+Spawn It's an 'Ian' thing :)

+Spawn Still waiting for a disassembly video for the mail coif.

+Knyght Errant I see what you did there ;)

Also magnificent beard

I love you for this comment 😂

+Jeremy Madsen What does this do to my THAC0? ;)

+Ruarscampbell Thank you sir!

Hey how much bigger should a 44 chest size mail shirt should be to go around a padded armor? Because I was thinking getting a 44 chest size mail and I am about 40-41 chest size (from the back around, I am a little buff) Should I jump to a 50 mail shirt? But that seems to big. 6mm flat rivited rings: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNC270BK&name=Chainmail+Hauberk+-++Alternating+Dome+Riveted+Construction+-+Blackened+Mild+Steel+Riveted+Flat+Rings+and+Solid+Flat+Rings+-+Close+Out What do you think? Thanks!

I think a 44 would end up binding on you with a 41 in chest and padding. 50 would probably be best. If you are interested, consider giving www.customchainmail.com a call. They will build a shirt to your size (that's where mine is from). They don't do 6mm, but offer 8mm. If you're dead set on the shirt you linked from KoA, you'd be cutting it real close with the medium. If you're willing to do some work, you can always make the 50 in a little smaller, which is easier than making a 44 in a little bigger.

Knyght Errant Hmm I see I see. I can always go to an armorer to modify it as well?

Considering that I don't know what Jack chains are, I would also like to see a video on them.

@@CoffeeSnep They are a poorer soldier's alternative to plate armor. They are small plates joined together to make them seem like chains. They are pointed (tied) directly onto the soldier's gambeson and protects the outer side of his arms. mcishop.azureedge.net/mciassets/w_9_0056456_rogue-jack-chains_550.png

+2Sucubi1Chalice When it comes to plate armor maintenance, it's virtually identical to the procedure I use for firearms, minus the bore brushes :)

Do you have an interest in historical firearms, or does your interest lie in more modern designs?

The Celtic shield in Gaul (known as the thureos to the Greeks) was similar to the scutum except more ovular. It was replaced in Gaul probably when Caesar conquered the area. The Gauls were probably equivalent to the Romans as far as metal working. Just like the Romans they had primitive (by modern standards) quality steel. In Gaul, weapon makers were probably run by individuals or a family so the quality varied.

+Simon The Sinda It would be, but kite shields are just as effective and lighter

Awesome, that's great to hear. I'm glad you were able to salvage a serviceable mail shirt out of it. May it serve you well!

Haha, I sometimes wonder what the mystery grease is that some of these manufacturers pack their mail in. Have fun getting it clean, I'm glad the video helped!

It should work, a tumbling media like walnut shell or something should work too. I don't know if the baffles in the cement mixer will cause a problem though.

Originally developed for the Imperial German Army. Super multi purpose. Works on wood, leather and steel. Ballistol is anti-septic and completely unhazardous for your health. Cut yourself? Apply some Ballistol (for legal reasons I state that this is not a medical advice) Ballistol is awesome.

+shopsmart57 I've added a section in my corresponding website post on this concerning ballistol and WD-40 as an effective means to displace water during the 'quick drying' stage, but I would still advise a heavier product like fluid film or CLP for long-term storage. Ballistol did not perform well enough on Custom Chainmail's tests to be effective for the long term.

+theWolvesbane It's an all rounder but at every specific task you name there are individual products that fulfill that task much better. I heard about people who say it made there leather rot and jammed the grain of wood for further maintenance. But i like its smell.

Knyght Errant Ohhh I completely missed that video, but thanks a lot for the reply. That sounds like the best bet then

in a pinch, you can use Coke. dry it. then spray some Ballistol

I don't know? ??

+DushinSC That is me on the horse, but it is not my horse. That was a photo taken at a living history event in 2014. The owner of the horse is a professional jouster and he was kind enough to let me sit atop Nemesis that day to get a feel for being on a horse in armor. I've ridden many times, I've worn armor many times, but that is the only time I've done those things simultaneously. I'd love to do it more in the future.

+Zachary Sohn painting, bluing, gilding, tinning, one day I will do a video on historical armor finishes

+Philip Dyer It would only be a problem if you left it completely unattended afterward, you'd still want to apply a protective layer. I usually put a little CLP on there before I rub the mail together and my sweat will never reach the metal. A wire brush would probably work just fine.

Yes, it's a photo of me. No they don't have my permission. Other predatory sellers on ebay have also stolen images of other pieces of my armor that they use to sell their garbage. They steal photos from lots of good armorers as well, I'm hardly the only victim of this practice. Unfortunately, there's not much recourse. The eBay reporting process doesn't do much of anything, and I've also tried to go the route of claiming the copyright on the photography they used, but the process is so convoluted as to make it prohibitive.

Nick Graham Put the rivet through and beat it with a hammer

You'd have to remove the leather and then re-stitch it on to clean it properly.

+klyana130 It's there, you can see the rusty mail laying on top of a piece that just came out of the tumbler, you'll note the bottom half of the photo is rust free.

Knyght Errant Oh, I thought it was one whole piece, partly rusted on the top half and expected to see a shiny whole piece next. But I did see the difference in cleaned of rust mail at the bottom.

***** No worries. It's because Tom was using old walnut shell media. The result is a dull matte finish. If you use a less worn out media or something more aggressive you will get more shine.

Sorry, I missed this comment: ca. 1296 accounts from the Duchy of Lancaster - "Itm. xx s xj d. in duobus saccis de coreo pro armatura comitis." Republished in Ffoulkes p.79

oh, thanks allot!

+name more names I don't see why it couldn't be done, I've just never encountered anyone who has really tried it and I've definitely not done it myself.

+Knyght Errant Thanks for getting back to me on that. Maybe you can try it later and see what happens. Also thank you for all the great videos, They're showing me some really interesting and important stuff that I would never have thought of on my own. Since you have a web site I should probably check that considering it's easier to put more information in written format. Keep up the good work and I'm sure you'll gain a great wealth of people to teach and communicate with.

Yes, there's a decent amount of modernly made stainless steel mail that is relatively indistinguishable from modernly produced mild steel mail. I would qualify that by saying neither really looks like actual historical mail. My mail shirt and collar are stainless. All of the other mail components I own (mail sleeves, skirt, aventail) are not.

wow thanks for the fast reply! semper.

I've never had a problem with flash rusting. I will pull it out of the water, pat dry with a towel and lay it in direct sunlight until dry (at least 10-15 minutes) and it's always been fine. If it's particularly humid, a little WD-40 might get the water out of the rings. If it does rust, you would then have to clean it again and bet quicker with the drying, maybe using something like a hair dryer or even a heat gun.

Knyght Errant Thank you very much for the quick reply! I think I will try your method out next summer. Some of the products you suggested are not available in Europe (I'm from Austria) but I will figure out their equivalents I can get here. Best regards from Vienna!

I don't know that anyone has tried. The only problem I foresee is that even though parkerization is very wear resistant, mail is constantly abrading itself to the point that I don't know if it would last long enough to warrant going through the process.

I would do it mainly for the darker (more towards dark grey/black-isch) look the maille would get and obviously as the inherit extra way to retain more of the rust preventive oil which needs to be on maille at all times...

It's not permanently attached, it's only attached to the liner by a simple whip-stitch around the perimeter. You cut the thread, take off the mail and clean it separately, and then re-sew it on. It doesn't need to be done very often at all.

Knyght Errant Ah I see. Sorry, I do have a different style helm with a permanent aventail (linked to the helm with rings and not sewn on). Thus is why I asked. Thank you

+Blank- blade Here's the Material Safety Data Sheet: simplegreen.com/downloads/SDS_EN-US_SimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf

+Blank- blade I was about to ask the same.

Mart Shearer Thanks :)

It doesn't look like historical mail, and trying to remove the finish is dangerous and not worth the hassle.

Yes, but if you don't care that it is shinier and DON'T try to remove the Zinc coating = easier maintenance + safe, right? Also, thank you for the quick reply! :)

That is correct. It just depends on what you intend to use it for. For living history and re-enactment with a focus on historical accuracy which is what I primarily do, it's a non-starter since it's so visually incorrect. If you take care of your mail, it's not too hard to keep it looking good.

If the mail is mild steel, the only difference is that a vibratory or rotary tumbler may cause you to lose some rings because of the inherent fragility of butted mail, but the ways to remove rust aren't any different. If the steel is galvanized it should already be corrosion resistant and you shouldn't try to remove the galvanized coating if you don't know what you're doing because certain techniques can create poisonous fumes.

+TheSpaghettiKnight There are inventory records and surviving samples of latten (brass) mail. Cartridge brass can be fairly hard, and wrought iron wasn't as hard as many steels.

+Mart Shearer Really? I was always under the impression that bronze chainmail was mostly fantasy armor. I asked because Brass and Bronze don't decay from corrosion like iron or steel, so it might take less maintenance to take care of (even if it's more expensive than iron or mild steel).

+TheSpaghettiKnight They're rare, but not unknown. Mildenhall's 1344 account in the Tower Armouries contains a latten hauberk, which was carried over in the Rothwell receipt of 1353, "xxvj loricas unde iij de alta clavatura iij pro torniamento debiles, j de maille iasrant’, j de latone et xviij communes" -- 26 hauberks hence: 3 of high nailing (all riveted); 3 for the tournament, worn out; 1 of mail jazerant (covered in cloth); 1 of latten (brass), and 18 common. The Wallace Collection's A10-11 mail sleeves are also of tinned latten. It might explain the appearance of yellow colored mail worn by Robert Fitzhamon in the Tewksbury window too. www.flickr.com/photos/pefkosmad/7857954754/sizes/h/in/photostream/

+TheSpaghettiKnight Why not go with a full cuirass? Bronze can be cast and hammered quite easily producing bronze plate of sufficient size. Iron or steel can not be turned into flat plate just like this, actually that is why I believe mail predates plate armor, before hydropowered bloomeries, furnaces and hammers it simple wasn't worth it to try and create really large plates except for things such as helmets. And even then helmets of a riveted construction are about a thousand times more common during much of the high and early medieval period.

+DushinSC If you have a flat cuirass, something is wrong.

It should work. A lot of people anecdotally believe that's a period solution, but the historical sources actually refer to bran (the grain husk) to roll mail in. It's not only abrasive to clean the mail, but the natural oils help protect it. Sand is not in the period sources, but it would work modernly I'm sure.

I'll give it a shot.

The oil that ships from the manufacturer smells horrible, is really filthy and I don't know exactly what it is that they use, so I want to start from clean mail and only use the products I know are safer.

but as far as the mail goes, it will still be protected if you just add new oil on ?

If you add more oil to the grease that's already there, it will likely be so over-oiled and over-greased that it will attract all kinds of dirt and crud from the environment, so it will be protected from rust, but it will be an absolute mess.

Noted Thank you very much for clearing this up for me. Also it is really great you respond to questions and comments ! good job, very nice !

You're very welcome!

+Nighti88 Do you mean dust of sand or dust and sand? If it is the latter we breathe dust every day, especially indoors.

"Dust of sand or rust."

Lord Stimpy I had no idea what happened here. Don't judge.

Douglas Fulmer No quarrel, I had to reread it too

Lord Stimpy :D

+Hedge Twentyfour I can't say I've ever seen pattens depicted in a martial context. They change the way you walk and aren't very suitable to that kind of activity as far as my experience has shown.

+kenijaru WD-40 just doesn't last long enough for long term storage. It was tested in the experiment I mentioned in the video, but WD-40 tends to evaporate off of things. Products like fluid film, CLP etc pretty much last indefinitely. You can use WD-40, you'd just need to refresh it frequently. It will be effective during the 'quick dry' stage though to displace water quickly, but then you'll want a more effective long-term solution like fluid film or CLP or whatever you like. www.customchainmail.com/2014/05/29/final-results-rust-prevention-test-v2/

Knyght Errant silly me, should have gone into the links before asking... sadly the other options dont exist where i live, so WD-40 will have to do. At least now i know i'm not, through ignorance, making things worse.

It seems that a lot of the sources indicate other media, like bran (the grain husk) rather than sand, but yes that's the basic idea.

I thought I had read somewhere of a similar method. Sand and vinegar in a barrel and rolling around a courtyard.

+Mason Rudesheim That would certainly be an interesting way to clean mail, although I suspect in period, it was the soylent green that they were trying to clean *off* their mail :)

True, very true.

Rust is created from the reaction of oxygen with iron in the presence of moisture. The blow dryer eliminates the moisture far faster than any oxidation effect that might be caused by the moving air stealing more electrons from the iron. Dry oxygen does not oxidize ferrous materials.