Bad luck... but seems the high pivot is really delivering on its chainless feel...

As annoying as it is to have such Problems, im just glad you and Paul Aston bring out videos about real problems with bikes, unlike most magazines/websites

we need more honest "reviews" on mtb bikes/products. No bias. unlike most marketing channels that just put out fluffy spin.

Proper good old school race vid vibes! Nothing better than watching you hurtle through the trees and slop at speeds I can only dream of, keep up the class work man 🤌🤌

New to your content Lewis, but loving it. You're a top man and although you were clearly not happy with the issues during the race, you managed to keep your cool much more than I would have done. Well done on the podium 👍

Appreciate this honest vid. So many people spend hard earned money on these expensive bikes these days and it’s a real bummer if they don’t perform. Hopefully you get some answers soon.

Its refreshing to see actual reviews (or not reviews) of these bikes, rather than the "promotional" videos posted elsewhere. Im not a fan of trek bikes anyway, so doesnt really affect my decisions to buy regardless, but this sort of honest reporting is just we actual buyers need. Keep it up, and anyone shouting you down for doing so is just odd!

Congratulations on second! Even with the chain issues. Love the content 🤟 like the honesty with the bike and your open to get it sorted.

Sick riding bro, always enjoy ur vids.. Sorry to hear about the troubles on the new bike.. The first thing I think I would try would be to start shorting the chain 2 links at a time and re test.. get it as tight as possible. Could have something to do with the swapping of the suspension. Rear shock working different then stock maybe.. Hard to say.. Also make sure ur clutch on ur dee is working right as well..sometimes those can have issues. U were ripping in the race man, bike looks like it suits u if u can get the bugs worked out... Good luck..

Insane riding dude even without a chain! Piss poor from Trek, hopefully not a wide spread problem and you get it sorted! 👍

Well done mate, second place, no bad with those problems you have with that bike🥳 yeah you are absolutely right to tell people the truth about all the bikes🤙🏻

Appreciate honest reviews 👍 I hope the manufacturer contacts you to resolve this issue. If my £5k bike was damaged through no fault of my own I would be furious.

It was great to see you racing again but the mechanical issues really suck. I was in the market for a Mullet enduro bike and went with a canyon torque, after seeing this I feel like that was a great decision.

Hi Lewis, I might have some news for your problem. I was the owner of a highpivot bike and mounted several at the shop. The top pulley were always with narrow/wide technology. Trek somehow did not use that for their downhill bike (when you look closely, last season Vergier lost numerous of times his chain) and I took a high definition look on your unboxing, and the teeth are not narrow wide or at least not as big as compared to other brand (Forbidden, Kavenz,...) on the higher pulley. There are some companes selling replacement pulleys (NS Billet for example) but the number of teeth and the fixing has to be the same than what you have on your Trek, which is pretty special. Hope it helps, thanks for the video I learned something, Peace

Super interesting video! I’ve been riding my HB916 since April this year and not dropped a chain yet. Not had any issues with the high pivot/ idler idler setup whatsoever. Would be very interested to see what you think of Hope’s High pivot offering.

Love the brutal honesty- 2nd place and mostly on a no chain, “out of shape” 2nd place is still legit af congrats

Now is when you announce a chainless mtb series for the win. Awesome riding in difficult conditions too. Love your vids.

Lewis, fantastic chain less riding! I'm sure someone has said this, but just in case. I am suspicious that your problem is with the setup on the transmission. Since it doesn't have the normal adjustments, the last step of transmission setup requires you to manually set the derailleur cage position. SRAM says changes to the drivetrain, and I'm guessing the shock change, might require you to do this again. When I first installed mine, I encountered dropped chain, and I had to redo the setup, since then it's been flawless. If that is something you want to try, it's pretty straightforward. Best of luck!

You've been having some tough luck with bikes lately mate, I can 100% relate. But props for how well you handled it, I would be pissed

Great content as usual man. Bummer about the chain sitch! Are you still not allowed to race in the UCI enduro?

I had this issue on a traditional low pivot bike and I was noticing that the underside of the chainstay was absolutely SHREDDED from the chain flapping against it when I was in my highest gears hitting rougher stuff. and I noticed that with the bike in it's lowest gear (biggest gear, and therefore least amount of chain slack in the system), there was a HUGE range of motion left in the derailleur cage, so I took out 2 links out of my chain (which still left about an inch of movement in the cage when in the lowest gear, which seems to me to mean they shipped it with the chain far with too many links), tightened the resistance on my derailleur cage until I could JUST start to tell i added tension through my shift lever feel, and it has completely solved my issue. I'm not sure if the high pivot introduce enough new variables to render my solution moot, but It might be worth a try! it looked like you had basically no tension on you derailleur clutch.

Respect brother, u kept trying even though u were struggling.

Awesome pace and great footage. so frustrating having mechanical issues when just out riding, infinately worse when it's a race result affected. Perhaps getting it looked at by a mechanic, see if there's manufacturing fault?

Could be the transmission rear mech… I know they need reset sometime after a knock, it’s just a case of loosing the rear axle and letting the mech fall back into place. I’m not 100% sure it is, but it’s worth a check.

Hey bud, as some one below suggested, my first thought would be to take off 1-2 links, could also adjust the B screw a bit for extra tension. Other then that i can only think of some missalignment. Try som STFU chain guids on the seatstay maybe. But my bet would be with to much chain slack. Sit on her and feel how much slack you get at sag, my bet is to much😅 Hope you can figuer it out ✌️🙏🏻

You did so well to come 2nd having no chain for some of the race , appreciate your honesty with all your new bikes ,I think seeing this is enough to put me off high pivot idler wheel bikes couldn't be doing with chain dropping that much, great content and riding as usual

I've had 3 high pivot bikes going back to 2010. 2 canfield jedi (26" followed by 27.5") and now a norco range. The canfield bikes worked very well minus a few minor naggles not worth mentioning. The range has been a nightmare. I do feel a big difference but it brings both pros and cons. The norco in a size medium has you too forward in the bike imo, chainstay is too long. The balance makes some maneuvering more difficult (like jumps, jibs, popping over obstacles). With the range... I've had (and seen on forums I'm not alone): -Eats an idler every 250-500 miles, can't get new ones for 6mo+ during covid, bike was down 9 months at one point. They are cheap when you can get them, but supply is extremely limited to this day. -convoluted cable routing makes a cable dropper frustrating to adjust saddle height and the spring tension on the rear mech has difficulty overcoming the cable tension - axs solved this problem after 700 miles of adjusting/replacing cables. -tons of cable rattle unless you line the cables that remain with foam wrap -bad geo imo -poorly manufactured/designed - cable grommets are loose, cut outs for cables was wrong in the frame, pinching the cables, frame protection doesn't work (chain slap hits the carbon - wearing it out) -did not like the factory shock/tune at all. ttx22m worked better out of the box (by a landslide) -Norco support has been CRAP. I'm probably forgetting a few things, but it's been a very frustrating ownership experience.

Check the clutch on the rear derailleur. I was throwing the chain on rides and found out my clutch was sticking and the spring needed to be tightened and the b-screw adjusted. It is not high-pivot multi pulley system. Lots of moving parts there. Good luck. I'm sure you will figure it out.

All that drama for a difference you can't even notice.🤣 It might be the answer in DH but its hard to see the benefit anywhere else. Keep up the good work Lewis.👍

Great riding! Shame about the chain on your bike! Any progress on the issue at all since the race day? Even getting in touch with Trek or looking at Forums etc?

Sick video! I was curious what your action cam setup is? Thanks!

Hey Lewis, My Forbidden Dreadnought has had some interesting issues as well… it’s because B tension and Chainguide tension are independent are hard to setup and leaves room for the chain to come off. I have to reduce chain length.

Dude, I appreciate your take that a bike should work when you buy it. It's a reasonable expectation. These bikes are a damn fortune to buy, they should work out of the box. I'd love to see this content continue. It's great to see real feedback about these frames. I hope you continue to get the resources to do this kind of work.

Check for a stiff link in chain and a burred high idler or bent tooth? I'm having the same problem with my Commencial supreme DH bike. It was initially fine for the first 3 outings, but the last time I was out, the chain came off the high idler every time right out of the start hut at Fort William, on the straight before the first right hand corner. That section is smooth! I tried a new rear mech on the day as the B-adjustment had oddly sheared the previous ride. I couldn't spot anything obviously wrong. The new rear mech didn't fix it. So I gave up on the day. Since then, I've had a really good inspection. I found the chain had a stiff link. Now, I'm not sure if that's a result of the chain becoming jammed 3 times, it's highly likely. I've replaced the chain and removed a bur on two teeth on the high idler, as a result of the chain jamming. Other than that, everything looks like new. I won't know if this has fixed it until I get back out. My next option is to shim out the gaps around the high idler. Good luck with your issue. Let us know how it goes. Ps great result considering your issues!

I am year 2 on a Deviate Highlander, live in Ontario, and ride a lot in Quebec and Ontario. I went for the high pivot because of the rock slabs and rocky tech where we ride, Unlike My Mondraker and Whyte not High Pivot it has never dropped the chain. That Slash just doesn't look right but what do I know. Looking at Canyon for my wife so keen to see how you go on that. Great content, just found you while looking for something on Scotland.

Did you see the astonmtb & Frameworks opinions on the idler? I'm pretty sure they said the treks location gives better antisquat on paper but you can't notice it, the disadvantage is the chain between the idler and chainring is not under any tension and intact it grows in length

I was really looking forward to this video, having a ‘21 slash myself, but damn that’s sh1tt7 luck/design/bad installation… Does that top idler have any float to accommodate the different chain angles? The top guide looks like it could be improved ( shouldn’t need it but new stuff needs tweaking sometimes) to funnel the chain on ( nerd with a 3d printer could make one ) Bottom idler- again does it float? When I saw how close the idler was to derailleur I wondered if it would cause problems. Bigger guides would help keep it on, but the first and easiest place to look is the derailleur tension, and shorter chain… Best of luck getting it sorted mate

Great vid mate, hope you get it sorted ,just dont expect that from trek with all the testing they must do. after my 2022 slash was stolen i went to look at this new model ,high pivot just looked like a whole lot of faff and maintenance i didnt need as an avereage rider and after the last one being so awesome couldnt see how they could improve it by much. Decided to get the old model again. Looks like i made the right decision and saved a load of cash with the discounts ,now they're old stock 😁

Interesting. Definitely would like to hear more updates on this in the future...

Good Job and managed the race with this problem. I‘m interesting what was the Problem! Can you say we good the bike pedals uphill in comparison to another enduro bike from you? Thanks for your honest experience. ✌🏼

It just needs a much better chain guide there on the top pulley, that's the beginning and end of the solution. Mucking about with chain length and mech tension may help but it isn't going to reliably fix an issue on the other side of the chain. It's conceivable that the fact that the lower idler stops chain growth under compression is robbing the bike of tension in the chain as the suspension compresses which could be making it worse. You could test that by routing the chain so it doesn't run on the lower pulley (probably need to change the chain length) and see what happens.

One other thing Lewis, spoke to our store mechanic and he said that norco had a similar issue due to using a too soft aluminium for the idler pulley. They firmed it up with a tougher alloy and it fixed it apparently.

Unbelievable riding considering your issues Lewis. You'd expect better from Trek, hope you get sorted pal.

Amazing riding. I had my Slash 8 gen 6 since launch. I don't race, but I´ve had 4 days in different bike parks. Riding everything from blue to blacks. Conditions have been far from smooth due to heavy rain this autumn. I've had zero chain drops (Shimano XT on the Slash 8) Could it possibly be a SRAM issue?

I had the exact same problem with my high pivot Norco Shore. It would constantly come off the pulley and get jammed inside by the frame. Ended up buying a different idler pulley that comes on a Forbidden Dreadnaught and it seemed to work better, although it still sometimes slips off. The newer pulley featured the "big tooth small tooth" which I assume made the difference between the OEM Norco one which had standard teeth.

I get my stuff cheap from factories, on the frame where brakes need to mount, out of the mold, they need to be tooled flat so the brake mounts are true, some times I need to use a washer to get the brake mount into the position so the shoes don't rub, for your chain guide this may be the same situation, You may need to use a washer to bring the guide off the frame 1mm or so, so it won't drop as easily. Nice effort on getting that 2nd Place!

Félicitation pour le podium dans ces conditions, je pense que le soucis vient du t-type et bon de la poulie de renvois car en XT le velo est dingue toit comme en EWS où le velo fzit des podium également.

Having a high pivot Deviate i have never dropped or jammed a chain, it's been flawless but it does have a big solid housing/guide for the idler, i rekon it's either the small idler guide not really being up to it or a setup issue, maybe even the transmission drivetrain.

Nice race! Definitly want to know the outcome of how this gets fixed. espicially since im picking one of these up

Great video and riding as always. It seems like either the chain is to long so it's loose and coming off (which if it is true it is so dumb cuz the chain is the one you got with the bike) or maybe derailleur has some kind of problems with clutch and tension is just to low and this happens. I don't think it's problem with the frame cuz I haven't seen any complains bout it but maybe I'm wrong. Keep up the great work and riding!

Insane riding bro! Could it have been a problem with the derailleur not tensioning the chain enough, or maybe too many links in the chain? Just thinking of other explanations. Good job on 2nd place despite your struggle!

Was constantly happening with testing here aswell chain off lower idler through every little jump n knock interesting seeing yours coming off the top chain wheel ours was the bottom all the time My mates away to try the shimano zee derailleur from his DH on it see if makes the chain tension tighter as that is a tight shifter it might work

On the day your only solution was to leave it in 2nd/3rd for max chain tension. The high pivot gives less top chain growth but more lower growth which makes the derailleur's clutch do twice the work and overheat

My ptrain's idler is a built in aluminium guide, impossible for the chain to come off as everything is super tight. But then that is less than ideal in thick mud so you win some, you lose some

good on you for speaking about bikes failing matey 👍👍👍👍

Would be interesting to see you test something on the other end of the spectrum and compare. Something super simple, single pivot like a starling twist or murmer.

PR dudes: "He got 2nd place even without a chain, this is how good these bikes are!"

Good that Trek got in touch, hope this gets sorted man. I guarantee you are not the only one suffering these issues. Otherwise, congratulations on 2nd spot, bike is clearly capable, with these issues fixed it could be ground breaking.

Well done on the race! It could be the rear mech. Try to loosen the rear axel and then pull back on the mech and tighten the mech from the drive side, think it's an 8mm hex. Hope it helps.

Lewis, is there any adjustment in the pulleys? wondering if anything has come loose like it can with first rides on new bikes? Personally I've got no interest in the bike but a lot of interest in the Canyon. Mint result regardless!

Apart from that how does the bike feel? Especially compared to norco range? Does the high pivot work its magic?

very interesting, me and 2 of my mates all got the 9.8 t-type and we all think that there is a chance they have come with a few too many links in the chain. Haven't had any problems with mine expect one witch was rider error were it came off only the bottom pully. My mates haven't had any problems at all to my knowledge. Saying that we haven't done any racing on them yet just some dh and enduro laps. Very sad to see hope you can get it sorted.

Damnn that’s no good at all! Have found though working at a store that sells trek that some of the bikes come with a chain that is a link or 2 too long? I would say this is probably what’s causing this! Did you put it together or a Trek dealer?

I work on Trek bikes daily, and the quality is definitely lacking. In saying that though, preassembled bikes still require a good going over before riding. As an aside, swapping out the cheap Bontrager pulley guide with one from Mrp will greatly reduce chain dropping

I have a Cannondale Jekyll and I’ve never experienced the chain dropping off, in fact excluding drivetrain wear and tear I’ve never had drivetrain issues. Just you can’t run t-type axis but I run Shimano so it’s never bothered me.

I would maybe suggest the chain isn’t getting enough tension from the clutch in the mech which lead to the chain coming off over bumps and harsh impacts because the mech isn’t providing the tension the chain needs if that makes sense. I believe with the new sram mechs you can change the tension of the clutch to make it stronger or weaker,

Check chain length, B limit on rear mech (think the gx ones come with a little tool to set it perfect) and chainline

On the lower guide pulley the SRAM T type chain must not interface well because it was designed only to interface with the components on the inside of the chain (the side of the chain with the bumps). I think the only solution would be to get a new drivetrain. But I'm no bike mechanic.

The Norco Shore models have had similar idler chain retention issues (I own one). Definitely early adoption woes, but when it works, it’s rad

Great video and congrats on 2nd place. Be interesting to see how it works with different drive trains e.g shimano mechanical. When you could pedal how did you find the shifting with the GX transmission? I’ve only ever ridden shimano mechanical so wanted to see if it’s worth switching.

Have you set up the T-Type correctly? It might need more tension. In my bike shop, we experimented with that and it actually makes a huge difference. (By loosening the main bolt in the derailleur and pulling it back. )

Other bike manufacturers can make high pivot systems work like Forbidden and Deviate. I don't recall issues when you had the Forbidden Druid? It seems that Trek's design is either not up to the job or that one of the components is not working as it should like the clutch or maybe you were just unlucky with the first chain drop then that occurrence maybe bent a plate or a pin in one of the links which meant it kept happening. Incredible pace all considering. Are you tempted to get back into more racing if bike tech issues can be put behind you?

The problem with that kind of setup is there's nothing tensioning the chain between the upper cassette and the forward chain rings when there's no pedalling putting the chain under load, so there are more chances for the chain to jump off the upper rings with small teeth.

Seems like you need a perfect working chain for high pivot to work. That frame damage is a bummer.

I loved bike looking at it high pivot sessions are awesome rode a few but this was my worries more problems i also like new drive train but wondered about clutch being loose guess it is

Do the lower guide wheel and the idler feature a narrow/wide tooth profile similar to the chainwheel? If not I could see that being the problem. There doesn´t seem to be that much chain tension on them in the first place so I guess the clutch alone can´t keep the chain on reliably. Maybe everything being caked in mud added to the problem? And at least on camera the trails didn´t even look that gnarly. Not too much in terms of big compressions/drops or massive rock gardens. Makes me wonder how Treks product testing looked like? 😬

Did you reset the ‘b’ screw when you changed the shock and is the shock the identical length? Anyway, if you’re really not ordering an Atherton 170 for this, then buy a Coal! Did you get a go in Tommy’s? You must have done a cheeky go 😂 Awesome result: the Aaron of Enduro 🎉

Holy smokes the pace you have with or without chain 😅 Was this ever the case on your druid back in the day?

Not had the slightest issue on my Hope HB916 with idler even on ultra long rough as hell Lake District descents or big compressions to flat. Seems odd that the Trek has this issue 🤔

I haven’t ridden the new flat top AXS, but the first gen stuff the clutch is just so weak, chain rings have to be fresh and so does the chain (not your issue other than the mud). I’d take it off and try Shimano SLX/XT where you can adjust the derailleur clutch and see if that makes a difference first.

Watched a few videos of this bike from the reviews. Chain tension looks diabolical on the slightest uneven terrain. Guessing sram and shimano havent battle tested their kit with a chain with as many links as the slash.

Same problem with the forbidden dreadnoughts. Had a friends drip a chain in 5 races out of 6. He sold it and got a nukeproof. No point having a race bike you dont feel confident to race on.

It just shows how fast you are to get second chainless 💪, Stick with the Propain maybe ...that was a sweet bike.

Happening the same to them all mate! Pink bike UK done a review on it same issues! Like i said about my mate he's way try his Zee derailleur from his DH on it with the short hanger as it comes in 3 lengths it's just slapping about that chain on them its definitely put me off one

So what do You think, its frame design problem or the drivetrain? because somehow i think that is more drivetrain problem,because axs is not that stiff like cable derailleurs,and the chain design for this drivetrain is quite interesting...

Had a similar issue with the forbidden dreadnought. Lower idler pulley bent and went into the wheel, causing the chain to eat it. I since removed the lower pulley and haven't had an issue since. I do expect the chainring to wear faster with less wrap

I honestly don't see the hype behind high pivot bikes. I just might not be fast enough to tell the difference. I rode a high pivot DH bike up at whistler back in August and while it felt good, I couldn't really tell if the high pivot was really doing anything special. My current bike is a standard ol Horst Link (RM Altitude) and honestly the only difference I notice was the high pivot hung up less on roots, but that could've been down to it being a 200mm travel DH bike vs a 160 travel enduro bike, the horst link on my bike is still smooth as butter and holds traction extremely well as you'd expect for horst.

Incredible....i Hope Trek will be give motivation on this problem😮

Congrats on the podium finish. Sucks you had all the issues. Never ridden a high pivot, currently rocking a Specialized Enduro.

Man that's horrible..been on a gen 5 for 2:years now ..no problems at all.. should try the old model it slays

That sucks. B tension setting needs to be on point when you're in that smallest cog, or the derailleur won't hold enough tension in 12th gear.

Have a look on Richie Ride dh bike, especially on the chain "tunnel" between the crank and the idler... 😉

Wondering if it might be something with the new SRAM Transmission chain, like is it TOO specific and has issues with the top idler? Anyways, just a thought, love seeing the footage. Always mind blowing seeing someone ride 5000% faster than I could 😅

Great riding and result.

Cool drive 👍 ich habe das gleiche Problem mit meinem Jekyll, nimm eine dickere Kette 10ner oder 8er und kauf das Plastik Teil neu... 🐸

Trek is working on adding a 3rd idler wheel now....

I had the same problem I believe it's the derailleur if it's not set properly on these new ones the chain goes slack in smallest gear and it needs to be set up properly to specify and just taking the rear wheel off stuffs things up aswell

Go back to Forbidden mtb Lewis! I remember u on druid goin fast as a rocket💯✊🏻🔥 the high pivot was solid on it

Only had one high pivot bike. The only difference was how annoying it was to have to use two chains 💀

You're a better man than me. By that third chain jump I would have been swearing a blue streak.