news flash... they aren't - the mirrors edge devs love the speedrunning community my g