Making a tenon spring die without welding

Рет қаралды 92,386

6 жыл бұрын

While it is very simple to make a spring dies using a MIG or TIG welder, not everyone has that equipment in their shop. Lets make a spring tenon die using traditional methods.
Thank you for watching. Black Bear Forge is a small one person shop located in Southern Colorado.
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The following list provides just a few resources to help you find supplies and equipment for blacksmithing.
www.piehtoolco.com/
www.centaurforge.com/
www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
www.blacksmithbolt.com/
www.oldworldanvils.com/
www.nimbaanvils.com/
fontaninianvilandtool.com/
www.abana.org/
www.mcmaster.com
kensironstore.com/
Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.

Пікірлер: 131

@woody442 3 жыл бұрын

One of, if not the best educational blacksmithing channel out there! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

@stelmac3212 5 жыл бұрын

John you are awesome. What a great inspiration you are to many of us looking into blacksmithing. Thank you for your prodigious love of your trade skills......🇦🇺

@dkironworks4037 3 жыл бұрын

As someone who doesnt have a welder, I think this is something I am going to make soon! More so for fullering.

@flpmlks5181 3 ай бұрын

that guilotine thing looks like even better tool to me :D when i´ll grow up, i´ll do some o theese :D

@crashdrummer02 6 жыл бұрын

I enjoy that you are making tools that you really don't see a lot of blacksmiths on KZfaq making. I have been practicing my punching and riveting. So this gives me something to try.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

If I can keep coming up with good ideas it may become a regular theme for me.

@johnmitchell3254 6 жыл бұрын

A die grinder or dremel saves a bit of filing.

@Tom-hz9oc 2 жыл бұрын

I love your videos. I’m new to smithing and I’m still making my tools. This is one that’s on my list. I hope that when I make one that it comes out half as good as yours. Oh, and I’ll be using a leaf spring off of a tractor trailer, so I think I’ll get my wife to buy a box of Wheaties!

@chesterchub7503 2 жыл бұрын

Yes l like the dry / cold fitting prior to the actual assembly /build. Thanks from the Iron Butterfly

@brysonalden5414 3 жыл бұрын

Once again, the BBF video library comes to my rescue! Thanks!

@5x535 3 жыл бұрын

I just finished rewatching. I certainly hope that you have gotten to the point where you add video producer to your resume, John. This is an excellent video no matter who put it together! What a great tutorial. I am off to build a couple of spring dies to work down the S1 that I bought to make tooling for my treadle hammer. I made a cut-off hardy by hand and it fits the tongs very well but boy is that S1 difficult to move. I'm hoping that the treadle hammer will bring some authority and precision to the process. You are one of the best instructors that I have had over the past 70 plus years. Thanks again.

@charlesbowden7314 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video I appreciate it because I was having an issue with making one thank you so much

@monsterbash9758 5 жыл бұрын

I just forged my first S-hook in a class today. Thank you for showing me that I can actually pursue blacksmithing without a bunch of money to buy dozens of tools. I might not have even signed up for a class. Luckily some future class projects are a hole punch, a chisel, and a set of tongs so I'll have a good start.

@marcsenteney3160 6 жыл бұрын

This is what I like to see. You made a tool by hand with minimal power tools! As you said with a little more practice it will improve. You have opened up a lot of avenues to be a better smith. Thank you sir for your time and sharing this.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

You're welcome

@mathieudube1183 7 ай бұрын

I love your videos. Super useful. I just made myself a guillotine and I have a bunch of blank dies so I'll make this one so I can use it for the ABANA lvl 1 hook.

@johndilsaver8409 6 жыл бұрын

Excellent. I watched the video first thing this morning and then went to the shop. My day was rewiring a 220 outlet for a new welder. I'm not a very skilled welder yet, but I'm working on it. I made a guillotine tool a couple years ago, same general idea as yours, I only have a couple sets of dies so far. I really like the sets of dies you showed which give such a combination of sizes. I made a spring fuller by forging, but the way you made this is much much better than what I did. Again, thanks so much for posting these videos. You are single-handedly raising the general level of blacksmithing skill for the entire planet. Maybe the galaxy.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the comment, that is quite the compliment.

@shifty3453 6 жыл бұрын

I do love the long format videos they are an excellent way to learn And understand the processes involved.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I like them as well. But they do take much more time. I probably have close to 8 hours in filming and editing this particular video.

@henrygardiner7740 6 жыл бұрын

I agree. These longer videos have excellent content (as usual from B.B.F.) but also watching John’s methods of work when he’s trying something new is as inspiring as it is educational. Thanks for taking the extra time to produce these, John!

@HisWayHomestead Жыл бұрын

I like that!!! thanks for sharing John!!!

@SodBustersMetalDetecting 3 жыл бұрын

Great skill, thanks for the instruction

@whitepunch1392 2 жыл бұрын

I really like your channel . You do a great job explaining everything . I’m trying to save to get my shop built . You getting me motivated .

@johndilsaver8409 5 жыл бұрын

Just re-watching this today. This is still an excellent project. Well done.

@BlackBearForge 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@ironhammer3734 4 жыл бұрын

Great job! This is what the old timers would have had to do. I really appreciate your instructional style of making projects, thank you. Keep up the good work.

@desertdanblacksmith1394 6 жыл бұрын

Good Stuff ! Thx for showing how not to resort to a welder for hardee hole tools! I'm retired and now in the desert (warmer) and am using a wood fired forge .... electricity is optional ! I used to live near you ( higher on the mountains) and I dont miss the snow you occasionaly show. Like watchin all your stuff ...Im a reborn blacksmith now....thx again for your teachings!

@johntompkins147 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks John for sharing your knowledge with us.

@sammanno3303 6 жыл бұрын

OUTSTANDING VIDEO!!!!!!!!

@donaldperry5046 3 жыл бұрын

2020 Merry Christmas to You and Family. Don upstate NY

@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas

@robphone4895 6 жыл бұрын

Elegant concept, with the rivets. Nice project! I spotted a gargoyle!!😀

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I figured you would see him.

@gabrielnavarro8721 6 жыл бұрын

Hi, you just became one of my favorites blacksmiths on youtube. Like DF - In The Shop, you seem to be an endless knowledge supply, and it's really great to see you share with us !

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@lenblacksmith8559 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah John, as with some of the sentiments below, I like the longer video's as they take you through the process on how to make these tools.

@gregwise5324 5 жыл бұрын

Thank You Again John For This Awesome Video !

@meyer3846 6 жыл бұрын

This is awesome and great information to have. Nice to see how it could be done before there was arc welding using rivets and forge welding. That being said I did purchase a 200 amp stick welder to use to make a Press as well as tooling. So for anyone in the Chicago-land area that does not have a welder and wants to make tooling requiring one send me a PM and we may be able to meet up so you can weld your pieces together. Just my way of trying to give back to the blacksmith community. all I ask is that it is a project within reason. Nice video John always enjoy your videos!

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

Great offer!

@meyer3846 6 жыл бұрын

You can also look up open fabrication shops in your area I have one in the Chicagoland area called pumping station one that is only $40 a month and they have a combination TIG and stick welder as well as a milling machine and a forge for anybody that might be interested in that

@bennyhill3642 Жыл бұрын

Awesome Job Mr John😇😁😇

@JordanTracy93 9 ай бұрын

Now I know why they say "strike while the iron is hot"

@Theelderdragon01 6 жыл бұрын

The tenon tool I made was tapped and bolted, but very similar in most every respect . I just had a bucket of bolts and a new set of taps. And a good post drill. Keep up the good work.

@bentoombs 6 жыл бұрын

Thinking and manual labor yeah you found my two weaknesses. lo

@5x535 6 жыл бұрын

Great Video, John! This is an excellent project. I really learned a lot watching and listening to you bring the tool together. Thank you. It sure seems to me like you could add video producer to your list of skills. This was an excellent teaching video---as good as ANY on KZfaq. Bending wrenches would make a good video.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

If I claimed to be a video producer I wouldn't be able to get away with silly mistakes like forgetting to turn on the mic. Bending forks are on the list.

@gregsmith3289 6 жыл бұрын

Really enjoyed this one. Thanks for the information.

@ronthacker211 6 жыл бұрын

Great project... thanks brother John.

@bc65925 6 жыл бұрын

Very good.

@JacobvsRex 5 жыл бұрын

Love this

@mheman1 6 жыл бұрын

Great video! Enjoyed every second of it! Just want to get my shop in place and make one of my own! 😀

@kevinhansen2182 6 жыл бұрын

Well done. Again you make it look so easy. Hopefully some day I'll get that good. Keep up the good work buddy.

@jackdawg4579 6 жыл бұрын

Looks the goods John!

@tonylewis7644 6 жыл бұрын

im learning every day many thanks

@markspc1 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome video !

@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@alanthompson8752 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you John,, I'm hooked on your videos,,, VERY interesting :)

@joedimech8375 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much that will b great Thanks joe

@rangerknow940 3 жыл бұрын

Nice tool John. Love your videos. They are very educational.

@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

@christopherpatrick2343 2 жыл бұрын

Great

@standaffern6595 6 жыл бұрын

This U tube channel just keeps getting better and better. You answer so many questions just in the course of the video. A new video from Black bear forge is the first thing I look for every morning before I head for the shop. This video was great knowledge to file away for when I improve skills. Non the less the subject matter was riveting. One question, can I create a scarf and tig weld the edges of a piece, such as this or a pair of tongs, and then subsequently forge weld it and achieve a completely welded joint all the way through in the forge without the need for flux? Am thinking it would assist in the attaching of rein material to larger stock, if it would be a good process. Thanks.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

If there is any oxygen or impurities trapped in the weld having it sealed up will trap those and it will either bot weld or be weaker. So having a polished perfectly mating surface would be important. just tack welding with the TIG allows the impurities to be forced out of the weld joint. Flux is not an absolute requirement for welding, but it can help.

@standaffern6595 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for reply, looks like I'm in for some experimenting.

@hopereturnscom Жыл бұрын

Great to see BUT WHAT DO U USE THAT TOOL FOR

@oxbowfarm5803 6 жыл бұрын

This is a perfect tool for my situation. Its hard for me to make spring fullers of arc welded pieces, a combination of my dinky welder and poor skill, they fall apart in use very quickly. So even though this is a pretty involved project, I think it is a good procedure generally for tooling up with minimal tools. Thanks for doing these type of projects even though you don't actually need to make tools like this in your shop. Also, I'd really love it if you did a video on files and sources for things like that monster square file you are using 22:35

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I video on files will be in the future. This big square file just came from McMaster Carr. I think it is a Nicholson.

@amgironworks9091 6 жыл бұрын

I'm not an expert welder. But I do know if you are trying to weld to dissimilar metals with something like mig or stick (from personal and from the instructors I have had) the selection of rod/wire is crucial. Or if you have a TIG or oxy acetylene setup you could do a puddle weld making an alloy out of the two parent metals. I have ran into the same issues when just trying to make Hardy tools out of mild and 4140.

@TALLYTHER 3 жыл бұрын

I'm about to make my first tool of this general type. I'm one for keeping things as lite and small as possible to reduce storage requirements. I've watched half a dozen videos made by different people. I'm not sure if I'm missing an important point and would like your opinion on why everyone seems to make the distance between the dies and the spring so long. Wouldn't 4" - 6" be sufficient and facilitate turning the tool crosswise of the anvil? I'm sure there needs to be a balance between the size of the material being worked and the length referred to. Naturally that could be addressed by the size of the spring loop diameter. I enjoyed the video and the alternate rivet method for the dies. Thanks for your assistance!

@demastust.2277 3 жыл бұрын

could you re visit this again some time

@JarlSeamus 6 жыл бұрын

WAYYY better refinement of your original idea! John, this is an awesome tool. Say, where do you get your hot work gloves? Mine are great for up to almost 1,000 degrees but they're stupid bulky (they're foundry gloves). Yours look like they'd allow for a lot more dexterity.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

These are a Carolina Kevlar hot mill glove, I buy them from Pieh Tool

@JarlSeamus 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! They aren't rated for as hot as my foundry gloves, but they also aren't thicker than oven mitts, lol. Ordered a set this afternoon.

@calvinsmith4940 Жыл бұрын

I imagine this sold a long time ago? I think it might fit my little anvil.

@scottwallingwindyacresiron2654 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks John for a great video! That gives me a goal to make one. I’ll probably use mild steel since I’m still a green horn blacksmith. I’ve made a couple spring swages but I flattened out a section in 3/8 round bar for the spring before mig welding to the swage blocks. So far they work good. Would it be better to use flat bar instead?? Thanks again John. I appreciate your teachings.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I don't think it matter to much. I think flat bar is a bit simpler, but not better or worse.

@JF-fx2qv 6 жыл бұрын

Apparently like minds think alike.

@joedimech8375 6 жыл бұрын

Great content once again as I’m only starting out I have a anvil but no forge, do u have any videos on how to build a gas forge thanks

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I have never done a forge building video. I am sure i will at some point.

@scottjosen2606 6 жыл бұрын

Great video! Haven't built my forge yet but found that good, 100 year old, English 110lb anvil. Question: I picked up some US made spud wrenches for next to nothing, good for anything? Maybe a video on 'hacking' or repurposing old tools like that for forging. Thanks again!

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I am sure the wrenches are good steel, but I'm not sure off the top of my head what I would use them for.

@maeguk1 5 жыл бұрын

I was searching for "spring die" and I got lots of strange hits, one of them Vivaldi's 4 Seasons piece... Maybe spring season has a shitty destiny in that work of art and dies quickly I don't know

@BlackBearForge 5 жыл бұрын

Search engines have strange results sometimes.

@marcopolo1119 3 жыл бұрын

Cogratulations for your video. I would like to ask you, what kind of steel you used to make the drift punch? Thank you.

@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын

S7, 5160 and 4140 are all good options

@marcopolo1119 3 жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge Thank you very much.

@amgironworks9091 6 жыл бұрын

Would nutting and bolting make more sense so you could just swap out the dues individually? Keep the same spring? Actually come to think of it if you could have two round stocks for each die for ease of swapping maybe use a cotor key or trailer pin.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

That would be an option

@edcortrecht6996 5 ай бұрын

You use vermiculite to anneal. Is that better than lime??

@paultavres9830 6 жыл бұрын

When you are punching a hole Is the slug condensing before punching thru When first starting the hole as the punch is going into the metal you are working both side till the slug starts to move Whats happening to the slug

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

A large portion of the material is being displaced to the sides. This leaves a thin slug that is easy to shear out as the material cools. The slug doesn’t really compress. The displacement of material is why punched holes are stronger than drilled holes.

@TheOldaz1 4 жыл бұрын

Rivet end 1.5 times rivet diameter?? Seem to recall it was something like that. Thanks John, nice job.

@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын

For a basic button head that is the usual rule of thumb.

@BlackHoleForge 3 жыл бұрын

Hey John I was going back through some of your older videos to see what I've missed. I am in the process of making Hardy hole tools , Hot cut tool and bending jig. Do you have any advice on welding shanks? Or is it better to fold the material over To make the shank? The Place where I welded my Shanks do not fit flush to my Anvil face

@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын

Grind heavy bevel first so your weld is well inside the area of the stem. Then grind as needed

@BlackHoleForge 3 жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge Thank you very much John.

@graelgraan2428 6 жыл бұрын

Great video! Why was it better to make it as a bottom butcher only instead of top and bottom?

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

For this spring die there is both a top and bottom butcher. I can't think of any reasin to make the butcher into a die id it is only one sided. But making a regular bottom butcher that goes in the hardy hole is a bit more straight forawd of a project than this particular die.

@Uke96789 Жыл бұрын

Sir, As a beginner Blacksmith, I have an odd question. I am using a piece of RR track for an Anvil, and an going to have a machine shop drill a hardy hole into the tack for me. Although, I have no experience with such things, I would appreciate your feedback on this though. I was doing some research on the size of the hole I should have them cut into the anvil. and I ran into 2 of the popular sizes, and got confused. So as I enjoy learning and watching your videos, Which would be the correct, err... "better" ( for lack of a better descriptor ), sized hole? 1" or 3/4" for a RR track anvil that is approx. 4" wide? Thank You in advance for you feedback!!!

@BlackBearForge Жыл бұрын

It would certianly be easier to make tools with a 3/4" shank. But you are more likely to be able to buy new or used tools for 1"

@Uke96789 Жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge Thank you for your swift reply, it is much appreciated!

@benjamin_griffin 4 жыл бұрын

How do you know what size and dimensions to make the spring? I want to make some spring tools, but I don’t know what length material to use or what the radius of the spring should be.

@BlackBearForge 4 жыл бұрын

The exact dimensions aren’t real critical. Start with a few feet of the material you have on hand and see how it works, then adapt from there

@benjamin_griffin 4 жыл бұрын

Black Bear Forge- thank you!

@amgironworks9091 6 жыл бұрын

Where are you getting your steel a 12ft 1in round of 4140 where I'm at is easily north of 200.00

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure where in this video I talked about 12' rounds of 4140. I typically buy it in 3' pieces from McMaster Carr. Yes it is expensive, but worth it compared to having to remake tools that are just mild steel. If I talked about 12' sections, it was probably salvaged material, most likely sucker rod from a well.

@amgironworks9091 6 жыл бұрын

Black Bear Forge I was just stating what that amount of steel costs me where I'm at.

@motome8 6 жыл бұрын

So what do you use to control your camera with your phone?

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

Its a Sony video camera with wifi. I then use Sonys app on the phone. It was the main reason I chose this camera.

@dpickettturnings7484 6 жыл бұрын

Could you tell me where you purchased your square file..

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I buy most of my new files from McMaster Carr. But any industrial supplier will carry them. IF you are lucky you can sometimes find new old stock files on ebay, they are better than the ones being made today.

@stevewilde6082 6 жыл бұрын

Maybe I missed it...is the spring piece mild steel or spring steel?

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

Just plain mild steel

@quintinstephens2573 3 жыл бұрын

“Bob Punch”...because the rivets holding a bob-sleigh runner iron have to be counter-sunk?

@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын

Its as good a guess as any.

@swierkupitok7264 3 жыл бұрын

You work a lot with this one cross peen hammer. What's the wieght of it?

@swierkupitok7264 3 жыл бұрын

By the way- riveted tools looks just beautiful. This one tool is something that you could have done easier (MIG for example, but making it without welding is very interesting project) but I don't know if it could have been done prettier

@BlackBearForge 3 жыл бұрын

about 3 pounds

@workwithnature 6 жыл бұрын

Great video you are an excellent video maker. Had to laugh when you knew you had messed up with the sound but had enough foresight to mention it ahead of time after the sound came back on. Quick question. Got an arc welder and getting good enough with it now. If I were to weld a mild steel spring to two pieces of leafspring for the dies. would there not be some issues with hardening the surrounding areas of the leaf spring that are just next to the weld. Because of cooling rapidly from the leaf spring. How could that be overcome.

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

The key to welding on anything to a high carbon component is to preheat the pieces to something like 400 - 500 then do the weld and post heat and slow cool. Eventually it will probably still crack, but it just becomes part of the repair cycle at that point.

@workwithnature 6 жыл бұрын

Great advise thank yo, makes a lot of sense. Was thinking on it a bit more. Is it possible to anneal the piece after the arc weld was done and then harden it once more? Would that make any difference too or is it a bad call.

@kiwi-iu1ny 6 жыл бұрын

Did I see Red Green, that canadian comedian. make a cameo in one of your last videos? Must have been mistaken and as you are south of the border it must have been Blue. But it can't have been the sidekick from Binford Tools!! Or??

@BlackBearForge 6 жыл бұрын

I would love to have Red Green come by for a visit. I'm not sure how long a spring die held together with duct tape would last though.