Stick around for the discussion after the song. What is it about harsh vocals that’s appealing to you? Judson wants to know.

The pure discomfort was great.

I love how Richard is just laughing at poor Judson's faces as the video goes on hahaha ,the Richard cam really adds to the viewing experience. On that note, Pain Remains has a instrumental version of it, maybe Judson would appreciate that and sort of "get" the melodic side of Lorna. Maybe also showing the lyrics of the song would make a difference. This song has incredible lyrics and without knowing it I would never like it as much as I do now.

The human ear gets used to anything. It's just a matter of hours spent listening to it. Once it's not alien and constantly abrasive any longer, you get to focus on the intricacies of it and quite possibly find things you like. I didn't use to like blastbeats and harsh vocals much, but now I don't even blink.

harsh vocals should be considered another instrument like any other. they shouldn't be lumped in with "traditional" vocal styles because that's not what they are. It's an aquired taste and takes some time to understand it.

Will Ramos is a very talented vocalist

I had to deal with abuse as a teen and for me, the harshness of the sound was an amazing outlet for the rage and frustration I felt. The FEELING of the song came first, then I would go and read the lyrics.

It’s an acquired taste, like anything else. Nobody likes the taste of beer or coffee at first, but after a while those are things you know you’re in the mood for. Now, I’m always in the mood for metal

I really adore how Judson doesn't just let it all wash over him and go numb to it. The incredible intensity hurts him, but he tries his best to take it all in and fully experience it.

When I first hear bands like Lorna shore I always consider the vocals as just another instrument. I pay attention to how the sounds fit the music and what those sounds are conveying emotionally. After a few listens I start trying to hear the lyrics.

What have you done to Judson 😂 protect this man at all costs. That was hilarious to watch.

That. Has got to be the chillest looking reaction to the, uh, goblin schnorts towards the end, that I have ever seen.

Gojira is a band that actually does what Judson described about the way you sing certain words perfectly, it obviously wouldent be as obvious as Adele but songs like L´Enfant Sauvage, Where Dragons Dwell, The Way of all Flesh and the biggest example (imo) All the Tears do this a lot

At times like these, lyrics would be a godsend haha -It usually helps me digest harsh vocals much easier when I can understand the words being said and the meaning behind all that noise. I'm not a fan of harsh vocals, but I do have great respect for singers with such ability. To go from a human to a goblin bear pig creature is beyond impressive haha

I can't understand most Operas lyrically, but I definitely understand how the story flows without understanding the words. The music and the singing met to tell a story you could basically understand without knowing the words. Same kinda idea in my opinion.

Remember to treat your Judsons with care, and give them a warm safe place to relax after traumatic experiences.

😂 "That's what you took from all of that?!?" That was funny. Honestly I just laugh when I listen to Lorna Shore and similar bands. I am in awe of what they are doing, but that's about the extent of it. Its exclusively headphone listening however. It never fails to empty a room if I play otherwise!

You really gotta show him Wintersun. If he wants big epic symphonies and sounds, it doesn't really get bigger or epic-er than Wintersun. Sons of Winter and Stars or Time will do nicely, the live rehearsals at sonic pump studios, of course. Also, on the point about not being able to understand harsh vocals on first listen, i think this has less to due with them being harsh and more to due with how different vocal cadence is in music compared to normal speech. The distorting still plays a role, but I think cadence plays a bigger one. Also also, that AB, CD, comment was gold Judson. Absolute gold. Last also, I promise, the purpose of any instrument is to convey emotion, vocals are just another way of doing this. The words are irrelevant.

You need to show him Septic Flesh! Their guitarist and main song writer went to school and studied music composition. They have a lot of symphonic elements to their music. Thee are some videos out there where they did a concert with a full orchestra.

Love how you brought up TBDM, absolutely love them. RIP Trevor you’re loved by so many 🖤

This was an instant click. Cant wait for Judsons reaction to this lol

It's lovely to see someone learn the beauty of a breakdown.

I would love to see Judson´s reaction to something from Vildhjarta. Probably won´t like it, but it would be very interesting to me!

You have to show him Will’s cover of Sleep Token..I think that would show him his even more impressive range

I didn’t always like harsh vocals at first, but then when I got into the mindset that the vocalist is another instrument, it changed my perspective

You should listen to Will Ramos' covers on his channel with his clean vocals just for a nice juxtaposition of his range. I recommend his Sleep Token cover. EDIT: Judson mentioned Sleep Token! Gotta watch the cover now! Lol😂

I've always been drawn to things deemed ugly or scary by others. I love the juxtaposition of thunderous symphonic metal music and the absolute hell mouth that lives in Will Ramos' chest

I really love every reaction you make, keep going! Greetings from Peru 🙌

You should definetely show him some Archspire and watch his brain melt at the sheer speed.

Like to see him react to Will Ramos cover Sleep Token

I was never really a fan of harsh vocals in the beginning, but I was always a fan of the high energy that came with metal and I loved the double kick pedals. My love of how high energy mixed with the heaviness of the instruments was enough for me to look past the vocals at first. As time went on, I just slowly started developing a love for the vocals as well. I started off listening to Disturbed and Five Finger Death Punch and now I listen to bands like Lorna Shore and Slaughter to Prevail. Harsh vocals are a lot like beer, it's an acquired taste.

super brutal vocal amazing cool 👍👍🤘🤘

Judson is so wonderful

I saw this live at night and it was life changing. I was in a trance the entire time.

I absolutely love the high at 4:24 for some reason, it's so... clean

I love judsons take on this, even though its not his jam, he is open to the art behind the music. Think he needs to listen to the opus that is pain remains, part 1 through to 3, next. Keep up the vids guys. Awesome content. 👌

I totally get Richard's point, I listened to a ton of music from languages I don't understand and it's amazing to hear the tambre of the voice without getting stuck into the words. Eventually I want to know what the lyrics are, but I listened to certain albums while reading and the voice became the protagonist of my story and it was wonderful.

In the album version of this song his vocals are pushed way back, the mix is definitely inverted in this particular version so that his live vocals stand out

супер мощный вокал песня супер 🤘🤘

I always look forward to new videos from you guys! Waking up to see this a reaction on this one take video, I never clicked on a video so fast ever lol Ya'll keep it up, loving these videos

I love the uncomfortable shift and crossing of the legs lol

It took dude in the grey jacket almost all the way to the guitar solo to stop white-knuckling his knee 😂

Lol, Judson really enjoying the high shrieks. :D

Thanks to Judson for his patience and open mindness

You should do the pain remains trilogy, it's more lyrical and musical Judson might like it more. Maybe with lyrics in front of him 😅

I am sure others have mentioned, the album version the vocals sit further back in the mix that this video

I sing for Condemned! Thanks for the support! I don’t think I’ve seen anyone with that hoodie before! Sick!

24:00 I think what isn't being considered here is that communication isn't limited to actual words. We understand that "ouch" isn't simply a word, it's an exclamation of pain. For me personally, metal is beautiful because even without saying a word one can convey a story. Just like in classical music or jazz, ideas can be expressed and emotions can be highlighted through music without words. Most metal I enjoy is extremely expressive even if you don't understand the words. I can enjoy Japanese metal bands or Scandinavian bands just as much. Good music to me is music that can speak without using words. You don't need to understand the word ouch, you need to understand the pain behind it. Metal can communicate and express ideas in a way I haven't found anywhere else. I can listen to sad songs which tell sad stories. I can listen to songs that have aggressive lyrics that tell stories of pain. But metal can communicate those complexities without saying a word. I didn't enjoy death metal much as a beginner simply because it felt unfocused. I wanted music that was directed at something and could channel an emotion stronger than words, not just that random blind thrashing. But as I started to enjoy harsh vocals more I found joy in death metal because it feels more like an expression of skill fueled by blind fury. It feels more artistic to me because it is amorphous and indirect, while requiring a massive amount of skill. I think of death metal more as an abstract art. The lyrics even usually tend to be more abstract and abrasive. Almost shocking for the sake of shock rather than being driven by emotion. I still much prefer listening to directed anger, sadness, apathy, hopelessness or whatever negative emotion most genres don't explore or can't communicate without the crutch of language. I started listening to metal because it felt cathartic to hear someone else scream when I couldn't. It gave a voice to emotions so complex I couldn't word them. Listening to someone thrash out in rage against the world helped me to focus my own rage. It allowed me to channel my own negative emotions and express them outwardly when I had no other outlet. It made me feel less alone, or like the musicians could understand what I felt even if I couldn't. The lyricism in metal doesn't really matter much if the intent of the words can be communicated without it.

Keith Buckley of Every Time I Die to me is like Trevor is to you i think, his lyrics are just so beautiful to me, even when they arent at the same time. Speaking of, would love it if you did their song "post boredom" or "thing with feathers"

Let him listen and see the video when will Ramos from lorna shore really sings sleep token chokehold

New subscriber acquired! Love this, and Judson’s reactions are top notch! Keep it up!

It's easier growing up into metal, you slowly grow accustom listening to lighter genres as a kid and slowly introducing yourself to heavier music over time, friend influence/being introduced to new stuff, seeing shows etc.

A pianist ( Who most likely understands and plays classic music ) Should appreciate metal. Since it is in many ways close. Its technical, layered. Its about mastering the instrument, and getting everything out of it. Multiple melodies at once. And, often great and big melodies, and meaningful lyrics telling stories.

That A/B to CD thing is a good touch tho, never thought of it

Just like listening to classical music, harsh vocals require prior experience to appreciate them. I started as a basic metal lover and gradually started going into the deeper end. The older I got, the more curious I was to see what I've missed.

Judson should listen to will's cover of chokechold by sleep token if he wants to hear him actually sing.

You should show Judson the pain remains trilogy with discussion after each part. Now that is a piece of art, and a lot of what will says (especially in part 1) is discernable

"To keep the heaviness level, next up is cattle decapitation with 'your disposal'."

I’ll start off by saying I appreciate many genres of music and I feel each offers something different for me. Metal (mostly death, black, and metal core sub-genres) speaks to a primal side of myself that I don’t really tap into. It’s almost therapeutic being in an “aggressive” environment that helps keep the peace in other aspects of my personality and life. I appreciate the balance both light and dark energies can bring.

Amazing the intro "Creep"

What Judson explained is my favorite thing about metal, I dont know most of the lyrics of what I listen to either, I mainly just listen to guitars and drums and the vocals are basically just another rhythmic instrument that adds intensity and another feeling to the sound making it sound dark and brutal.

⛔️⚠️There's a Tuvan band called Hunn Hurr Tu you should check a song named Orphant's Lament the live version and evaluate if Judson should hear it because I really love to see you two measuring it 👍🤟

Thanks for th video. The constructive criticism is why I watch y’all’s videos. Curios on thoughts on Wilderun. They’re a prog death with lots of orchestra. Their most recent release has lots is subtleties in the orchestration. I think y’all would enjoy. Thanks for the videos!

I think an amazing idea for a Judson reaction would be him watching the drummer of Lorna Shore do a playthrough. Meinl Cymbals has three or four and one of them is without the screaming so he could get a better picture of the band aside from Will.

Now this is what I like. This is constructive criticism, which is something that is lost on a lot of people lately. Judson can still see the art in it, he just doesn’t find it appealing and he’s able to explain why. I’m curious though, how does he feel about music in a language he doesn’t understand? Or what about scatting?

Dude 100% agree with everything you said about trevor!

It's interesting hearing the criticism about not being able to understand the words, when i can't make out words in songs in general, even with clean vocals. So i have to look up the lyrics anyway, and harsh vocals aren't different in that way so i basically get all the enjoyment without this disadvantage (if you see it as a disadvantage at all). And at this point i'm such a fan of harsh vocals that i'm even in the process of learning how to do them. It definitely takes some time to get used to them though and i couldn't always appreciate them, i also had a phase as a young metalhead where i looked at stuff like death metal with a "why does anyone listen to this" attitude, but now some of that stuff has grown on me.

The majority of popular music is vocal based. Metal on the otherhand, really levels out the playing field where instruments are just as important as vocals, sometimes more so. Like everyone else is saying, I listen to metal for the instrumentation. I hardly know any metal lyrics from any bands I listen to. But I definitely appreciate their contribution to the overall song/feeling. Imagine what this song would be like with just clean Bon Jovi singing hahaha.

Loved the creep intro 🔥

Amazing! Cattle Decapitation next plz

Maybe because I've been listening to this kind of music for so long but I can understand what he is singing. Though the lyrics are linguistically more complex than a lot of music because you are conveying emotion and feeling as much as you conveying the lyrics themselves.

its a good mix of black death gore symphonic calm bit, fast bit, heavy bit.. satisfying variations

You should show him some of wills covers of sleep tokens stuff so he can hear wills cleans too

Very very interesting conversation at the end. This is like philosophical question about what is art, basically.

First video I've seen of you guys, led here by my love of Will's vocals, and I've gotta say I love your chemistry together! 'That's what you got from that!" Had me rolling 😂 I find it really interesting that Judson seems to interpret the appeal of or engagement with these vocals as being the aesthetic or kinda surface layer of 'does this sound good or appealing as a sound?', with that being separated from the meaning of what the vocalist is saying. I think there's definitely a lot of people who would share that opinion and I can certainly understand why; however, as someone who's been listening to this stuff for the last 15ish years, and practicing the vocals for around 10, I've always found that the extreme vocals heighten the emotion of the song and actually enhance the meaning in a way that's different (and imo better 😝) than clean vocals. I was always initially drawn to bands with clean and harsh vocals, so the contrast between the two really elevated the despair, rage, or defiance that the harsh vocalist's lyrics would often be dealing with. Nowadays, because I can usually understand harsh vocals on the first listen, I can find that same juxtaposition between the different techniques, with fry screams generally being clearer, and false chord screams usually being a little more like pure noise/what a random person would hear or picture as being screamed vocals. All that is to say that I think the layperson's experience would be to have a first listen where it's literally just noise and leave their engagement at that. Imo, the best way to then progress and acclimatise to the song/vocals would be to then read the lyrics along to understand the vocals, then finally experience the emotionality and musicality together with that general grasp of what the song is actually about, and in doing so find those specific lines or phrases that really resonate emotionally or sonically. Over time this becomes a quicker process because your brain has acclimatised to these vocal techniques and allows you to engage with each layer of them simultaneously, and I think that's where the appeal lies for me. Essentially, I think harsh vocals have a really high barrier to entry because it takes a decent investment of time to understand them and to stop yourself from just hearing a loud angry sounding person yelling at you 😂 But, I think the rewards from that can be huge because you're effectively broadening the range of emotion you can convey with your voice. If falsetto is perhaps a softer emotional range, then screams are the natural Yang to that Ying, occupying the opposite end of the emotional spectrum in a way that belted singing can't quite access. Anyway, I could ramble about screaming for years, but I just wanted to engage with the video (because we all know longer form content can struggle with engagement) and to show some love for the most in depth discussion I've seen in a reaction to this song in particular, and harsh vocals more generally! Truly great work fellas, you've earned a new sub ❤️

I see Judson's point when he says that the vocals should be able to convey words properly, but I actually disagree. Several singing techniques (live Throat singing for instance) don't even require words, and they are not less effective or interesting for it. Some singers (like Lisa Gerrard and occasionnaly Lunatic Soul, for instance) sometimes don't even use real words at all, the feeling of the song is conveyd by the melody and the sounds of the voice. Same with the singers who speak a language you don't understand, harsh vocals are in the same category for me. I like to read the lyrics because i am curious, but I can totally live without understanding them. It might be because I was not born in an English speaking country and I had to make do with not understanding anything for years growing up ^^'

This is like Judson saw a painting done by one of the most talented artists, who uses the brightest and best paints in colors he's never seen, and it's a painting of a bowl of oatmeal!

I'm feel like I'm pretty much in tune with Judson... While I've heard a ton of heavy stuff I do like some "balance" and came down some steps from more extreme exemples in the last couple years... I do recognize the awesomeness in being able to sing with such distortion without damaging cords and with such control and I would love to be able to do such an incredible thing =)

will ramos actually said sleep token is his favourite band and he has a few covers af them wich are amazing and you hear his clean voice. must watch for sure. i like mister pianists vibe !

You two are great.

I love that how concerned he looks through all of this XD

I think you should have Judson to at the very least part 1 of the Pain Remains trilogy I think it would help him understanding the concept of using harsh vocals to convey emotion and I think that he would appreciate the more symphonic elements

I think a great song would be Swing The Axe by Fit For An Autopsy, it's a pretty basic track, Joe does his vocals in a way that you can actually understand every lyric said. Now, with Lorna Shore I understand every lyric once I got to figuring out how the sounds Will is making with his vocals works I can catch 90% of their lyrics. Definitely a thing for more extreme types of metal it's kind of a thing some fans like me look forward to opening the booklet and reading through them. Enjoyable and understandable reaction, I hope y'all make more these are great!

The first time I heard the studio recording, it was instantly “take my money”. The more I listened to Lorna Shore and saw more of Will’s personality especially, they became my favorite band ever, and I’m old for their average demographic. I always loved heavy music, but as my ears adjusted, I had to listen to heavier and heavier until I got my fix. I heard “To The Hellfire” and I was like, “Finally! My unicorn!” If being able to hear the lyrics is important to him, I’d suggest checking out some of Will’s clean covers.

I am completely with you. I often listen to the music of the song a few times, then get lyrics and that either makes or breaks the song for me.

I think Will Ramos is so talented. Those ranges an gutteral lows were clear an crisp. He is upthere with Corey Taylor with the vocal control. 👍👍💯🔥

That piano version of Creep at the start was amazing.

I think Judson needs to check out the Pain Remains Trilogy, official video with lyrics, if he still feels the same way, chalk it up as a loss and move on

Try something from last year's Terrasite album by Cattle Decapitation. I think that they have more "space" in their music. Last track "Just another body" is very atmospheric.

Dude was so stressed out and sweating 😂😂😂

Soulless Existence might be something to try, I think that song strikes a really good balance between musicality and lyric focus. It doesn't have the blast beats going, and Will's vocal acrobatics are not on display in the same way as with other songs. Plus, the song is just amazing.

I think you should check out the band Wilderun. I believe it would be more suitable for Judson’s desired musical approach. The orchestration and musicality are more prominent. The lyrics have both clean and harsh vocals and are quite poetic, meaningful, and emotional. Their album, Veil of Imagination, is definitely one of the best albums released since 2019. It’s like they’ve divided a single long song into 8 songs. I would love for you to listen to the first two songs of the album, “The Unimaginable Zero Summer” and “O Resolution!” back-to-back.

I treat harsh vocals similar to an accent. The first few times you encounter an extremely different accent or even speed of speech, you're probably going to have trouble understanding them. The difference is that harsh vocals are unnatural and may require a different approach to gain an ear for, hence reading along with the songs. Harsh vocals can be understood with more exposure. Eventually, you will be able to understand the artists you go back to without needing lyrics. I will absolutely grant that without understanding any lyrics, it just sounds like noise. Once you are able to understand the lyrics, you may decide that the method of singing fits. As I understand it, this particular song is about the moment of dying and going to hell, and it sure sounds like there is some demonic stuff going down.

As a musician, what’s funny/interesting to me about this band is that they’re music is actually VERY traditional - harmonically and melodically speaking. I was hoping Judson would just play the G#min, D#min/G etc pattern on piano and demonstrate that stripped of the insane vocals, distorted guitars and 10 second cavernous reverb it’s a friggin Barry Manilow song. Lol

It is hard to explain exactly what it is about harsh vocals that I like. The best way I can think of currently would be to say it is like a spice or flavor that pops out in food that makes me go "ooo that's good". I like it, it tastes good, and I can't really put my finger on exactly why I just like it. For me personally the extreme vocal acrobatics in a genre like Deathcore can be a much at times. Like a dish that has been over seasoned, and now that spice that was nice has overpowered the other flavors. Sometimes the goal of the dish is to highlight a specific flavor, and when I crave that I get it and enjoy it. Personally I prefer a mixture of clean and harsh, or if it is all harsh it is done in a, and I really don't want this to come off as a dig but, in a more musical way. I want it to compliment and blend with what the song is doing musically as it takes me on the journey of the song. Basically, I want the flavors balanced in a certain way, a little salt here, a little pepper there, maybe some garlic and herb mixed in, I think you get the point. So bands like Ne Obliviscaris, Opeth, Between the Buried and Me can have songs with both clean and harsh, all harsh, and all clean and eash individual song has its own taste so to speak. There are other bands that can do what i'm talking sbout as well, those were just the first to come to mind. I like Deathcore, and many other subgenres of metal and all sorts of different applications of vocal techniques, but each one of those things serves its own purpose and I have different reasons for listening to them and different wants and expectations according to what I have choseb to listen to. I don't put on Aurora or Enya if I want to hear something super heavy. I don't put on Infant Annihilator if I want to hear something ethereal and melodic.

you guys are fun

Seeing as Judson is somewhat of a fan of Sleep Token's music and with his views on harsh vocals in loud music, I'd be very interested to see his take on Vore, what with the harsh vocals mixed with the clean chorus. Make it happen, Richard 🙏

hehe it looked like Judson was trying to dodge the music as it assaulted his ears :P Great video, Lorna Shore are one of my favorite bands, it's always great to see them on this channel!

I was quite lucky that the first band with harsh vocals I listened to was Dimmu Borgir around the time In Sorte Diaboli came out. I was a metal fan before then anyways, but Shagrath's vocal delivery sort of eased me into the more brutal styles, I believe. His voice is a lot more mallow compared to what deathcore vocalists casually do so I consider that -and maybe black metal singing in general -to be a good place to start.

in terms of lyrics and meaning of it. you should check out prison. johnny crowder is also really engaged in mental health support. the lyrics deal with depression, mental illnes and such. its such a blast listening to them. its just so relatable. the song "rape me" just makes me so insanly mad, its just so on point man.