yes you can also use takfei instead of dehya/zhongli~

Man, we need another off-field Pyro, almost all of them are either on-field or a buffer/utility.

The game is over when we get a hydro claymore user who scales with HP and uses the bell

"Hu Tao vapes differently than Lyney but Lyney still vapes" 10/10 quote, amazing out of context

With the amount of pyro characters we got I think Natlan will focus on physical instead of pyro lol.

For people that actually main the characters, we always find ways to play them. I've played Yoimiya on Mono-Pyro, Vape, Overvape, Burning, Burgeon, Overload, Melt, and Melt/Vape/Freeze. I've seen people say they want something different for Pyro but they never elaborate. To me the only things pyro is missing is; another reliable off-field pyro applicator like Xiangling or another Bennett/Chevreuse. It's not like the DPS from other elements are anymore versatile than pyro. They're all locked into whatever reactions their elements limit them to.

The Fontaine craftable bow is not Finale of the Deep (that’s the sword), the bow is Song of Stillness

Every archon so far has EXCELLENT off-field element application. If our lady of War will stay on trend we might finally get to see xiangling kicked off her throne of best pyro sub-DPS/support!

Charged shot archers in this game feel like they are the most skill-dependent units, because your DPS heavily depends on your aiming. But at the same time, they are the most "playable" units, in terms of actually "playing" the battle as you like. You are free to pick any target, and you are less restricted with your movements (because they don't use stamina for power-attack). And the auto targeting doesn't mess with your intentions all that much. They have their downsides, as every type of character has, but for me they are the most satisfying to play.

Imo Yoimiya does have a niche. Since her damage is respectable and her playstyle is considered rather intuitive, lots of people do not mind trading the higher damage of powerful but harder to maneuver dpses for some comfort. It might be my mobile player bias as well, but I've found her especially convenient there

I think the "Pyro DPS Problem" is a problem that's going to hit every niche, eventually. We have very few roles left: We don't have hydro or Anemo shielders, for example, but we shielders of every other type (if you count Beido's shield.) Eventually it will just be differences between Shielder characters, for example Layla and Diona. On the other hand, I'm encouraged by the new type of play styles brought in by Xianyun and Chevrous. Xianyun in particular is just fun, leaping into the air and doing plunge damage. If Genshin can keep that up, it will be interesting at least.

I've been running Lyney, Xiangling, Bennett, and Zhongli since he came out and he's an absolute pub stomper.

All of the Archon so far have been off field. Venti = Burst support. Zhongli = Skill Support + Burst Petrification. Raiden = Burst support + Electro Skill application. Nahida = Skill support + Burst EM Buff. Furina = Skill support + DMG Enhancer. None of them are on field DPS aside from Raiden's 7 second burst. All are (In my mind) top tier supports for their element.

I personally have fun playing quickswap with Lyney/Navia team with Bennett and Xiangling. Navia’s burst with crystallize gives Lyney some interruption resistance and swapping to Navia to do the skill is so much fun for me

I love Lyney

My main hope for Natlan is that Xbalanque and Murata finally kick Bennett and Xiangling off their lofty perch. They've had a near total chokehold on Pyro that is honestly really annoying as neither of them are particularly interesting as characters or even cool to look at. 🙏

Lyney without a shielder is both easier and more complex than you think - If you can get one of Lyney's hats close enough to an enemy, the hat will taunt then and the enemy won't even aim at Lyney, which means that you don't get hit and are less likely to be interrupted - but some enemies (mostly bosses) are immune to taunt, some enemies have attacks that can hit you while they are aiming at the hat, some enemies will switch target to you mid-attack if the hat that taunted them stops existing, and some attacks can't target constructs and will cause the user to attack Lyney directly even while they are currently taunted by a hat (most such attacks cause some kind of marker to appear on their target, like Ruin Guard missiles).

Two tips: Chevy's curation help lot with Maracheusse stacks, and Healer Furina actually make sense in somo scenarios for Lyney, and actually, its the only team where i think furina can use her two modes at full

The benefit of the 2pc 2pc ATK% is also Lyney being able to immediately use his burst instead of needing to charge attack first two times before burst. There’s more freedom with how you decide to do the rotation

I love his multipliers for mono pyro, can help really ramp his damage up. I’m in a situation where I can also build up a plunge Diluc for one side of the abyss, and then use Mono Lyney for another side, fun stuff!!

Lyney is my favorite character to just nuke the abyss he’s actually really fun for a bow ca character. I was completely uninterested in him until we met him in story and saw his gameplay, now I have his c3 and bow😭 I heard Lyney might be better than Father at the moment based on her current kit and it wouldn’t surprise me as I’m confident he’s at least the top 5 dps atm not far behind Neuvi in clear time. Very underrated and he’ll only get better once Natlan drops if they finally make better off field pyro characters that aren’t 4*💀

Important notice for Marechausse Hunter i previously found: Stacks are increasing per 5 sec if HP flows every 5 sec, but once it exceeds 5 sec, your active character will lose all stacks. It means stacks are not independent to each other, they have 1 timer, which really makes it easier to stack for Lyney and many other characters who struggling with this mechanic

Yoimiya's niche is being able to turn brain off and mash left click while everything around you dies. Very comfy character to pilot. She also works really well with Fischl and Chevreuse since her high attack speed synergizes with the c6 Oz follow ups.

I don't know how well Chiori works with Lyney, but I think the community slept on Chiori, highly underrated especially with vertical investment.

Arlecchino teams are basically the same as Yoimiya teams. If Yoimiya doesn’t have a niche, neither does Arlecchino.

[6:44] There's C4 *Tankfei* too! 🥺 (which is already pinned here, but to explain: she *shields* on burst and may either *heal* with *Prototype Amber* or give even more ATK with TTDS... plus she can go for Noblesse, that new healing set or Maiden - which also serves to buff Chevreuse's healing further.)

Lyney is amazing i pretty much use him every time when i go abyss or domains also getting his C1 instead of arlecchino because double cat!!

My problem with lyney is that I hate all bow charge attackers except tighnari, tighnari is fun

I love that you are a masher - I like min maxing to a point but if rotations are too strict, I don't get to enjoy the visuals of the reactions or feel of combat as much cuz I'm too busy counting how many NAs& dash cancels I've done lol

awesome insight! thanks for your expertise!

Thank you for this updated video on lyney, I couldn't decide if i wanted to wish for him or not now that we have furina

I REALLY enjoy playing Zhongli and Chiori as a tag team! Combining them with Bennet and Lyney is a great idea 👍🏻

FIRE!! (Literally)

I think the main reason for there being no Bennett or xianling alternative is that hoyo with some more recent exceptions really doesn’t like to make characters that are out right better than others at least in genshin, how do you make a unit that is only sometimes or usually better better than either of those two who are the most versatile pyro options right now? I think for Bennett it needs to be a xingu vs yelan type deal where the newer gives even more damage but no healing(similar to yelans damage buff but non of xingu defensive utility), as for xianling, maybe a skill based off fielder to not have energy issues or a pyro aplicater that applies a lot of pyro but does it in many hits making them worse for vaping there own hits

I always love Lyney as a 5 star character

Yeah the issue with all charged shot users is they often loose their DPS REGARDLESS of the interruption: because if you dodge, you still loose your charge, even if you don't get hit.

The problem of pyro is Xiangling

YIPEEEE Jello Impact upload :D

We need more/better pyro supports. A dedicated off field pyro applicator THAT IS NOT BURST DEPENDENT would be a huge QoL update for the element.

Finally someone that shows a non-Bennett team in their Liney guide video xD I was actually thinking on this exact team (but instead of Yae, I was considering Kuki, because I thought electro subdps would override the pyro aura, and with Kuki's skill I would be able to walk in an out of enemy range to apply electro when needed). Anyways, I don't have Chevreuse C6, but this team seems very nice to play and I'd like to try someday xD

The Lyney - Bennett - Chiori - Zhongli you liked was actually Lyney's second most favorite team last Abyss. The reason is pretty clear in that Xiangling has to actually vape to out damage two doll Chiori. Chiori with Zhongli also adds Geo resonance with the damage bonus for Lyney.

I know arlechino isn't out yet, but for me she seems like a huge disappointment. Not because she will be weak, but because she will be same old, same old. I love the idea of a high risk high reward DPS, but Hu Tao is already that character... With the same weapon AND the same element. I think it would be so much cooler, and so much more on-character if she was a off-field dps or a support. Maybe she could keep the idea of bond of life but apply it for the whole party, and while it was active, no one could be healed except by arlechino. While the bond was above 30%, whenever the on field character attacks, she would do a follow-up pyro attack (like Raiden's) and consume some of the bond. When she used the burst, it would heal the whole party for some amount. How cool would be the idea of arlechino holding the entire party hostage to her bond of life?

Damn time to get a 2pc 2pc now ;w; lyneys my favorite characrer and i want him to be the strongest he can be

Beard looks good on you. Also, great video :)

I also have built every single character (bar klee who is the only one im missing, been playing since nov 28th 2020) Because marechausse was not as consistent on him is why I use the lava set on Lyney its like having his passive doubled which is way more efective and more quickswap friendly to use . I also think it might be fun to use Lyney as a quick swap pyro support and use the arrow shots for a bit of off field dmg too. Favonius Bow/ Elegy of the end The Exile/ Noblesse oblige In case you already have lyney and want to use it with father as his pyro battery sub quickswap dps. Also the way you abuse yoimiya its with summons, throw all your off fields one each second after the other so they overlap for the icds then yoimiya burst. an interesting combination is layla ,Fischl, yao yao

Daily reminder that you can increase your amount of Party Slots from 10 to 15. Also, nice video! I quite liked your takes.

honestly, the only way i see Pyro Archon being a good off fielder is for her to be this fusion of Bennett and Xiangling.... as for the Pyro Suvreign, they're probably going to be another dps

Maybe they're holding off the different combinations for pyro since Natlan has not released yet. We may receive different types of pyro when it release.

I plan to pull for Arlecchino, even tho I already have both Hu Tao and Yoimiya bc I already 36* stars abyss regularly. I don't care if she's gonna improve my account. While I agree that Pyro DPSes overlap each other a lot, I think it's also nice for a character not to lock in 1 specific team. From the detail in live stream, I think I'm gonna put Arlecchino in Chevreuse team with Fischl and Beidou. I know Bennett buff her atk a lot but bc she can't get heal from Bennett's burst and Bennett apply pyro to her and she might get 1 shot by some bosses.

For now Lyney is strongest pyro 5 star ! Until we see how strong this new 5 star pyro character is

I wonder if the new burning set would be good for him

Also I have been trying to decide between getting Lyney right now or getting Wanderer They are both my favorites and I already prefarmed everything for wanderer but still- What should I do?

I didn't know how frustrating Lyney is to play when I got him and I honestly hate him lol. I would probably enjoy him more at c1, but without a shield I can't play him at all. Props to you for mentioning this in your video, so people are aware before pulling for him. That Chiori team sounds super comfy, too bad I don't have her, I would have loved to try it.

I don't mind them making pyro the element with a lot of on field DPS. I'm just incredibly angry they haven't made any proper character the can apply pyro off field well, so we finally have an alternative to Xiangling. They can absolutely make the pyro archon (and sovereign if we get that) an off field/support character, if they apply pyro well from off field, that will make them incredibly good. That's just how bad they've been at balancing the roles within pyro. I never though of Chevreuse as a DPS, is that just me or did I misheard..? Anyway, just my opinion, but I think she's the best pyro character we've had since Hu Tao. Not for her damage, but for what she brings to the element itself.

He's already testing arlecchino 👀👀👀

So many pyro dps and we havent even reach the pyro nation yet 😢. I was cheering for lyney to be a pyro subdps that can replace XL but hoyo hv to go and make him a dps to compete with his father but well at least he is one of the strongest (if u can play him well)

jello my guy, lyney's feels terrible in this abyss it's because of the abyss, even c0 neuvillette will feel bad with no resistance to interruption in this abyss, like ya his resistance to interruption is a problem but it's for every other character for this abyss, it's not just a lyney problem is what i mean to say

i love lyney sm got him and his weapon on his 1st banner and now im going for cons! happy to hear he can have more teams than mono pyro! ill try overloaded when i get cheveruse

im so happy got i chiori

i am surprised there was no mention of animation cancels for lyney (og ganyu technique), it's a significant dps and comfort boost.

I love Lyney sm, he's my boy and easily my most favorite I can't wait to see if he gets buffed in Natlan

We have already had a chance of testing Lyney and I agree 100% that he is not easy to play without interruption resistance... Wait, isn't it the same about C1 Neuvillette? :) These guys are so easy to knock down. :(

I can hardly want to power-wash Natlan with my newly obtained Neuvillette 😃🚿

He's like a update of Yoimiya, I suppose? Yoimiya costed me quite a bit of gems, but she is pretty good. But who knows, we may get the sovereigns even from the already released nations, like Cloud Retainer taking human form.

Yoimiya's great at overvape with all the off-fielders who trigger off normal attacks. Breaks shields brilliantly even without Zhongli.

17:20 wait wait wait, hol up. So you say that phys plunge Lyney with Bennett, Xinyan and Xianyun is not viable???

I agree with your hopes about a pyro Sovereign as well as an Archon. I really hope they become a new "theme" of characters (and go back and do Anemo/Geo/etc.)

are we sure that running 2pc 2pc is better in a kazuha team comp? don't we get enough pyro damage from him (1k+em) and the goblet? considering that him with sig/aqua is gonna have a LOT of cdmg, i really think that crate is a way more valuable stat? but i trust your calculations more than mine, so please let me know!

I actually use yanfei as a shielder for my Lyney team. She always has her ult up in the rotation and it will keep triple pyro.

what was that censor bar?

Maybe use Kuki (full EM) in the overload team it is an easy way to heal Lyney back to get 5 stacks for his skill and it helps with keeping the marechaussee hunter 4 piece bonus. If you have c4 Kuki then she can apply electro (every 5s) with Lyney's attacks too. It may not be the best Lyney team, but I use: Lyney (C1, Marechaussee), Chevreuse (C0, Noblesse), Xiangling (C6, Emblem), Kuki (C6, Guilded dreams) It has a fast cleartime for me without resets

I use diluc and lyney as my dpses, while xiangling when I need something off field. I got c1 lyney today on my birthday. So he’s c1r1 now. I will wait for the pyro archon. I expect them to buff lyney.

Lyney Bennett Zhongli and albedo where you stand on the flower is my most comfy/fav team. I wish I had Dehya 😭

my current fav Lyney is Lyney Double Geo (Chiori Zhong Li). It’s super comfy to play.

As you said the pyro squad does the same thing,but they all do it differently so if a player for example is not a fan of hutaos ca cancel playstyle they can do diluc plunge or yanfei/klee etc. its good to have options(assume the player has the characters/can pull them). Yoimiya really is....niche,she isnt bad but very restricted to single target/2 targets per wave at most,if there are 3 or more enemys per wave her dmg just cant keep up.but if the conditions are right she can really pull her weight.given that she is the only real "ranged" pyro dps she does have the benefit of having the option to put space between herself and the enemy,unlike tao or diluc who need to be in cqc range. As far as i been told Arlecchino will play similar to yoimiya but has some really good range for a melee unit,i for one look forward in using her in my yelan/xingqiu/xianyun plunge team without the need to spam ca ala hutao or in my chev team with beidou/fischl or yae.

I hope that natlan does something interesting with pyro

I feel the need to comment in regards to Chiori, I love her. She is a favorite of mine.

3:05 Finale of the Deep is a sword, the craftable you mean is Song of Stillness

I am a Lyney main. The comfiest Lyney team for me consists of Bennet, Xiangling and Baizhu. I used mono Pyro for quite a long time so dodging while charging is not a big problem. Baizhu provides constant burgeon demage and a lot of healing. Maybe there is someone else who'd also enjoy this team:3

I got Yoimiya very late as I was waiting to have an overflow of primos and/or get her early and not go to pity since I already had Klee and HuTao - but at the time I got her she actually did a bit better than HuTao in a number of Abyss chambers. Since Furina and Xianyun however .. HuTao is just ridiculously op. During Xianyun dps she even stomped my R1 Neuvilette, with a Deathmatch. Yoi still absolutely fine for bosses or waves with few enemies, but if there's 3+ enemy waves, resistances, shields, or aggressive enemies she drops off hard. Tried her in current Abyss side 1 and it was painful. Doable, but only if side 2 carried pretty hard. But! Yoimiya is very nice for floor 9, 10, sometimes 11 as very few dps can kill enemies spread over the entire arena that quickly, so at least a QoL pick to get the fluff chambers out of the way.

Said it right, i guess they gonna change things in natlan

My main team is Lyney/Chevy. It’s definitely not easy but the neuron activation on those damage numbers make it worth it.

Kinda crazy that neuvilette reran before lyney

Is the “bond of life” mechanic gonna be the theme of future Natlan character or just only tied to the Fatui ?

We have 2 great C4 characters for this element. Bennett and Xiangling. They can pretty much do anything you want for pyro characters: buff and have a good sub-dps off-field. They fit in any team, you don't need a pyro DPS unless you really love the character.

I love "Xbalanque" name... in mayan and spanish speaking sounds so good

Yoimiya is good now with chevreuse.

To me because the pyro region is coming out, all Pyro characters from now till the Archon is release that isn't a Support, will be obsolete. Why? Because you know the Archon will be better than all top Fire units in support and maybe in DPS, and if not DPS wise, the Archon will have a unit like Alhaitham/Neuvillette who will be overpower as DPS to pair with the Archon.

I hope Natlan brings more pyro supports instead of dps, though I've already seen leaks about at least 1 pyro dps that's supposedly Neuvillette level. I just hope the archon is like Furina/Nahida, and provides consistent pyro application and buffs. I want to bench Bennett. I can deal with the circles, but that doesn't mean I want to..

Pyro Archon and Pyro Sovereign ahead yessirrr i think skipping arlecchino wont be as bad as i thought

Wished Lyney had a quick-charge level 2, like Tighnari.

Yeah I use Yanfei and Hu Tao and so didn't see the point of pulling Arleccino or Lyney. I see it as a good thing since I can stack wishes for other characters

As a mobile-only player, you know what charged attack bow user they did right?? Tighnari. He is the only bow user outside of Fischl I've ever felt comfy playing on mobile. I wanted to love Lyney so bad, but I can't make him work on mobile (skill issue)

When we first time hear arlecchino release they were saying arlecchino is good with chevruse and that felt like pyro had good future but now she is more like hu tao sidegrade... And they should make an off-field character for pyro element that buffs pyro-swirl reaction(or maybe an artifact set) since mono pyro teams with kazuha is so good. Kazuha as main dps might have a chance to have a good upgrade with both burning reactions. I think burn dmg does so less dmg idk much of it tho. Overload and burning does nothing good as a reaction compared to others tbh so they should make chevruse-like characters more often or artifact sets but kazuha must be in that team or maybe venti even

On the talk of overload of Pyro DPS talk, Honestly Genshin ironically has the inverse problem that HSR does. HSR is very blatantly strongarming you into building the various types of of team compositions if you want to excel at the end game. It's not inherent bad, but it's a far cry from being a casual friendly game. Genshin meanwhile drags their feet with actually giving these more distinct DPS characters. The only true one we've gotten in recent memories is Nilou.

Did you just kinda ignore Lyney/Zhongli/Xiangling/Benny? Sounds like it kinda fixes all your issues... You have a shield, Zhongli has access to Petra (more reliable than ToM in my book in a mono comp), you get all Lyney stacks. You have heal and powerful off field dmg. For the rest I feel some characters have a niche but the devs don't support said niche. Imo Inazuma was a mess... While they successfully "saved" Kokomi, they kinda failed with other undertuned units... From Raiden's beta it's obvious to me they planned to do something a bit different and have a dual carry/NA based gameplay going on. Ayato, Yunjin and arguably Yelan support this idea. Even Kokomi and Shimenawa are tied to NA. They ended up going in a different direction and the whole region was messy, to this day I still think Yae is a failure and far from being saved by Dendro. But at release Yae/Raiden was a massive fraud (90 energy, long ass cooldown, meh sub dps with no other utility, what were they trying to push?) So while I'm glad they manage to make some older units relevant again (Klee, Diluc, Keqing, Xiao recently). I feel every region has its dose of big fails or forgotten units (Albedo, Eula, Yoimiya, Cyno, Chiori etc...). Some of those are beyond saving or you just need to massively invest into premium teams with teamates that would simply perform better elsewhere. I think some units can still be saved. Overall the game has remarkable balance for a gacha. I'm curious about what Natlan will do with Pyro. I also wouldn't mind if Pyro archon is a support of some sort and Pyro Sovereign a sub DPS. Generally you can sell the on field carry approach with cons and make anyone OP at C6 (Furina, Chiori etc...). It's time to end Bennett and Xiangling's reign, but not in a violent manner. Just give people too many team options and make everyone relevant. We tend to play buffers together for bigger dmg, but if 2 Natlan characters/Xiangling/Benny is a new best Pyro team, it means there's no Hydro/Cryo/Anemo involved, and people want to play reactions. As long as we keep having 4 characters teams I don't think alternatives for Benny or Xiangling would be too broken.

Your last section nailed it for me. I don't have a pyro dps on my acct despite plenty of other good teams. So Arlecchino will fill that role and I won't need another. Kind of sad.

i might actually build burgeon thoma because he's the only pyro dps that actually does something different with pyro.

I know you priotise comfort and enjoyment but a tip I'd give is that you don't have to max out his stacks its really better to just use his bust and skill immediately after using your supports abilities this is because they get all the buffs you current have and act as huge nukes but with constantly charge attacking by the time you use your burst and skill you lose your buffs which is a big damage loss. This is move is also better gameplay wise as you're doing less charged attacks which means less stress with teams without zhongli. You only really need to do about 2 charge attacks per rotation.

They need to stop on field dps with pyro and give us off field more. If you can't stand xiangling and Bennett you just really don't get an off field choice (unless Chev who is legit great imo). It feels like pyro is in this stance of being stuck in time for years. It wasn't until Chev that FINALLY we got a change but it's a niche pick and not a more generic choice. Hope Natlan gets a Bennett sidegrade since we need it badly.