so if a player scored 200 goals every season, wins CL, title, cup,... but was born in San marino for example, he still couldnt be the greatest ever? bullsh*t

shaka sweating buckets, hes running out of reasons to hate

Umtiti bettar than messi..umtiti win world cup😂😂😂😂

Andre Gomes is better than Modric because modric never won a international trophy. Ok

This doesn’t make him the Goat. He’s been the greatest. The World Cup argument is dumb as hell.

As black man, following football for the last 40 years. I watched almost all the major tournaments. Back in the 50s,60s and 70s football was a joke. No tactics, no chemistries, no yellow and red cards. And the scores were like 10-0,15-0 and sometimes 20-0. And that time Brazil was dominant, that's why Pele had accumulated 1225 goals. Nowadays, football becomes so strong and we don't those big scores. And today we see the players are bigger, stronger and faster than the players back then. Even the defenders of today are more technical and smarter than the players of back then. And with all these changes of today's football, still Messi outsmart these modern players. Simply the best!

messi had the chance to play for spain when he was a teenager he would have won many trophies, but he chose argentina, his home and gave his people much joy through a lot of tournaments and years he took his team to three finals, has better world cup stats than maradona and he is doing this for nine years yet this is more than maradona ever did and last: you should NOT judge a players quality by how many trophies he has won, but by the way he plays and his importance in the game of his team please see that messi is the best to ever do it there never was anyone who was able to do what he is doing and I very much doubt it that there ever will be anyone like him again

This man is jealous of Messi

Giroud has won the world cup is he the best ever xhaka

This guy is saying Messi isn't the GOAT because of Higuain. Being the GOAT is an individual honour not a team honour.

This guy sounds like a 7 year old kid The team didnt win WC so Messi is not the Best lmao wtf!!??? You understand Footbal and you have eyes than you know Messi is the Best of all time

Roger Federer is GOAT and he didn't win Olympic gold.

and andre gomes better then modric because he won euro and modric has no international trophys ?????????

Oh old man don’t go into emotional side so u watched pela playing when u r kid that doesn’t make him better than Messi just see the level of athleticism n talent in this dynamic era

So the difference between Messi being the goat and not being the goat are missed sitters from Higuain and Palacio? If either one makes it Argentina wins. What a dumb argument. He’s gonna end his career playing like 800 games and have 800 goals, win every other trophy imaginable, have every record imaginable, but those two missed sitters by his team mates define his career? Absurd

Shaka: Messi is great and all... but i need a career as an annoying television guy. Got bill to pay you know

*I saw pele's and maradonas old footage and the defenders and midfielders.against them had no stratergy no pace* *Compare maradonas vs messi goal of the century* *The defenders against maradona were jogging and defenders* *against messi were chasing him like crazy!*

Guys, let's be serious forget Messi, Ronaldo, Pelè, Maradona and Zidane. The true GOAT is Mustafi. I mean he's won the world cup so he must be the best.

Shaka you lost my respect after this man. 🤦🏽‍♂️ Messi is the greatest football player of all time. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Honestly, He has a point but still Messi is the greatest player of all Time, no one has played better than Messi. I am a Madrid and Ronaldo fan.

Shaka you are just being so stubborn, to a degree where it becomes childish. Everyone can have their opinions on different matters, but that World cup argument is extremly lame. With your logic, Pedro is the best in the world because he has literally won everything you can win as a footballer.

he is without doubt the GOAT. The things he does are unbelievable and no one comes close to him.

People have to overcome their ego and sometimes watch the game and accept the reality.

Shaka sitting there like " I hate these guys"

Giroud is better than lionel messi because he has won the world cup i guess that makes sense 😂😂😂😂

Goat because of Tottenham performance?_😂....... Goat because of his career

Ronaldos not even in the competition hahaha

“Best club player ever” has scored the highest no. Of International goals for Argentina. This guy is running out of reasons to hate him.

Bro I’m the biggest Ronaldo fan in the world . I’ve been a Madrid fan for the longest time and even I respect Messi. To me, Messi is the greatest. What’s he done for Barcelona is remarkable. His accomplishments are top notch. He hasn’t had the best luck internationally but do you know how hard it is to win a World Cup? People should stop trying to put him down. Cause when it’s all said and done and his career is over. Everyone will remember him as the best to ever put on a football jersey .

Shaka's argument is stupid. He says it's a team game and at the same time he is nailing Messi for not "individually" winning the world cup. The world cup is NOT the best trophy in terms of quality. Champions League is. The world cup has its history and charm... It used to be the greatest show of the best football players and teams to play in front of the world. There's the UCL now. UCL teams can beat the shit out of any international teams. Sit down Shaka. You're drunk!

“But if he was French he’ll win the World Cup” “IS hE FrEnCh?” Awkward pause Lmaooo his face when is said it 😂

Shaka said Pele!!! I respect Pele but Diego maradona took Napoli to different heights and won a World Cup.

Cristiano Ronaldo is not even a part of this conversation.

Gosh the level of stupidity. “It’s a team game”, and yet you’re judging him, an individual, for a team thing...?!? Ok, maybe I’m daft but what the actual hell...?? As an amazing player. Now I don’t know Pele, but from what I’ve seen from Messi, I believe he deserves it. And people should stop trying to kick him down. The man’s a legend if not THE one. But that’s just my opinion. I mean I’m just one person. What do I know right..? 🤷‍♀️

Almost every single time Messi steps on ground he produces magic... ⚽

Guess What, he won the World Cup!!! Vamos Lionel Messi

So Zidane is better than Messi because he won a world cup? Xavi Hernandez too? I don't get that argument. Messi is the GOAT. Not only do stats back it up but more importantly, the eye test backs it up

Shaka is like the Charlamagne of ESPN.

Football is a teamgame, i couldnt agree more! But, GOAT is an individual achievement, so that makes this conversation irrelevant!

To base who's the best ever on 7 games played every four years is utter ridiculous. Yes, indeed it's a team game. If you reverse that argument, Argentina without Messi wouldn't have even played the World Cup. He took them to the Final in 2014 and did so surrounded by scrubs. If the people at France Football think like this guy now I understand a lot of things. But I always say the same thing: Imagine you've got a club, you can sign anyone you want, who would you sign first? Exactly.

i think shaka need doctor

Muller has WC and plays great for club, is he the goat ? Iniesta played the best in club, and has WC, is he the best ? David Villa played better than Neymar for barca in my opinion, and has a WC, is he the goat ? The above mentioned names are big ones maybe not today but they were. Now why are they not in the GOAT list ? Even griezman thinks now he is at the same level as messi and ronaldo because of this shit thought of winning the world cup as the key feature for being called GOAT. Is he ? They all may have goals and a WC, but none of them is... magical !

Dicknaldo fanboys in the comment section is so jelly that he is not mentioned in the title of the goat.

"It's a team game it's a team game." "So if Argentina doesn't win the world cup with Messi in it he's not the GOAT?" "No" *Nice logic Mr. Blackman*

Messi is on another level, world cup or not

In the end he will be declared 🐐. What I see is Messi changing his style of play now he doesn't dribble like he used to do but wait for the right moment to do it. He has also master the art of free kick. Now he plays more deep and build the play from there. If this way he continues to evolve I can see another 9 - 10 years in him by then I think no one would complain why he isn't the best. This is a god gift with which hard work cannot keep up. Once in a generation player he is and people will realize his value once he retires from the game. P.s. I feel most unlucky player in the world is Messi but I have a faith in the later period of his career he will achieve what is expected from him because he isn't leaving without lifting that gold shit by hook or crook. Have a nice day all.

"Best club player ever". Such an unintelligent statement. Messi is only the best "club player" ever, but Pele is the best ever according to him? Why is he not calling Pele the best national team player ever then? Why make this stupid line between club and national team when talking about Messi, but when talking about Pele the performances with national team is enough? If Pele was definetely the best player, he should have been the best "club player" also. It smells like bias. Shaka is contradicting himself. Messi have already proven himself with the national team by getting to several finals while being a key-player. Wether or not he wins a tournament is also up to the rest of the team, luck and other factors.

That guy doesn't make any sense and here's why. He's saying that for Messi to be considered the best ever, needs to win the best trophy in the sport. I understand that, but here's the deal, that makes no sense. Here's an example: Messi carries Argentina to the WC final, he scores and its 1-0. Argentina scores 2 own goals and Argentina loses the final. That guy is saying, because his teammates messed up in the final, because of 1 game, he cant be considered the BEST EVER, all because mistakes by his teammates? I think this is a very good example, and I would love to have a debate with that guy.

loool English media back at it again. This performance was nothing we haven't seen from him in the last 10 years. In fact he does this shit in almost every game. Just because he does it against an English team, you are paying attention to it, which is sad.

Pele was scoring against scrubs

He always do that in group stages, we want him to replicate this performance in quarter final as well

Yeah shaka's drunk

I'm just going to say this once. The greatest trophy is the world cup, but it is for a team. The team which wins it makes that team the best team, it doesn't make the best player of that team the best ever. Going by his logic, to be considered the greatest player ever you should get the most prestigious individual trophy, which is the world cup Golden Ball, which Messi did achieve deservedly

No other sport has a “top prize” that comes around every 4 years, imagine if the nba finals were every 4 years, like wtf are you talking about bro

“It’s a team game”. No one is asking who the best team is, they’re asking who the best individual player is.

You cant rate an individual by using a team award to do so simple

He already was the GOAT

Is the World Cup really the most prestigious thing in football though? Because the champions league has more quality, better players, better teams. The only reason the World Cup is rated as the biggest and best trophy in football is because it’s every 4 years and most players only get to play in 1-2 of them in their careers and that’s the only reason.

The idea for GOAT never could applied to any other footballer because different generations players have their different achievements with different times and situations. But on personal level Messi just ahead anybody else in football history. That's the true fact, if you are not to be biased.

Shaka's on the money. Messi has never replicated his club form at international level. Pele and Maradona did with the latter winning the world cup for Argentina with a substandard Argentine team. Nicol is going senile - what has Giggs got to do with the conversation?

Finally???? He’s been the GOAT since 2009

messi is the goat with or without a world cup they always gotta try to find *something* to discredit him, people keep comparing messi the individual to team accomplishments and its completely unfair to messi, ill never understand why are people so reluctant to call this man the greatest. he is the goat plain and simple

For me it's quite simple, there hasn't been any other player in history (except Ronaldinho of course) that has made me happy and excited to watch more than Messi, I mean while watching normal players you only get excited when they score, but with Messi every single time he gets the ball I just get a feeling that something magical is going to happen, watching him play is like watching a movie, you're always excited and happy and the way he plays just brings me pure joy. Just by the way he plays I consider him the greatest of all time, let alone plus all his trophies. As for the world cup, it's difficult to win because it's held every 4 years, if it was held every 2 years I'm certaim that he would have won it, even more than once (considering he came very very close at 2014 WC but was just unlucky).

The only reason it applies to football and not other sports is because it's the only sport where you have a team effort and it only comes around once every 4 years. Basketball you have 5 people on the court, so it's less team base. An individual player can more easily overpower another team on their own and they have every year to win the championship. With baseball and NFL they're also every year so you get about 20 opportunities in your life whereas football you get 4 if you're lucky, almost no one gets 5 chances. Olympics is different because the biggest sports in the olympics are individual. So it's 100% on the individual if they win a swimming race. You can relays, but Michael Phelps wouldn't have hurt his legacy if he lost the relay races and won all his individual races. It's different from other sports.

But can he do it on a cold.... Yeah, enough of that already. Most dangerous player ever.

Messi and no one player can win a trophy all on there own. Trophies are team achievements. One player cant win it and never has won a title all on their own. You rate a player base on how they play the game. Not on a trophy that 11 players have to work for. Trophies are won by a team not one player.

Also nearly every goal he scores in box he is being hit or fouled by one or two defenders , yet he scores PHENOMENAL

Pele was great but guess what country he played against numerous times and lost most games vs europes top 5? Spanish league!

It's the dumbest argument ever. So Salah for example could never be considered the best player ever, even if he scored 100 goals a season, because Egypt will never win the world cup? Doesn't make any sense.

Been the goat for like 7 years now.

I think it's stupid to say that he can't be the best just because of not having won the World Cup. I still think Pele was better and I still say Pele is the GOAT, but I don't think Messi is any less for not winning the world cup

That awkward moment of silence

What a bunch of bollocks this "have to win with your national team to become the goat" is. For me is more about performing for your national team, witch Messi has. If a player is from a shit country, he can never become the greatest of all time, there is no logic...

He was already the goat

Well, he has a World Cup now.

Thank you and good luck

He just hates him, that’s all his reason. He can excuse himself of a team game as he wants, but he can’t change it. Yes, it’s a team game. But we’re talking individuals. And even so, maybe he didn’t win a cup with Argentina, but it was not once or twice when he carried the whole team on his shoulders and won the match, both locally or international. And he does it regularly. But of course, while he can make an impact, he can’t always win everything all by himself. As it’s been said, it’s a team game. It’s impossible for one individual to carry everyone every time. The same way like Ronaldo can’t carry all Portugal games just by himself. No one can. And no one ever was or will. Not i.e.Pele, while great, would never win without the rest of his team. His arguments are stupid he’s looking for reasons while getting out of breath. As an individual, Messi is the best who’s ever been.

The last guy to comment gave the perfect answer..1960's aint 21st century..

Lol here I am listening to this in July 2021 At 22:05

They seem like they're arguing the whole time.

Salty Ronaldo fanboys incoming

Its very funny to see CR7 is not even in the debate...honestly he was not in the debate ever....only stupid fanboys who dosent know much about football compare him to messi...no one else

“That’s makes no sense, that makes no sense “ 😂😂😂😂👌

Bro, shaka don't know what to say. Messi is top scorer for Argentina. It's a team game but he's not the best player ever because his teammates.. yea makes so much sense Shaka

Messi does not have to win world cup bcz he is not from this world, so he is best in universe like if you agree

Shaka , I don't if u watch cricket or not but if u did u would know about AB de Villiers..

0:19 That awkward silence was painful.

The title doesnt make sense ...

Messi is the greatest player of all time in terms of individual talent. As one of them said "The way messi manipulates the ball, I haven't seen any player able to do so in my life ever." Only thing messi lacks is world cup legacy. If he had won the world cup even haters couldn't help themselves but had to admit messi is the greatest player of all time. Plus, this and other many videos tell the fact that ronaldo is the most overrated player of all time. If experts have a serious goat discussion it's always between messi, maradona and pele. After that they bring cryuff, r9 etc. At last they are obliged to mention ronaldo's name so his fanboys keep quiet.

Aaaaaaaa! This hurts my brain!

Football's greatest individual award is the Ballon D'Or , he's won 5 of 'em !!

Exactly, its a team game. And if it wasn't he would have won the world cup 2 times already. So he is the best.

Pele was in an era where offisdes weren't a rule as well. Worst Goalkeepers in history.

Shaka doesn't have a good reason,winning the world cup doesn't make u the greatest ever,being great is personal and messi has proven that,even pele admits messi is a great lad

Can't believe that for the first time I felt like whole heartedly supporting stevie's argument when he said "Messi creates Magic"...

It’s a team sport. Team sport. He can’t be simultaneously a great defender, a great midfielder, a great forward, a great coach.. he dragged Argentina to the final. You can’t say he must win WC to be the GOAT.

That black cretinous fool is simply as illogical as they come. How is it Messi’s fault if the players surrounding him are talentless? That’s a terrible argument and it’s entirely fallacious and untenable. The World Cup is very hit and miss, the fact is, one impeccable player like Lionel Messi is not going to run through teams on his own, it’s simply too much weight for him to carry. It’s an inaccurate measurement to use when determining the best player in the world. Personally, Messi is the best player of all time.

Shak you a hater lol😂

the better question to shaka would be whichis the highest quality of football champions league or worldcup? for me worldcup is third division of champions league

I was die hard cricket fan but when I saw Messi' videos I was left stunned by his super natural skill n vision...I have seen all available videos of other footballing greats but nobody could make me fall in love with football the way Lionel Messi did.... It's unfortunate that he couldn't win the worldcup in 2014...but don't forget that he literally dragged Argentina to 4 finals... He is true magician on pitch and can bring more followers to football.. For me Messi is undoubtedly THE GOAT...