Logic Pro 11 on Apple Silicon: Are CPU Cores Fully Utilized?

Рет қаралды 24,036

Күн бұрын

Does Logic Pro 11 fully utilize the efficiency cores and the performance cores in Apple Silicon chips? I run a series of tests in this video to investigate.
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⏰ Timestamps:
00:00 Start
00:19 Which Apple Silicon Chips Will I Test
00:42 On Testing M3 Pro Chip
01:10 How the Tests Are Set Up
02:18 Addressing "Your tests are not realistic!"
3:31 Logic Pro 11 Core Utilization on M1 Max, M1 Pro and M2 Pro
03:51 Logic Pro X vs Logic Pro 11: Core Utilization (1024 Buffer)
04:12 Logic Pro X vs Logic Pro 11: Overall Multi-core Performance
04:21 Logic Pro 11 Performance on M1 Max/M1 Pro vs M2 Pro
04:40 Logic Pro X vs Logic Pro 11: Core Utilization (64 Buffer)
04:54 Running the Tests with A Stock Logic Pro Plugins (ChromaGlow)
05:11 Logic Pro 11 Core Utilization with ChromaGlow
05:22 Interesting Difference in Performance with ChromaGlow vs Saturn 2
06:37 Key Takeaways
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Пікірлер: 195

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching! 🙏 1⃣A popular comment is that e-cores are too weak to make a difference. They actually are not! In my M3 Pro MacBook Pro video where I tested 7 different DAWs, test results showed significant better performance when a DAW can fully use the e-cores. (Watch that video here ▶kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fLmhi5eT2Z_Yn2g.html) 2⃣Another recurring comment is that e-core should be reserved for system tasks/light tasks. OK, the problem is that when you have a chip where almost half of the cores are e-cores (e.g. 11-core M3 Pro or the 8-core M2), it makes a HUGE difference to be able to make your computer to pull out all the stops (aka use all the cores fully) to handle CPU intensive tasks as needed. 3⃣Lastly, the point of this video (and my other DAW testing videos) is to help fellow musicians, audio engineers and music producers make more informed decisions when determining which Mac to buy, because it’s not as simple as “buy the latest because it’s better.” What you use as your primary DAW is a critical factor here due to different levels of core utilization. I appreciate your support and stay creative!

@atetraxx 17 күн бұрын

on Macs, performance based DAWS like Bitwig Studio and Ableton forces all the realtime audio processing to the performance cores, as the efficiency cores are not suitable for it (they get aggressively forced to sleep etc.). Some linear arrangement hosts make use of the efficiency cores to process other things ahead, which are not realtime dependent, but with Bitwig Studio and Ableton Live being a non-linear DAW that has to be able to start any clip at any given time with sample accuracy, there's currently not much it can offload to those cores. Possible that logic is the same. Have you reached out to these DAWS to ask them? This is what they will tell you.

@vincewatson_official 26 күн бұрын

You win the Internet every time you post a video. You have saved me personally over €5000 over the last 2 years. Thank you for your deep analysis.

@complexivetunes 26 күн бұрын

Yes please try on live 12 😊

@jswebbproductions9785 26 күн бұрын

great video! I really appreciate you doing this .... thank you

@rondavid1272 21 күн бұрын

Bro you're a Legend! Keep on grinding!

@failuretolaunchdrums 26 күн бұрын

I look forward to your videos. Thank you!

@halvardlund4782 25 күн бұрын

Your work is important! Thank you. Waiting for the M5 Pro chips ;)

@DuoInfernaleBerlin 22 күн бұрын

I have waited fot this video...thank you

@matiETN 23 күн бұрын

great video man!!

@judejast743 19 күн бұрын

Very helpful. Thanks, mate!

@Robert44444444 26 күн бұрын

What WAS the case with multi-core Intel processors (and may still be with Apple silicon), is that where music production is concerned, high single-core clock-speed performance was more important than total core count of the processor. This was true because while a high core count MAY be able to allow your Mac running any DAW to handle a 'larger', more demanding project file, the workload of a single plug-in instantiation cannot be distributed across multiple cores. So as many users have experienced, a very cpu-intensive plug-in could halt your song-file with the dreaded processor overload dialog when the majority of cpu cores were just chillin'… because the demand of just one plug-in instantiation was more than the assigned core could handle. Since through successive iterations of Intel processors we saw that models with fewer cores generally had higher single core clock speeds, while the models with the most processor cores were clocked at lesser (slower) slower speeds. For audio/music applications, if you want to run one or several virtual synth plugins with high polyphony (for example), then you'd likely do better with a processor having fewer cores, but able to run at a higher clock speed. I've said all this because I don't have any knowledge that this radically different ARM-based SoC architecture has changed the importance of looking for high single-core clock speeds. This is important work you've done in discovering the need (for logic users at least) to focus the 'performance core' count of the processor when shopping for a Mac, but AFAIK, high single-core performance is still more important than total 'performance core' count for this kind of work.

@DavidRavenMoon 24 күн бұрын

Yes, the M2 and M3 are faster. Maybe the core of Logic isn’t that optimized yet, but ChromaGlow demonstrated that.

@TheJonHolstein 23 күн бұрын

Clock speed is irrelevant, you need to look at the performance of the core. With intel and amd, there are examples of cpus with higher clock speed and fewer cores compared to a model of the series above, and yet in single core tests, the model with more cores and lower clock speed in the higher series still has higher single core performance. Also when you are running more tracks than the core count, you really can't know that the single core performance will be the thing that overloads the cpu, as each core is running several tracks and their plugins. I have not seen a demonstration of any recent cpu, where it was obvious that higher single core performance trumps multi core performance. I have seen a lot of people claiming that. But I am very sceptical to that still beeing true, it might be something that people still belive because early multi core chips did have single core performance issues. And it might be the case for some tasks that can't utilize multi core systems, which was the case even long after the single core performance issues were dealt with.

@5urg3x 21 күн бұрын

@@TheJonHolsteinApple has some of the best single core benchmark scores in the industry

@TheJonHolstein 19 күн бұрын

@@5urg3x but that has nothing to do with my comment. Apple's CPUs has great single core performance and good multi core, especially considering the wattage. But the tests are always or usually based on the performance off all cores, and with their mix of p-cores and e-cores, it is difficult to know what kind of performance one will get, without someone actually doing both kinds of tests.

@jaredstanfield267 21 күн бұрын

Excellent video!

@Paolocampitelli 26 күн бұрын

great video, thanks for sharing.

@MrFn65 26 күн бұрын

Thanks for your video and time! It does help us Mac Music producers! Keep up the great work !!

@wmichaelf 26 күн бұрын

Great work. Thanks. I'm mainly a Cubase 13 user but dabble in Logic Pro 11.

@ansoncall6497 20 күн бұрын

There might be a good reason why the efficiency cores aren't utilized...you want them running background tasks, and do what they're good at. Logic needs the heavy lifting of the performance cores. That being said, a good compromise might be a toggle in the preferences to enable the e core utilization (hey and why not add how many are available).

@Yhuntermusic 25 күн бұрын

Love these videos! Please throw Ableton Live 12 into the hat as well (if possible) 🙏🏾

@OneEyedJackNLD 26 күн бұрын

Oh here we go! I can’t wait for the test on the hopefully coming new Mac Studio with an M3 or M4 chip. I’m running a mid 2014 MacBook Pro and been waiting for a year for this new Studio.

@notsure1135 25 күн бұрын

Mac Studio M1 base model is cheaper and likely better given the performance core count is higher. Not every daw and plug-in are utilising the e cores. Like others have said, when you upgrade the m1 you can keep it and run audiogridder.

@theodoremexis 26 күн бұрын

Hello James, great work as always! Can we have the wallpaper on the background?? Cheers!

@SchibbiSchibbi 21 күн бұрын

another great videos of yours. actually Logic 11 runs smooth on my Macbook Pro M3. I've never seen a system overload pop up, as it did all the time with my Macbook Air M1

@eds4754 26 күн бұрын

Pro Tools supposedly added support for efficiency cores - I don’t suppose you’d be able to test the difference between the previous versions and the latest?

@richertz 25 күн бұрын

Second this- if AVID can do it the really Apple should be able to as it means that logic and ablation will become the slowest of of the biggest daws

@gavmurray7398 26 күн бұрын

chromaglow uses the Neural engine. new version of Neural engine is better would be my thought

@fabiomoreira1751 25 күн бұрын

i'm still running my studio based on Imac Core i9 10cores. Waiting for the M4!

@kirkegodfrey414 10 күн бұрын

Thanks you for this … Perfect Work

@jacobhelbig 25 күн бұрын

On the ChromaGlow issue: I think it might run at least partially on the Neural Engine, which is much faster on the M2 generation than on the M1 chips.

@KlaBoi-qj8oh 22 күн бұрын

😂🤣

@AboutHouseMusic 22 күн бұрын

Your videos are highly appreciated. This gives me a good idea of which hardware configuration to go for. This whole situation with the CPU cores is a massive let down when you consider that Logic is run, maintained and developed by Apple... or is it? It would be nice to get an official statement from Apple, I don't feel like they'd be inclined to comment. At this stage in the game, the discussion should be about the utilisation of GPU cores. It definitely raises eye brows.

@Johnnyhaag79 26 күн бұрын

thx!!!

@FergalToohey 22 күн бұрын

Nice vid, James. One thing I noticed about the Chromaglow screen capture: there is significantly more economy core usage on the M1 than in the other M1 clips, or vs the M2 chromaglow clip. Could that indicate an update or something was happening in the background on the M1 during the chromaglow trials, giving the unexpected result?

@jayddd4946 15 күн бұрын

Thank you for the tests, and they are valid -- but wondering if you've tried to record enable an audio track with a few plugins, and few plugins on the master buss at the same time. There is some strangeness in how Logic has always handled this - it's very easy to get an overload because Logic forces those processes onto one core only. It's weird and not sure why this is the case, and I doubt that has changed in LP11 - but it's a very interesting and important thing to consider when considering which Mac to buy or when to upgrade. This is why I'm waiting to upgrade my M1 -- because single core performance could make the biggest difference when it comes to recording tracks while playing back a lot of existing tracks (and while keeping the buffer low to decrease the latency of live input tracks). thanks again for your videos...

@tronam 26 күн бұрын

This is by design for consistency. The E-cores are significantly weaker than the P-cores and are reserved for non-audio application/OS processing. Every time playback is started in Logic it redistributes the tracks across the cores to balance out processing, not the individual plug-ins on them. Since all P-cores are equally powerful it can freely do so without having to worry about moving a very plugin heavy track to a weaker E-core and causing an overload.

@EricGoetzMusic 26 күн бұрын

Agreed. I feel like the content creator's premise is just flawed. Using the efficiency cores for realtime audio would be a bad idea.

@meislit9217 25 күн бұрын

@@EricGoetzMusicbut third party daws like reaper are able to use e-cores for audio processing...

@darwiniandude 25 күн бұрын

it's true, but the efficiency cores are actually quite powerful. And as meislit9217 points out, other DAWs can and do use all cores. Perhaps it would require too much of a Logic rewrite, and the performance as it is, is enough. Perhaps Apple knows something we don't, and if ALL cores are maxed out, the extra heat makes the clock speed drop a llittle, and the benefits are negliable. No idea. But it's interesting for sure.

@josuastangl7140 25 күн бұрын

Maybe it is by design, but it results in less performance compared to other DAWs that are make use of the efficiency cores

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

@@EricGoetzMusic Why exactly would it be a bad idea? If almost half of my computer's chip is e-cores (e.g. 11-core M3 Pro has 5 e-cores and 6 p-cores), I would absolutely want to have the option for them to be all maxed out when I'm doing intensive tasks. My tests showed that you can get significantly more performance from a chip when a DAW can fully use the e-cores.

@sarinsahil 26 күн бұрын

Thank you! Which DAWs can utilise the M1 Max to it's fullest potential?

@KLOVOrecords 23 күн бұрын

Many thanks to you James for reviewing these detailes, it's a shame Apple doesn't care about such optimisation, when Reaper (much smaller software producer) did.

@devicefuldb5097 25 күн бұрын

I would love to know how this test would go with the M1 Ultra v. Max. Or M2 Ultra. Never mind, I see there is a vid on this already. Great reviews!

@MrMarcellus17 24 күн бұрын

Thx for testing!!! What about Avid Protools?Would be nice to get Infos!

@GoldFivee 26 күн бұрын

Could you run a test with the Ableton Live 12 and the newest Bitwig?

@ErikAnders 26 күн бұрын

M1 Max with audiogridder is crushing right now

@craighudson4382 24 күн бұрын

I can't believe they never fixed this for LP11. Interesting that on the CPU meter within logic, it is showing 12 processing threads, but on activity monitor it is obvious the performance cores are the ones doing the heavy lifting while the e-cores are not doing much to assist at all.

@truecuckoo 13 күн бұрын

What happens if you run the tests while setting the computer to battery efficiency mode?

@hizhaus 11 күн бұрын

I just opened a "real world" session randomly and looked at the CPU usage and it basically used a lot more of the efficiency cores than your example, so I'm not sure your selection of plugin doesn't matter.

@TheDude1764 24 күн бұрын

I would love to see your analysis of Ableton Live 12 on this topic.

@clesbenetti6716 25 күн бұрын

You deserve 1M+ subscribers

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

Haha thanks! Maybe someday lol

@masterflitzer Күн бұрын

04:20 I'd be interested in 10c M1 Pro/Max vs 12c M2 Pro/Max as they both have 8 performance cores while the M2 Pro/Max being clocked higher

@TheJonHolstein 23 күн бұрын

I was hoping for this test, just to be sure they had not addressed that issue. I saw no information suggesting that they had. But I still wonder if avid really has. They have had some buggy releases, so it would be interesting to see a comparison, to see if they are showing the same to be expected perprmance boost, in your test scenario. I have seen requests for ableton 12 and latest bitwig, but if they have not announced support for e-cores, I dont think they have implemented it. Apple could have, with logic, without making an announcement, but that is apple, you mever know what they announce and what is just implemented without a mention.

@JoseGRendons 26 күн бұрын

Can you please do the same test with Ableton Live 12?

@ranajoyshil 25 күн бұрын

you'd be dissapointed.

@fallenleaf24 25 күн бұрын

Better off with bitwig. It’s a better DAW but that aside it’s way better optimised.

@GG-zv9ku 25 күн бұрын

Bigwig is not a better daw. The daw you enjoy is a better daw than every other daw on the market.

@fallenleaf24 25 күн бұрын

@@GG-zv9ku that’s only true to a point.. Bitwig is better optimised, has a faster workflow. It is what Ableton was back in the day! It’s the new comer with all the improvements that the older ones fails to improve on. I have used Logic since the 90’s & I won’t be changing any time soon. Bitwig is the superior DAW.. & besides your eyes won’t bleed looking at it. Ableton is programmer art.. 0 definition it’s all homogeneous & thus strains the eyes more

@snubdawg1386 25 күн бұрын

@@fallenleaf24 can you already work with audio tracks without warping in bitwig?....tested it a year ago and it was not possible...crazy

@laserjakk3629 13 күн бұрын

Hi james. Do you think new CPUs (Qualcom Snapdragon X Elite and Intel Lunar Lake) that eliminates hyperthreads, taking as a priority single cores instead of Multi-cores, would present better results for DAWs performance in terms of more channels with more plugins?

@marksaxon 23 күн бұрын

So what does it mean when my 2020 13" MBP with quad core i7 can do the same stress test you did and running up to 146 tracks using Logic 11? Used a mono gtr track with Saturn 2 set to high quality. I even added the Townhouse Buss Compressor and Ozone 10 EQ on the master buss to boot. Are we saying I have the same performance as a Apple Silicon chip? I did let it run for about 10 mins and the fans were definitely spinning hard but it kept going. Obviously mileage will vary since I usually have a mix of plugins and some that might use more CPU.

@Mikko.......-vi7sc 17 күн бұрын

If you set laptop to low powermode the effiency cores star to work with the other cores

@semaj4818 26 күн бұрын

Can you test DAW on Mac Studio's?

@ksaavedra_Immortalbelovedmusic 26 күн бұрын

Thank you for doing these, James! I’m still running 2017 iMac Pro intel machine. Would it be worth it upgrading to a Mac Studio? Specs don’t seem that much better especially if the cores aren’t fully utilized.

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

While it's hard to gauge if such a move will benefit in your particular case, most people I know who went from intel to Apple Silicon experienced significant overall improvements. I always tell people that there's no need to upgrade their computer if it is handling their projects fine. Apple Silicon Macs have all the hype nowadays, but they are just tools.

@ksaavedra_Immortalbelovedmusic 26 күн бұрын

@@JamesZhan Thanks for the insight!

@muraah 16 күн бұрын

Have you tried leaving the processing threads at Automatic? Read somewhere that this made Logic use the efficiency cores but I don’t have a silicon Mac to test yet

@pianoplayeh 19 күн бұрын

My guess about chromaglow is that it is heavily using the neural engine, which is improved/bigger on the M2 chip, and that’s why you can get more tracks than on M1.

@tigermusichk 21 күн бұрын

May I asked where can I check the performance chips on each chip ?

@psybursonic 26 күн бұрын

Logic appears not to even distribute among the performance cores well once you make track stacks and start to sidechain. It seems to overload a single core in that case. Make two relatively cpu heavy track stacks and try side-chain one over the other (very real world) and Logic will error with a single core spiked.

@frankjenko1136 26 күн бұрын

Regarding the ChromaGlow tests: Could it be that the better performance of the Neural Engine of the newer processors is responsible for the results?

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

That's possible!

@SkeadFerdinandMusic 26 күн бұрын

Thanks for the video. Was wondering about it. Seems that Reaper and Cubase 13 are the only two that use all cores. I've just switched to Mac Mini M2 Pro 16 gig ram and 512 ssd. Have to say that I love mac but the storage is not good. If I knew what I do now, I would have gone for min 1Tb. The 16 gig ram is ok coming from 32gig. The ram was my main concern but in real world my small ssd is the biggest issue cause I've got a very fast 2tb wd ssd with a very fast enclosure but there is problems with Thunderbolt 4 dropping the external. Best solution was to buy a powered thunderbolt 4 hub but even that is not preventing the external to disconnect and I see many such problems . Big bummer for me.

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

Yeah, it's often the case that people need more storage space than they think they do, because pro apps and the OS already take up a whole bunch of space. This is why in my M1/M2 buying guide video, I recommend people to prioritize getting more storage over getting more RAM, unless they KNOW they need as much RAM as possible for loading tons of sample libraries. At the end of the day, if you have a desktop Mac, you can still expand your storage space by plugging in external drives, but you can't do that with RAM.

@BrentLeVasseur 24 күн бұрын

The biggest bottleneck for Apple M chips is ram and not the CPU. This is especially true for virtual orchestra templates for film scoring where its typical to employ hundreds of sample tracks which are memory and SSD intensive. CPU is more important for things like video editing where speed of rendering and transcoding video uses the CPU to its max.

@TrioLOLGamers 20 күн бұрын

*RAM size, not RAM Speed. It is an issue on 512gb models because that ram is slow as hell, but other RAMS are fast. Still if the ram size is low, it will use caching, but that happens on every machine. The issue is that Reverb and VST Synth weight a lot. Ableton tried to fix that with max for live. But still...

@sirsilva7079 25 күн бұрын

Kindly do the same for AMD & Intel chips on windows laptops

@vaportrails7943 21 күн бұрын

Key factors to note here - these are laptops. The efficiency cores are there to optimize for laptops. It is rumored that going forward with M4, the desktop versions like the Mac Studio are going to have fewer efficiency cores, and more performance and GPU cores. So that will change these equations significantly. Should they adjust Logic to use efficiency cores more, even if that’s not the what they’re intended for? I’m not sure. For the DAWs that use the efficiency cores more, does that impact battery life and/or thermals?

@chromeeyesdontcry 21 күн бұрын

🙏🏼

@carbonvibes 23 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing your research, very interesting results.

@benderbi 26 күн бұрын

So you're telling me (again) that I pick the right MBP when I bought the M1 Pro, am I right? 😅

@user-yl6lv6ne7z 26 күн бұрын

I wonder if this is also true with logic Pro for iPad

@mitchmcturtle6890 26 күн бұрын

Can you test the m3 cores with Ableton? I’m thinking about a m3 pro max

@mitchmcturtle6890 26 күн бұрын

Nvm looks like you already did it lol

@SunflowerFlowerEmpire 16 күн бұрын

Any grounds for class action for these abysmal findings?

@boco1951 22 күн бұрын

How does eleven do with a 2020 intel chip on a iMac ?

@D-One 26 күн бұрын

Pointing out that a benchmark is not realistic is silly, that's not it's purpose and it's near impossible to make a realistic 'project test'. keep it up James, you got the best channel on youtube on this topic!

@FransvandenBergeMuziekschuur 26 күн бұрын

Did you test midi 2.0 ?

@DojoOfCool 26 күн бұрын

Thanks for doing the testing. I really wonder why Apple has not changed this what is their reasoning, we'll probably never know,

@KLOVOrecords 23 күн бұрын

Could anybody explain or tell the reason, why the Logic Pro goes fluently on MacBook 2019 I9 on Catalina, and does not go without a lag on BigSur and more recent macOS... many thanks in advance 🙏

@marcorossi1238 17 күн бұрын

Ableton 12 video?

@mysterybro100 26 күн бұрын

Thank you for your video! I’m guessing your project and audio is on the OS drive, not on an external. As pro user I (we) always work this way….

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

I would hesitate to speak for all the pros, as pros all work differently, but yes, I run my projects and audio on the internal SSD.

@mysterybro100 26 күн бұрын

@@JamesZhan would this affect your tests?

@StratsRUs 22 күн бұрын

What's the best way to work.Keeping project and audio on a separate drive? I still get confused about how to configure it on Logic.

@mysterybro100 22 күн бұрын

@@StratsRUs you simply save your project to another drive. Your files will then stream from that location. If you use samples Logic can relocate your Logic samples for you to a “permanent” drive. Meaning you move them once. There are vids out there …..

@maurocigliuti7575 23 күн бұрын

what about single core performance? pretty sure m3 pro should have much shorter bounce times, opening heavy plugins, etc. It's weird that you only have one metric to measure 'performance' as if amount of tracks running at once is the only metric for measuring performance / user experience

@samuelbreuer 25 күн бұрын

Do you know how the plugins on one channel are distributed to the cores? I sometimes get an overload signal with what does not seem like many tracks and I wonder why. Is it possible that one channel with many plugins is causing it all by itself? Also - do you (or anyone here) know how UADx plugins compare to the average plugin use of processing power? They seem to be quite heavy on the CPU.

@samuelbreuer 25 күн бұрын

Also - THANK YOU FOR YOUR VIDEO!!

@ShapeNoise 18 күн бұрын

Does anyone know if iPad processors work the same way? Specifically regarding audio production on iPad.

@nerdpunk8922 26 күн бұрын

Test the M3 MacBook Air or Pro???? I’m still looking for a test that compares the base M3 chips with Reaper.

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

You can take a look at my M3 Pro chip testing video! There's no point testing every single chip (nor do I have the financial ability to do so, haha), because the core utilization will be the same.

@nerdpunk8922 24 күн бұрын

@@JamesZhan so I know that the M3 Pro has less performance cores and more efficiency cores but that doesn’t seem to affect Reaper as much (the DAW I use) as it does other DAWS.

@TheJonHolstein 23 күн бұрын

@@nerdpunk8922 reaper can use all cores. And all M pro chips still has the same amount of p-core or more compared to the M3 in air. The m3 non pro/non max model in the entry level mac pro is the same as in the air, it comes with a card reader and a hdmi port, but only support 1 external monitor, while the air supports 2 if the internal screen is off and you have one display adapter per usb-port. But any M3 pro/max, or m2 pro/max will outperform m3 air with reaper, but at a higher cost. This test is not intended as a real world test, so you can expect the track count to be much lower in real usage, so it doesn't tell you what you can expect, so it isn't a real life performance test, thus there it would not tell you exactly what the real life performance difference would be, so it can't really guide you in terms of determining if the price difference is too high.

@kaboozle 25 күн бұрын

Based on your earlier videos I decided to buy an M1 Max Studio instead of the newer M2 variant, saving me about €800 which I was able to spend on a thunderbolt 4 ssd raid array enclosure with ssds. My system is flying! And I have no buyer’s remorse either.

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

Great to hear! This is what my videos are all about-helping people allocate their budget wisely :)

@StaminaMC 26 күн бұрын

Commenting for the algorithm.

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

The MVP right here

@Arsshedrin 15 күн бұрын

Interesting…my intel Core i5 Mac Mini 3 GHZ 2018 with 8Gb RAM and 256 SSD does 186 tracks, exactly this test…does it mean I shouldn’t upgrade to M1 Pro MacBook Pro?..

@sjcongo 19 күн бұрын

Play a logic demo project and understand how the cpu works ;)

@fluffycritter 26 күн бұрын

I'd imagine that the efficiency cores aren't really meant to handle heavy workloads like this and so the incremental amount of performance gain they'd add might not be worthwhile for the system scheduler to make use of them. It does look like a bunch of system stuff is getting offloaded onto them, at least, otherwise the efficiency cores would be reading 0%. Also I'd expect that most plugins (especially third-party ones) would be single-threaded, which would explain the ChromaGlow discrepancy. I think ChromaGlow would also be using the neural cores on Silicon, which is also pretty uncommon for non-Apple things to make use of.

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

In my other Mac testing videos featuring DAWs that can fully make use of the e-cores, the performance gain you get from fully using e-cores is NOT "incremental." Testing data showed that it's actually quite significant-enough for users of those DAWs to be able to get a "lesser" chip while getting MORE performance out of their money compared to a more expensive chip.

@fluffycritter 24 күн бұрын

@@JamesZhan Ah, that's interesting. I'll have to watch some of your other videos on the subject.

@turtlefeet7722 25 күн бұрын

I think there a reason for this in purpose. This is no coincidence. My Mac craps out on certain Spitfire plugins. It is poorly optimized. I have a Mac Studio M2 Max.

@mattymenck 25 күн бұрын

Waiting since ages for a better core contribution. Logic's audio engine still stuck somewhere in the 90s. So bad...

@artprojectsnz 26 күн бұрын

What was the sample rate and bit depth please?

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

44.1 khz, 64-bit summing

@juddrizzo 21 күн бұрын

I’m curious, if you are still using Reaper, since in one of your other videos, you discovered that it took full use of both performance cores and efficiency cores. And… It was the only software that did that!… I believe.

@KordTaylor 26 күн бұрын

I think the test with a stock Logic plugin vs. a 3rd party plugin is the best indicator. Even if it’s “Apple Silicon Optimized” 3rd party is still outside of Apple’s control.

@JamesZhan 26 күн бұрын

I don't think that's true, though. Multiple software/plugin engineers have chimed in in my other Mac testing videos saying that the DAW what dictates if a plugin can use the e-cores. For example, Saturn 2 can take full advantage of the e-cores in REAPER. So I think the opposite is true: it's out of 3rd party plugin devs' control whether their plugins can use the e-cores while in Logic Pro.

@DavidRavenMoon 24 күн бұрын

Regardless of the number of performance cores, the M2 and M3 are more powerful than the M1. They are faster chips. Also why not try setting Logic to “Automatic” in the processor threads preference and see what that does.

@EricGoetzMusic 26 күн бұрын

This is outside my expertise, but I think Chromaglow uses specialized hardware (either an AI chip or the GPUs). Thus, it runs better on the M2, because the CPU cores are largely not used by that plugin.

@photoniccannon2117 26 күн бұрын

This means that my M2 Pro (8+4) configuration might be able to hold water with the M3 Pro (6+6) systems. That's a little bit surprising. Technically, the M3 DOES still have an advantage, as a highly CPU intensive thread or channel strip may perform a little bit better with the higher single threaded performance. In terms of numbers of tracks, they might be neck and neck (or possibly even outperformed by the M2 Pro), so I'm very curious to see if anyone has done detailed tests on this.

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

You are correct that the M2 Pro (8+4) can compete with the M3 Pro (6+6). In fact, I made a video comparing M1 Pro (10c), M2 Pro (10c) and M3 Pro (11c). Tests showed that, when a DAW can fully use ALL the cores, the M3 Pro had the best performance, but for the DAWs that can only fully use the p-cores, M1 Pro, which has the most p-cores out of those 3 chips, performed the best. This is why I make these videos-people should choose the right chip based on their main DAW.

@photoniccannon2117 25 күн бұрын

@@JamesZhan I will definitely check your videos out in this then. Thank you for doing these kinds of tests, very useful information.

@PaulCarmona 25 күн бұрын

I'm confused - Logic Pro is a heavy usage app like video editing - much more heavy workloads than normal - so I expect the performance cores to be doing all the work, the efficiency cores are pretty self-explanatory and are mostly for handling background or low level tasks from my understanding. Edit: Just realised @tronam said the same thing

@JamesZhan 25 күн бұрын

Yeah but the e-cores should be able to help for highly CPU intensive tasks, no? For DAWs that can fully make use of the e-cores, they can get much more performance out of the chip compared to the DAWs that can't. Also, for some of the M-series chips, like the 11-core M3 Pro, almost half of the cores are e-cores. I damn well want to be able to put all the cores to use when necessary.

@dougleydorite 20 күн бұрын

Logic is also calling their drum midi library, “AI”. Toontrack has been doing it for over 10 years

@berndkiltz 25 күн бұрын

Some years ago I would have laughed out loud if someone had told me he uses Cubase on a Mac. Now I use Cubase on a Mac... And yes, I have logic. But Cubase is just way more mature and feels wayyyyy snappier.

@jorgelozadamusic 24 күн бұрын

Although it's kind of disappointing that Logic Pro cannot benefit from using all cores I still don't see this as a bigger problem, I've worked entire production and mixing sessions on a simple M1 chip and haven't had any problems yet, Logic is just so well optimized that it can handle (almost) everything that you throw at it.

@audioinfinitymusic 8 күн бұрын

Its causeimg more system overload since 11!!

@5urg3x 21 күн бұрын

The plugins *can* use the E cores I think, but Apple doesn’t want them to. A plugin dev posted a Twitter thread about this a little while ago.

@JamesZhan 21 күн бұрын

Yeah I several devs have commented on my previous Mac testing videos. From what I understood, it's limited by the DAW. This is why the same plugins can use e-cores fully in REAPER but not Logic.

@philf4086 26 күн бұрын

I don't think this is an oversight on Apple's behalf. There is probably a reason for it. Is there anyone from Apple who can make a comment?

@this.is.shashwat 26 күн бұрын

While I am not from Apple, I recall Apple mentioning in their marketing that efficiency cores are mostly meant for lighter workloads like web browsing etc. So maybe they did not enable efficiency cores for logic because performance difference may not be that substantial to warrant putting this kind of load on efficiency cores, and this might prolong the life of the cpu/battery from their perspective.

@thiagocesaro 25 күн бұрын

That's why we use Reaper!

@petugrace 12 күн бұрын

i’m Glad…!

@OneEyedJackNLD 26 күн бұрын

Does anyone known if Apple is ever going to address this? I mean, didn’t Reaper utilize all of them? It’s embarrassing.

@furiobisotti8150 26 күн бұрын

I am puzzled... Why Cockos software can make a better job than Apple? Of course for Apple engineers this is not relevant. But it is for me: a new beefed up MacBookPro can cost 4000 bucks and can be less performing than a refurbished one, which is 4 years old (maybe 2000 bucks saving). This is important for people like me!