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Machining a King-Way Camelback Straight-Edge Rough Casting

  Рет қаралды 39,888

Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org

Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org

7 жыл бұрын

Myself and a few other guys recentely purchased camelback straight edge castings from Richard King at King-Way Consulting to use a project for an upcoming scraping class. In this video, I will go through the steps that I took to machine five surfaces on the straight edge in preparation for hand scraping. Both my Kearny & Trecker 2H Horizontal and Wells-Index vertical milling machines were used to machine this casting.
For information on purchasing straight edge castings, visit the King-Way Consulting web site and contact Richard King through his site at handscraping.com
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Пікірлер: 93
@rustyshackleford928
@rustyshackleford928 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Keith. I'm just getting into scraping but have been watching you for years. Blast from the past!
@yokomzare201
@yokomzare201 7 жыл бұрын
I have four cast iron flat plates all scraped in to 40 points/inch. I learned scraping while employed at Kingsbury Machine in Keene NH. I was employed at Kingsbury for 27 Years. In the early years of my employment, Kingsbury acquired a company named You Hansen grinders. That Venture did not last more than 2 years, But I did learn from two trained way scrappers from the old Country. I own my own scrappers still, but lost my power flaker to a stupid part of mine to lone it to skilled trades at Chrysler in Indiana. I love to watch scape on KZfaq. I still coach and instruct this process when needed at my present position at the Kokomo transmission plant to keep th old girls working as correct as possible. Enjoy this channel so much. Thank You Keith
@yankiedandie
@yankiedandie 7 жыл бұрын
Yokom; most of the scraping groups are out in the midwest, would you have any interest leading a group in the Northeast?
@billsargent3407
@billsargent3407 7 жыл бұрын
Ahh Kingsbury. What a crying shame that the company finally folded. I work next door to that immense blue building and remember the days when it was so busy that it had its own rail sidings...
@janneaalto3956
@janneaalto3956 7 жыл бұрын
After having taken so many naps in the factory while the machine was completing a long automatic cycle, I keep falling asleep while watching these videos. The sound of metalwork is just so soothing.
@bcbloc02
@bcbloc02 7 жыл бұрын
Always nice to see the horizontals in action. Shop is really looking good.
@ScottandTera
@ScottandTera 7 жыл бұрын
Keith rucker rules.. loved the video.. Now that i have been making videos for my own you tube channel I now know first hand the time and effort that goes into making videos getting the right shot . So i want to thank you for the time and effort you put into your videos and channel
@charlescompton4495
@charlescompton4495 7 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed the process; it went by pretty quick but all the info was there. I know when I was demonstrating bricklaying skill to my classes I only went into the basics to keep down distractions. You've learned the skill of keeping our attention very well as far as I can see. Thanks again Keith from Southern Ohio, Greg.
@johnstrange6799
@johnstrange6799 7 жыл бұрын
It's great to see you set up in your home shop to where you can do multiple operations on various machines. Hope it'll be a long and productive summer.
@kerrygleeson4409
@kerrygleeson4409 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for sharing Keith
@yokomzare201
@yokomzare201 7 жыл бұрын
scrapping cast iron is like painting a fine painting to Me. Maybe some will recognize the true art in at a later date.
@robroiboi
@robroiboi 7 жыл бұрын
ALWAYS fun to watch your videos
@williambarrett7108
@williambarrett7108 6 жыл бұрын
it is great that you always remind me of machining basics.I tend to forget because I am new to this and I get excited about it!
@jankjensen222
@jankjensen222 7 жыл бұрын
Can´t wait for your scraping video!!
@skiptracer8703
@skiptracer8703 7 жыл бұрын
Nice work Keith
@WillyBemis
@WillyBemis 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@randomdude1786
@randomdude1786 7 жыл бұрын
cool video making machinery better is always cool though. you've done a lot of that and your videos just keep getting better and better. its fun watching you put that whole shop together I know the feeling
@experiencingtechnicaldiffi5184
@experiencingtechnicaldiffi5184 7 жыл бұрын
Good video but a couple of suggestions; Clamp the part down on the largest non machined surface for the first cut, not on some tapered shims and praying it won't move. Make as many cuts as possible with as few setups as possible to utilize the accuracy available in the machine and tooling. Example, mill bottom and right angle in one setup and they will be aligned with the base casting. It still amazes me that I see so many mills on you tube that have no protection for the ways behind the saddle, especially when dumping cast iron dust on them. A few dollars worth of pond liner and some metal strips can save a machine from a great amount of wear. If you check with landscapers you may be able to get some leftovers for very little. Attached with magnets, hooks or clamps it is easy to remove for cleaning. I have built them with "French cleats" so they could be removed when cleaning or they were in the way. I am not trying to be pedantic but everyone talks precision yet many don't take the steps to use and preserve the precision built into their machine. Mike (o\!/o)
@MartinE63
@MartinE63 7 жыл бұрын
Keith, love the content, no doubt the camera perspective is a bit different to real life but several times I found myself looking away as you pointed things out seemingly very close to the cutters.. Get a disposable plastic or wood pointer and keep those fingers!
@ianbutler1983
@ianbutler1983 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks Keith, I'd love to see scraping.
@outsidescrewball
@outsidescrewball 7 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed!
@clydecessna737
@clydecessna737 7 жыл бұрын
I am not sure exactly why, but that was particularly pleasant video.
@dananelson3534
@dananelson3534 7 жыл бұрын
You said it right the first time, it's not a finished project. I see you're thinking ahead. :)
@charlesmarlin6632
@charlesmarlin6632 7 жыл бұрын
Great Video Keith!! :-) Very Helpful!!
@tonymarshall5477
@tonymarshall5477 7 жыл бұрын
love the Milwaukee
@baccus61
@baccus61 7 жыл бұрын
Many ways to skin a cat but I would have set it on it's side and machined both end and top in one setting then the other faces. The end result will be the same though. After machining I would leave the tools outside for a week or so for nature to do some stress relieving on them. Love your vids Keith.
@kevCarrico
@kevCarrico 7 жыл бұрын
great video!!!
@LarsBerntzon
@LarsBerntzon 7 жыл бұрын
A separate scraping video would be really nice.
@chrisstephens6673
@chrisstephens6673 7 жыл бұрын
Logic would dictate the first set up is with the largest flattest surface clamped to the mill, not one with two drafts.
@intjonmiller
@intjonmiller 7 жыл бұрын
Chris Stephens That was what I was thinking, except with drifts. ;)
@StefsEngineering
@StefsEngineering 7 жыл бұрын
I would love to participate in one of those scraping classes. Unfortunately I do not live anywhere remotely near where Richards business is or where he goes. (I live in the Netherlands). Oh well, I do get a taste of the experience by watching your video's!
@blacksiddha
@blacksiddha 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video Keith. Look forward to seeing the scraping class postings (enjoyed the last one) and the camel back being scraped video. May I ask a naive question?.. At the end where you show the finished milled part, when the part is flat on the table the foot of it sits flat and appears, by eye, to be a sharp point. With the exception of your right hand side nearest the camera. There is a shadow under it which appeared again later when the part was moved elsewhere on the table. Is this the relaxation of the piece as you described? or a low point in the casting? or just a visual illusion?
@marcelpost4052
@marcelpost4052 7 жыл бұрын
Funny, the sound of a fly buzzing past at 2:01..
@davidgoodrich4745
@davidgoodrich4745 7 жыл бұрын
Hey keith i appreciate your talent and video production ability. I also want to point out a trend i've noticed in your shop and many other's doing machinist video's.........UNPAINTED INTERIOR WALLS!! I will gladly whitewash (interior restoration for a restoration guy) for a mere fee of a new video. my skills with a roller exceed one with a lathe/mill . all in jest seriously. just an observation.
@davidhoward2237
@davidhoward2237 7 жыл бұрын
thanks for another great one, any plans next months to do casting?
@Kolokotrones
@Kolokotrones 7 жыл бұрын
Great vid! Is the sight glass leaking oil?
@iamthetarget52
@iamthetarget52 7 жыл бұрын
Why did you use aluminum(?) flat stock under your risers during the first operation? Is the Steel Riser on in the bed a bad idea?
@copisetic1104
@copisetic1104 5 жыл бұрын
Do you cold treat these to stabilize the casting.
@k5at
@k5at 7 жыл бұрын
Gary Cude sells the camel backs.
@obaat5043
@obaat5043 7 жыл бұрын
Richard, quick question, would there be any value to mounting this into a surface grinder and hitting all the machined surfaces before moving on to the hand scraping, or would the time and effort required to do so be better spent just taking it from where it is and scraping it flat? Also, just came across your video series on building your foundry, and after watching it I did a little looking around to see you putting it into use, but couldn't find anything. Have you used it yet, or has it been back burnered due to everything else you have going on? If so, I completely understand, only so many hours in a day, but really am looking forward to seeing you use it, as I also enjoy watching when SV Seeker puts out the occasional casting video.
@AdventuresinFabrication
@AdventuresinFabrication 7 жыл бұрын
If all you had was a Bridgeport, which surface would you have used as the reference surface? What other changes to machining order would you have made? Most of us don't have a horizontal mill.
@jamiebuckley1769
@jamiebuckley1769 7 жыл бұрын
bye a right angle milling head and now you turn your vertical mill into a mill with horizontal capeabilities. i have one of these heads for my 9x49 atrump 2v mill. funny thing is ive owned it from new and its never been out of the box yet. maby someday i will try it. the cost for one of these heads is about $700-$1000 dollars.
@Blazer02LS
@Blazer02LS 7 жыл бұрын
Once you have the bottom scraped in will you measure everything to be sure the 45 and bottom are parallel with the back edge and each other?
@duobob
@duobob 7 жыл бұрын
The surfaces are used individually, so all they really need to be is flat. Parallelism and accurate angles are not required. Still, why not do a workmanlike job like Keith did, and maybe those close angles will come in useful for something at some point.
@Blazer02LS
@Blazer02LS 7 жыл бұрын
The 45 angle has to reference off the bottom surface. It wouldn't be very useful to check a 45 degree dovetail if it wasn't.
@duobob
@duobob 7 жыл бұрын
The 45 degree angle is used for spotting larger angles, like 50 or common 55 degree dovetails. The actual angle of the machine's dovetails does not really matter, what matters is that they fit the mating dovetail, that both angles are the same. The straightedge is carefully held up and rocked until it had good contact with the dovetail, and then moved back and forth to transfer the ink It is a learned art. Using a 45 degree straightedge to mark up a 45 degree dovetail would not work.
@eddie1330
@eddie1330 7 жыл бұрын
Hello What is wrong with just surface grinding thr edges? grinding is good enough for a lathe bed Eddie Harper
@jusb1066
@jusb1066 7 жыл бұрын
some people like learning the old skill of scraping, sure most stuff now is ground , and hardended, but older stuff was cast and hand scraped, just tradtition i guess, they like older ways because they are also using older machine tools, if they were all modern cnc, they might not be so into it
@donaldmackinnon4621
@donaldmackinnon4621 7 жыл бұрын
just a general question Keith, do you or any of your friends know how much material is removed with a file stroke. I used to file keys and getting them down to the correct size took some amount of filing, I think I removed a thou for every ten strokes but not sure. Can you help?
@Blazer02LS
@Blazer02LS 7 жыл бұрын
I think that would depend greatly on the files cut and sharpness. A sharp double cut bastard file is going to remove more material than a dull smooth single cut. Length of stroke will also make a big difference.
@donaldmackinnon4621
@donaldmackinnon4621 7 жыл бұрын
thanks. Could make another show from this?
@dixonqwerty
@dixonqwerty 7 жыл бұрын
Bad practice to keep your finger so close to a running machine Mr Rucker! I have not seen you do that earlier, and i don't want to see it again. :) Stay safe in the machine shop, and practise safety at all times.
@siggyincr7447
@siggyincr7447 7 жыл бұрын
Is there a reason why scraped cast iron is better for this sort of thing than ground hardened steel, besides the price? I realize that you can't scrape them if they are made out of hardened steel. But if I were making something like this, my instinct would be make it out of tool steel, heat treat with an emphasis on lots of tempering cycles to stabilize it, grind it and then lap it. Yes it's more involved, but the thing would be very wear and dent resistant.
@jusb1066
@jusb1066 7 жыл бұрын
I think its just a case of using and learnng old skills, sure tools you buy are hardened and ground. But like using a shaper, its un to lean even if out of date, but remember mos ofbthe machine tools kieth and co are using are old too
@lookcreations
@lookcreations 7 жыл бұрын
Siegfried Gust you can't get ink to print effectively on ground surfaces. so scraping gives you a medium to transfer ink from your reference to work
@intjonmiller
@intjonmiller 7 жыл бұрын
lookcreations Not if the entire surface is ground evenly. But if it were ground evenly and then a similar flaking pattern (or loose cross pattern) were ground in a tenth lower there should be plenty of printing ability. Seems plausible. I might even try it on my grinder with a piece of hardened steel just to find out.
@enginebill
@enginebill 7 жыл бұрын
It is because a hand scraped surface can be more accurate than a ground surface.
@intjonmiller
@intjonmiller 7 жыл бұрын
enginebill That is certainly true in that a scraped surface CAN be more accurate than a ground surface, but it is not true that a ground surface cannot be as accurate as a scraped surface. Perhaps more practical to scrape than to grind to the same degree of accuracy, but certainly not the only way to achieve it. (For that matter lapping for the final flatness is ideal.)
@paulteirney3587
@paulteirney3587 7 жыл бұрын
Will you grind the surfaces before you start scraping?
@petefletcher
@petefletcher 7 жыл бұрын
I was thinking that too.
@intjonmiller
@intjonmiller 7 жыл бұрын
Paul Teirney Just what I was wondering. It could be the light playing tricks or more likely the uneven benchtop, but at the end of the video it looked like you could see where the straight edge and the benchtop disagree (especially on our left). Stefan Gotteswinter showed the stress relief warping of a much smaller piece of cast iron in a scraping video. I always wonder why they don't start with grinding to get it a bit closer before scraping the last bit. Seems to my (mostly ignorant about scraping best practices) mind that it would probably mean a few less scraping and printing cycles.
@enginebill
@enginebill 7 жыл бұрын
There is no need to grind it before scraping.
@intjonmiller
@intjonmiller 7 жыл бұрын
enginebill Again, it is not a matter of "need" or "must" or "can't". The question is if he WILL as it should get closer than milling to get a head start on scraping.
@duobob
@duobob 7 жыл бұрын
Ground surfaces are nasty to scrape, they create a tough skin on the surface. Not so much on cast iron, but more so on steel. It can still be scraped after grinding, but basically you need to get under all the ground surface so it can be scraped in evenly.
@erikjohansson1814
@erikjohansson1814 7 жыл бұрын
Why on earth are those blocks called 1-2-3 blocks? Honest question. Beside that, nice video.
@Siege0787
@Siege0787 7 жыл бұрын
1 inch x 2 inches x 3 inches
@erikjohansson1814
@erikjohansson1814 7 жыл бұрын
1-2-3 block, the name, is genius in this case. Thanks :o)
@Blazer02LS
@Blazer02LS 7 жыл бұрын
Because the first guy to make them was good friends with Lawrence Welk..........
@larrylawson5172
@larrylawson5172 7 жыл бұрын
Ah 1 Ah 2 Ah 3 Ah blocks?
@danl.4743
@danl.4743 7 жыл бұрын
Because they are as easy as .... oh never mind. ... But in Europe they are called 25 - 50 - 75... Can you guess why?
@NeonGreenPage
@NeonGreenPage 7 жыл бұрын
Good editing, Keith. Watching a face mill cut for 45 minutes is not very interesting. Glenn
@johonfritz
@johonfritz 7 жыл бұрын
Hand scraping, the magic behind precision. ...OK why are a third of the reputable vloggers in mill work named Kieth? No, really?
@menow.
@menow. 7 жыл бұрын
Sorry if this is a distraction, but your breathing sounds like you have a serious health problem.
@charlescompton4495
@charlescompton4495 7 жыл бұрын
When you teach, you end up talking a lot and breathing comes second. I know, it doesn't make sense but try it some time and record the session, Greg.
@menow.
@menow. 7 жыл бұрын
"Breathing is a serious health problem?" Sure... right... that's what I said. Obtuse much?
@garyc5483
@garyc5483 7 жыл бұрын
I think it is mainly a problem with the mic positioning and the lack of a wind cap. Any apron fitted mic is liable to being caught with a sleeve or against a machine etc. I have noticed this with many other KZfaq machinists. The only person who has mastered the art of wireless mics is Keith Fenner. He wears his on the peak of his cap and gets almost perfect sound with no hissing, booming or scraping noises. regards
@jusb1066
@jusb1066 7 жыл бұрын
Yep lapel mic, most youtubers use a boom Or camera. Mic, picks up more surround and less person noises
@menow.
@menow. 7 жыл бұрын
Actually, to me, his breathing sounded too labored relative to his level of exertion, and has a thickness in his throat which sounds like a person who is life-threateningly obese. That's my impression, plainly stated. Take it or leave it, as you chose.
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