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Was Starfleet a Diverse Organization or Ethnocentric?

  Рет қаралды 19,169

Lore Reloaded

Lore Reloaded

3 жыл бұрын

Yea, Guess we're gonna discuss it..
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Пікірлер: 375
@DragoonMS
@DragoonMS 3 жыл бұрын
Your brief clip at 0:30 is incorrectly labeled "Star Trek V: Undiscovered Country", when it should be "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country". (Star Trek V was "The Final Frontier")
@leonielson7138
@leonielson7138 3 жыл бұрын
My theory is that 'The Final Frontier' was something Kirk dreamed up while in the Nexus.
@jasonw3414
@jasonw3414 3 жыл бұрын
he just did what we all wish we could-forgot the final frontier existed!
@prometheus2268
@prometheus2268 2 жыл бұрын
Not a significant gaffe though. Doubtful casual passerby would have noticed. Plus, that's about the only way star trek v would ever get a serious mention any way......
@dajonaneisnoah8714
@dajonaneisnoah8714 3 жыл бұрын
An example that supports this video: in TOS episode The Immunity Syndrome, the starship *Intrepid* is lost with all hands in the middle of sending a distress signal. When contact was lost, Spock sensed the psychic shock of the "all-Vulcan" crew dying en masse.
@STho205
@STho205 3 жыл бұрын
That was the 1st revision in what Starfleet was. In the first two seasons starfleet was humans only. Journey to Babel dialog indicated that each planet/star empire has fewer own fleet (like NATO), with an arms merchant selling them stuff. Thus the marauder's intent to cause constant distrust in the Federation. In season 1, episodes 1-13 there was no Federation. They were United Earth Alliance... Spock was there because he was mingo and acted much like the British guest officer to the USAF in Dr Stangelove. Spock was an oddity on a starship. USS was standing for United Space Ship, yeah really. Otherwise it would USF or UFS... "Starship" was originally a class of ship that Enterprise was. It even says that in every episode on the bulkhead build plaque by the turbolift. Constitution Class got traction in the 70s after plastic model company put it in their instruction sheet.
@AncestorEmpire1
@AncestorEmpire1 3 жыл бұрын
Klingon: Vulcans are puppets of the federation. Enterprise series: you sure about that?
@hellacoorinna9995
@hellacoorinna9995 3 жыл бұрын
FltAdm Archer (Ret.) "Imma boutta knock you on yer ass."
@hellfish2309
@hellfish2309 3 жыл бұрын
If you think that vulcan hand salute is hard, just you wait til it’s up your rectum...
@subraxas
@subraxas 3 жыл бұрын
LOTS of things can change within a single century.
@AncestorEmpire1
@AncestorEmpire1 3 жыл бұрын
@@subraxas don’t tell Twitter that, their internal racism might cause their brains to explode outward + 1 Scanner reference
@dragonsword7370
@dragonsword7370 3 жыл бұрын
@@hellfish2309 "it's called the 'spocker'."
@firekram
@firekram 3 жыл бұрын
Most non-human members of Star Fleet try to avoid getting too close the senior staff, it dramatically increases your odds of becoming the focus of an episode.
@marsar1775
@marsar1775 3 жыл бұрын
I would do the same to be fair. I am quite allergic to a new hole in my head
@Locutus
@Locutus 3 жыл бұрын
Starfleet, not Star Fleet.
@firekram
@firekram 3 жыл бұрын
@@Locutus makes sense to me a 'Star Fleet' would be a Fleet of stars while 'Starfleet' is the Fleet in the stars
@_natsura
@_natsura 3 жыл бұрын
@@marsar1775 I am just allergic to death...
@fastertrackcreative
@fastertrackcreative 3 жыл бұрын
Why do you think minor crew in TNG rarely speak when on the bridge?
@egrudasill1
@egrudasill1 3 жыл бұрын
According to ST:TOS there are absolutely environmental considerations at play. Vulcans prefer it hot, Andorians prefer it cold, and Tellurites prefer it damp and dark.
@TheKnizzine
@TheKnizzine 3 жыл бұрын
Just one more reason Andorains are cooler than Vulcans.
@Shinyspddmn
@Shinyspddmn 3 жыл бұрын
Relations between Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites are also not exactly what you'd call friendly, Humans were the only race that all 3 were on somewhat positive terms with when the Federation was founded.
@sulphurous2656
@sulphurous2656 3 жыл бұрын
Makes sense as another reason why different species would naturally gravitate towards serving amongst their own crews overall.
@anlumo1
@anlumo1 3 жыл бұрын
The human stench is also nearly unbearable for Vulcans.
@MWD1234567
@MWD1234567 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheKnizzine Nice pun
@charleszp938
@charleszp938 3 жыл бұрын
Because Starfleet hq is on Earth, a lot of who we see are human federation citizens. We know ships are usually species-specific, because alien crewmen have specific preferred climates. Different homeworlds must have their own versions of Starfleet academy. Let's say, on Andor, the academy takes in species who prefer colder climates. This is my head canon, but the real reason is budget, as always.
@HappyBeezerStudios
@HappyBeezerStudios Жыл бұрын
We obviously have a human-centric view as we are humans. Who knows how decentralized Starfleet is. After all, usually the Enterprise is the only ship close enough to Earth when something goes wrong...
@carlosbot01
@carlosbot01 3 жыл бұрын
One: Wesley took his Starfleet evaluation on Relva VII. Relva VII is an outpost of the Federation meaning that even in the outer reaches of the Federation, people could still have access to Starfleet. This idea that people on the outer periphery of the Federation are disadvantaged is weak. That's like saying people in Samoa are disadvantaged because they are separated by an ocean. The fact that an outpost host venues where people can have access to joining Starfleet. Two: The terminology of things like Starfleet itself. Remember when nation building you dont want to create the idea of placing any people or place above anyone. When merging the Space branches of Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar you gotta look at what they where called before. Vulcan High Command, Andorian Imperial Fleet, etc. Suddenly Starfleet doesnt seem so bad. More like picking the least threatening sounding name. Three: The placement of the Capitol. Remember that Vulcan, Tellar, Andoria had long and complicated relationships before humans came into the scene. Im sure the Andorians would not appreciate taking edicts from a Vulcan based government. Imagine Americans wrapping their minds around a Beijing-based world government. Im sure the placement of Earth as its capitol was a compromise between all the founding races. Kinda like how Paris is always picked as a meeting place for diplomats of warring nations to discuss peace, hence the million Treaty of Paris through out history. Still a fun entertaining video as always. Keep up the good work :)
@00Klingon
@00Klingon 3 жыл бұрын
I've often wished there were more Andorian starfleet officers throughout all the series. Especially after the awesome portrayal of them in Enterprise I now realize it was a seriously missed opportunity.
@whirledpeaz5758
@whirledpeaz5758 3 жыл бұрын
In STO an Andorian is Captain of Enterprise - F
@mrbojangles8133
@mrbojangles8133 3 жыл бұрын
didn't see many Tellarites either
@dylanlewis5113
@dylanlewis5113 3 жыл бұрын
I'm hoping that an Andorian shows up in Lower Decks, preferably voiced by Jeffery Combs.
@panickedpaladin3966
@panickedpaladin3966 Жыл бұрын
Hemmer is definitely my favorite character in Strange New Worlds. So, naturally....
@JorTanos
@JorTanos 3 жыл бұрын
Re: Earth Bases They could be pre-Federation estsblishments dating from the end of the Earth-Romulan war. Part of the Federation now, but just what they're known as.
@Windrose86
@Windrose86 3 жыл бұрын
Yup... said the same thing...
@angryengine9616
@angryengine9616 3 жыл бұрын
Or it could be that the show written in the 60s didn't anticipate a legacy. Can't fit everything into lore.
@JorTanos
@JorTanos 3 жыл бұрын
@@angryengine9616 And yet this is something that one easily can.
@ixiahj
@ixiahj 3 жыл бұрын
That clip with Sisko and that Vulcan captain was not a fair example. Those two hate each other's guts since forever. I forgot his name but that Vulcan finds pleasure in antagonizing Sisko since their training days in the academy.
@Michael-hb4wc
@Michael-hb4wc 3 жыл бұрын
The producers could invite cosplayers to serve as extras in shows and movies. How fun would that be? 😀😀😀
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
Unions would make that petty tough.. but that would be cool
@antwan1357
@antwan1357 3 жыл бұрын
Their are people who dedicate their lives to being extras in film and they don't focus on the theme of any particular show money beats out volunteers. Plus with animation they can just well you know animate them.
@alistairgrey5089
@alistairgrey5089 3 жыл бұрын
@@LoreReloaded just think of how Star Wars does it with the fan led 501st. It can be done but the logistics are a bit more difficult.
@leonielson7138
@leonielson7138 3 жыл бұрын
@@LoreReloaded As long as they don't have speaking lines, they don't have to join the Screen Actor's Guild.
@BrotherMag
@BrotherMag 3 жыл бұрын
Why not? It was done with the mandalorian season 1. It's doable.
@friskyjesus
@friskyjesus 3 жыл бұрын
I always looked at it this way: the core member species of the UFP seemed to gravitate towards different fields. Humans were keen on exploration. Vulcans were drawn to the sciences. Tellarites were adept at engineering and had greater understanding of resource production. Andorians were more tactically and battle-minded. As such, each species would be found more prevalent in certain areas. Humans were found more often exploring the galaxy. Vulcans were usually in science fields such as the Federation Science Academy and led research planet-side. Tellarites would get their hands dirty in shipyards and mining colonies. Andorians would spend their time at Starfleet Tactical Academy and working in Advanced Weapons Research labs. That’s not to say that all members of those races would specialize. Rather, they leaned more into specific areas in which their cultures shared common interest. Imagine an episode of TNG era Trek wherein our hero ship visits a shipyard for repairs and the crew of that shipyard is predominantly Tellarites, or a mining facility where we find the same scenario. Imagine an incredibly rare particle is discovered in a nebula and our hero ship requests help studying it, and a Vulcan science ship answers the call. Imagine the threat of war with a new species looms and our heroes are met by an Andorian delegation that discusses best combat strategies for dealing with this new threat. It’s not a perfect analogy, but it could help explain why we don’t always see an abundance of different species of officers.
@LanMandragon1720
@LanMandragon1720 3 жыл бұрын
I always figured the Andotians make up the majority of Starfleet ground forces.
@sundoga4961
@sundoga4961 3 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the TOS episode, "The Immunity Syndrome". The first ship to encounter the single-celled organism was an all-Vulcan starfleet ship.
@themodernmusketeer877
@themodernmusketeer877 3 жыл бұрын
I think there is actually some correlation between the races in Star Trek and the various human cultures. Let's take New York city for example. It has been dividend into different neighborhoods like Chinatown and little Italy for over 100 years. This is because people gravitate towards and feel more comfortable around others with similar traits and cultures
@ganykaliya7811
@ganykaliya7811 3 жыл бұрын
We do know of at least two starships in Starfleet crewed entirely by Vulcans the Constitution class USS Intrepid and the Nebula class USS T'Kumbra.
@jaspr1999
@jaspr1999 3 жыл бұрын
One of my favorite quotes from Take Me Out to the Holosuite is, "Did I forget my spots today?!" In response to the Vulcan antagonist. I know it isn't the most popular episode, but it's one of my favorites. To me, it shows true cohesiveness by the end. The exact opposite way to achieve the same result as AR- where Nog loses his leg.
@samuelhemmings1414
@samuelhemmings1414 3 жыл бұрын
It's a great episode if only for Worf's "Death to the opposition!"
@jaspr1999
@jaspr1999 3 жыл бұрын
@@samuelhemmings1414 - Man! Ain't that the truth!!! Were I the opposition, I would be intimidated by Worf saying that!
@pauljackson3491
@pauljackson3491 3 жыл бұрын
That's one of my favs too. Especially since it is in the middle of a war and they just forget everything for a while.
@Bitchslapper316
@Bitchslapper316 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly I wouldn't look to deep into TOS for the lore, they were still in the begining stages of world building and often contradicted themselves. A lot of stuff they introduced was just thrown out later. An example is the Romulans didn't have warp drive.
@dominicvucic8654
@dominicvucic8654 3 жыл бұрын
It always annoyes me that we never saw a lot of andorians especially during the dominion war. The andorians are a militant faction in the federation it would make sense that there would be andorian foot soldiers or admirals and generals commanding the war
@HappyBeezerStudios
@HappyBeezerStudios Жыл бұрын
Just the idea of Worf commanding Sisko's pimp hand agains the Jem'hadar, only to be flanked by some andorian flotilla. Yes, having Sisko cruise around with some klingon BoPs was fun, but maybe show the individual strengths of the member species a bit more. Vulcans doing strategic projections, Andorians commanding attack wings, etc
@leejohnstone2285
@leejohnstone2285 3 жыл бұрын
Watching the TNG episode "Rightful heir" reminded me of First Contact. Federation history books describes Zehrane Cochrane as this great visionary and a great scientist etc. We learn in First Contact the truth is rather different. Now take how Klingon history books describes Kahless " he defeated 500 warriors to win the love of Lady Lurska" seriously Kahless defeated 500 warriors single handed!
@DragoonMS
@DragoonMS 3 жыл бұрын
Thinking back to that ToS episode with Zefram Cochrane and that alien chick...uhhh...methinks even in the 23rd century, Federation history texts ain't know what they were talkin' about. 😏😏😏
@rvaughan74
@rvaughan74 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah Kahless definitely had a 500 kill count in that battle, he just keeps quiet about how he bombed a bridge and 490 Klingons fell to their deaths and only 10 saw his Bat'leth. Boom Kahless killed 500 to win Lady Lurska's love.
@leejohnstone2285
@leejohnstone2285 3 жыл бұрын
@@rvaughan74 The Excaliban scrolls tell a different account of Kahless became the greatest warrior in Klingon history. Course the excaliban scrolls are forbidden. Wonder why?
@gamer24d
@gamer24d 3 жыл бұрын
Imagine being a human officer in a all Vulcan ship
@pauljackson3491
@pauljackson3491 3 жыл бұрын
There was that episode of TNG where Riker was on an exchange on a Klingon's ship
@user-yw1hn7pt4y
@user-yw1hn7pt4y 3 жыл бұрын
The thing is, that you wouldn't need to. There are enough human starfleet ships for all humans in starfleet. The same can't be said about all other species.
@JoaoPedro-gc8mw
@JoaoPedro-gc8mw 3 жыл бұрын
Azetbur: "In alien" "Human rights" Me: Ok, let's discuss linguistics now 🤦‍♂️
@DavBotsArcade
@DavBotsArcade 3 жыл бұрын
Watching ds9 last night I realized Odo infected that other lost changeling with that virus and he left with no way of getting a cure to him.
@ralphpal
@ralphpal 3 жыл бұрын
I thought of that also Just think what he was going through Dying without knowing why
@shinigamimiroku3723
@shinigamimiroku3723 3 жыл бұрын
As far as in-universe explanations go, that's kind of what I've thought as well. We've seen instances of Vulcan-primary Starfleet vessels, so it wouldn't surprise me if other ships were a majority of any one of the UFP's other species-groups.
@OllamhDrab
@OllamhDrab 3 жыл бұрын
I've always assumed there were a bunch of ships with crews from other member worlds out there all along and let the fact we don't see or hear abotu em much is really about real-world reasons like budgets and authors wanting to give Federation ships familiar-sounding names. (And in-universe it seems a lot of the founding member worlds have their own space or military services, like the Andorian Guard and the Vulcan Science Council and whatever the Tellarites most like to do. Since Starfleet's essentially all Earth is invested in that way, it stands to reason they don't have so many personnel drawn off into other services.) Meanwhile I can see Earth and maybe some of their longer-settled colonies being kind of boring for a lot of adventuresome types, so tht could mean *lots* of Humans signing up.
@shinigamimiroku3723
@shinigamimiroku3723 3 жыл бұрын
@@OllamhDrab Agreed, especially on the last point. That seems to be an especially common trope; if you're familiar with Mass Effect, one of your first squadmates is from Eden Prime, a remote colony-world that is mostly farming, and he explains that one of the reasons he joined the SA was because he found the thought of military service more exciting than life on a farm.
@mirafeder7992
@mirafeder7992 3 жыл бұрын
Damn... it wouldn't surprise me if in the end-2360s early-2370s many andorians were like: "Starfleet builds military ships? Heck I'm in!" And therefore it appears more than plausible to maybe even have some andorian-centric combat wings in the dominion war
@OllamhDrab
@OllamhDrab 3 жыл бұрын
@@mirafeder7992 (My headcanon assumption there is that the Andorian Guard was holding down familiar ground and trying to deny the Dominion access to the home sectors and all that former Andorian Empire territory. I also tend to assume there's relatively few alien ship *names* in Starfleet cause those species are still *using* their traditional ship names for their own fleets. )
@leonielson7138
@leonielson7138 3 жыл бұрын
I couldn't see Vulcans and Andorians working together on the same ship comfortably, given that Vulcans come from a hot, arid planet, while Andorians come from a cold, humid planet. You might see either or both serving on a ship alongside humans, but for them it's going to be a hardship-cruise, as the only place they'll feel physically comfortable is in their quarters.
@HappyBeezerStudios
@HappyBeezerStudios Жыл бұрын
Put the Vulcans together with humans from the tropics and the Andorians with humans from the polar regions.
@dboymax1
@dboymax1 3 жыл бұрын
I wish we could see more of the non humanoid species in Starfleet. If I remember correctly there were even Horta in Starfleet in various media...
@1monki
@1monki 3 жыл бұрын
The animated series in the 70s had more alien Starfleet characters because they didn't have the make-up issues of a live-action series
@UGNAvalon
@UGNAvalon 3 жыл бұрын
Here’s hoping for Lower Decks Season 2!
@AsbestosMuffins
@AsbestosMuffins 3 жыл бұрын
lets not forget the sentient dolphins on the galaxy class ships, they have rights too!
@peco0012
@peco0012 3 жыл бұрын
I think that most ships will have more of a mix of species, but some will still have a majority species on board. The one’s we see just have a majority human crew most of the time. And taking into consideration that many worlds have different atmospheres and gravity it would make sense to adapt certain ships to those requirements if a ship has most of its crew consisting of those species. But I guess that would bar some from serving on those ships...
@OllamhDrab
@OllamhDrab 3 жыл бұрын
(Well, one simpler thing about the Neutral zone bases: a simple matter of ...they were named that before the Federation was founded and they kept the names? TOS era seemed to have a few of those holdovers popping up here and there.
@barkasz6066
@barkasz6066 3 жыл бұрын
It's funny how for most of TOS Season 1 the Federation simply did not exist yet in the lore. It is ALWAYS "Earth ship" "Earth outpost" "Earth colony".
@OllamhDrab
@OllamhDrab 3 жыл бұрын
@@barkasz6066 There is of course the simple fact that they hadn't worked everything out in the writing that early in Trek history as a show... Basically I take an 'All the continuity that fits' attitude about things like that. (Like at one point Kirk refers to representing the 'United Earth Space Probe Agency' he's in a situation where he seems to be bluffing/withholding information for whatever reason.)
@themodernmusketeer877
@themodernmusketeer877 3 жыл бұрын
In enterprise starfleet barely knew that the romulans existed
@NitpickingNerd
@NitpickingNerd 3 жыл бұрын
I explained this on my channel a few days ago with some in universe theories
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
I often steal from you.. obviously!
@subraxas
@subraxas 3 жыл бұрын
It is all because of the machinations of the mysterious alien species called Ti'Vi'Bah-Djett. :-)
@Bitchslapper316
@Bitchslapper316 3 жыл бұрын
@@LoreReloaded Your poll for tomorrow should be: Who do I steal my next video topic from? Nitpickingnerd Ketwolski Jessie Gender Certifiably ingame Midnights edge
@zealotmaster1
@zealotmaster1 3 жыл бұрын
humans: lets go see whats out there older races: yeah you go see whats out there make friends and send us all the info/tech you find out there humans: but what if we find some hostiles ? older races: we got your back wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaay back
@haberak3310
@haberak3310 3 жыл бұрын
The idea of different species operating homogenously or near-homogenously, does make sense as, even ignoring cultural issues, you have to consider physiological issues. Some species are adapted to higher or lower gravity, some species are adapted for cooler or warmer environments, some will have been adapted for different atmospheric concentration or makeup. Even if not deadly or even dangerous, these differences could be uncomfortable enough so that you'd want to serve on vessel handled by those similarly adapted.
@peregry
@peregry 3 жыл бұрын
I mean, this is very much the case with just the founding four members. Humans are from, let's call it, a Temperate Ocean World, with high end extremes, but overall we prefer a middle range of climates and come from a planet that is mostly water. We also have Iron based blood and a Nitrogen/Oxygen balance of ~80/20. Vulcans, meanwhile, are from a Desert World. This implies they likely are adapted to higher average temperatures than humans, lower humidity than is ideal for humans and potentially a lower oxygen level than humans. Oh, and copper based blood, which means their body chemistry is fairly different and likely requires different food. Andorians, on the other hand, are from an Artic Moon. This implies COLDER temperatures and again, lower humidity comfort than humans though probably similar oxygen requirements. Oh, and given their blood is blue, likely cobalt based blood which again throws body chemistry all over the place and requires different food. So just on temperature alone you cannot really create an environment that is comfortable for these three species to work in. For Vulcans, everyone else keeps their ships to cold (likely debilitatingly cold in the case of Andorians), meanwhile Andorian ships likely keep things plain to hot. Human ships are ridiculously humid for the other two. Oh, and the more diverse you get your ship, the more different kinds of food you need to bring along (though by TNG this is no longer an issue with Replicators), but also consider MEDICAL STAFF. If you have a ship that is all one species, you can make due generally with a medical staff that focuses on that single species. Meanwhile the more you mix the crews up, the more specialists you need for every single race, greatly increasing the size of your medical staff. Yeah... so, from a simple physiological perspective, since species crewed ships makes the most sense, especially in the 23rd century and while by the 24th some of the reasons for it are reduced, by that point it may well have become quasi-institutionalized...
@BrianTaylor-AlwaysInTao
@BrianTaylor-AlwaysInTao 3 жыл бұрын
Starfleet was mostly Earth based and predates the UFP by about 30 years - at least according to Enterprise
@afoolandhismoneychannel
@afoolandhismoneychannel 3 жыл бұрын
Regardless, I want an Andorian girlfriend. 💙
@funzjag
@funzjag 3 жыл бұрын
The things that they can do with those antennas.........😛
@rommdan2716
@rommdan2716 3 жыл бұрын
Well, You see, the suits and makeup were expensive back then.
@ravingsofa...6
@ravingsofa...6 3 жыл бұрын
I always wondered how they got the extras to fit into Star Fleet uniforms so well. Main cast would obviously have theirs tailored. Highly unlikely that one-off background characters would too but yet theyre skin tight and perfect length like the main crew.
@brokeneyes6615
@brokeneyes6615 3 жыл бұрын
That’s relatively simple, casting calls goes out for background extras with XY and Z body shape and maybe a speaking part. . Fun fact, that’s how Zoe Saldana (The actress that plays Uhura the Calvin timeline) got her start, she’s the actress in n the first pirates of the Caribbean movie that asks Jack sparrow (Johnny Depp) about a ship.
@Locutus
@Locutus 3 жыл бұрын
Starfleet, not Star Fleet.
@aliceinwonderland8314
@aliceinwonderland8314 3 жыл бұрын
My family has a head canon of starfleet being where the slightly crazy people go, and the more sensible members of the federation sit back and watch the chaos from a safe distance. Humans seem to have less common sense than most other species, hence more common in starfleet.
@UGNAvalon
@UGNAvalon 3 жыл бұрын
Great, now I’m imagining a fledgling Federation trying to setup its Federal Defense Fleet, with all 4 member races pledging to contribute modest warship numbers to the general pool. Then Earth’s ambassador pipes up: “Hey, how about our science & exploration fleet? I’m sure our Federation could use that too! Starfleet’s willing to donate a few of our Warp5 ships to the task of charting the edges of Allied Space.” “The Vulcan Science Fleet... will decline this request.” The Andorians & Tellarites agree. “What, so... will Starfleet be the sole contributor to the Federal Exploratory Fleet?” “Looks like it,” chuckles a Tellarite. “Might as well just keep the name ‘Starfleet’ since that’s all it’ll be.” ...... Years later, an eccentric Vulcan approaches UE Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco. “Greetings. I’m here to join Earth’s division of the Federal Exploratory Fleet. Vulcan’s is... nonexistent, to say the least.” “Federal Explo- you mean Starfleet?? I don’t think Anyone’s ever used the term ‘Federal Exploratory Fleet’ except for the admirals/lawyers at the highest levels of the bureaucracy!”
@unigaming9921
@unigaming9921 2 жыл бұрын
This is exactly it too. Consider their histories. Vulcans and the others had stable, ancient institutions. They had no reason to drop their own institutions for the Federation (that they joined at all is impressive). Earth didn't. Their ships and even their government were new, and had no deeply ingrained history. They were, afterall, still healing from the collapse of their society. So when the Federation was created, they went all in, because they had no reason to hold back.
@ignitetheinferno1858
@ignitetheinferno1858 3 жыл бұрын
I’ve never understood Lores need to tell people just how much smarter and better he is then other people. Just tell us the topic instead of “I know this or that better than 90% of you!”
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
It probably has to do with the fact that I am addressing the near metric ton of people saying “nuh uh, I’s know it’s this way”. It’s cutting people off at the past. Unfortunately , when you don’t have access to my account.. you don’t see the limitless comments of ... spectacular fashion
@cyanes
@cyanes 3 жыл бұрын
I always felt the federations was a human centric organization with the federation being on earth as well as the center of the government
@unigaming9921
@unigaming9921 2 жыл бұрын
I think it's largely a matter of recent history. Groups like the Vulcans had long, coherent, proud, and stable societies. They honestly didn't need the Federation. They joined it much like how a European nation might join the EU. They were Vulcan citizens in a larger Federation, but still Vulcan. They had institutions and fleets going back long before Earth reached the stars, and had no reason to lay these down. Humans were still recovering from a collapse of their society. They had no such stability or coherency. They were attempting to rebuild and find a place for themselves. So they took the Federation as their new home. They weren't United Earth citizens in a larger Federation, they were Federation citizens who came from the United Earth. Their institutions and structures, even the UE itself, were new and held no deep connection to humans. When the Federation came around, the humans alone went all in, because they had nothing worth clinging onto as an individual species.
@hemaccabe4292
@hemaccabe4292 3 жыл бұрын
Would you want to serve on a ship which was 100 degrees F and you weighed twice as much? For Vulcans, a Human ship would be freezing and low gravity.
@hemaccabe4292
@hemaccabe4292 3 жыл бұрын
@@ts757arse Your reply is amusing you arse! :) My point was to agree with the presentation that race specific ships would continue because it would be very uncomfortable to serve on a ship of another species.
@hemaccabe4292
@hemaccabe4292 3 жыл бұрын
@@ts757arse Can't argue with "sticking" to canon! ;)
@simicmagic4806
@simicmagic4806 3 жыл бұрын
I imagine species with similar environmental tolerances and requirements could easily serve on the same ship. How would, say a Xindi Aquatic; serve on a Starfleet vessel with a mostly human crew?
@chrisdefresne3235
@chrisdefresne3235 2 жыл бұрын
The cetacean labs?
@roguerifter9724
@roguerifter9724 3 жыл бұрын
Don't forget the Vulcans had at least one starship crewed entirely by Vulcans in the mid 23rd century. Odds are the environmental issues you mentioned lead to crews of one species or at least species from very similar environments being assigned to ships. There are probably some Starfleet personnel willing to deal with the discomfort of of a ship whose standard environmental settings are different then the conditions of home but most would probably just prefer to serve on ships where the conditions for the work areas are set to mimic or nearly their natural environments.
@kfcroc18
@kfcroc18 3 жыл бұрын
The thing that bugs me is that everyone in the Fed uses Human ships. It was not until Enterprise aired that anyone saw a Vulcan ship. Star Trek as a whole would have been a lot more interesting with different ship flying around.
@Vagus32000
@Vagus32000 3 жыл бұрын
How do we know in universe the ships we see aren’t designed by the other races?
@johnsegertsons2143
@johnsegertsons2143 3 жыл бұрын
You mean other ships like Klingons,Romulan, tholian,ferengi, Cardasian,Bjoran, Marquis, Borg, Jem haddar ??
@kfcroc18
@kfcroc18 3 жыл бұрын
@@johnsegertsons2143 Ships from Fed members like the Vulcans.
@johnsegertsons2143
@johnsegertsons2143 3 жыл бұрын
@@kfcroc18 Oh like the ones in first contact or Enterprise?
@kfcroc18
@kfcroc18 3 жыл бұрын
@@johnsegertsons2143 Yes!
@daviddanyluk535
@daviddanyluk535 3 жыл бұрын
Just recently joined you. I am enjoying all the Star Trek related streams. Take care,
@SgtBeltfed
@SgtBeltfed 3 жыл бұрын
The USS Intrepid, in The Original Series, was noted as having an all Vulcan crew.
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
I use that clip
@SgtBeltfed
@SgtBeltfed 3 жыл бұрын
@@LoreReloaded AH, I missed that one
@larqven0192
@larqven0192 3 жыл бұрын
In my own... head-canon- the Federation, Star Fleet and their social-Utopian and technological levels were relatively new achievements in TOS. For examples, "The Cage" has the 'Time Barrier' being broken leading to faster warp speeds. Doctor Daystrom invented 'Duotronics' about 20 years earlier, revolutionizing computers, Kirk explains that asylums are now 'like resorts', doubtlessly exposition, but suggesting that older or uninformed crew members are unaware of new advances. Anyway, my own conception of the Star Trek universe was that the early 23rd Century earth and the Federation would have looked noticeably more primitive than TOS. Big changes had happened in just the last 20 - 30 years. Those 'Big Changes' are still underway, as we see in the technological advances (and suggested by uniform changes) in the early movie era. Also, by some species remaining segregated such as the all Vulcan crew what with the episode of the space amoeba. Or failure of such projects such as the Nimbus joint colony in "Star Trek V" Regarding Starfleet, yeah, it was largely an earth / human organization. It didn't necessarily start off as being universally seen as an elite organization. In some ways, the other three founding members and several associated worlds as well, probably saw it as an 'Irish Cop' sort of thing. Something for the human 'newbies' to occupy themselves with. Politically, the Federation being little more than a glorified alliance, with earth being chosen as the HQ for being the underdeveloped fourth world, the neutral setting . The Federation and Star Fleet being seen as prudent for if the Romulans should re-emerge or if the Klingons should put their full attention against them. However, mostly being more like 'Space Cops' than the true 'Space Navy' of the Federation. For humans, Star Fleet being a means of 'progressing' as a worthy and advanced world. Eventually, yes, becoming so successful that Star Fleet evolved into the de-facto military, and earth being at the head of the table and preponderant members of Star Fleet. But that 'tipping point' probably didn't happen until shortly before the TOS era. By the Next Gen era, the dominance of humans is a bit more reduced, but NOBODY else qualifies as a #2 world within the Federation as the numbers of Federation members grew, each voice getting a little smaller.
@Slevin-Kelevra
@Slevin-Kelevra 3 жыл бұрын
I have long wondered if those were early breen. Near start of video.
@DomAnthony89
@DomAnthony89 3 жыл бұрын
They have ships that are mostly Vulcan. Like the team that came in DS9 to beat the Sisiko at baseball.
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
I play that clip
@DomAnthony89
@DomAnthony89 3 жыл бұрын
@@LoreReloaded oh, I chimed in before I watched the whole thing. Which, I should have waited.
@kulrigalestout
@kulrigalestout 3 жыл бұрын
I've often wondered what role a Human would play on a mostly Vulcan crew. We know that Vulcans on mostly Human crews tend to be science officers, and are usually highly trusted senior officers. But that's because Vulcans have their emotions under much better control than Humans do, and are in general better able to pursue THE truth instead of THEIR truth. But what would a typical Human bring to a Vulcan mission?
@antwan1357
@antwan1357 3 жыл бұрын
i noticed this too about starfleet seems to keep a 1 % token alien presence , and no one seems to mention it. Except for any of the animations of starfleet. Also I would like to point out Tuvok's span of service to starfleet. He enters starfleet before Janeway is even born , and goes from ensign to chief security officer in only 200 years.
@KylVonCarstein
@KylVonCarstein 3 жыл бұрын
Tuvok resigned his first commission after 3 years, and re-entered Starfleet over 50 years later. He had been in Starfleet for 22 years at the time of Voyager.
@antwan1357
@antwan1357 3 жыл бұрын
@@KylVonCarstein still the show gives the impression that Tuvok dedicated much of his life to Starfleet. I've noticed a pattern though among Vulcans . That social pariahs go to Starfleet with only one exception as the Vulcans hold a lot of prejudices among themselves.
@rvaughan74
@rvaughan74 3 жыл бұрын
I do believe that had a time-traveling Mark Twain call them out on the ratios. Mostly he thought they were slaves.
@Matt-yg8ub
@Matt-yg8ub 3 жыл бұрын
Well think about that, right now you have millennials bitter and resentful that the baby boomers aren’t retiring and giving up their positions of management and leadership in companies. Now Imagine a Vulcan graduated from the Academy at the age of 30, made Lieutenant Commander by the age of 50 and ran things for the next hundred years. Essentially all of your command positions would be occupied by Vulcan who just wouldn’t freaking die! There would be no upward mobility for anyone else because you promoted the Vulcans early in their career and they just sat there for an entire generation. This is why within the Vulcan fleets themselves, you could be an ensign for 50 years...With 100 years of experience under your belt before you became the captain of a vessel.
@destinybee9775
@destinybee9775 3 жыл бұрын
The alien characters that we see in starfleet are shown to be Misfits in the their own Society
@STho205
@STho205 3 жыл бұрын
That is quite correct.
@spergicide97
@spergicide97 3 жыл бұрын
The Federation was the perfect human empire. Through slow and careful building, they coerced the most powerful alien races in the quadrant to happily demilitarize themselves and serve for the betterment of Earth and humanity primarily. Garek would be proud.
@Qaianna
@Qaianna 3 жыл бұрын
So thoroughly conquering other races that they don't even run their own empire anymore. The Borg don't want humanity's technology, they want their assimilation methods.
@Mr.Adkins82
@Mr.Adkins82 3 жыл бұрын
Earth station could be from the pre UFP form of labeling but going into the future it could help show which planet designed/constructed the station even what is the regular atmosphere of the station since not all member worlds of the UFP breathed oxygen or survived in the same temperature. It would help identify that. Plus it would seem reasonable for outpost further from the core worlds to be called by their local population to identify what part of the UFP someone is in especially when aboard a star ship like the Galaxy class that is a luxury ship with non-commissioned members of the crew like teachers and children that don't keep up with star charts or track where the ship is but instead mainly focus on the next outpost to let them know where they are, how they should equip/dress to leave the ship, what might be available in the area as far as commerce, and what might be within a day trip away; and this all can be communicated by calling it a Earth Outpost, an Andorian Outpost, etc.
@leomonaghan3933
@leomonaghan3933 3 жыл бұрын
I might also add that one probable reason that few Andorians are seen serving on "Human Climate" ships and bases is due likely to the fact that the typical 72 degrees Fahrenheit (22 degrees Celsius) "standard" environment would be sweltering for an Andorian, probably similar to a human having to endure temperatures in the mid 90's(F) (35 Celsius). And while that could be tolerated for a relatively short visit, an extended stay of months to years there would be fairly torturous. For Vulcans on the other hand, the human "standard" temperature is fairly cool but not only is it generally easier for a person to adapt to staying in a cooler climate over a hotter one (for example by adding layers of clothes) Vulcans generally have greater control over their metabolic responses and because of that are also less likely to be seriously inconvenienced by prolonged stays in a mildly cooler climate. Thus giving a reasonable in universe rational for why we see a fair number of Vulcans in the modern Trek series versus Andorians.
@justinwilkie1272
@justinwilkie1272 3 жыл бұрын
I get the budget aspect, but I would also argue that most hero characters are human to make the show more relatable
@hemaccabe4292
@hemaccabe4292 3 жыл бұрын
The Vulcans had at least one all Vulcan ship in TOS that got ate by the space amoeba. Maybe others?
@Bitchslapper316
@Bitchslapper316 3 жыл бұрын
There was also one in DS9, the U.S.S T'Kumbra. There were probably a lot of ships fully manned by aliens, we only got to see a few.
@Slevin-Kelevra
@Slevin-Kelevra 3 жыл бұрын
With O'Brian, my head cannon is that it was field promotions for specific roles he was put in, but on his personall record his rank read correct. However, he was paid the pay grade of those officer ranks plus his time in service pay while at that temporary higher rank.
@Slevin-Kelevra
@Slevin-Kelevra 3 жыл бұрын
Scotty bought a boat. Kirk has a pimp lair in SF. In TNG Beverly & Troy were buying fabrics. In DS9, Star Fleet personel paid to buy food, drink and gamble in Quarks. So they needed some form of credit they could trade with none Federation places. Sisko's Dad had a resturant. Picard has a winery. Quark would sometimes bill Star Fleet for side work.
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
Starfleet from the 23rd to 24th century stopped using money.. they did have some continuity gaffes but apparently they don’t generally use it.. or so dialogue says.. episodes be damned
@treavy-n1d
@treavy-n1d 3 жыл бұрын
well why didnt each world share the role of capital so the threats like the borg attack on sector 001 and more wouldnt happen and instead it would be more logical where if one world housing the capital the other members would come to attack at once
@LeahBouley
@LeahBouley 3 жыл бұрын
People stick with what they know it’s simple as that, loved the video tho lore, I always summed it up to people are allways gonna go with something they know, why small pseudo communities exist within larger cities/towns/countries it seem to just be easier and the easiest route with least resistance is usually what people take (people in the living sentient creature, humans, ferengi etc sense)
@killajive1
@killajive1 3 жыл бұрын
The reason why earth was chosen and the designs from earth were chosen in my eyes was because all the other races didn’t have prejudiced against the humans. Where as the other races were at wars with each other and some of them are pretty costly. I see the humans as the glue of the federation at least in the beginning.
@thefurrybastard1964
@thefurrybastard1964 3 жыл бұрын
Good video and analysis of the subject. I would like to point out that Spock had referred to a ship manned entirely by Vulcans in at least one original series episode. Perhaps there were other ships that were manned by other member races too? But as we do not see them onscreen, it is largely irrelevant.
@thehillbillygamer2183
@thehillbillygamer2183 3 жыл бұрын
I want to know what happened to the Vulcan fleet after The warp 5 EnterpriseIn in the time of James t Kirk the Vulcan fleet ???
@ironwarmonger
@ironwarmonger 3 жыл бұрын
There is a TOS episode where they talk about another Federation star ship crewed mostly by Vulicans, which for environment reason actually does made sense.
@ArticBlueFox96
@ArticBlueFox96 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, I would love to see a crew (one that is pacifistic) with a mix of: Aenar, Deltans, El-Aurians, Orions, Tellarites, and Vulcans (and maybe androids and Denobulans as well). If there are humans, which I am not opposed to, I would like it if the humans are in the minority.
@arbjbornk
@arbjbornk 3 жыл бұрын
I envision the Federation of the 23rd century to be more akin to the European Union, collection of sovereign states that retained their individual services, both military and civilian, than the United States, with a much more centrally organized military and civilian services. The UFP Starfleet was more of an umbrella organization, overseeing defense and securing interstellar space lanes for commerce (akin to NATO), and coordinating with various member world space services. Kirk's Enterprise was operating at least partially under the United Earth Space Probe Agency ("Tomorrow is Yesterday"). By the time of the "Golden Age" of the early to mid-24th century, we start seeing the UFP and Starfleet as more centralized organizations.
@TebrynVaash
@TebrynVaash 3 жыл бұрын
Birthrates would also play a part in this. Iirc Vulcans mate only once every 7 years and not guaranteed an offspring. I can't figure for Tellarites or Andorians, Andorians probably would end up with longer gestation periods due to the cold weather, more complications, etc. Basically there's a good chance humans with our unusually short gestation period were cranking out and outpacing the other species by a fair margin.
@LanMandragon1720
@LanMandragon1720 Жыл бұрын
If that's the case it's pretty hilarious because thats exactly how human power is justified most fantasy stories.
@AsbestosMuffins
@AsbestosMuffins 3 жыл бұрын
tbf, most of the species in the federation seem content to stay in their neighborhood while humans were so ready to leave earth, they pushed colonization from well before it was convenient or even really safe to do. humanity went to space when it was forced to colonize, now new states can just jump straight to instant communication and convenient levels of transport
@Lord_Reavous
@Lord_Reavous 3 жыл бұрын
As I recall the USS Intrepid from the Original Series was crewed by Vulcans exclusively. Spock felt them all perish and described 430ish Vulcan's shock at dying.
@rochedl
@rochedl 3 жыл бұрын
The view of the human centered Federation I feel is mainly with who we followed on the shows. If the Federation was "Real" I would think that each of the member worlds would have their own Academy center out of fears that having the academy only on Earth would give the Humans a unfair edge in how the Federation was ran. I THINK ( and I could be wrong) but I think that in one of the FASA books it was stated that the Federation Capital moved to which Member world the President was from. So the same may be true with Starfleet HQ.
@shadowwriter4538
@shadowwriter4538 3 жыл бұрын
I always wondered why the other member worlds didn't ask for their own Starfleet academies too; if anything, the worlds that have been in the federation the longest (depending on the era in time) would take priority. Granted, Starfleet is hardley the norm of exploration and the other planets might have an equivalent of Starfleets in their world, or see no need for one.
@ikp4success
@ikp4success 3 жыл бұрын
Andorria didn't trust Vulcan, Tellarite did not trust Andoriians, so all three founding members including Humans chose Earth as the capital, because humans were neutral, new kid on the block and no previous animosity between humans and them.
@skatemetrix
@skatemetrix 3 жыл бұрын
Yes there were obvious issues with budgets, but I don't think the writers really ever fleshed out the societal systems, the demographics, the cultural processes or the philosophies of a civilization like the Federation, they gave hints to possible structures but nothing concrete. Also Star Trek evolved organically and each series was a new interpretation, a process that ceased after Enterprise was cancelled in 2005. It should also be noted that all Star Trek series (before JJ Trek) were a giant vehicle of plot and allegory to comment on what we -- us humans right now -- could achieve in the future. Thus it was bound to be human-focused.
@gwgux
@gwgux 3 жыл бұрын
It's totally environmental and cultural as to why they're usually separated. Vulcans prefer warmer temperatures than humans, many are bothered by the smell of humans, and the "human way" of doing things that is most illogical to them tests the limits of their emotional suppression. On the other side, humans find vulcans to be arrogant, tough to figure out due to how vulcans suppress their emotions, and having three times the strength of a human (and they're fast too) probably makes some humans feel a little insecure around them. That's just the vulcans and humans, say nothing of how other races interact with each other. That aside, and production budgets aside, I would think that writing an entire new race is no small feet. We're spoiled now that we've had klingons, vulcans, etc. all pretty well defined through multiple series and movies, but it did take many years to get there.
@logannichols5848
@logannichols5848 3 жыл бұрын
Yes. The federation is huge and though we don't see it the andorians and the Vulcan fleets along with those of all the other races are are part of federations larger fleet. The series tends to focus on federation from earth and I would like to see a star trek with a an andorian style ship and a more diverse crew.
@kingssman2
@kingssman2 3 жыл бұрын
Starfleet is like the borg. Their mission is to go out and assimilate other worlds to add their technological advantages into the collective.
@fastertrackcreative
@fastertrackcreative 3 жыл бұрын
How would you maintain an environment for a big range of species? Let's say one is from a planet that is largely ice thus evolved thick fur and insulation, they'd always be too hot at 21 degrees environment. Or a species that is from a very hot (sun/volcanic) planet could be too cold to be able to live in this environment. The issue of a different atmosphere can be resolved via augmentation but it probably isn't greatly comfortable. Aquatic life forms wouldn't be able to transverse a largely dry station/ship. Or if they come from a planet/moon/other which has a different gravity so will be either crushed by the ship's gravity (this was covered in DS9 I think) or find it too light.
@andrebrynkus2055
@andrebrynkus2055 3 жыл бұрын
You touch on it near the end - but yeah, I definitely think that in a lot of cases they try to keep crews a majority of one race for their comfort. Andorians would want to be on a ship that is kept cooler than one that humans find comfortable. Vulcans would want higher gravity and dryer air. (They might want to be away from all of those smelly humans too.) Tellarites would prefer a warmer ship than a human one. In some cases a captain might request a specific officer - such as Janeway wanting to be paired with Tuvok. In other cases there might only be one or two of a species in Starfleet so it would be difficult to put Data or Ro on a ship with others that might make them feel more welcome. Also the Enterprise-D was a flagship so in many cases they were getting the best of Starfleet and that means Picard can pull in anyone he wants.
@FriedrichVSS
@FriedrichVSS 3 жыл бұрын
6:56 - People can do what they want? Based.
@jeremycaufield8605
@jeremycaufield8605 2 жыл бұрын
In TOS it’s stated that there is a Constitution class Starship crewed solely by Vulcans, I would assume it’s the same for other races.
@Lin.QiYuan
@Lin.QiYuan 3 жыл бұрын
New to Star Trek ,what series should I watch first
@Vagus32000
@Vagus32000 3 жыл бұрын
TOS or DS9 in my opinion. TNG is good too but I would rank it a step lower than those two. Definitely skip Voy, Ent, and Disco unless you insist on watching everything Trek.
@firekram
@firekram 3 жыл бұрын
It depends on what you like The Original Series: is pretty silly by today's standards, but is still a good time ( if you like it, be sure to check out the Animated Series, it's basically more of the same with added benefit of animation) The Next Generation: Probably the best starting point as it sets up both Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Deep Space 9: It's some of the best Trek but you should probably watch The Next Generation first to get the setting Voyager: Not quite as good as The Next Generation or Deep Space 9, but it has it's moments. Depends on how much you like the crew Enterprise: I just started it myself and I'm enjoying it so far, not a bad choice of a place to start, but it has a bad habit of breaking continuity and cannon in other Series Lower Decks and Discovery: Haven't seen enough to give a fair assessment, but they aren't a favorite of the fans. If I had to guess Lower Decks is better than Discovery. (As Lower decks plays with Canon while Discovery is more about telling its story with no regard for anything that can before it)
@ravingsofa...6
@ravingsofa...6 3 жыл бұрын
ds9
@joshuafarrow9581
@joshuafarrow9581 3 жыл бұрын
I might be old school but TNG is just as good as DS9 for different reasons
@jimg9820
@jimg9820 3 жыл бұрын
Probably best to go in prodcution order, though TOS maybe a little too dated for a new viewer - you could easily start with TNG instead. Next Gen is probably my favourite but beware that series 1 is a bit of a duffer. DS9 very good too. Voyager is the only one I didn't manage to watch all of.
@autumnVoid1138
@autumnVoid1138 3 жыл бұрын
What is the species shown at 0:07 ? They look really interesting and cool
@dswynne
@dswynne 3 жыл бұрын
Two things. One, we could easily be dealing with a French Foreign Legion thing, where Starfleet is managed by Earth, but Federation (and non-Federations) people can serve. This would play into the Vulcan's bias for anyone from Vulcan serving in Starfleet. Or, two, we can be dealing with a United Nations thing, in which Starfleet is still an Earth-centric organization, with Fed member worlds contributing to their resources in their own way (there were Vulcans-only ships). By the 24th century, members of the Federation were more integrated in its defense as members of Starfleet.
@src6339
@src6339 3 жыл бұрын
Now that you mention it.... Have you ever noticed that, with the acception of Archers dog Porthos, all of the characters on the show are played by human actors? And what happened to the Porthos character? Killed off screen by Scotty, as a joke...
@garthst.claire3459
@garthst.claire3459 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, the writers of TNG could have written Starfleet in a way that would have portrayed it as a more obviously multi-species organization, especially with the seemingly endless number of perfectly human looking aliens we see in Star Trek. Just like they could have written the resident telepath to be capable and useful, but they failed that too. So it's a writing failure, imho, in addition to a logistics one. In a similar manner they failed to ever establish a proper umbrella term for the sapient species of the galaxy (again "humanoid" was human-centric) when really "Sapient" would have worked pretty well. Plus each show did get better about showing alien crewmembers than the last one. With the obvious exception of Enterprise, set before the Federation. The reason I dislike the "each species prefers their mutually incompatible environments" is that outside of TOS we never see any evidence of it. Neither Tuvok nor any other Klingon ever complained of the cold, for example (not sure about T'Pol, haven't seen al of Enterprise). The only times I can remember was when Garrick complained that the lights on DS9 were too bright. Sure Lwaxana demanded that the temperature in her cabin should be raised to a "civilized level", but for all we know she just happened to live in a tropical part of Betazed and was used to it because of that.
@sgt_s4und3r54
@sgt_s4und3r54 3 жыл бұрын
Well you can't tell the difference between V and VI sooooooo........ All joking(yes I am joking) aside I think you hit it just fine. You started off with Production costs but made a good point about the differences in species that easily and elaborately explains the situation. I couldn't agree more on your points while being one of your most difficult viewers as of late for your defense of STD.
@jackleg2007
@jackleg2007 3 жыл бұрын
I would like to see how did some characters make it into and graduate to become SF officiers. Tasha Yar came from a feral failed colony. Ro came from a refugee camp in the outer rim. But Crusher struggled. Picard failed to first time.
@Midnight.Shadows
@Midnight.Shadows 3 жыл бұрын
I'm really glad you broke this down the way you did. There's always going to be people who try to twist videos like this into some human on human racism but the reality is that in the fictional star trek universe, it makes sense that species stick to their own cultures as environmental, nutritional, and even as far as medical and entertainment would be vastly different because of their biology. It's not as simple as being blue or pink or having green blood in the trek universe, it goes as far as species that breathe what to others would be toxic air (The Benzites I think they're called?), those that live in water and can't live on a human starship without considerations (Xindi Aquatics) Those that would die in temperature ranges to suit others. (Tholians who live at I believe it's stated 400 degrees Kelvan in enterprise?) In a way, if you take anything from Trek, the fact that there are alien diverse crews at all is a miracle and a wonder.
@GreekRoyalty
@GreekRoyalty 3 жыл бұрын
Two words that don't get discussed about interspecies cooperation: Circadian Rhythm. As much as we want a utopian future of peaceful coexistence, barring crazy future space-wizard-medicine, all these species would have evolved on planets with different lengths of day and night, as well as different biological needs for sleep - all of which make something like... scheduling duty shift rotations (I'm looking at you, Captain Edward "Four shift rotation" Jellico) a logistical nightmare for crews that were vastly heterogeneous. We've seen small canon allusions to this, in the form of Bajor's 26 hour day, and Dr. Phlox's hibernation cycle for example. Forcing so many beings to conform to the day/night patterns of a different species from a different world is the unspoken, boring, reason why, in my opinion, so much of the fleet would be predominantely mono-species.
@celt67
@celt67 3 жыл бұрын
Wasnt one of Enterprises sister ships that blew up mostly a Vulcan crew ?
@avernvrey7422
@avernvrey7422 3 жыл бұрын
Well, it's not so much, 'production,' that's the issue, but the fact that the writers have to make the stories and characters relatable to the actual audience... which is human. If the story is too 'alien,' there's not going to be as much interest. That broad idea is true even in general media for most areas of our world today. Except for big budget special effects films, local audiences prefer local actors and stories, while small scale foreign films aren't as popular. Nollywood films of Nigeria aren't as popular in Thailand as local Thai films, etc.
@DerBeppone
@DerBeppone 3 жыл бұрын
Come to think of the logistics behind all this, it really makes a ton of sense. We can see it even in Melora in ds9, where it is incredibly ressourcefull to accomodate for her, since she comes from a low G environment. A shame, that this is a one off. We also have a lot of dialouge, where members of certain species will go on about, how they are uncomfortable under human ideal conditions. It's not like Starfleet wouldn't move everything possible to accomodate for their crew members, but for these crew members stuff like this would still be natural barriers to overcome and thus, they would feel to be left outside, just by circumstance. Even in the Titan Books it is still a huge task to fit Titan's ameneties to accomodate for it's diverse crew. And it is also implied that it only recently became feasable technologicaly, to have such a mixed crew. Of course this is Beta canon, but in essence they are the manifestation of theories in a way, of existing Alpha canon after all.
@quinn7876
@quinn7876 3 жыл бұрын
This is frightening- I wrote a paper on this very subject not one week ago for my final.
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 3 жыл бұрын
I'm actually in your class, but was to nervous to talk to you about what i do.
@alistairgrey5089
@alistairgrey5089 3 жыл бұрын
I think this really is down to the culture of the different species. Humans are known for being explorers, it's defined our history. Vulcans are known as thinkers, which means they might take roles in Starfleet but are much more likely to be scientists rather than command crew. The same goes for other species. While, yes, there are exceptions in every species, the norm would determine how many of them you see. Different species would have different desires. I can imagine a Klingon would much prefer to command a combat ship over a science cruiser. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.
@spillingvoid1
@spillingvoid1 3 жыл бұрын
I think Chekov's statement was fitting for the time. It was a statement that 20 years before was probably relatively progressive to the those who used it, if he hadn't been tippsy maybe he would have used his P12 powers to erase the statement from Azetbur's memory. The.. species-ism of the statement is out of ignorance, not malice and would only really show itself for what it is to someone who is truly an outside species. The recognition for a need to shift the language is reflected by the end of the movie were Kirk himself changes his quote from "...where no man has gone before" to "...where no one has gone before." This is also carried into the Next Generation, at least, where many of the founding phrases are changed to be species neutral, at least when recited by cast. Or I'm completely wrong and everyone just needs to read Battle Mech books so they can hate on Capellans as we all should hate the back stabbing hooligans.
@kulrigalestout
@kulrigalestout 3 жыл бұрын
The way I see it, the other races of the Federation already have their own interstellar fleets for defense and exploration, and per the terms of the charter are allowed *and* encouraged to maintain them. Starfleet is really the only thing the Humans have. I mean, an exceptional Human could probably end up being part of the Vulcan Expeditionary Group, but it is far more likely that one would be assigned temporarily as a Starfleet Exchange Officer than to actually be a fully fledged member of the VEG.
@unigaming9921
@unigaming9921 2 жыл бұрын
EXACTLY! The Humans had barely finished rebuilding from the collapse of their society. They had nothing. The United Earth and it's Starfleet were new, and little more than attempts to rebuild something. While Vulcans had institutions and no reason to let them go, humanity had nothing to hold it back. Humanity went all in on the Federation because it had nothing else. Vulcans are members of the Vulcan citizens who joined the Federation. Humans are Federation citizens who happened to be from the United Earth.
@christopherg2347
@christopherg2347 3 жыл бұрын
It made sense to focus a lot of infrastructure, designs and naming on earth - because humans were the neutral core or glue. The members of the Coalition and later the Federation had been at each others throats for decades, if not centuries. Every other location, every other set of ship designs would only have pereptuated those issues. There is a real world example for this: Euro Bills. There is architecture printed on those bills. But not *actuall architecture* - no nation has their iconic landmarks and tourist traps on the bills. Doing different would only have led to conflict. There is a special 0€ denomination that can be used for commemorative bills, where you can print whatever national landmark you like. And the coins backside (which has no duplication of the value) is a lot less strict. But the bills are generic. Specific points: The part whre the president of *Earth* (not the Federation, but earth!) was a non-human in DS9 made pretty clear that the species were very equal In Discovery, a number of addional points were added: - a non-human Captain - the Federation headquarters leaving earth and all the other founding worlds, meaning it is now equally far away from every planet - yet earth still seeming to have plenty of non-human citizens. And that is just what we can see - the DNA of people has to be all kinds of mixed up.
@johnburns9634
@johnburns9634 3 жыл бұрын
How big is Earth compared to the other homewards? Which of the four Federation species are the most numerous? The most headstrong? Is Kirk the only 'scream and leap' human? Is Spock the only reserved scientist and explorer who shies away from leadership unless he's 'the logical option'? How many can live on each of the four homeworlds? Is Earth like a 'wheel planet' in the way that there are wheel cities depending on transportation for resources? maybe not the centre of the Federation, but the 'centre' of those four founding species. Vulcans are logical, and reserved, is that something that helps when exploring the Galaxy, in some areas yes, which is why Spock's in Starfleet, but Starfleet, unlike the Federation is a military organization? Are there other professions better suited to Vulcans? Sarak is an Ambassador, being reserved and logical can be very good in interpersonal relationships. Politics and working in a bureaucracy can be beneficial when there's logical beings within. Some thoughts.
@STho205
@STho205 3 жыл бұрын
The USS Intrepid mentioned in TOS season 3, was the 1st revision in what Starfleet was. In the first two seasons starfleet was humans only. Journey to Babel dialog indicated that each planet/star empire has their own fleet (like NATO), with an arms merchant selling them stuff. Thus the stealth marauder's intent to cause constant distrust in the Federation and sell to rival fleets. In season 1, episodes 1-13 there was no Federation. They were United Earth Alliance, Kirk states that in scripts... Spock was there because he was mingo and acted much like the British guest officer to the USAF in Dr Stangelove. Spock was an oddity on a starfleet starship. USS was standing for United Space Ship in 1964-66, yeah really. Otherwise it would USF or UFS... "Starship" was originally a class of ship that Enterprise was. It even says that in every episode on the bulkhead build plaque by the turbolift. Constitution Class got traction in the 70s after a plastic model company put it in their instruction sheet for numbering different ships.. Then it made it to the 70s fan gamers "Starfleet Technical Manual" then into the franchise when it restarted in 79 and the 80s. Star Trek has never been fully consistent. Major and minor changes happen since 1965, even inside the original series. By the films, things changed a lot. TNG and DS9 changed stuff even more. Enterprise was impossible to fully fit into TOS prehistory... By 2007 the producers stopped even trying.
@Misiulo
@Misiulo 3 жыл бұрын
You know what's strange to me? They always identify themselves as "federation Starship" as if this was saying it all. As if there was no significant difference between a Terran starship and Volcan starship.
@robertpolityka8464
@robertpolityka8464 3 жыл бұрын
One state might become The Dominant State in a federation or confederation, based on size alone. For example, Prussia was the dominant state within The German Empire. Or Russia as the dominant state in the USSR. So, what was the population of Earth in comparison to the other founding planets of the UFP? If Earth made up a simple majority of the original four planets and if certain Federation institutions were headquarted on Earth, then it would be logical for people whose roots come from Earth make up a higher percentage in some of those institutions.
@pedroarjona6996
@pedroarjona6996 3 жыл бұрын
It have been mentioned in these forum that the existence of Vulcan sponsored and totally or mostly operated ships have been canonically established, so the existence of ships mostly operated by Telllerites or Andorians or Betazoids can also be inferred, but Have anyone see a not Human or Vulcan Admiral? Not Human civil servants and politicians are canon but I can't remember a single not Human high level Starfleet officer, even Spock eventually decided to abandon Starfleet and become and Ambassador.
@JobeStroud
@JobeStroud 3 жыл бұрын
I haven't watched the video yet. I will just say that Humans were the main driving force. Not many species, least I remember from the show, were all about seeing what is out there. Though I maybe way out of context of the video. EDIT: Yes they were human vessels. They were human bases. They got off their butts and did things outside of their little areas. The other races, Vulcans are a obvious thing, Short life species are always faster than older living species.
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