I actually kinda like how the federation has theses ups and downs of naiveté and self absorption followed by periods of war that turn them outward. It makes it feel realistic, cause those cycles are exactly what happen with great powers in history. Even the strange inconsistencies and plot holes that prove incompetence make it a bit more real. Star Trek is supposed to be humanity at its best, but in the end, we are still human.

I loved the conversation that Garak and Quark had over a glass of Root Beer.

While Federation does seem to act as holier than thou sometimes (I feel like that component definitely came from Vulcans), I would say that they aren't being insidious simply because most of the species they come in to contact to, they attempt peaceful resolutions. Federation does attempt to be the melting point, but that is the point of Federation.

It's difficult to imagine an advanced futuristic civilization that wouldn't even consider the immense threat potential of unfettered expansion considering the fact that Carl Sagan was saying the same thing in the 1970's.

It's good to see the Federation isn't perfect but striving to get there.

I know the FASA books aren’t canon, but I appreciated the information in the Federation book.

It was more of an combination of the raw power of Dominion jemhadar and changeling subversion rather than charisma that pulled worlds into the Dominion.

I agree with Quark and Garak on this issue. The federation is dark sweet evil rootbeer.

Starfleet is a space navy riding around in warships armed with anti-mater nukes, but they are totally peaceful and only exploring.

at 14:52 you can see the command f search bar with the words "in the pal" in the corner of the clip from "in the pale moon light".

The Federation is like root beer. Vile stuff, sweet, cloying. You resist it as long as you can, but you eventually try it. And you try some more. You get used to it. And eventually...you come to like it...

It's interesting when you play Stellaris and create an "Empire" that is similar in ideology to the Federation, that you make friends faster than you'd make enemies. And even among enemies, let's say in a standoff between three empires, you are the one trusted enough to build a defensive pact against the third. Creating a further imbalance. It can actually go that far that you could come into the position in which you don't need to go to any war at all. Partially because you have rstablished (a lot of) defensive pacts and also because you are never the worst threat out there, but are always a potential ally against the worst threat out there. And helping other nations always increases the affinity between both nations. And even if you meet a species of fanatical purifiers, they are usually too weak to go to war against you. Simply because they don't have any allies and you have them. Purifiers and other aggressive empires are the strongest in the early days, when there are no contracts of pacts yet, but with enough time given, an "Empire" like the Federation is almost unbeatable, as there is no one who actually wants to beat them. The worst threats at some point are purely internal. Unhappy seperatists. The irony is perfect.

Did they keep a bucket of crewman on the USS Excelsior bridge that had a tendency to spill its contents all over the floor when the ship was struck by a torpedo? 10:10

You said something that got me thinking. What if the changling virus wasn't intended to kill them. But to give starfleet a chance to fight the evil force and further increase its influence by showing its both flawed and willing to admit that while fighting to fix it.

Starfleet is that guy in D&D who minmaxes for persuasion to control all the other players.

"The Burn" was a stupid plot designed to reset the Star Trek universe to fit it into Discovery. The idea that dilithium was "drying up" when we had a star trek movie showing that dilithium could be "recharged", and how they couldn't develop a new core when an entire subplot to how Romulan 24th century ships worked off of a Quantum Singularity instead of a dilithiium antimatter core just goes to show how fragmented and ignorant STD writers are from the rest of Star Trek when they want to create Star Trek in their own image.

I'm really loving these "big picture" looks at SF.

Really love this long form format you have been doing recently, thank you very much for the excellent content!

Great video as always Lore. Keep up the good work.

Keep up the good work. Videos like this are the reason I joined your Patreon. 😊

Hi everyone! I'm here with free Federation replicators. Remember, the FEDERATION.

I kind of wish you would cover the lore and do analysis of sg-1.

the sad part is the federation and alpha quadrant allies only faced a dominion expeditionary force.... it was not their whole fleet...

This is a fairly even handed look at Federation Diplomacy. Good one

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

The Federation and Starfleet should be compared to other major powers in Trek - not to some utopian ideal. As flawed as the Federation is/was/will be, would you rather live under the rule of the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Borg, Dominion if the Federation wasnt there to keep them in check? Pass the ROOT BEER.

ultimate victory Dominion sits on federation council as yet another conquered territory

If you've ever played the boardgame "Star Trek:Ascendancy" The Federation is not allowed to take a planet by force, and has an easier time gaining planets through "Hegemony"(ambassadorship).

Remember the scene from Douche Space 9 (I have a love/hate relationship what that show) where Quark described the Federation/humans as root beer- too sweet but you can't help but like them.

Really enjoy your videos

That sponsored content ad was honestly a crack up

Surprised you didn't use the Quark and Garak root beer convo.

DARMOK AND JALLAD IN TINAGRA!!!

As soon as we hit the disco/picard era my brain turns off

I love your content, but I wish you'd ignore all the Kurtzman bull that doesn't really fit. Don't try to make it make sense when it really doesn't. You're just wasting your time and lowering the quality of your content.

Cool video!

Starfleet is an idealized version of the US. It has te same ideals and the same fundamental flaws. The only way it can prosper is when it is losing. By that I mean that any representation where they are in power will show them inevitably corrupt, as most of their ideals stem from confrontation to adversity. Without adversity, there is nothing but stagnation in their mind, and the US seems to see adversity as necessarilly something militaristic. "The burn" seems to change this perspective to an environnemental one (idk) but in the end it's all about being the underdog. If the Federation isn't the underdog, if it cannot be compared positively to its adversaries, if it cannot claim to be holding on to nobleness in spite of the temptation of being ruthless, then it is nothing but a stalemate.

Data: captain the planet will explode in 4.0 hours. Picard: do they have warp drive? Data: No sir. They are undeveloped. Picard: LET THEM DIE

A wonderful breakdown.

The two issues that I see from this are the Federation wasn't a monolith yet made its Starfleet members treat it as such but also it wasn't a moral organization it was one that relied on what was best for business which ultimately came back to haunt them more times than we can can count. As a result it was doomed to fail, it took a few centuries but it failed in the end.

Picard isn't canon. It's Anti-Fan fiction.

Is it insidious? Yes.

I can't remember but i think it was TNG, it might have been Q that said unlike the Federation the Borg are honest about who they are.

There's another side to this conversation, and that's what it was like being a subject world to the Klingons or Romulans. It of course doesn't seem great to be a subject in an Imperial regime, but in all the fighting and wars that the Klingons are involved in, they don't seem to be using their subject peoples as cannon fodder. Which has got to be a plus, right?

When you are a galaxy spanning empire uh I mean alliance and you meet a society that has just begun to travel in space, you tend to have the advantage.

I like how the answer could also have just been. "Yes".

9:43 So does anyone else think the old guy in the black robe looks like the old sage in the temple of time from zelda ocarina of time? I feel like he should be telling link how to defeat gannon! LMAO

Complacency is an extension of sloth; the Federation views itself above the need for violence, pride feeding into sloth, which is a grave mistake for any state. It is a curse that befalls any great civilisation and inevitably causes a downfall. It is noble to say violence never solves anything but the fact of the matter is that it is completely false. The line we draw for acceptable behaviour, however benign, will never be objective, so we must use reason to draw the line and remain vigilant. Unlike Vulcan, humanity and other cultures are not enlightened, they know themselves completely, they know their hearts, minds, and bodies, but even the Vulcans know that their philosophy is not absolute and they can make exceptions. Surak learned that logic is the heart of every Vulcan and centred his philosophy around their brand of logic, in this is self-disciplining and liberating for Vulcans. Humans do not have that, and it is something we need to look for. Edit: the issue is that you cannot use rationality or logic to create institutions or morals. Communist and socialist societies tried to do this and engineer their society against human nature, it can work for a time but any form of indoctrination can be broken because indoctrination itself is imperfect and will always have a margin for error, and that small margin will be all it takes to break a system entirely as it did with the socialist and communist countries. The point here is that you cannot use rationality or logic to engineer human behaviour successfully, you have to bend to the bias of humanity in some way and you have to be honest about what that is; humans are selfish, their first concern is themselves, but when the self is satisfied they can place others ahead of themselves, you need institutions that promise everything a human needs and rituals to earn them. Marriage is an example, it is the promise of a mate and reproduction and exclusivity that tames the need for all within an institution and the prerequisites for earning a mate are some degree of success and excellence; it is completely irrational, but it does the job to civilise man with one point. Our civilisations were made possible because of traditions that tamed human instinct, things that are inherently biased were tamed by biased institutions. Even embracing logic was something inherently Vulcan, Surak obeyed this calling and took it as far as he could to create his philosophy that was as true to the Vulcan heart as it possibly could, and this is why it worked, it was 'logical' in an ironic, borderline paradoxical way.

14:49 - I see Chrome's "In the pal" search in the top-right corner

And a short time after the Dominion War, the Gorn had perceived it was their time to take back Cestus III. Seeing as they were absent in the whole war to begin with.

The Starfleet Diplomatic Corps moves in say after the Enterprise moves on did the real work

18:05 what scene is this?

The emojam shameless plug is priceless

the thumbnail is what happened when Janeway gave into the evil soul eating alien thing in that voyager episode.

Uuuuh Anson mount is so good as pike, and he did say it best that is the ideal they are striving for!

From what you've discussed, it seems that Starfleet/the Federation falls into what I call 'innocent hubris'. I mean hubris in the classic Greek / Athenian sense. Hubris as 'over-reaching'--extending too far, grabbing too much even if it looks like a good idea. And what's worse is that this hubris (at first) appears innocent. "But, our way IS the best way." Or, "why should we deny ourselves good things?" For this definition of hubris, the counter is self-denial. "Nothing too much". It's good that Starfleet does get knocked down a peg, but the lesson in humility ebbs and flows with each generation.

*trouble in paradise* Federation: we have to commit a war

Star Fleet and the Federation is a Culture.

I mean, it is a TV show from the 90s that was experimenting with merging episodic story telling with serial storyline, but for funzies: The puppet masters are the Cardasians and the Federation and coming off of the end of the Cold-War, the allegory is US market manipulation in the post-Cold War global south. We'll help, but only so much, we would really like exclusive control of that worm hole so we will give a loan, but only if you focus on argrobusiness and you will never pay that loan off.

Do us trekkies of favor do not mention discovery it is the worst show ever broadcast for Star Trek!

The Federation is like root beer...its insidious.

@16:18 What about the Delta Quadrant? 🤔

If the federation is about truth, liberty and peace, what’s the issue? You run into assholes in space, and they don’t like it because their alien culture dictates they need to be assholes? That seems like a them problem when you come in peace. Given the external pressures against the Fed and internal complexity of its great diversity, it’s amazing it has lasted so long. It deserves praise for such an achievement of diversity and unity, and maintaining a unifying culture. It’s imperfections are inevitable when faced with hard times, I’d give them a break.

Insidious? Well, you could say that Starfleet and Root Beer have something in common.

they brought rootbeer to all the conferences

Terrance ignoring PD full throttle ATM.

Given your video titles I have to ask, do you like Star Trek?

that sponserd segment is amazing lol

Someone's been drinking root beer.

Weren't the Borg created as a mirror of the Federation?

15:59 WTF was the Dominion firing at!? It certainly was not the Defiant.

Pike sums it up: "Starfleet is a promise. I give my life for you, you give your life for me. no one is left behind." That is literally the antithesis to the lesson a captain is supposed to learn in the kobiyashi maru test, which is that there will always come a time when no matter what you do, you will fail. The belief of self sacrifice to save the weak and save every last man as policy is stupid and self destructive for a civilization. Sometimes you must leave people behind, you must throw people under the bus, or even lie, cheat, steal, deceive or even commit acts of unspeakable evil because it ultimately means your survival over another who would destroy you and not think twice on it. And that is ultimately why the federation is doomed to extinction either in totality or through the death of their ideals into the philosophy of authoritarian conquest just like all the other major galactic powers eventually did. Proof of this is found in nearly all of the other long lived advanced races in the galaxy, the klingons, romulans, cardassians, ferengi the borg and so on. They mostly started peaceful and ultimately all settled on authoritarian conquest and self interest as this is the only stable societal plane all sentient races ultimately evolve to. the only time when altuism worked in the galaxy was when the first sentient race evolved and discovered it was alone, with no threats to its existence and no one to challenge their ideals, this race(in theory) pursued true exploration and peaceful ideals. That is the only reality where the federations ideals as written would work....but not in modern times where the weak are consumed by the strong and the strong expand their influence. The prime directive and the idea of galactic equality is the federations most damning trait, so much so that even kirk figured this out in the undiscovered country when asked to open dialogue with the klingons. Ultiamtely the plot demanded a peaceful outcome, but the exact opposite could have happened, kirk at that moment in his anger towards spock, finally realized that the federations ideals represented by spock, were flat out wrong, and always would be. right up until their near annihilation a millennia later. In conclusion, Pike like the federation is a deluded, self destructive engine of chaos happily throwing the galaxy into its meat grinder in a quest to homogenize it all into an easily consumed formless paste.

I kinda expected to see the conversation between Garek and Quark here

Is it any wonder the Star Fleet Captains so often find a planet and set up their own kingdoms?

If you are committed to using non-violent means of persuasion to get other groups to join your civilization up to and including offering them things they want or need, can it be considered insidious? What would be an example of a non-insidious form of peaceful expansion look like?

The funny thing about the Maquis and DS9 and everything, it's all faith. DS9 is about faith and war overall, how they affect things, but all kinds. Faith to a cause, to a god, a government, an ideal. Maybe the future of Earth isn't overly focused on religion but it is focused on faith in humanity and changing the world for the better. And Necheyev straight up acts like a preacher at a pride parade about the Maquis for good reason: they lost faith. The federation treated them like a misbehaving teenager talking about satan, basically exiled them. The Federation is a net good thing but it's still an ideal with faults

A couple of pronunciation helps for words I've heard in your excellent videos: (1) ARMistice (not armIStice) (2) PREvalent (not preVAlent)

Whenever i hear a trekkie say the word "vessels" I think of it in Chekov's voice.

diplomatic corps would make a better backdrop for a trek based comedy

Does any media address what happens if private individuals achieve warp, apart from a world government? I have to imagine that there are societies that are more "individualistic" that the usual one-world goverments we often see...

You got the Garak quote but not the root beer scene? Come on man!

14:49 in the pal 1/1

Question for you. What is-your thoughts on the episode Q Who. And the Borgs ability to regenerate so quickly while in warp? Too begin with they dont or won't regenerate up until each ship goes to warp. Is it plot or did the Borg need tbat long to analyze the Enterprise abilities?

would the federation join the galactic senate in star wars?

Did anyone else come away from this feeling like they watched the same video twice in one week?

Irregardless isn't a word. Even of it were, it's meaning (from looking at the structure of similar "words"), would be "not regardless".

It's root beer... Eeew it is so cloyingly sweet... If you have it enough, you will like it...

Love all Trek but the Federation does have flawed logic at times.

Lore would simply arrive & make demands. If they were not met 'photon torpedoes away !'. Compliance or annihilation, no in between.

16:57 is that a Star Trek cartoon?

While planets and presumably individuals are perfectly free to leave the Federation whenever they want the price is no doubt too high.

The Federation needs the Enclave

Irregardless isn't a word. It's only regardless

I think the changeling virus taught to the Dominion of valuable lesson don't push the pink skins to the thin ice

TELLERITES - The Other White Meat

Please don' use or reference Picard or STD. Both are productions by people who have no clue what Star Trek is or it's history.

Quark summed it up best.... Starfleet is like root beer 🍺 😉

sooner or later the borg and dominion will fight. im sideing with the borg.

The federation assimilates better than the borg

Does EVERYTHING have to be a deconstruction? Does everything good have to be torn down?