Worst Oblivion DLC.

This would be a great topic for a video

Don't be ridiculous. Horses can't make armor.

@@matcaissie8937 Now the worst Skyrim Creation

Rebypox no, he hides a longsword there

The Aussie Bogan I thought he hides a long sword in his pants.

That's not a beard, it's a face-mounted windscreen.

@@hoop6988 you hope*

Sebastian L F Camon yes beards tend to grow with time

Mine does not :( So sad...

joe kurtz got a source for that?

FinStabilisedDiscardingSabot dammit , you got me

it does. I love you Ian.

Not enough videos on katanas and video games I suspect :)

DON'T DO IT! This is such a fantastic channel for information and you go into detail and show sources, I'd hate to see you do videogames. :( You had that video about fantasy armour, but at least that was in regards to your input to make it more accurate and functional. And by that, I mean it's your channel so do what you want. I'm just putting in my opinion. :)

Agreed! But do not go down that way, i have loads of katana stuff, so i would say it is games.

Ha! Well, to be honest, I often struggle with the idea that in order to get people in the door I have to do something with wide appeal, and hopefully they stay for the other stuff. But at the same time I feel like that wouldn't be quite in keeping with what I do on the channel, or what my audience expects. I've also rejected offers of sponsorship from companies that other historical channels use, because I don't want them to influence what I can and cannot make. Maybe I'm artificially limiting the growth of the channel that way, I don't know. Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough of a way to make a 'wide appeal' video that still has a lot of historical value. I'm fully aware that my delivery is dry and people looking for entertainment probably click away after the first 30 seconds though. Making these videos can feel very Sisyphean at times when I try to systematically show how real armor works only to see that the next day a much bigger channel reaches several hundred thousand people with a video review of improperly made armor or absurd arming garments that prevent you from moving in harness... oh well... sorry for the rant! :)

Knyght Errant Don't say sorry, like I say I think you're the best armor channel out there. I LOVE the dry delivery. To me that means you're not resorting to tom-foolery to get noticed. Ye-olde-looking drawings are a really nice touch, and the obvious research you do shows that you respect my time enough to give me solid information. Maybe think laterally? Contact university history departments on series they might make use of (and pay for), or save up money from your patreons to go to the Wallace collection perhaps and see some armor first had. How about a video tour of your next living history event? A knyght errant t shirt? JUST DON'T GIVE GIVE UP!

creepy

The mail is held to the fabric with a simple whip-stitch using a heavy waxed linen thread. The stitching is ultimately temporary, as it would need to be cut free any time you need to clean the mail, but it is sturdy enough to hold it on in use.

Mail - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r5iJapiaqdu5inU.html Plate - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7KFitqfvZ7Kdas.html

It wouldn't really do anything, and it would just need to be removed every time you cleaned the mail thoroughly.

Yes of course, that's what all mail sleeves are for.

Thanks, it was the hardest part of my kit to get :)

Thanks for sticking around that long! :) Matt's mention a couple years ago was the single biggest boost this channel has ever received, and I'm glad that many of the people who saw it still find my content worthwhile.

A lot has happened in the last two years and this channel continues to be a treasure. Thank you.

Eric Schmidt of the Mail Research Society has resources.

Thanks, I'll check that out :D

Thank you, and the beard says welcome to the channel!

No, I've not tried waxing the inside of the helmet.

Fe (iron) mail sleeves ;p

anga (iron) mail sleeves

Wizard's sleeves...

Bloody patriarchy, I tell you.

Soren G Very clever lol

Mail comes in a variety of qualities. High end mail was absolutely tailored and fitted to the individual wearer. Most depictions of full mail harness in artwork show very closely fitting mail that permits almost full mobility. It's not bulky and hanging off the wearer like a lot of modern re-enactors tend to convey. This is also backed up by surviving mail garments. The Wallace Collection has a number of very well fitted and tailored coats of mail. Properly fit mail is essential both for the older mail-only style armors of the Crusader era and earlier as well as when it was only worn as a secondary defense to plate armors. It's that fit and tailoring that not only reduces unnecessary weight, but allows the individual inside to move without excessive restrictions when fighting.

Knyght Errant huh thanks for the reply. I always just thought it was rather loose, larger armor that could just be switched around with (almost) everyone.

The highly tailored and fitted pieces are going to be more the domain of professional men-at-arms/knights, while looser fitted pieces are probably going to be available to outfit larger numbers of less equipped infantry.

You're not alone, I get that on all my videos :)

@@KnyghtErrant I'm a huge fan of both channels, I wonder if we'll ever see a collaboration.

Yes, when the rest of the armor is on, I suspect it will help hold them in place a little better.

Andrew Suryali the aventail does protect.

That mail collar would still be worn in addition to the sleeves, just like with the shirt.

Oh, I see. Thanks for the explanation.

Andrew Suryali o

They aren't necessarily issued to people wearing full arm harness. The guys in fancy full armor, are going to have their own stuff. Some of the entries in the tower inventories also pre-date full articulated arm harnesses, where floating components are much easier to fit.

facebook.com/historicallypatternedmail/

Thanks!

ookaookaooka Well. I reckon a rugged dragon's exoskeleton/scales would far outmatch pesky steel plate or chainmail. I doubt it COULD slow down a dragon for it's sheer strength and force alone. I imagine getting a claw tangled up could become a problem Mai my for the attacker, but I doubt dragon's claws COULDN'T tear through chainmail. All in all, dragons wearing armour is pretty redundant and in effective, remember, that dragons really thrive on the fact that they're so quick and agile aswell as strong and regal Good meme-question though

There is more than enough room to straighten the arm completely with no restrictions. It won't pull out of the vambrace. You would only risk pulling out of the vambrace if the underlap of the mail was inadequate (like 1 cm of underlap or something very short).

Just a few components that will enable me to reconfigure my armor to ca. 1415 as opposed to the more ca. 1390 configuration people are used to seeing me in.

Okok. Looking forward to see your new set later then.

That very thing flashed through my mind right as I said that.... lol :)

Here's a video discussing that (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9ukddCor6m6ZIU.html), but unless there are other defenses in place, I don't think it makes too much sense if you have access to a full mail shirt.

DushinSC I am also curious about this, it's probably just an aesthetic thing though

More protection, obviously. It depends on the exact era of his kit, but back in this time, if it is from an earlier design, you would be wary of plate only, as the technology had not reached it's peak. And if you can wear it without hindrance, why not?

A lot of the Italian armors are optimized for cavalry use. Maybe they preferred the redundancy of an extra layer (sometimes two) of mail in the event of a particularly well-placed lance strike? I don't know, I'm just speculating. As far the shoulders go, it's very possible that they are double layered as well with a layer of mail over the upper arm protection and voiders underneath.

I know they were fans of cavalry but a layer of mail under plate armor does sound a little redundant. Now I am curious if Western Europe also had men-at-arms wearing full shirts under middle to late 15th century, that would tell let us have a glimpse in the past and the protective value of plate armor.

They had concepts such as double mail when facing powerful bows or crossbows during the crusades. The idea of adding layers of armor is simple logic.

Not if they're tailored well.

That would have the opposite effect. The more they bunch up, the more they will bind and prevent you from moving.

Dang.

I made it myself. I used this pattern to make it after a number of adjustments to get it to fit me better - www.lulu.com/shop/tasha-kelly/the-pourpoint-of-charles-de-blois/paperback/product-22344252.html

Full mail pants were not really used anymore by the time plate leg harness was common (it would still be used by people who might not have access to plate legs though). Instead what we see are small patches of mail sewn onto the clothing beneath the armor that fill in some of the gaps left by plate legs, like behind the knee. We tend to see that more on dismounted men-at-arms, as on horseback it's not needed.

Thanks for the reply!

These will be worn under an English style arm harness, so they only need to be long enough to tuck neatly inside and be captured by the lower cannon of the vambrace. Going all the way to the wrist would just be excess mail in my case. 10:20

Ah. I see. Thank you.

and I noticed that a lot of people use undyed linen arming doublets when the ones they wear normally are died bright colours. but why leave it with a colour that will look dirty with use. what I'm asking is are there any examples of bright coloured arming doublets?

I think it would be historical. I chose not to do it because I need to be able to wear my regular breastplate as well, and that means I need to wear my full mail shirt. I didn't want to have to remove and re-attach the mail sleeves every time.

Ahh... that'd be a pain. I'm planning on making a coat of plates, and really don't need to wear my full maille shirt, I just need maille sleeves and a maille skirt, and I thought it'd be more convenient attaching them directly to the gambeson (at the same time keeping it as historical as possible) thanks for letting me know and Keep up the great work on your channel!

There are about 9,000 rings _per sleeve_ in my pair, so approximately 18,000 rings total. When you go from the more common 9mm mail to 6mm mail (which is what these sleeves are) you end up using about 270% more rings per square unit surface area.

Thanks a bunch.

There are a variety of ways to tailor mail, very analogous to tailoring techniques in fabric. Yes, these violations to the standard 4-in-1 pattern are known as expansion or contraction rings. They are used for enlarging or tapering a circumference respectively. By placing strategic contraction rings (which essentially removes a ring from a row) ever few rows you can control how quickly a tube tapers. Other tailoring techniques found in mail are the inclusion of gores (triangular expansions) and the reverse, which is a dart (a triangular section that has been removed). Historical mail, especially the higher end examples were highly tailored to the body of the wearer to both minimize weight and waist of material, but also to make it far more mobile.

The sleeve tailoring makes sense; I found a video of a guy explaining the techniques using butted mail. Would the darts and gores be done during the initial manufacture of the garment, or would they be part of a process of tailoring a mail-shirt to the man who would wear it?

It is unknown, as there isn't much detailed evidence for the specific details of the process, only the end results. In many surviving garments, the rings used to tailor are slightly different than the majority of the rings in the rest of the garment. This is interesting because it may suggest that apprentices were essentially weaving big sheets of mail, then a master would come along after the fact and insert tailoring rings where needed or remove rings, cut it to fit etc., for a client or for a general off-the-rack size. For the high end stuff, it's most likely the garment was tailored to the individual, so this work would be done during fittings or to measurements.

Mail sleeves and skirts are commonly worn together but they are not attached to each other, they are separate mail garments. In the inventories of the Tower of London Armoury during the 14th century, mail _sleeves and paunces_ (skirts) are often listed as sets. If a person is wearing a breastplate with no backplate or fauld, it would most likely be worn with a full coat of mail, not just a pair of sleeves and a skirt though. The sleeves and skirt would normally be worn with a more complete torso protection, serving as a supplement to it and covering any gaps left by that defense. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9ukddCor6m6ZIU.html

@@KnyghtErrant gotcha thanks! Further questions. I watched your recent (2020) video on quality of arms. I am writing a fantasy novel that has 14-15th century arms with fantasy elements. My main character starts out poor and slowly obtains gear and eventually is bestowed a holy gear set by his diety. The curaiss from the kertzberg/Leeds armories called CH37 and CH38 interest me for my poor character's starting gear. My question: is it possible to put these curaisses on by yourself. If they were hinged on one side and buckled on the other and the shoulder straps attached front and back. Sometimes my character is adventuring alone and there is no one to help arm him. Weight is no issue as it is dealt with via fantasy elements. I am looking for a full curaiss with rigid back defence with attached short fauld that my main character can put on by themselves. I love the look of CH37 and CH38. I do not think a fauld is easy to put on by yourself? Also my character is an infantryman so maybe small tassets would help. But it still brings it back to whether or not he can arm himself front and back using CH37 or CH38. Sorry for the ramble, I absolutely love your channel!!!

Thank you, glad you're enjoying the channel! Putting on a plate cuirass by yourself can be very challenging if not impossible in most historical configurations. Churburg 37 and 38 are just breastplates, they're not intended to be worn with a backplate. That configuration is also difficult to put on by yourself. You'd normally have two crisscrossing straps for the upper back and a single strap across the natural waist. You can theoretically buckle the shoulder straps first and then try to slink into it and maybe with a little bit of contortion try to get the waist strap cinched down, but it would be really difficult to get it adjusted just right in a timely and efficient way. That could be an option though. You could certainly add a backplate to it in a fantasy setting if you wanted it to be a full cuirass. In some configurations it's not so much that you can't get the armor to sit on your body by yourself, but getting it adjusted and strapped in a way that ensures adequate function _is a problem_ by yourself. There are some configurations of historical cuirass where it is hinged on one side along the lateral centerline and buckled down the opposite side. It might be possible to get into something like that by yourself, but you might have to take some liberties to allow the necessary flexibility. In real life they would be put on with help. The easiest type of torso defense to get into by yourself would be a front-closing pair of plates (coat of plates) or later brigandine style armor (I'm not trying to be rude, but I know Shadiversity recently released a popular video about brigandines, I would heavily caution against using that information in a historical context, that's not how real medieval brigs looked or how they were constructed). Once you solve the torso protection though, you've also got arms to worry about if you intend for your character to wear arm harness. Arms and shoulder defenses are also for the most part impossible to put on by yourself if they fit correctly. In the context of historical armies this isn't really an issue, men-at-arms had servants to help and lower status infantry had each other, but it presents a problem for realistic fantasy scenarios where you want someone to be able to arm by themselves.

@@KnyghtErrant fantastic info! Thank you!!!I I greatly appreciate it! Yes I have seen Shad's video and I'm not keen on that. I like scholagladiatoria's vid and yours on brigandines and coat of plates. My character has companions for the majority but he spends a lot of time on his own going from place to place solving problems and healing the sick (paladin/cleric type) so I will definitely need to adjust his kit based on what you've said. It's hard being a knight errant off on your own in real life lol. For arm protection I didn't think it would be too hard to do full plate but after watching you and jason from Modern History TV get dressed in your armour I will need to figure something else out. What are your suggestions for arm protection that my character can put on themselves? Gauntlets, pauldrons, and vambracers? I'd like him to be as armoured as possible that he can put on by himself and ensure mobility as he adventures around a lot. He fights with shield and mace with a messer as back up. He needs a lot of armour to deal with a variety of fantasy creatures (dragons, trolls, demons, skeletons, bears, giants, wolves, bandits etc.) What are your suggestions for the max amount and type of armour for an adventurer (head to toe)? I had hoped for kettle helm, breastplate with attached fauld, mail sleeves and paunce, pauldrons, plate arms and gauntlets, leg protection and normal hiking type boots. He traverses mostly cold mountains, grasslands, forests, swamps, tombs, caves, and has to deal with intense winter conditions (Skyrim). What armour is most versatile for this adventuring? Could you make straps for a breast plate that are so long that you criss cross them all the way around your back to the front and buckle them in the front? Same for the waist strap, have it super long and wrap it around your torso and buckle in the front. This way I can have a breastplate and add in other specific arm pieces. I can always beef up "less protective" types of armour and mail via fantasy elements after all to ensure he can arm himself yet have the equivalent protection of full plate.

Yes, they're usually called _brayettes_ . They're kind of like mail briefs, some do have short legs on them too.

I think you may have misunderstood. Mail sleeves _as a separate object_ not associated with mail hauberk or haubergeon came about in the early 14th century. Coats of mail had been used for far longer than the Middle Ages.

My ca.1380-1400 breastplate has no backplate and there are a lot of other configurations of 14th century torso armor that would be better off with a full mail shirt because of the coverage they provide, for more - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9ukddCor6m6ZIU.html

Knyght Errant Ah yes. Having no backplate would present a problem. :D

Are you asking how _well_ it fits without mail? It fits just fine if I leave the mail off. The fabric tends to fill the void of where the mail used to be since the mail compresses the fabric otherwise.

Awesome. Thanks.

No problem. If it were a completely unpadded garment, going from mail to no mail could make your arm harness a little roomy though depending on how closely fit it was made to be.

Interesting. I want my kit to be Bohurt friendly, but I also want it to be historical. Being able to remove the mail for melees would be very useful.

I don't have one :)

Perhaps there are other channels better suited to your tastes.