Hi Andrew!! What a surprise to find you here

It's really popular for handgun grips too.

what kind of drones, have you had luck with smaller 5inch or less? if its easy to cut, i might cut out a 4inch frame, but carbon is already pretty cheap for frames that small

I'v got G10 grips for one of my pistols, I never thought it would be used for a print surface lol.

Now that i think of it, I do have some old drone frames made from g10. I imagine it would work well on a rekon 1s lr instead of 3d printing the frame

Celcius?

@@hyperspeed1313 yep. Make sure the glass is flat and cool the sheet as slowly as you can

to elaborate for anyone else that stumbles in here, you want to let the temperature lower on the sheet as evenly as possible, else itll shatter as one part cools faster and bends, well its a glass like thing, glass doesnt bend it shatters. need to heat it evenly too or the same will happen if it even matters for this material. also unless itll adhere to stuff at that temperate wouldnt any sort of really flat+smooth and rigid material work (e.g. a metal sheet?)

@@matthewweinberger7023 Not all polymers have a glass transition temperature and most of the epoxy resins are among of them. Once the are cured the reaction is done and you have one board size molecule of polymer that can't be shaped by temperature like thermaplastics do. The only thing that is working here is pressing them flat.

@@0thorgal0 then mine was plastic. It was warping under heat, now it doesn't

lmao for a second I thought of my dad's thick metal acoustic guitar strings and I had a heart attack thinking about running those through a printer lol.

@@ironbeagle1610 I'm not sure if these are acoustic or electric. Surprisingly, it has the diameter of the string in mm on the packages. But yeah, not the lower strings with the coil, the higher pitched ones

i hadnt thought about that...and i have a bunch of used ones i wanted to recycle! thank u!

I use acupuncture needles for cleaning my nozzles.

It's funny that it has so many different trade names. I've never heard of G10, but I've made custom circuit boards at home for years and so I've used it heaps, but always known it as FR-4. (btw, with the cheap pcb services available now, it's pretty impractical to diy boards at home these days)

Same, I only knew it was used for handgun handles, had no idea it was in PCBs.

What's up fellow knife guy!

Or grips for pistols, mainspring housings for 1911's

Same, it was a nice surprise to learn it has more applications than knife handles.

Print bed companies hate him!

This one little trick they use for perfect print results...

It deforms if used incorrectly so clearly not beginner friendly. Companies don't want their products returned because the bed melted....no rocket science why its not used widely. Outside of nylon this seems to perform no better then pei which has none of the warping downsides.

@@backgammonbacon There's FR4 made for high heat, only difference is the polymer. I'd recommend that instead of G10

@@MakersMuse Thanks a lot for not being like that!

This is helpful! I'm helping students learn the ropes and PLA has been snapping during loading and refuses to stick. Finally got it to stick with borosilicate bed plate and gluestick, and print starts looking like a slug after about 1/2 - 3/4" height off of plate (with exception of pre-loaded gcode on sd card (a cat). I think I'll give it a go with a different filament! :) (and order some G10!!)

aight, gonna try this with new roll of PETG …

It's beyond me why they whack that terrible surface on an already good one!

fR4 may be better I will have to check the data sheets. PCB are made from fr4 and not g10

@@MakersMuse is Buildtak more durable than G10? Because that would explain it.

@@MakersMuse From my experience buildtak is quite good, but in the other hand I never been able to make my parts stick to much expensive ultrabase plate so everyone has to find the material that suit him well!

🤯 never even thought about printing on that flipped side

Thays exactly what I thought “G10? Like the same G10 that every knife company makes handles out of?”

My thought exactly

Hey, I heard this is where the knife bros hang out.

Ahh my people!

I had the same thing happen to me. More into fixedblades so I don't hear about g10 as often but still relatively frequently.

Same. I was like "Wow, I've heard about so many beds, even rare ones like FR4 for Nylon, but not G10. Let's find out what this mysterious material is" "Oh it's just FR4" "Oh. You can use it for more than just Nylon??"

@@KentoCommenT fr4 is better read some of the other comments high temp and fire retardant

Hmm so I could design a PCB without copper or solder mask and have JLCPCB fab it.... Might have to give that a go

@@sonosus Wouldn't a copper ground plane each side aid in heat uniformity?

@@KentoCommenT Isn't it the raw FR4 that gives the material the stickiness? Maybe having a ground plane on one side could work though. I'll give it a shot on my Ender 3 sometime.

Hi, I'm getting into 3d printing and I'm not sure what happens when you begin to print, does the printer heat up the bed?

FR4 is also great for model rocket fins and bulkheads.

That's mentioned as one of its names in the video. As an Australian, I can also corroborate that it is has been very hard to find here whether you look for G10, FR4 or Garolite.

Hold up if its similiar to FR4 cant you print directly on the reprap heated bed pcb o_o

@someoneonlylol Yes and no. Those bed have typically copper on both sides, covered in solder mask. I have mine made of single side PCB without solder mask, but i still like to cover it with glass, because you won't find 3mm thick PCB easily and thinner likes to bend alot.

@@t_z1030 Maybe try Glass Phenolic Plastic Sheet, the seller i found on ebay had this in his description

there is going to be some deflection upwards if you do this, leaving you with a bowl shaped bed.

I use a G10 build plate but with a matching magnet plate for my printer (creality K1) printing nylon mostly with no issues and no build volume interference

If you look back in old videos you see his LTT hoodie ;-)

Literally the first thing I noticed

Wow, they cost so much to get shipped to Australia

i didnt,lol

Nice idea!

That sounds brilliant! What thickness do you use, 62.5mil?

Do the copper pours cause any issues with heating times

You are basically talking about a different material then, as the soldermask on top of the copper is another surface than the raw epoxy resin of an FR-4 PCB. If it still works for your plastics, thats great. But i guess you could end up having issues, depending on the soldermask they used.

@@ProtonOne11 An unetched PCB doesn’t have any solder mask - solder mask is applied after etching

I know this is very old, but I also had lot of trouble with initial layer adhesion with PETG, even if I cleaned with alcohol, my trick to print PETG is to increase bed temperature to 90 degree and hot end to 250, then disable fan for the initial layer, after the initial layer bring fan and temperature to normal setting (bed to 80, hot end to 240), I had 100% success rate with this.

As the fiber glass is bound with epoxy resin in G10 it do not have a glass transition temperature. And I remember that 120-150°C is the point then most of epoxy resins will start to desintegrate when kept under those temperatures for longer period of time. The deformation is solely done by the forces that would otherwise cause delamination or warping.

@@0thorgal0 every polymer has a glass transition temperature. That includes epoxy. You can find the glass transition temperature of most reputable epoxies in their respective datasheets.

@@mariohernandez1111 Er no, thermosets don't

@@donaldasayers You are confusing concepts. Thermosets have melting points above the decomposition temperature (so, you could say they don't have a melting point). Thermoplastics, on the other hand, have melting points below decomposition temperature. Both types of polymers may have a glass transition temperature below the decomposition temperature. Look up examples on epoxies and their glass transition temperatures. This is something you can easily find by googling. PS: I was making a simplification when I said every polymer has a glass transition. Only amorphous or semi-crystalline polymers have a glass transition. Most polymers are like this, thermoset or thermoplastic.

Aka FR5

Hybrid 3D print and laser cut blaster design, you say?

@@MrJelle18 Definitely never laser fibreglass, but it CNC's nicely with a carbide burr :D

@@MakersMuse Ah, my bad! Always learning, I thought milling it would be worse than lasering on account of the fine particles, just goes to show what I know.

@@MakersMuse can you elaborate? I've never used a laser cutter, why shouldn't fiberglass be laser cut?

@@MrJelle18 for fine particles it's usually a case of better safe than sorry, but I don't know terrible much about fiberglass or how it decides to behave when you laser or mill it

They use G10 or FR4 or what?

@@huberttrzewik5644 they won't tell you, but it's probably FR4.

I went through all the same struggles, so glad to hear the FR4 solved it for you!

I hated nylon mostly because even in California scrubland with no rain all year it somehow still managed to soak up moisture and pop and fizz. Adhesion was a pain as well, I was using smooth PEI on a lulzbot mini with gluestick and it was hit or miss. Ultimately I ended up throwing away half the roll as it kept getting worse and worse with moisture like issues even though I kept it sealed up and in california with no rain in it's lifetime. I should have tried baking it at some point, but never did. I am in a much wetter area now and the thought of going back to it makes my eye twitch, heh.

Could you do it without using a enclosure or draft shield?

@@xiaorulez not a chance hahaha

@@Alluvian567 I live in GA. It’s always humid here. I’ve resorted to buying a medium size room dehumidifier, closing that room off, and running it at 100% for a day before printing Nylon. Actually have the dehumidifier’s drain tied into the A/C’s condensation water drainage line. That way it can run w/o having to empty the water. Power draw sucks when I run it like that…but it works. Afterward I turn the dehumidifier back to a reasonable humidity level and go on about my business. Since I use the same room for other things I want to avoid rusting it works out. Also, that particular room in my basement has no A/C returns or vents…so no humidity entering through the A/C directly to hamper the dehumidification process. This was my nuclear option. On the plus side…I don’t need to print from a dry box. I don’t know how low the humidity actually is in the room at 100% dehumidifier….but I do know I can feel the difference big time between that room and just outside the door.

Ohhmygod, XD

I came here for relaxing print talk, and you provide shade. Legend.

And 100x more effective

Meh, it's half G20

Garolite G-7 sheets tolerate higher temperatures. Up to 215 Degrees C. I was looking to see if anybody had tried G-7 for printing PETG.

Pink makes everything better :D

Nice! Thanks for letting me know

Hint: to prevent having a bulge form at the borders because of the surface tension of the resin, you should put a sheet of wax paper below that's larger than the printing surface and overlap the borders all-around a little with resin for about a half-inch. After hardening, you can carefully break or cut it off and sand it to get clean borders. However, it won't work with some of the exotic, overly thick printing surfaces that some people use, (like, several mm thick) as the difference in height to the wax paper is too large to have any effect. (depending also on the viscosity of the resin)

You're right, but the cost and availability is what's really on display here. I work at a machine shop that does a lot of plastic work, I wonder how some of that would do... PEEK, for example, and some proprietary blends...

​@@aidankilleen5889 The majority of inventions were discovered by trial & error and accidents, so, if you have access to unusual materials, I suggest trying to get your hands on some samples. However, before getting your hopes up after discovering a great, "new" material, I'd thoroughly check if it already has been discovered. In 3D printing, for example, I've seen plenty of unusual stuff exclusively in the world of highly expensive industrial 3D printers.

@@aidankilleen5889 Regarding PEEK - I think I've already seen printing surfaces made from it on a manufacturer site of industrial 3D printers.

what about the dimensional stability under heat part?

Ah, thanks. But let's remind each other about security: Masks, maybe wet sanding, maybe working outside.

Where do you get this thermal pad that is large enough?

@@brentowen8857 I bought mine on Amazon. I only found one that was 200x200mm, which worked okay for my Ender 3. But you can buy another and cut strips to fit empty portions of the bed. I will mention, now that I've used it for a while, that the bottom of the glass bed needs to be clean for it to stick well to the thermal pad. This happens a lot when I remove the glass bed. If I get fingerprints on it, the bed can gradually slide out of position. A bit of alcohol will fix it up again. But test that the bed won't move after replacing it. Dust and junk can also gradually get stuck in the thermal pad and make it less effective at sticking to the bed over time. I've recently swapped to a magnetic spring steel bed with PEI on it. That thing isn't going anywhere.

Nice! Thanks for the update. Mine never wore out either 😂

Well I guess compared to speciality print bed products it's cheap heh

It's an inexpensive material that eats tools for breakfast. Yes, products made from it are going to be justifiably expensive.

@@SianaGearz haha very true, the speed at which it blunts carbide burrs is incredible. Even under a waterbath.

@@SianaGearz Two methods I have seen of cutting G10 that should make it more affordable for knives: Waterjetting, and high powered fiber lasers. Id be surprised if knife makers havent started to use products like the waser or 5kw desktop fiber lasers by now. Both are in the 20-30K range to implement and I bet would save a ton in tools.

The material is cheap. Machining it is expensive

Awesome!

When I first got into 3d printing 3 years ago, I was told to get PEI coated spring steel from a veteran printer. I was stubborn/scared because I had a slightly-warped Ender 3 bed, so I only used the borosilicate glass for flatness, utilizing hairspray and isopropyl. I went with PEI coated spring steel about 2 months ago, and I'll never go back. I only print PLA and PETG so far, and the prints stick like glue when bed is heated, and release cleanly when cooled/flexed. Use what works for you, but this $30 bed is amazing.

@@secretweaponevan PLA releases pretty easily from PEI; however, PETG on PEI requires a release agent. You might get away with no release agent for PETG on PEI for a while, but eventually you will damage the it.

@@Vortex-gz8se I've been printing with PETG and PLA on PEI spring steel sheet at 60C with no need for release agent.

@@engineer1692 like I said you might get away with no release agent when printing PETG on smooth PEI for a while, eventually you will almost certainly damage it. Don’t you notice that PETG is a lot harder to remove that PLA?

You work a maker's paradise haha

You already know 😎

Wait really? We have 2 markforgeds at my robotics team, I never knew it was garolite

A glass and the glue layer do the same, i use now the creality surface , but i use the glass side, its works great, its very solid "black glass",with hair spray or glue(only for abs)

@@user-zx4vq4uk9c Next time you use it look at the bed and you can see the pattern of the woven fiberglass fabric in the surface

Does sandblasted glass require heatbed for printing pla and petg ?

Just wondering why use this over spring steel suck as the pei bases? Most people have excellent quality from using just that.

@@benclimo461 Nylon....people seem to have issues getting nylon to stick to pei. If you don't print nylon G10 looks to be a waste. The storage issues of nylon make it a pain for hobbyists so its probably the reason G10 isn't very popular.

Is there much truth in the stories of destroying a pei sheet when printing PETG? I was afraid to try PETG as my first print on my new pei bed...

@@super_slo I frequently print PETG on a Prusa mk2.5 with standard settings with a spring steel pei bed with no issues. I do generally preheat the bed to approx 40 degrees to remove the print tho. It was my first try at flexible that ripped a hunk out of the pei! At least I think it's pei that Prusa use.

@@super_slo for powder coated beds its less of an issue I think but those with a glued on sheet tear up after a while if you don't nail the first layer height.

Nice! I felt the same way when I first tried it haha. Glad you could track some down .

Yeah I just find them too fiddly to attach but could be a lower profile option!

I don’t own a 3D printer yet but you could try slide clips to hold your surface down they are smaller then a bulldog clip so take up less print area they and also are reusable, and surprisingly strong. You would need the appropriate sized clips for the thickness your clamping and a dispenser. Search office works to find slide clips and a slide clip dispenser.

I’ve had luck with blue painters tape. The nozzle can just print right over the stuff. The minimum I’ve found that does the job well is across each corner. Certain brands/types work better than others.

@@tbbrady huh not been aware of this thanks. Then again I bought Ultimaker bed clips, clones, and I just love them. I attached rear ones permanently with nuts, and front ones bent so they are between the nut and the spring, and they just swing out. It was only $3 total shipped and I can easily install and remove the bed, and there's no chance of clips shooting across the room and leaving a giant scratch in my monitor again.

See my tip elsewhere about using magnetic vinyl strips. It works incredibly well.

In theory it could work. Personally, if I did that I'd also add some kind of indexing method to keep sheet shifting to a minimum.

I did it and it works Really Well. My Ender magnetic bed has alternating strips of North-South, which you discover when you place a magnet on it. I bought an A4 sheet of magnetic vinyl from Office Works and cut off 6 strips 1 cm wide. To those I attached the thin type of double sided tape. I removed the tape backing, placed the strips on the bed then placed the sheet of G10 onto the strips, rubbing over it to ensure a good adhesion. The G10 always aligns exactly as it was placed, ie perfectly. It's great to be able to take the sheet off, bend the print off, then replace the G10 perfectly without effort.

@@gryphonista Thank you for the reply. Sounds promising. What's the thickness of the magnetic vinyl?

Thanks for being a great local supplier! It's good stuff.

That's exactly what I was looking for since regular Garolite sheets aren't available in my country. So regular single side FR4 PCB sheets work just as well?

​@@dhairya8238 seems to. The biggest problem with the Jaycar ones though is the size: 150x150mm. Only good for small printers. And even if they were larger, I'd be worried about warping due to their storage and display conditions, it's not really a use-case scenario that the stores are thinking about. Worked for me in a pinch, but YMMV.

@@Myndale got it, I've seen plenty of 300x300 sheets selling for like $5 each in some local maker stores. I'll try one out.

That's awesome to hear! I felt the same after discovering it haha