[23:35] "Who uses capslock? SQL Engineers." Fuckin gottem

ofc he didn't turn off alerts

I wanted to learn about this keyboard but I ended up learning about a subculture of the sweatiest nerds I’ve ever seen. No hate, just an observation.

Glove80 user here. I adjusted the height once at the beginning and it is enough. Apart from that, I like the cheap feeling. My wife still hasn't asked me about the price.

I would rather pay extra to NOT have RGB thanks

ok, the moment you've started to search within the file system with terminal was super nice

I'm a freelancer dev and a hobbyist writer, so my life is basically a race to get enough money to buy an ergonomic keyboard before my hands stop working

The "stands" on the glove80, aka the legs, have been treating me quite well. The included ones are easy to adjust, and they have different height rods if you want to try more extreme tilting. It allows you to really fine-tune your exact tenting angle, and it isn't that finicky. They also ship with O-rings, which is nice to keep the legs locked just right. What I ended up doing, because I need extreme-ish tilting, was buying my own rods (which are of a standard size, m4 or something) and nyloc nuts (which they recommend in the user manual) and fixing the tenting angle on the rods to exactly what I want. They provide extra leg bottoms with the keyboard btw, so the only reason I had to buy anything was to go for extreme tilting.

2:26 plus the 1km long space bar we have on standard keyboards is not a very clever idea.

I have the wired version of this keyboard. I like it more than my advantage 2 that I also own. I like the fact you can spread your arms out wider and achieve a more natural ergonomic elbow position. Also, I upgraded the USB cable to 2 ft with RGB. Now I can type extra wide while still having that gamer feeling. I also bought the pads. Worth it for me. Love the magnet connection. Allows for easy cleaning.

This keyboard absolutely saved me from having to get carpel tunnel surgery and has allowed me to heal so much over the last 2 years that I can rock climb and do bench press again. Anyone who scoffs at the price needs to consider the medical bill and quality life change of ruined wrists. These keyboards are to programmers what professional running shoes are to athletes. I can still use a basic qwerty keyboard here and there when I'm on the move, the same way I can use Vans when I'm walking around. But if I have a programming session, I use this keyboard the way a runner would use proper running shoes to avoid injury. I know there are cheaper ergonomic split keyboards out there, but none check all of the boxes for me like the Kinesis Advantage 360 Pro does. It is so sturdy, I even use it when I'm laying on the couch or bed; I just put either half on the side of my body, and since it is split, it is small enough to snuggly fit in my messenger bag without worry of anything snapping or breaking.

I had a Kinesis Gaming keyboard that shorted out. Decided to try the ZSA Moonlander keyboard. Loved the ability to tent the keyboard but didn’t like the complexity. Company was nice enough to send me new rubber feet for free, though. I saw that the Kinese Gaming keyboard has a tenting attachment now. I immediately reordered the Kinesis Gaming keyboard with tent kit. My favorite setup yet. Neck pain is gone and I can assign stratagems to the macro keys.

john hammond would be flying around the room trying to type his name

My one wired consession was to get that logitech charging mousepad and wireless charging mouse. Means the cable goes neatly to the pad, and my mouse doesn't cable snag, but also never runs flat of charge. Its amazing.

You've been reaaaaaally making me want to try the Kenesis. Looks like it could help wrist pain when I obsessively hyperfixate on some code in all my free time for several weeks. The thumb cluster is certainly intimidating.

I definitely identified with the wrist pain issue. I experience that shooting pain when I get into heavy programming sessions; which is off an on enough that I never associated the pain to my keyboard ergonomics. I am an avid gamer as well and just figured my pain was from playing too long (which yes that is part of the issue); however, I play games pretty much every night and the wrist pain doesn't always present itself. Watching this video made me realize it is in conjunction with heavy programming sessions. The issue of reaching for the symbol keys is spot on. I use the [ ], ( ), and { } a lot and when you said that about reaching those it clicked. I don't ever use those keys in gaming, but am constantly using them in programming. I can't wrap my mind around the thumb clusters, so I don't think the Kenesis is the keyboard for me, but thanks to your chat I am now researching alternate keyboards mentioned (specifically looking at the Glove80 right now).

I read an old research paper a while back, they had found that few users who used a keyboard in excess of 8 hours per day complained about pain, that more who used just a mouse experienced pain, and that those who used both for longer than 7 hours a day were guaranteed to experience pain. You don't need an ergonomic keyboard or keyboard layout if you switch to a keyboard-driven workflow and avoid the mouse like the plague, but they sure are nice and I never looked back after switching to my dactyl 6x6. However if I get another, I will customize the stl for my finger length, get the 6x4 and use more mod keys.

Bought a Kinesis 360 (non-Pro) a couple months ago. My WPM is almost where it was with a TKL keyboard but I am much happier with this. First thing I did was remap the DELETE key to ESC, major upgrade for Vim life.

Been using the Kinesis for a few weeks now. Loving it. I tried getting the Ergodox a few years back, didn't work for me: the symbol layout (due to the lack of keys) was messed up. The concave key well also makes the ortholinear layout a lot more sensible, especially for people with tiny hands like me... being able to reach things with the pinky is neccessary!

@ThePrimeTime the dock is designed for multimedia developers, like if you have to link cameras, laptops, and other items. dealing with portable data for your station. this one is not for laptops directly but for bridging a desktop 'battle station' for all your other devices. heavily needed for some fields, mainly video production

strongly recommend looking into building your own kb if you wanna take the next step. I have a wireless split kb and have to recharge once every 6 month thanks to 10A batters on each side.

Got one of these recently once they had a pro version with pink switches. Game changer no more wrist pain from a previous injury. You can’t put a price on your health

I've just got a glove 80 and its great. Had never used a ergonomic keyboard before this now im all in changed to vim, engram key layout full touch typing

I used to think that having a Bluetooth keyboard would be a bad idea, but after using a wireless Corne with ZMK for 2 months, I've changed my opinion. ZMK supports wired mode (you don't even need batteries) so Bluetooth is an optional addon that helps when working with multiple PCs. I have mine wired to my main PC, and when i need to switch to my laptop, it's as simple as toggling between bluetooth/wired mode, and switching to a bt profile (there are 5). No need to swap cables between PCs. Also, you can have 5 active BT connections, so no noticable lag when switching bt profiles. In summary, wired works - Bluetooth is an optional addon. 🎉

@ThePrimeTime - I own Glove80 and its super light. Some may say its cheap because of that but its pretty sturdy IMO. Stands are good too just not something you can adjust quickly but its more precise

I really like the consistency that having the two halves fused gets you, Advantage2 4 ever

I have been a SWE for a couple of years now - a colleague of mine had a herniated disc - probably also because he cheaped out on ergonomics. Ergo doesn't need to be expensive either, before buying a $500 keyboard consider the following items: 1. Get a good chair - height adjustable (your back will thank you) made of a breathable material (sweating sucks) 2. Get a monitor that's height adjustable - if it isn't adjustable, prop it up with books. So that your neck is straight when you look at it. 3. Get a table that is tall enough so that your arms rest at a right angle ( Having arm-rests on the chair helps a lot!) 3. Get a keyboard - ergo or not. Avoid working with a laptop only - the hunched over position is really bad - leads to muscle tension and an overall bad posture.

Not ashamed to admit it, I got the Kinesis 360 because I saw you use it. Probably the best purchase I've made for my Software Development Career.

Love seeing ergonomics discussed. MoErgo keyboard I the goat. IMO. Worth checking out

I just ordered the 360 with kailh thick click navys.. got wired too I bought the glove80 with clicky whites bc kinesis stopped doing the upgrade keyboards deal for a while but now that they're back I had to get the thick clicks. Don't love the glove tenting solution.. otherwise it's great.. I'm happy that it is very close layout-wise so I'm just getting more and more ready for my 360

Switched to this keyboard on a whim a few weeks ago after seeing your unboxing video. Took about a week to adjust to it but I love it now, as it feels a lot more natural to use. I have never had any wrist problems with keyboards, though so I can't speak to any benefits in that sense. Minor typing speed improvements, thing it's the first time I have passed 100 wpm, but I think that is mostly due to using all of my fingers as previously I would only use index, middle, and ring finger on my right hand and would use my left hand to reach for some right hand keys.

I have a wireless JBL Quantum 810... The good thing about that headset it can do wireless through a wifi dongle, but also through bluetooth.. but now comes the neat part... It can also do wired through 3.5 mm jack... But ALSO through usb. And of course for the 3.5 mm jack you don't even have to turn it on.. and as for the usb cable... If the battery is completely drained then you need to plug the usb cable in and audio still works over usb.. but if the battery is completely drained then you do have to wait 2 minutes

You did experiment with a Dactyl Manuform at one point however. That combined with your absolutely insane proficiency in Vim is what got me hooked.

11:24 I can see why Primeagen has that order. I got the moon lander as it was an ortho-linear keyboard, now I'm looking into a keyboard with those things in mind. Either way it was a better choice for me, but then I realized there are better options. Moon lander is more customizable then the Kinesis, and I have done some that has improved the experience.Now I'm looking into a dactyl keyboard, but with so many options it is hard to choose one.

I use a ZSA Moonlander and its a unit. Reduced to 42 key layout and added some layers. So nice to have an ergo keyboard honestly, game changer no doubt.

"You depress the button" ... I literally laughed out loud.

I printed, built, and use a Dactyl Manuform as my primary keyboard. Absolutely love the freedom to recline back a bit and keep my arms spread apart while i write code

I got a split keyboard just a few weeks ago, the moonlander. And thus far I love it. my wrists have thanked me, Many reviews I watched on the moonlander before I got it said that they only use two of the four thumb keys. But Idk how, I use them all, all the time. btw. after a few weeks, my type speed is now about 50-70 percent of my normal is. still getting used to it

I am actually planning to buy this baby, I already have a vertical mouse since I could already feel the strain on my wrist using regular mouse. EDIT: I posted this comment before the video ended. I saw Glove80 at the end, and actually wanted to try it first since I do like to have dedicated Fn keys

The thing is that he compares to the off the self enthusiast keyboard product like the keyboards from keycron that also use qmk but they use vial which is a Browser app that you can give usb access in chome browsers to do all the configuring and flashing of qmk without the user needing to actually use qmk. The thing is that kenesis uses zmk which I don't know if it supports the use of vial.

My impression of his take on the reprogramming was that the pro keyboard should support the simpler GUI in addition to the ZMK support. That way the people that wanted to use the GUI for some simple changes could, but the more power users could continue to use ZMK if they wanted.

Having built my own split keyboard using the nice!nano as controllers, I have never had any problems with BT connectivity, also didn't think it could be that good

Shortcircuit is an unboxing/first impressions channel not a full review channel

I love my Moonalnder with their new tenting platform called 'Platform'. I've been very intrigued about the curve of Kinesis and Dactyl Manuform keyboards.

Overcompensating his small hands by typing aggressively😅

I have the Advantage360 (non-pro) and have been using various models going back to the Kinesis Classic (got mine in 2001). These are great keyboards though I have to admit, the location of the braces has always felt off. IMO, it feels more natural to map the custom (1-4) keys on the Advantage360 to the open/close curly and straight braces than to curl the 2 weakest fingers down 2 rows every time I need to type a brace...

Have you tried the Dactyl Manuform? I love it.

crone, sweep some of them if you get without led or a mini screen you can get away without charging them for 6 months. The are also split.

I have both the Advantage and Advantage2. I learned Dvorak in parallel when I got them. Now I context switch based on whether I am using the Kinesis or my gaming keyboard.

Went for the Dygma Defy after testing what their software for programming the layers could do. No flashing firmware, just ship the change config.

I’ll have you know that the VS Code short cut to view definitions is CMD+KI 😊

I’ve been using a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. Relatively inexpensive, but the wireless dongle has been extremely reliable, and the batteries last forever so charging isn’t an issue. Certainly beasts Bluetooth. That said, I think I need to upgrade to something that gives me more travel on the keys. I’m starting to get pain near my finger tips/ first joint.

@6:40 "you will exercise or you will experience strain, maggot!"

The glove80 is light but is extremely well built

I've never used ZMK based keyboards before, but can you program stuff like double tapping a key to make it do something different? Hold it to do something different? I make use of that in my QMK based keyboards quite a bit, and once you figure out how you want to set it up and get used to it it's incredibly nice. @32:52 if they'd used QMK they could possibly get VIA support on the thing, then you get the best of both worlds. Nice web based config for people that want that, and you can still compile your own keymap using QMK and get as train emoji as you want with it if you don't

Owning my Advantage 2 for 13 years now. Made me learn Dvorak and stick with it. Incredibly reliable keyboard. Did a QMK mod a year ago after spilling a large amount of water over it lol. Had one warranty claim within their warranty period back then and they just send me the needed replacement switch and let me solder it in myself without invalidating my warranty yeah! Lately I need more room on my table and am traveling a lot with my keyboard and am exploring the Corne v3 for that. But Kinesis is my biggest love in tech. Will probably add Mill Max sockets to make the switches replaceable.

Nothing better than 45 min of a man talking about his tool

I've used the adv2 for the last 4 years. I switched to it after I started getting pain in the first 2 weeks of a new job (I never had pain for 10 years of heavy computer use and programming before that, but the tasks I was assigned were nutty). The pain never went away, but I could keep having a job. I don't know what happened but something f'd up my fingers, especially my pink. Maybe a micro fracture who knows, I can't even hold a phone anymore. I was definitely someone who would type like a madman sometimes, but somehow my birdbones were fine until then.

Glove80 with lubed pro reds goes incredibly hard

Genuine question: I'm a software engineer and I want to move to keyboard only. But, I find myself using the browser or other stuff quite a bit, what do you do for those Primeagen? Thanks!

I have 4 layers on my ZSA Moonlander. 1. the normal layer 2. a layer with a numpad that I never use, and some symbols, function keys, and some other stuff (so I can write ö á å æ ø) 3. a layer so I can press a function key and a normal letter (so I can do F3 A, etc in Minecraft) 4. a layer with the reset button as well as some color controls, and a way to move the cursor and click using the keyboard. I mostly only use the first 2, then I use the last 2 in special situations.

oh man, that ctrl will freak up my muscle memory so bad

I used to use the ergodox and my biggest complaint was travelling with it. I mostly work from home, but would need to go into the office for a few days here and there and it was always a nuisance. I switched to a HHKB and it’s a pleasure to type on and easy to travel with.

I wonder if Prime ever tried Colemak or Workman? They are layouts that focus on getting your hands into a rhythm or every keeperless alternating your hands.

zmk + combos for symbols = pure love

Got myself a ZSA Moonlander a few months back. It's been an absolute gamechanger. They have a great software (Oryx) which lets you customize the keyboard. It actually flashes to the board itself so it persists, as in it doesn't depend on some shitty software running on the machine. I've tweaked my keyboard to be the perfect (for me) neovim beast. Highly recommend. The Kenesis looks nice as well (I had their split board before, but not the ergonomic one), but the Moonlander is in a league of its own IMO.

I am a huge fan of the ZSA moon lander. It has also upped my efficiency in my coding.

About the excercise tip: Once when I was still in an office I came and found an awful chair in place of mine. I never had (still never have) back pain, but then immediately got after two days. Guess what literally doing pushups through the day made it go - but then third day I also got rid of the chair (just stole someones haha)

I was always sceptical about wireless keyboards/mouse/gamepads but I recently bought Keychron mouse that supports wire(1000Hz),bluetooth(125Hz) and 2.4GHz(1000Hz and 4000Hz!) and it works so good at 1000Hz in 2.4GHz mode that they got me. I absolutely don't feel any lag, there is none instability, it is just perfect. On the other hand my older keychron keyboard works so bad on bluetooth that I use it only in wire mode, but ofc you are right, who really needs wireless keyboard for desktop.

Kinesis is good, but for whatever stupid reason I like the per key RGB. Back in my more "lets see what I can do with this" days, I compiled the keyboard kernel, and added in conditions in the C code to handle things like changing colors if my backspace hit a "wall".. to visually alert me for example. Plus with multiple layers made it a little nicer to switch to my gaming layer and see my ASDF and other keys lit up for specific games. However.. I haven't done that with my latest IRIS split board.. I ended up building multiple IRIS boards and now I use a specific one for gaming that uses linear switches, and by far the best coding switch, THE JADE for my daily driver IRIS. I had the Model 01 and I did like having tab and enter keys for my index finger but most of the split boards I've set up for right thumb space, left thumb enter now. The primary thing I miss on my 56 key keyboard is the F1 - F10 easy access for gaming purposes since a lot of games use those for various things. I can map those to a sub layer.. but a bit of a pain in the ass if you use them in a game that needs quick access to them. I ended up getting a StreamDeck for that purpose which works well enough though still pain in the ass to set up for each game, key combinations, etc. The Iris is a fantastic daily keyboard, you can 3d print cases if you want, they have some VERY expensive (I bought one) angled very heavy aluminum enclosures.. makes the keyboard cost about $500 with PCB, switch and caps.. but so worth it.. the two pieces do not move and ThePrime said weapon.. I can promise you THIS keyboard would break the CyberTruck glass.

Have you tried the vi keybinding in bash? (I'm sure you have... but hear me out. I switched to `set -o vi` about 20 years ago when my boss told me about it, and I've never looked back).

@ThePrimeTime do you plan to sell (and ship) the ones you don't use? I'm would like to buy one, but it is hard to get in Europe.

I've recently had my right ring finger amputated so might need to switch key layout. Split arrow keys take me back to playing games on my bbc micro where `zx.;` or `az,.` were typically used for direction input.

Dygma Defy is this guys dream. They have their software rgb tenting and it sound really nice

I use the 10 key pad quite a bit. The 0 on the thumb was a bit hard to find but good.

for those on the fence about soldered switches and dont want to splurge on the custom switches. i couldnt justify the upcharge for oil kings or the banana splits (or the time it takes) -- the silent pinks are actually kinda bussin. i can type light or heavy handed. sound is kinda hollow but imo its hollow in a good way. i came from a ferris sweep and a jelly epoch and i hand built both of them. the adv360 is a lovely combination of the two. deff doesnt sound as thocky as the epoch but is way more "ergo-bro" and comfier than the sweep. its just a huge joy to type and i would shill till i die. monkeytype while i listened to this btw -- 90wpm eng on recurva

4:08 I started preferring wireless when I got a Wacom Cintiq pro, the damn thing is huge and requires 3 cables to work, those 3 cables are now cluttering my desk so much to the point where I just want to get rid of as many cables as possible; I ended up getting a Corsair K63 wireless and a Logitech G-Pro Superlight, it has been my setup since 2020~ and never had any of the wireless related issues that people mention. I recharge them once a week overnight on a different desk and using a wall charger so I don't really have hidden cables tucked on my PC. On my other computer though I still run a wired 60% custom keyboard and a wired Kensington Slimblade.

The funniest part of the Advantage Pro being wireless, is that you actually need more usb ports than the non-wireless version. To plug the "wireless" version on 2 independent usb ports on the PC if you need to use while charging. While the non-pro only requires 1 usb to connect to a PC and 1 wire to connect a keyboard side to the other.

"pinky = garbage finger" cracked me up

keyboard enthusiasts often aren't willing to do much more than use the qmk configurator that creates a json of their keymap from a GUI, and compile with that keymap through the qmk client (never actually running make), and most will prefer that the keyboard supports via, which just lets them use a GUI and never have to compile anything. the non-engineer people willing to write their keymap in C are the people that want mega customization outside of normal layer/mod tap stuff

For remapping I use kmonad. It saved my pinky. And I managed to make my bar to indicate the layer I'm in. So it helped on the transition.

re: Glove80 legs 41:38 I think they are fine and give a lot of flexibility but they can be annoying to adjust correctly. several times now I've had one of the legs just fall off as I'm typing with the maximum tilting angle, they don't feel very stable after a certain height. The keyboard feels amazing though, and not cheap at all, I love the low profile keycaps. the only other problem is that the palm wrest plastic is glowing a bit after a few months of usage.. which doesn't look nice haha but the overall comfort is just nuts. best equipment investment i've made for sure

the thumb is the best finger in a lot of ways, yet very much underused on a standard keyboard.

I've done a repair on a housemates 360 Pro -- replacing a single switch and adding a bodge wire to fix a blown switch took over an hour with 8x magnification going. So if the third-party company is small then I can see the 6 month lead time being realistic

when you start some IA assistant project, or local llm examples?

I live in Brazil and is f-difficult to import any KINESIS keyboard, well, I paid twice its price and bought one, I'm currently in love with the keyboard. Prime, do you use any ZMK/QMK advanced feature in yours?

sending half a message after hitting enter instead of space bar happened several times, in the beginning.

regarding charging a wireless keyboard, i only charge my keyboard like 1 time per 2 or 3 months, i use the G915 TKL, i turn off LEDs, thats why its last so long, otherwise it would last like 3 weeks

You should try a corne or something, small keyboard are great, it's so fast and feels great when you get used to it it's like vim motions

Typing this on my Kinesis Advantage v1, still going strong. There are dozens of us! ;)

I love my full size standard keyboard, but I was pretty much born on one. One of my first toys was a fake laptop with a standard keyboard.

Any recommendations for something cheap? And by cheap i mean no more that $100 (preferably less). A live in a country with bad currency, and as much as i want a Kenisis.. that's my months salary.. But it is definitely time i get a split ergonomic keyboard..

5:17 I have the same standard for laptops. If you pick it up and you don't feel armed, it's probably a tablet, not a computer.

Thumb is for control,ALT and Space. Sometimes shift if you live dangerously.

"Look, a grown ass violent man with baby hands!"

I tried the kinesis advantage 2 a bit back and found that it actually hurt my wrists more than my Microsoft ergo keyboard…I don’t have diagnosed RSI or anything like that, but I just noticed more strain and a slight pain.

Wireless keyboard and mouse is good if you have a computer across from a bed or couch, like a media PC. although in my Dad's case he's mostly paralysed so it's his everything PC across from his bed (with walkable space in between as well)

I have the Moonlander. I've really enjoyed it. I do have 2 layers... One for Mac and one for PC. The only difference is swapping the windows/Mac key with Ctrl lol.

The fact that this video came out now and I’m currently dealing with an RSI. I need to get one of these keyboards I think (I’ll get a cheaper one though)

Prime needs to get a microTron/üTron. Have had 3 split boards and oh boy, if I ever saw that one sale... Topre sounds the absolute best imo