You are welcome. It took me a long time to write the captions (and understand what they were saying), but I think it was worth it.

@@felipec Another watcher here thanking you for your efforts! Much appreciated!!!

@@felipec Definitely yes, thanks bro!

Only if it were someone capable to take the audio and make some open source magic on it to make it better ...

@@testingstuff6111 Unfortunately reverb removal is a blind spot in the libre audio space - the best you can do is try multiband gating or spectral denoising, but with such drastic changes in input levels between speakers I don't think it'd do any good.

I absolutely agree. I have users of my software at work that have become very specialized in how they use it. Even in places where I think the user interface could be done better, I leave it as-is. Once users have gotten accustomed to how the GUI works, they will revolt if it's changed; even if that change is ultimately for the better.

@@anthonyobryan3485 My buddy figured out that you just make the changes anyway and when the users revolt, you change most of it back, and you'll get points for doing that. Meanwhile, the stuff you didn't change back is still in the software.

you kinda need both.. only thinking about the users will make you end up with unmaintainable code.

Makes me fear what'll happen to all of Linux if Linus were to pass away... Let's hope that won't happen for a very long time

"but never stop to think about the users." Did you start thinking before writing this sentence? ;)

tbf it provoked an interesting response from the panel. He was an effective villain

Oh yes, I would kick him out right away. Such humble arrogance and lack of finesse.

@@samuellourenco9526 you act like this is a new thing with software engineers. it's why it didn't provoke that sort of response - everyone in that room has worked with Poettering's type before.

It's not rocket science. It takes more work, but the users of the software are worth it.

on the other hand i think it's valuable for a project of this size, to have people who question the status quo. if things make sense, they will be explained thoroughly and inspire also others to think about the questioned aspects.

I bet you a hundred trillion dollars he can

and then moved to microsoft!

@@telotawa such a hypocrite!!!

Look it just took 12 years or so to kill Python 2. And some of the stuff they killed needed to die. But, yeah, anybody whose written 2/3 compat code can tell you that really EOL was very helpful and thank goodness it finally had enough stuff to push it along.

and then you have m1 and nvidia driver changes that break everything but people are willing to jump through near inifinite hoops to get running because of the production upside.

@@davidolsen1222 I worked 4 months converting python2 project to python3 project. It was possibly the hardest work I've done as legacy project had 100k+ lines of code. We had a huge regression which helped in identifying and fixing the issue but it was hard.

(one of the many many reasons why I ended up coming back to Windows...) Still to this day, there still isn't one system-wide audio equalizer app for Linux, there was one but it used Python2 extensions to function and the repo was not maintained, the code was not updated to accomodate newer dependencies... one of the many examples of the linux daily nightmare

​@@diegofrancisco425Pulse effects and easy effects exist. Do those not do equalization?

He is german as far as i know...

He is a massive twat and systemd should have been handed over to a sane person without god complex and actual users in his list of priorities.

​@@Schcarraffonefinnish

@@leonbishop7404 He's meant Poettering

@@ToveriJuri yeah you're probably right here

All of them hot garbage and top of the list of things that broke and required me to fiddle with them for no good reason.

Iirc ConsoleKit and some of the HAL/DBus also go to his trashpile. His legacy is in the 30s of projects.

@@paulie-g Poettering moved to Microsoft!🤣

@@ktwomountain I thought he was working for them a long time ago since Windows 11 looks like an old Linux from 2009 with Aqua desktop Theme...

Oh yes. It is complicated, but absolutely necessary.

Dogfooding. I'm not a developer, I'm a sysadmin. When I worked in a computing science department at a large university, supporting the undergrad labs, I ran the same thing on my desktop that we deployed to the labs. If you make something, you have to be willing to use it yourself. Reminds me of way back in the day when Microsoft used some kind of *nix for their ftp servers. They didn't trust Windows NT Server for the job.

Ultimately that's all you can do: try your best not to break user experience, which is the exact *opposite* of what Lennart and his gang does.

Lennart went to the dark side and works for Microsoft now. 🥵

@@mrkitty777 It might be hell for him then, as Microsoft always was far better at maintaining compatibility with old binaries than any other OS (I've run my own Win32 binaries on Windows versions that came 20 years later from when I compiled the original ".exe"s), Edit: I meant "maintaining", not mainlining. Auto-correct failed me again 😀

@@foobar-9k Microsoft did introduce incompatible bugs for competition though, a lot even. Tiny sneeky bugs, like libre office going kaput on office 365.

@@mrkitty777 To be fair not even MS Word can correctly handle O365 documents and vice versa. This whole thing is just broken, you can't even be sure you'll get the same result on the exact same hardware & software version.

Could you elaborate?

@@alexxx4434 in short, poettering doesn’t care as much about backwards compatibility and the „linux way of doing things“

The Universe is not beautiful enough for me to dare to believe that was said with intent of being humoring. 😂🥇

Ok dinobotpwnz, I am writing this from google chrome running on Windows 10

I was thinking the same thing

He would never have been so silent ... or without a black turtleneck

I use linux as a bootloader on a nas device. This was a very old kernel, and I always loaded the new kernel from an MD device on disk using kexec, and then rebooted that new kernel. The old kernel barely fit on the flash, but contained the drivers for the sata. After an upgrade I was greeted with a systemd message that I should upgrade my kernel first before booting the system. I am no longer able to load the new kernel from disk, because userspace is blocking access to disk. I honestly don't know how init got replaced by systemd. And there are so many places where I can't just upgrade a kernel because I have honestly no idea if it will boot after that.

@@bloepje for your usecase systemd is not for preboot userspace. You need a minimal and static (not upgraded unless security issue or such) init that accesses the MD device and kexec. Much like libreboot.

@jshowa o linux almost religiously avoid abi stability. For example you need to compile kmods when you upgrade the kernel. This to some extent forces modules to be partially open source.

@jshowa o OK. Now convince Adobe to make Photoshop open source.

​@@talkysassis First convince me why they would need to be kernel modules. On the syscall ABI, IIRC Linux is stable (while windows is not)

It’s Lennart Poettering lmao

Interestingly, I sometimes also play ut2004. When the hard drive it was originally install on died, I copied it from a backup (copied as-is) to the new hard drive. That was back in 2007, and it's still on that same hard drive which is still in my primary computer which has gone through many hardware and operating system upgrades since then. The most work I have to do to play ut2004 is to click on the desktop icon. It works perfectly.

ECE came with a native linux build right?

People have been hoping for the “year of Linux on the desktop” for at least the 25 or so years I have been using it…

It’s 2024 now. Sorry to say, it wasn’t 2023. I think whatever year it is, the change towards that will be gradual and very slow.

Brushing up on your -- Continuous Delivery -- skills, huh? 😄

@@pelic9608 His comment was rejected by QC and now it's own it's way to git revert hell.

he is not a mole. $$$ talks

@@baumstamp5989 To some people. I remember Eric S. Raymond turning down Microsoft in fairly spectacular fashion

He will be doing Linux work at one of the largest Linux operators. We need to stop being hypocritical here. Every dollar that wents into Linux as an ecosystem, that widens its audience is a dollar for good.

@@McZsh Very good point (my comment was a joke.)

@@McZsh It's not as simple as _how much_ you're getting paid, it's about _who or what_ is paying you, and Microsoft is hardly friendly to FOSS, I'm afraid. It's actually infamous for its at times shady software, and slimy business tactics. There are many examples, but take a look at EEE: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

I have no fucking clue what I just read, but I hope to understand it one day

@@BusinessWolf1 the video lecture "the tragedy of systemd" IIRC might explain the controversy to you. For me detail cannot be helped, specifics are required to explain just one example how Pottering wouldn't cooperate so gained a very bad reputation with knowledgeable sysadmins not just net hate.

Wow. That sounds absolutely insane. As someone from the BSD world; I'm used to having /usr/home, /usr/jail, /usr/local, /usr/share, /var and more on separate volumes. The beauty of UNIX is that not only should you be able to have them on separate volumes, but on separate hosts.

@@antdah exactly .. and that's why OpenSuSE made it a requirement and Kay Sievers helped. Poettering seems to be one of those narrow minded developers who thinks he knows best about everything and digs his heels in.

To note, systemd has an issue with Michochip USB devices, when the default Microchip udev rules are used. The devices simply hang some time without being recognized. That happens if you install MPLAB, or at least some version of it. Basically, udev should not hand when it doesn't find a program that it has to run for that device upon enumeration. It should pass execution on another thread and continue on its merry way.

Ah yes cummunity

The FREE SOFTWARE community

Lennart Poetering now works for Microsoft. He is excommunicated. Maybe he will systemd Windows 🙃

@@mrkitty777 or he will microsoft the non free distros

@@nonenothingnull Microsoft owns a lot of Ubuntu already so Ubuntu is lost.

Just guide people towards devuan for a systemd free fork of debian.

But don't you know, if you moved away from Upstart, you could get compatibility with GNOME! Remember that horseshit?

@@HrHaakon who in their right mind would want to use a window manager that states they want to hide/disable configuration settings from their users? I think it was gnome 2 that had that in their docs. I haven't used a gnome distro/window mamager in ages. About 10 years. Kde and xfce are generally better options.

its a weirdly german trait to be like that

Binary logs forced? Whose propaganda have you been reading? So many constant misleading tropes get brought up over and over on these topics, usually originating from people who have no idea what they're talking about in the first place.

and both anakin and Pottering were wrong.

please some distro gets us back to the original untainted 2015/2016 linux experience... how it felt being an Owner of a system

I think Linus said "oops" at that moment :D

A perfect addition to M$. I don't like the way his brain works.

you're asking for humans to have common sense, and apparently that does not exist anymore

as insufferable some of these old dinosaur older generation can be (and trust me, I hate most people from that 50/60's generation and what they became after they became rich) I think I hate even more this new soy pedantic generation that pushes conflict and having the last word in an argument over logic and reason.... we are doomed

Most likely a massive case of psychological projection.

I suspect not. Poettering is still lead, and even if he got run over by a bus no one of sound mind is going to work on that sh-tswamp of a project.

The main problem with their approach is that they don't even try to integrate the legacy code on the new system (and that's why Windows is so bad on performance, it can't use new tech on most of it's base process). They could make very little changes to the old libs to make them static as a last patch to keep thing working well.

This is not actually true. "Everything" does not "just work" and does not "continue to work". Your set of anecdotes is not data. In particular, nothing that touches the GPU is safe. Linux has issues in this regard, but it's not the kernel's fault - most of the breakage is in glibc and other shared libraries. If the original build didn't supply its own versions like Windows software does, there is no reason to expect equivalent results.

on the other hand one could state that microsoft undoubtfully has many excellent programmers , maybe even the better ones in the industry, yet if they were put to task to actually come up with new and innovative better systems and safer integrations, and actually test their releases instead of relying on metrics and dumps from their users after the fact , while at the same time keep small dev teams to support past OS releases on a part time basis (like a win nt4 and a win2000 team wich would cover prolly 90% of old outdated software that is mission critical out there ) they could have had rocksolid os with much better public response to them

@@DonAlcohol That's what IBM does with Z/OS. This is the reason Z/OS is the best to use on really critical systems like Banks.

@@DonAlcohol No. No one decent goes to Microsoft except at the top end. Their top end marquee hiring is what produces the impression they are on the whole 'above average'. It's a PR effect, not a real world one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with crash dumps or traces. This is, in fact, standard in all products sold with enterprise support. All the commercial Unices recent enough had that. An enterprise which is having repeated crashes or had a high-value interruption wants to be able to send the info needed to debug and have the issue diagnosed and fixed/explained. This is nothing to do with whether releases are tested or not. Most crashes are driver-related and you can't QA all the combinations. Microsoft does indeed QA drivers under its driver certification scheme, but most consumer end-users happily install unsigned ones.

Seems like he is having fun by pointing out minuscule mistakes of other people, even calling them hypocrites. He's like that co-worker who wants to appear good by pointing out flaws of others. "Look how smart I am, I notice things!".

Many distros don't use systemd. On distrowatch, there's a search option of "not systemd" for your preferred init system - that's how badly many people want to avoid it. Void, Devuan, MX, antiX, etc. Some of those distros' primary purpose is to run Debian or Arch or whatever without systemd.

That shit was taking my network down like clockwork once every 24 hours. In the bug report the devs try to claim it isn't Avahi doing it, but that is the very last message in the syslog before the network stops working and disabling the service made the problem go away. I don't believe they ever were able to figure out the problem.

@@zvxcvxcz made by soy programmer

Didn't he said that in a world where these things are moving fast, sticking to old versions is anachronistic? He didn't mentioned that he specifically hates that.

Macos might look fine at first, but you will find that Apple will regularly break old apis and expect devs to recompile and release new app versions. And it's not open source where you can see what's going on.

not sure how this delusional narcissist ever got to have such foothold

Systemd is a very good reason to make things a little different.

He's a legend alright... a legendary prick.

I actually like systemd, but find his public approach to this as incredibly obnoxious. He's not just talking to Linus either, but Alan Cox, and some other absolute graybeards.

he's always been a POS

I can run software and games 20 years old on Windows, OS updates don't break my apps either, hardware also works predictably. Linux as a Desktop OS is unpredictable, unstable and a complete mess.

@@manticore4952 I haven't had any problems with Linux in that respect. I have more problems with windows update refusing due to an error. That said I do use windows most, convenience I suppose.

@@manticore4952 Barely 20 years old... I would know as I have late 90s games that don't run whatsoever on modern windows. LMAO. Sorry, I have no stability issues on Linux, nor predictability, etc... Only time I did was when I briefly ran some bleeding edge Arch, because no shit, bleeding edge software does that. AoE II, original disk version actually works well on Linux these days... does not run so hot on modern Windows, you need to go get the updated definitive edition for that to work in Windows well.

@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 Windows update manager is hell... keeps installing a bad stripped down super basic graphics driver that only does like 640x480 so I keep having to manually reinstall the proper good working one that does 1080p no problem and it takes a bit of a hacky work around to get it to take the install. Windows has shit support for old hardware. On top of that, for several months it kept trying to install an update that would fail halfway through and totally freeze the system, and then on reboot it would try to do it again after about 1-5 minutes. And because Windows update stopped allowing you to blacklist an update ages ago... and only lets you put it off about a month... was hell.

Ahh, yes. Updated. Thanks.

Crowdsourced lip reading :D

More specifically for `2.6.40` -> `3.0` The 2.x.y version scheme was in use for 15 years so probably alot of bad code depended on this I guess

It's common in the Unix world to provide stable interfaces - as they are standardized or at least there are standardized examples from the various standards like POSIX or SuS. Desktop applications are rarely going to run into troubles but more complex software can have optimizations that touch specifics. Of course there will be an adjusted newer version at some point but for dependent OSS projects it will raise their "maintenance cost" from debugging. For commercial SW/system builders it can have much worse results as it will make timely updates even harder since it suddenly requires two updates in the same spot. I.e. a kernel update forces you to switch to a newer application version, causing uncertainty if it'll work well with the systems you'll update the next day (chicken and egg, one group needs to be last), increases the down time for the update (15+15 is two quick things with a single step to undo, 30 plus likely no/ uncertain steps back is a major outage). Think about air traffic control etc. You can have 4-way redundant systems and redundant control centers but oh does it suck if you need to upgrade the application at the same time as the kernel/os and maybe you need to plan a double reboot because your NIC driver breaks due to changes with how a few blob gets loaded. Testing/controling edge cases from introduction of things like systemd-resolved costs dozens or hundreds of hours that are basically just lost to economy. So that's, while Linus does not deeply care about reliability or security or scalability, it's a really good thing that he does care about not breaking userspace Interfaces. Hope this gave you some useful examples :-)

No, they are saying that even if it isn't their fault it broke, it is their responsibility to maintain compatibility with bad software that breaks for dumb reasons.

fuck I hate him sooo much

It definitely was ‘schooling’. Lennart do not follow this principle and it shows. So it definitely was a new thing to learn for this abomination of a developer in the Linux world.

@@EvzenEmanuel So abominable, he makes three massively successful pieces of software that every major distro willingly adopts?

@@microcolonel there are not many admins that adore systemd's stability, reliability and compatibility on their production servers...

@@EvzenEmanuel I'm one of the many who do. systemd has never caused an issue in production after being configured according to the manual in any system I have overseen. Brand new components may be less than ready, but nobody's forcing you to adopt those.

@@microcolonel well, my experience is quite the opposite. There's probably reason many of us, administrators don't like Lennart's software. Pulseaudio is also not known for superb stability and reliability. Same goes for avahi. Anyway power to you if your experience is good so far.

the change from 2016 to 2017.... what a nightmare that was... I still remember, suddenly commands that I known and used daily would not work anymore, applications becoming broken, slower, heavier, bloated... laggy... lag on linux, what an absurd... I was very happy with a frozen (no updates) ISO of Linux 2016 in a USB stick... used that one up until 2021 and had an absolutely marvellous time enjoying the best of what linux had to offer... when it was time to update for new hardware, I gave up on adapting to systemd and migrated back to Windows... for my own sanity sake, I'm very glad I made that switch, mental health is important

Yeah, it's funny how they said it was a temporary fuss because "a few people don't like change". A decade later people are still using GNOME 3 as a case study of what *not* to do to your users. GNOME 3 is the New Coke of open source software.

@@felipec I've heard this tons and tons of times in the past: you can't criticize our changes, because "people just hate change" and in a little while you are guaranteed to "see the light" and realize how wrong you were. Whenever you hear that line, you know you're talking to someone who believes they can't be wrong.

@@helloitismetomato This is the same reason why Firefox keeps moving into obscurity and losing market share.

Gnome has exceptionally poor software development practices. Every update breaks tons of stuff. Gnome devs absolutely don't give a flying f about user and dev experience.

@@helloitismetomato and you know they are idiots.

Kernel modules are by definition not part of the user space ABI, and are in most cases also GPL violations. It probably bothers them, but kernel modules create their own ABI and API. You can't maintain what you can't even define in the first place. In fact two third party modules can be mutually exclusive.

They literally don't care. As far as they are concerned those third party modules should not exist. I am generally inclined to agree.

​@@steventhebrockwell I thought they were using the syscall linking exception

@@joshallen128 Not sure what you mean. Third party kernel modules don't interface with the kernel using syscalls. Otherwise they wouldn't be kernel modules.

@@steventhebrockwell I was thinking they were since they operate in user space or firmware outside the kernel area

That's not true. He specifically mentioned ABI, and that he kept testing the very first binaries that ran on Linux in 1991.

@@felipec Oh, right I think I heard "not so much when it comes to ABI" ... and I really wonder if you can run 1991 code unless in emulated environment (e.g.: VM) ... and I don't think this would have a any chance outside of x86 architecture ... But I may be wrong ...

@@bogdanbaudis4099 Linux initially supported only one architecture: 386, so of course the initial binaries only worked on x86. The bigger point is that Linux cares about binary compatibility. Of course it's not maintained 100% of the time, they have broken it. But they do try not to break it. Linux tries really hard, harder than other projects, but it's not perfect.

This is technolgoy already exists... it's called containers and you can configure the "sandbox" as you like.

There are a couple of ways around this, with technologies that are similar but not the same. One concept involves containers, and the other involves packaging your program with all the dependencies sent with it. That means a snap or a flat-pack. Another technology that goes some way to dealing with this, is an ap-image. Now all of these different solutions come with their own pros and cons. And as you mentioned yourself, there are virtual-machines. I am trying to decide whether to keep or finally ditch my Win-11 VirtualBox completely because the one remaining task I could only do in Windows, is no longer available to me anyway, meaning my Windows box is a curiosity - like a desktop toy that has balls on strings... You can grab it by the balls and make then swing and clack, but that's not getting your work done... Now there is something to be said for having Bill Gates by the balls, but [shrug] it doesn't pay the bills.

See Firejail.

AppImage is a way to bundle all dependancies with the software. I believe it stores a system folder structure that holds all needed libraries etc and runs the program in chroot there.

The most comprehensive solution for this is QubesOS, which runs everything in virtual machines and also separates the network as well as USB ports into their own VMs for security purposes.