Wow they also look similiar too.

Oh my god, I was just thinking that! Linux Office Suite.

It's crazy, they do look similar and almost nobody has noticed it until now!

*Screenplay by Aaron Sorkin*

“The Big Source”

that and c maybe python

you'll end up in being more proficient lol

Goo

I've coded in assembler for a job in the past, assembler is still my favorite. Python is a close second.

Learn Rust

prissy bitch Linus is

@Daddy webdev is 🤢

@Daddy mainly because you have to develop in garbage language (javascript, or if you are lucky, typescript), dealing with frameworks and libraries written by uncle bob fanatics (which have bugs all around them), in the end it's so painful to do pretty much anything. i used to do webdev, but i'm glad i finally do systems programming instead

@@ishdx9374 where are u learning systems programming from ?

@@Tintak_hatpin random places all over internet, try doing something like osdev, browser engine (or layout engine), emulators, programming languages, game engines etc

indeed

Great comment :D

Lol. War of the languages.

Try 'exit' or 'return'

I took ap cs. Now I will destroy any computer that has one line of java code written in it.

))

D Grossi 1999 Watch the video, ffs. :P

TBH I don't care Java or Oracle Linus is talking about. For me, they have been synonymous.

The problem is, Java was made by Sun Micro-systems and released in 2007 under the GNU General Public License, and Oracle has done their best since acquiring Sun to make Java non-free, after the fact. So the question is, do we let them do that?

An oracle can never be deterministic. That's where the problem comes from :)

LOL THE COFFEE DRINKING?! LOLN

Irony

More like *caffeine*

😂

lol

Potenti4lz That is not sincerity, that is compensation

@@AndyU96 In some countries, the idiom "to write like a doctor" means "to have a horrible handwriting" and you can say "you should have been a doctor" as a response to their handwriting.

@@AndyU96 I think he was making a joke about his handwriting...

also Linus of all people should know that doctors nowadays make dog shit

Factually incorrect though, he's praised so many more languages and if I had to guess he probably has more gripes with C than Rust for instance.

Nah, Java is just that horrible.

And he did neither!!!! He wrote the Linux kernel not the os!

@@JanHDD "Hello everybody out there using minix - I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds 1991 Then the GNU guys who had a less evolved kernel chose to adopt Linux and became Linux + GNU. So yeah, he did wrote an operating system.

Best bait

@@soumyaboral3354 Guess what? r/wooosh

@@denistereshchenko2505 maybe..

"if you arent going to use the term 'new' exactly as it is used in c++ then why use it at all?" Who said they had to base its usage on how it was used in c++? Thats not at all a valid point. You could make the case for the term being redundant but thats about it

@@justincameron9123 that's exactly what he said though, 'it is redundant'. It doesn't add anything.

@@iamamish Which I acknowledged. Do you read the other half?

@@justincameron9123 Yes, the first half is what I'm talking about. The first half of your comment called OP out for suggesting the use of 'new' in Java had to be modeled after the way in which it was used in C++. But, he wasn't suggesting 'new' had to be used the same way as it was in C++. He was simply pointing out that C++ had a reason for the keyword, while Java did not. You conceded the point about redundancy at the end of your comment, as if it were a side point to his comment, but it was the entirety of OP's observation - namely that it is pointless to use 'new' in Java.

JetBrains clearly had the same idea with "new", which is why it's not part of the Kotlin language at all

It's just one line of code like anything else 👀.

Dude you are trying to argue with the father of Linux that literally wrote the software that the whole world is running on.

@titoil (?) Fake news. My laptop isn't running on ​Linux.

@@ericvosselmans5657 Your toaster is.

@@pyotrilyichtchaikovskyii6638 So I heard

yeah I love Java, because I know when I write the code it's just going to work

there are good strongly typed languages too btw

@@-..-_-..- You have a fitting user-name xD. I'm a Java Dev, but that made me chuckle. Thanks.

TypeScript gang does not approve of the last part of your comment. You are not here and maybe not here. You either are or you are not!! *makes an angry face*

Haskell is even more strongly typed than Java and has none of the suck that Java has. In fact the type system is so strong you don't even need to declare types, the compiler figures it all out with an extremely powerful type inference algorithm. Type declarations exist solely for the programmers benefit as they make type errors the compiler gives you a little clearer.

Although of course one doesn't necessarily have to use the newer features of Java.

@@anon8510 more "functional" features perhaps? I don't see how they are bad. Besides the same could be said a lot of languages.

@@anon8510 Yes definitely. I think functional features are good. I'm more of a Scala developer myself. Well 50% Java- 50% Scala. I agree. I don't know much about C#, would you mind sharing in what way C# is better than Java in your opinion? Would you say C# = Kotlin?

@@jean4j_ I think Kotlin is one of the most beautiful languages I have written in. A real pleasure to use. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with C#, so I can't really say how it compares to Kotlin. I honestly don't see why people hate Java so much, though. I really don't see that many problems with it. It's nothing spectacular but I don't mind working with it. I am currently working on a Java with Spring Boot project and really enjoying it. I really like working with C on my personal projects, though.

@@CoreDump451 I definitely don't understand the hate towards Java. Most of people only think of Java before Java 8. They think of super complex projects that were often poorly designed with massive use on inheritance. Java has evolved and has an ok syntax. More concise (type inference, records, fp features, etc...). I don't get why people hate Java so much and love python that much (being a data engineer I've used Python a lot). Have you tried Scala? Pretty similar to Kotlin in many ways

+Jiz Tom It's not about Java programmers, is about the language it self. A Developer need understand that and learn more than one language and decide what use on each problem solving, on each context.

David Kennedy Araújo it's a joke man

+Jiz Tom As a Java programmer you shouldn't be smart enough to be offended. Something is wrong here. Maybe you're really really bad at it? Just searching for an escape route for you.

+MrOperettalover Java is also a place, he's making a joke. It's "you should be smart enough to not be offended". What escape route are you offering? None that I can see from that asinine comment.

***** Linus Thorvalds "I don't really care, I mean Java, what a horrible language": We don't need to Linus word for it. Everybody can search at google for source code and at the very first page they find they see Java is so verbose, no sane person would ever like to write or read it. It's a language for complete morons basically.

You mean verbose, boiler plated, and convoluted.

@@LiberatedMind1 if you think Java syntax is convoluted - look at some of C++ STL files. Templates and pointers to functions make C++ code nigh unreadable.

@@procerator std::nonowning_memory_resource resource{};

@@KishoreG2396i have vietnam flashbacks from std::allocator, basically unreadable unless there are constants

procerator Well type deduction makes them usable for the average one. But goddammit when you look the internals up...

10 year old comment but i do agree. Python isnt an awful language for example, but if you try to write an operating system with it i will literally break into your house to stop you.

@@Big-Chungus21 Python is an awful language. The only reason it's popular is its huge library of modules, just like Java was (and still is to an extent).

@@youtubeenjoyer1743 at least python helps to build AI like these days, even though with the foundation of other language

@@Big-Chungus21 as a guy who uses python, I'd help you stop me 😂😂😂

@@youtubeenjoyer1743 do you regard any dynamic language as genuinely good, and if so which one(s)?

Lol, congratulations! You pointed something out that anyone with a brain would have noticed. I really don't know what you had planned to achieve by demeaning him, but I'm sure it worked out for you. Quite redundant and obnoxious.

true java have a lot to offer and we should look at them as a tool i think when said Java is a horrible language he was speaking about its syntax i mean i am java dev but i cannt blame other when they hate on java syntax

Bundi Clionie Lol stfu.

***** first i dont hate Linus i love the guy but most of opinion is based on him being kernel dev java maybe suck in desktop app or mobile or jvm slow etc but if he where to be backend web dev he would think a little highly of java because no one does distributed systems better then java he hate c++ because it crap in kernel dev and he call ppl that program kernel subdeveloper but if he would have been working in high gaming like gta he would have to use c++ coz nobody does it better language are tool hate or love them and a programmer jop is to use which tool fit his task the most and let us be honest in programming world languages are religion only in programming where i become atheist

If he was to reply to you he would probably say "people are different and it's great that you disagree with me". He is a great dude. I think he has a lot of fun throwing words and look at others reaction.

what's the problem with references and ram?

You must be new to computers. In modern programming (python, go, JS,..) its rare that something is _not_ a reference (a pointer). Additionally all primitive data types (int, float, double, byte,...) *are no references in java.* Your argument is invalid on many levels.

@@TheBigLou13 dude it is a very beginner level info. But Thanks. By the way primitive types also get place from ram. Evrything is in ram. Heap and Stack terms are just an abstraction layer for our memory. That was just a joke.

Is isn't a silly question though. Not all languages have their use. Some can absolutely be better designed than others, and be better at all tasks than others. To take an extreme example, you wouldn't say brainfuck is a viable language for any niche, right?

@@obiwac True, but I think a lot of the language wars seem to happen with mainstream languages that have clear uses more than niche or small obscure languages.

+Viewtiful Joe Read the cplusplus.com tutorial. it's pretty good even if it's not a book.

Asu Whoa! This is great! Thank you.

read the glibc source code, if you're in debian $ apt source glibc The Linux Programming Interface: A Linux and UNIX System Programming by Michael Kerrisk Linux Device Driver Book 3rd Edition by Jonathan Corbet Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment by Richard W. Stevens UNIX Network programming also by by Richard W. Stevens The 2nd Edition of Advanced UNIX Programming by Marc J. Rochkind Start small, don't try to take on the entire Kernel, creating a driver is a good first step. If you don't mind a video tutorial, try UEFI Dev (in C) by Queso Fuego

read the glibc source code, if you're in debian $ apt source glibc The Linux Programming Interface: A Linux and UNIX System Programming by Michael Kerrisk Linux Device Driver Book 3rd Edition by Jonathan Corbet Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment by Richard W. Stevens UNIX Network programming also by by Richard W. Stevens The 2nd Edition of Advanced UNIX Programming by Marc J. Rochkind Start small, don't try to take on the entire Kernel, creating a driver is a good first step. If you don't mind a video tutorial, try UEFI Dev (in C) by Queso Fuego

read the glibc source code, if you're in debian The Linux Programming Interface: A Linux and UNIX System Programming by Michael Kerrisk Linux Device Driver Book 3rd Edition by Jonathan Corbet Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment by Richard W. Stevens UNIX Network programming also by by Richard W. Stevens The 2nd Edition of Advanced UNIX Programming by Marc J. Rochkind Start small, don't try to take on the entire Kernel, creating a driver is a good first step. If you don't mind a video tutorial, try UEFI Dev (in C) by Queso Fuego

I have coded in C++/C, Python, a bit of Java and a bit of Assembly and I have used Bash extensively and Batch a little. My opinion on them: C++: I am essentially a C++ fanboy, I love it, even if it has its quirks. C has similar sentiments from me, but I hate the way it handles I/O. Python: I use it only for stuff that I am too "bored" to tackle with C++, like making a quick graph or calculation. I am not a huge fan and I find it not so minimalistic as I'd like (as in, you'd need to remember a lot of stuff by heart), but I see its appeal. Java: Java wants to be what Python is. Buit it's implemented horribly (seriously, who thought making a VM for just running a program was a good idea?), and it's so fucking difficult to learn due to its overly OOL design. I hate it, period. Assembly: Ah, assembly. The near machine language. When I saw how minimalistic it is (especially when you tackle stuff like RISC-V Assembly, although I have used on a practical level only x82-64 assembly) I was pleasantly surprised and liked it a lot. It's not as difficult as you may think when you hear the term "machine language" and it's fun experimenting around with it. Now on scripting languages: Bash: Ironically, Bash seems like Python in some parts, but with a more limited purpose (as in being a scripting language, not a fully blown programming language) and of course without the OOP design, yet I like it 10x more. Maybe because it doesn't try to be something comparable to a fully blown programming language Batch: It's a weird mix of Bash and logic you'd find on Assembly languages. I am not so sure how to feel about this one.

PwnageDev You're right that I'm not familiar with EE, but my impression (possibly incorrect) was that the difference was only in the libraries, not the language itself. I don't really have any complaints at all about the Java libraries. I think they're great. I used to think that C# was very similar to Java, until I had to port an application from C# to Java, and the lack of lambdas and delegates (references to class methods) became very apparent. In Java, you have to substitute an inner class or anonymous class, which makes the code really ugly and verbose. This pattern shows up all the time in event-driven UI code, regardless of platform. To someone who hasn't experienced it, it may seem like a minor inconvenience, but believe me that it gets old real fast when you have to type unnecessary class declarations hundreds of times just to set up handlers for a UI event (see below for a small example). And a LINQ-like library in Java is almost pointless without language support for lambdas and closures, because it would be extremely verbose and virtually unreadable. Fortunately, Java 8, released just a few months ago, has support for lambdas, but it will take a while to trickle down to all the tool chains and platforms. class CSharpUIClass { public CSharpClass() { button1.SetClickHandler(HandleClick1); button2.SetClickHandler(HandleClick2); } private void HandleClick1() { ... } private void HandleClick2() { ... } } class JavaUIClass { public JavaUIClass() { button1.setClickHandler(clickHandler1); button2.setClickHandler(clickHandler2); } private ClickHandler clickHandler1 = new ClickHandler { public void handleClick() {...} } private ClickHandler clickHandler2 = new ClickHandler { public void handleClick() {...} } }

Java == Bloat nuff said

PwnageDev The C++ standard libraries don't address GUI, so any bloat in a C++ GUI library is on the library author. Actually, many of the GUI libraries used in C++ development are C libraries, since C++ has no problem calling C functions, and that's the lowest common denominator.

PwnageDev Yes, I agree. I didn't understand what you meant by bloat.

Java is bloat, execution is slow its just in general a garbage language there is no reason to use Java over C or C++. C has speed in aces all day over C++ or Java, properly written code in C will be much smaller than the same program in C++ or Java. C just trounces the competition. and btw no not all GUI libraries are slow, they just appear to be slow because you are/were using an abstracted C++ version of a C library. and people use C for GUI all the time, Linux+X11 are both written in C, Microsoft Windows uses C for their GUI, OS-X uses Obj-C, SDL is written in C it powers pretty much every modern-quake based game, Cocoa2d is written in Obj-C. C in some shape or form powers(powered) roughly 94% of all software, the remaining percentage is software either written before C's creation, or software that never had a single interaction with C either in the languages creation or pulling in libraries translated from C. so basically C owns your favorite language even some of the older revived languages probably use C in their creation of compilers/interpreters. in the case of compilers at least until they were self-compile-able.

it seems to be, that you don't know any programming language at all

+Александр Василенко #shotsfired !!

A correct statement if you substitute C++ for "Java"... :-)

+dvoulio Why exactly? Java is a bloated language.

+dvoulio there wasn't a single occurance of the "Java" string in the original post (only "java"), so yes, it was a correct statement after all.

0:45

+Александр Василенко Piss off a Java fanboy: Check :P (write-line "Sue me :D")

***** is that all you can say, piece of shit?

+Александр Василенко Just joking around. Go on and code with Java if that can make you feel any better. I couldn't care less! I know C++ pretty well and find it quite ugly too. That doesn't mean it's absolutely useless and unlikable :) class HelloWorld { public static void main(String[] args) {System.out.println("I'm outta here. Good night!"); } }

***** Talks about ugliness of the language is a strange thing. Languages are made to help you solve problems - nothing more. You want to write soft for the scalable servers - write in Java or Scala. You need to write native code for Android or drivers - write in C++. If you want to make your web-site interactive - write in JavaScript. If you want a true beauty of code - write in Lisp. (format t "Good Luck")

+Sébastien Laberge It is a shity language

999a0s Shh, you're dealing with people who passed tests at a university in Java-ology. They know everything!

999a0s There are probably people that have been programming longer than him that think Java is a great programming language. I don't care how impressive Linus is just becuase he says something sucks doesn't mean he's wrong. Although in this case I personally agree with him, I just don't want him infallible.

999a0s Well, Linus is a great system-programmer. He writes in C. Every language have it's purpose. Java is quite good in creating web-services and in server-side programming, but C is not that language that could solve problems easily in this. But, for sure, it is impossible to write drivers on Java, so that's why Java sucks at point of Linus. Nobody could be right for 100%, because we are all humans, we make mistakes. So, Java is really good for web, and C is good for systems, that is truth. Some dislikes, opinions etc. - just emotional stuff.

Александр Василенко Yeah, which is why Java is losing traction on the web to django and asp. Oracle tried to copy OPENSTEP/WebObjects but I'd argue they failed technically. They succeeded in giving it away and thus getting a foothold in universities which is the only reason we're stuck with it.

999a0s yes respect the experienced

Fuck java is gay

@@meghanachauhan9380 Really nice arguments you put up here, food for thought. Also very eloquent writing style, makes reading your 4 word article a breeze. Always apreaciate it when peope with lots of knowlegde bring up their expertise in such an unbiased manner.

Rust is a great replacement for C and C++.

Okay but that's assuming C and Java are the only languages in existence. There are many other languages that fill the same need as java. He didn't say "anything other than C is horrible", he said "java is horrible"

@@obiwac But why is Java horrible? What's the problem with it?

@@CoreDump451 (my understanding, not Linus's) ignoring the optimisation point (even though Java apps all seem to use the same shoddy slow unresponsive frameworks for typical apps), and the issue with over-verbose code (making programmers basically auto-correct champions instead of coders), the language fails to be simpler than low-level code by requiring OOP principles which make the code less readable (more esoteric, not C++ but still) and longer overall (file-per-class is ridiculous, patterns are not easier than C to learn and utilise properly). Other than that, unit testing is decent with all the classification you'll be doing, but effective implementation should probably be lazily done when errors arise to avoid productivity being halved by this task alone, making the focus of using Java for unit testing excessive when considering all it's other pitfalls stated here

It's actually not as hard as most people think. Most computer solutions are too simplistic

@Felipe Gomes Yep🤣

Super Mario World was written in assembly and only had 16 thousand lines of code. If it was written in java it'd probably have 84 thousand lines plus 750 classes and classes inside classes, and methods from interfaces declared in subclasses inside classes, etc.

And it is.

@Felipe Gomes uh... because he created a programming language that is being used by hundreds of millions of people ? That certainly puts him above average, even if you don't like java

@@gregh5061 But, that doesn't mean Java is a great language. Example: Millions of people are believers of any god (Jesus, Allah, whatever), and that isn't good, it's terrible. Equals to Java

@@sorcerereye the idea of JVM is wide used now a day even by google themselves, JAVA changed the whole software land and forced apple and microsoft to counter it with their own close cross-platform like .net. to say that not impressive is pretty silly, its not about used its about how complex and new this concept where.

@@sorcerereye it’s actually terrible to not believe In a higher power…

i'm being held hostage, oracle wants me to tell you that theres java updates you havent installed please send help

Absolutely not the case...?! Immediate edit: Please offer me some examples.

+Isaac Monteiro well yeah, try programming the web with C, good luck I guess :) Each language has its use.

***** actually you pretty much need to use HTML with Java, too. PHP is a rubbish language but Ruby, the language itself is pretty cool I like it, and I've heard that the Rails framework is good, too. The sad thing is I'd love to learn it but in my country they usually look for Java or C# developers

***** How is PHP faster than Java? How is Minecraft slow? I guess your just a generic Java hater, you just hate Java because you think it is cool to do so. PHP is by no means faster than Java lol. Plus at scale Java is much better than PHP because PHP has no proper multithreading capabilities.

***** And what security issues are you talking about? omg you know nothing about this xD

Tarikul Islam oh I hate Python with a passion :D But I bet it is great, a lot of people seems to like it

+Michael Bruce (CodeAmend) haha

But.. I just switched completely to Python. For the last few months have been the most enjoyable programming experiences I have had so far. Python!

+Michael Bruce (CodeAmend) I think Java gets more hideous the more you know about the language. Also if you're learning it in university, I've found they tend to go overboard with OO. Also, every design pattern has it's uses but also has drawbacks. There's a good balance especially when performance is considered.

@@MaxterTheTurtle Java stays the same, really. In fact because of how strict it is errors can be much less painful to fix

​@@theshermantanker7043 There are aspects of Java that make it a good language. I prefer Java's statically typed variables over Python's dynamically typed variables. Having something fail at compile time is much better than having something fail at runtime IMO. While my previous comment was railing against OOP, I would rather work with Java classes/interfaces than C++ classes/pure-virtual classes. I somewhat disagree with Java being more strict with errors. Most modern languages are pretty comparable. I think that I favor how Rust/Go handle errors compared to C++/Java. I've programmed a lot in C since I wrote that comment. I would argue that C is one of the most stable languages out there. Programs link against symbols within libraries that are decades old.

Woohow to run java application in Android we need low level programming

@@kimkong9391 yeah but you don't need to rewrite it people already did the low level programming stuff for us

He said "Java is a horrible language". Not "anything other than C is a horrible language".

Because it's anything but simple. The VM is also prone to a flaw or two.

LemonPieLoL When you code in c++ programmer is prone to a flaw or more

Linux is not a religion, stop worshiping that guy.

***** Python. Lol. Stephen Kong find me a better prophet and ill worship him instead. Common Man True, but at least that's within your control. Just to clarify.. I don't actually hate Java.

He did, it's because google was sued for using it years after they had blessing to do so.

They Hate Us Cuz They Ain't Us :D

Reload page.

Marvin Blum YT Android app

Ryan, next time leave the video (back button) and then get back to it. Advert should be gone.

4 years later, what language are you using today sir? C# is pretty much dead

@@RainerLuizFonseca definitely not dead

@flying pandaz what is an ArrayList, is it an array of lists, a list of arrays? how could they get such basic naming so wrong

@@RainerLuizFonseca LOL. "C# is pretty dead" - Dream on. Its popularity is growing everyday.

@@thiruvetti yeah, from 6% market share in 2019 to 5% in 2020 lol

That's a horrible idea.

yea just use linux on your smartphone trolololol

@@xCwieCHRISx i use iPhones, and Apple systems are also UNIX but not Linux, they're all based on BSDs. get some research.

@@xCwieCHRISx Android is NOT Linux ffs

Write once, debug everywhere.

@@friedrichmyers you're uneducated !

Uneducated !

"Java can offer everything from default without the addition of external libraries" Tell that to my maven repo...

@MR MEME 6 years a bit too late my friend haha but thanks anyway. I still went with Java as my first language but ever since I started university I've used java, c++, php, javascript and I did do a bit of assembly but that was for programming a micro controller and it wasn't anything too in depth plus I've forgotten most of it lel. I understand now that picking a specific programming language and sticking with it is dumb though, in reality you use what you need for the job that you're doing. Thanks again for you input though, assembly has intrigued me and i've wanted to delve into it in my free time but I've been so busy lately, and their are a lot of other languages and tools i wish to learn first.

@MR MEME Oh i see haha. Tbf, when I did it at uni I did struggle with it but the difficulty is half the fun (perhaps not for a first language). If you think assembly is bad though you should check out a language called Brainfuck, it has only 8 commands total. You'll soon understand why it got its name

@MR MEME Oh, i didn't mean to say assembly was bad, it's still used even today I believe for the creation of certain operating systems. Plus, like you said since it's low level it's a lot closer to how a computer thinks compare to the standard high level languages (especially OOP). It's just the only interest I'd have in assembly is recreational because it's not really usable (or extremely difficult) for what I want to do.

As somebody who is... _actually_ writing a game engine in Java, this is actually very true! I like the language and everything about it, but it just isn't enough sometimes.

I’m so glad that Rust is becoming the best of both worlds now

Yeah except fastforward to today, and litterally fucking everything runs linux lmfao. So realistically, wtf are you gonna do with Java even? For what conceivable reason would you be running apple/windows for anything but the desktop?

Dude, that refactoring support was implemented because it was horrible to refactor Java. Just try it on normal text editor and compare it with other languages

Java is actually widely used today still.

@@iceron1720 I'd argue it's become way better than it ever was.