This happens when you don't back off a half turn for every turn to break burrs and clear chips. This is a method of work taught in old school fabrication. In over fifty years of machine fabrication I broke only one tap. That was the first one, I learn quick. All I see now is keep turning and most don't even bother to lubricate the tap and they don't understand why it broke. I bought metric and S.A.E. tap and die sets when I became a machinist and replaced the one tap that broke, and four others over time that wore out. Both sets are almost as old as me!

My tip for when you break a tap off in a part, especially in aluminum, is to just throw it away and pretend it never happened.

Just found your channel. I appreciate you leaving in the errors and explaining how you went about fixing them. Very helpful as I make plenty mistakes myself.

There is a simpler way to index the spindle and all you need is a dial indicator. It is a bit tedious but if you are only going to index the spindle once in a blue moon it's not too bad of a job. The trick is to realize that when cutting threads, the spindle is coupled to the lathe's carriage. Then here you want to invert the process. Normally you only think of the carriage movement in terms of full spindle rotation, e.g. when cutting ten threads per inch each time the spindle rotates once the carriage moves 0.100". Now if you only rotated the spindle 1/2 turn the carriage would move 0.050". If you rotated the spindle 1/100th of a revolution the carriage would move 0.001". Now if you have a dial indicator set up to measure the movement of the carriage and move the carriage 0.001" the spindle would rotate 1/100th of a revolution. Just the thing to scribe the dial you are making. Cut the scribe mark with the lathe's compound feed and remember to shorten the length of the compound fed scribed mark to compensate as the carriage is advanced for each index position. You can use any thread, inch or metric, that you like and you can scribe any number of divisions that are needed. E.g. if the lathe is set to cut 5tpi and you need 100 divisions then the carriage will move 0.002" for each index position. Disconnect the power to the lathe when doing any work like this. I use a block of wood lightly wedged between the spindle and the lathe bed to hold the plot steady while the scribe mark is made. Cheers from NC/USA

Some tapping fluid would go a long way towards avoiding broken taps. Also, couldn't you use the multi-hole function on your DRO to drill 36 holes in a circular plate, avoiding the 3D printed parts altogether? Keep up the vids, love seeing this stuff!

In the states, we have "Tap magic" and "Anchor lube" among others, but i love tap magic for use in aluminum. That and backing off after every 1 to 2 turns to clear the chip, evem on spiral flute. As for the fixture, great thinking. Just needs refining as all good ideas do.

I like the use of machined and 3d printed parts together in a project. Nice work

Hi! In order to remove a piece of steel from aluminum, you can boil the part in water with citric acid - this will not harm the aluminum

Love your stuff Jonsey, keep up the great work!

Throughly enjoyed you index plate program and feel so much better that I`m not the only one who has small hash up... Thankyou.

I thoroughly enjoyed every second of this build, especially the mistakes. Videos like these will build the confidence of any beginner machinist or hobbyist. Thank you for sharing!! One thought that I have is making the holes in the 3D printed parts a bit larger so you could use a larger pin that is slightly shorter than the thickness of the two printed parts, and have a threaded hole in the pin for a screw with a large diameter truss head to squeeze the two printed parts together for insurance of no play.

Nice to see what others have done for universal indexing tools for the lathe. I made a similar indexing system except no venier scale. I designed a 3D printable prototype for the mount that I made available on thingieverse. But machined the final parts out of aluminum for extra rigidity. Mine is based on a two piece external taper-loc design similar to commercially available hubs used to mount pulleys, wheels and other such devices to shafts. The taper loc hub clamps to the spindle by drawing a cone taper into a wedge ring, exerting pressure both inwards and outwards to clamp both the hub to the spindle and the indexing plate to the hub. An indexing pin is held in a mount fastened to the head stock. I made multiple indexing plate options based on how oxtools modified a 5C spindexer with external indexing plates with multiple rows of holes. When the indexing is not being used the indexing pin and plate is removed and substituted for a disc with a magnet array and a hall effect sensor for a tachometer and surface feet per minute calculator. I like that I've not seen a solution such as yours before

Absolutely amazing mate! Keep up the great work. Look forward to seeing what else you create in the future!😀

very good design and implementation

Broken tap, old school, use a carbide drill to cut the web out. New school, use a solenoid and a wire to EDM the web out.

It’s nice to find a channel that shows some of the cock ups we all make and it just edit them out. I feel right at home. 👍

This is an excellent design concept, but one should never compromise accuracy with poorly thought-out or executed setups. looking forward to seeing the finished product.

To err is human, as long as the tool is consistent, all good. Looking forward to the next build. Cheers

I found this and watched to the end. Went to find the rest of your content and discovered I've watched it all. Now subbed and notified. Your content is great and thank you

Thanks for sharing this nice solution

If you break a tap in aluminum, you can often dissolve the tap in sulphuric acid without affecting the aluminum.

I believe you can submerge the aluminum part in a concentrated solution of alumn and water. It dissolves ferrous metals but won’t affect the aluminum.

This is outstanding!! New to the channel definitely subbing 👍🏼 Love this

Have a look at the tables at the back of the model engineering book titled 'Taps, Drills and Dies' by 'Tubal Cain'. The author recommends using bigger tap drill sizes than standard. The slightly bigger hole greatly reduces the chance of breaking a tap. The trade off is a very slight reduction in thread engagement.

Very interesting, thank you for the video.

That looks like a great approach to accurate indexing on the lathe. With regards to breaking taps, we’ve all done it. However, if the tap is sharp and you use lube then you shouldn’t break a tap, especially in aluminium with a through hole. If tapping by hand, for every half turn in, take a quarter turn out to break the swarf and repeat. Great videos, keep ‘em coming 😜👏💪💥

Nice job. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎

Brilliant idea! I'll make me one in steel! Thank you for sharing!

Excellent job, great video, keep'um coming..

Wow finally a pleasing video .

smart design kudos

Interesting project. I will be back to see how this comes out.

Get yourself some 'Trefolex' (tapping snot). Works great. And always back off a LOT more than your patience would like. Remember, Ally is soft and you need big teeth and faster speeds to cut it. Same if you are using a hacksaw (biggest teeth spacing you can get.) Love your design though! Fantastic stuff! Will be happy to pay a few bucks for plans/models. Keep ip the good work mate!

Well done! I like the 3d printed parts

My submit that was a great design very well done sir

Nice work

Olá amigo, gostei do projeto muito bem pensado e elaborado!!! Lhe desejo muita saúde e cada vez mais sucesso!!!

Nice build, on my list to build a version for my 10ee

OH, Lovely. I am making one, Thanks!

I was once helped in such a situation on an electrical erosion machine. The remnants of the tap were removed in this way from the blind hole in the aluminum part. Your situation is much simpler, the hole is through. Good luck!

Very cool. I’m interested in building one of these. Good job. You have a new subscriber. Paul

I have removed broken taps from aluminum (ONLY Aluminum), with sulfuric acid. works amazingly!!!

Wall of text of ideas for ya... For broken taps i recommend using some oil/cutting fluid when cutting threads in the first place. To get em out again either specialized tools for that or thin pliers and a small hammer. Tap it loose with the hammer and twist it out, compressed air helps to evacuate the chips. In high strenght steel with carbide tooling you might be able to literally break the tool with a hammer and pull out the pieces but your threads gonna be murdered after that so only works when u can add a bigger size thread in the same spot later. Or wire EDM it / make the part again... Also Your Print at 4:40 -ish seems to be a bit out of whack in the X/Y axis on the printer. Might be warping from thermal stress or your belt tension is off in the X/Y axis. Maybe check belt tension, is a quick and cheap fix if that should be that case (frequency tester app for guitars on phone work wonders, pluck the belt like a guitar string and see how far they off and tighten according (maybe manufacturer even has proper Hz settings at hand). Also for gummy sorts of aluminium (usually containing Si !) WD40 or a light oil as cutting fluid works wonders for surface finnish and sticky chips. Also really well made video there and i like the design of that indexer. Keep up the good work!

Brilliant

Nice build and save. Good to see I'm not the only one that's accident prone 😆 I'd have gone the route of adding an optical encoder and reading that off an Arduino. You'll still need a spindle lock, but the angular positioning will be more accurate. One advantage is that you can use the setup to add an electronic leadscrew, incremental improvements 🚀

When needing a close fit with a 3D printed part, I will model just the section that needs to fit and print 2-3 at slightly different sizes to try out the fit. When I find the one that fits well, I update the actual model to match. Saves printing several complete larger parts.

love it!

Hi! When use a tap, specially in aluminum, you must need to add a lubricant, but that lubricant has to be special for "tapping" aluminum and don´t forget, go slow, retract the tap many times and be gentile. Greetings from Costa Rica! 🤣

good job 👍

ive become pretty good at removing broken taps! #1 omega drill $$$$ #2 carbide endmill $$ #3 a small broken carbide endmill and a hammer and chip it out and i bet you have a broken carbide endmill priceless! lol but those are my methods of madness. ive heard of people disolving the tap in a solution too or just rock it like you have cuz as you said 5 is good enough loved the idea!

Many years ago I saw a scheme for a military lathe where a indexing head was mounted on the spindle outboard and a powered spindle on the carriage could mill or use a slotter on the work piece.

Epic Try mate... Keep at it. I do a lot of 3d printing and getting it tweaked in is an art... Trust me Ive Been pushed to the edge.

With tapped holes, the maximun strength achieved is 1.5 X screw diameter. With thick parts drill the clearance size hole for 2 to 4 threads, this achieves 3 things, location start for the screw and it gives a nice round hole to countersink and lastly any tendancy for the threads to pull upwards will not interfere with the mating parts. Car cylinder blocks and gearbox housings use this feature so nothing interferes with two flat mating parts. Drill the holes deeper than needed and do not let the tap bottom out. Regards from Australia.

James over at Clough42 did a good video a while back where he investigated the sizing of 3d printed parts and then changed the settings in his slicer to compensate for the errors. I did a similar thing last weekend I was tapping M3 hole in 5mm thick leaded steel, this was the last operation and the first 3 went fine but the last hole broke the tap just as the tap was coming out of the far side of the 2.5mm pilot hole. There were a few blue words and when I had calmed down and retrieved my dummy I decided 3 cap heads would do the job just fine after using a punch to break off the protruding bits of tap. I like the design and have often wondered what to do with that drag engraver I bought 5 years ago!

Agree on the tapping fluid, always use it and consider it necessary. I think using some cutting fluid on your slitting saw would have allowed it to do deeper cuts too. When using the hack saw on something like that collet, don't try to cut through both sides at the same time, use a shallow angle and watch the material be removed. For the 3d prints you should have left the sizes close and used a heat gun to heat the surface of the plastic a bit then pushed it on, then it'd be a really tight fit that lasted forever. You can also use alignment pins instead of so many screws, you can get clever with this using 3d modeling instead of actual pins, or even make the holes the size of filament. Do some experiments with using filament as plastic rivets that you can heat up with a heat gun or iron (not a soldering tip though).

14:03 Hacksaw hacks... When hacksawing point your index finger straight ahead alongside the handle. This can help keep your saw strokes straighter provided your hacksaw blade is sharp and has an even bite. A little WD or other fluid is useful to keep the aluminium from sticking to your teeth.

MOST interesting! Loved it. Except for the errors, all of which were foreseeable. You need a vertical tapping stand above all.

I have used an old carbide end mill to cut out taps to great effect. What i found very effevtive was broken end mill that i shrpened into a kind of pyramid. Removed many taps with that. (was tapping 304 to m3)

I've had to remove taps from valuable parts before. Usually what I do is get a carbide end mill that is the size of the drill hole (smaller than the threads). Then set the spindle speed to about twice what you would normally run it. Use cutting oil or coolant to keep the end mill cool. Then you feather it in as gently as possible (.001-.003 of an inch at a time). It will be time consuming. It is the ultimate test of patience when it comes to machining but just go slow. The carbide end mill is trying to chew threw steel that is only slightly less hard. Listen for any crunching or snapping. Check the end mill occasionally. Keep dabbing it with oil or coolant. If everything goes right, the tap will basically be reduced to metal chips and will no longer be stuck in the hole. Don't know if you have access to carbide tooling but that's how I typically get broken taps out of parts that have a lot of time and effort invested in them.

good video, ta.

Top tip for 3D printing. Print out the areas that are going to interface with the parts that you need to interface with just the interface area so you can get that size and correct and then print out the whole part

Neat design. I might build one for my Myford. Over the years I've found the best way to get broken taps out, is to not break them in the first place. Use proper tapping fluid for the material you're tapping. I use A9 for aluminum. Proper type of tap helps a lot too. A spiral point tap would have been better in your situation. Save the spiral flute taps for blind holes.

I know this is a little late, but to remove taps like that, I usually “drill” it out with a carbide endmill that’s the same size or smaller then the tap drill size. Then the rest usually breaks free. Every once in a while if it’s a really brittle tap you can hit it with a punch and break it out in pieces.

I believe an alum solution is useful for dissolving broken taps with no damage to the surrounding aluminium. Ive seen it done on forums Im on but no experience myself, may be worth looking into

Very nice job! I'd like to see how well the lines meet up when you do a full revolution. :) It's always the last hole that breaks the tap, eh? As others have said, alum powder dissolved in water (keep adding powder until it stops dissolving) will get rid of your steel tap without harming the aluminium. Just make sure you use a container that the alum solution won't attack. I've done this before, an aluminium pot is nice because you can heat it slightly on a hob to speed up the reaction. Eventually the tap will turn dark brown or black and start to disintegrate. A bit of wiggling and poking with something should free up the remaining chunks. It can take a while but don't give up, as long as there are bubbles coming from the tap, it's dissolving. Oh and a note on the alum powder, it should look like tiny crystals. Vaguely translucent if they're big enough, in any case brittle and salt-like. It's also sold under the name "fatakdi powder". You don't want to know how long I spent heating a pot of "alum" powder which turned out to be some sort of insoluble floury substance that did nothing at all to the tap or the aluminium. Thanks eBay.

Happy user of the change gear approach here. Regarding the broken tap, if it's sticking out you may be able to grind a slot in it and use a flathead screwdriver to get it out

Never tap aluminum dry and use a tap guide. The easiest way to fix a broken tap is don’t break the tap.

Dear Jonesy, not pretending to be an expert but here is my advice. When hand tapping, for each few turns run complete reverse turns until you hear a crunch of the swarf tearing itself clean. You can then move forward and rinse & repeat. That way your swarf is progressively pushed back along the tap and doesn’t lock up which is what happened in your case. Touch wood, I have never broken a tap using this approach. Cheers.

I wonder if the sector plates were larger in diameter, if that would reduce error. Great idea! I am going to check out my lathe now for that standoff point. Thanks for putting this together.

Mr Pete says you only really need three or four threads and recommends over sizing the hole a bit for a percentage the holes depth so the tap only engages a portion equivalent to a common nut thickness therefore not to overwhelm your tap.

Great work man. AvE did a good vid on broken tap extraction.

Be sure you back out the frequently when tapping small features. If it starts to get really tight do not go further, back it out slowly. If it gets tight again, screw back in, then slowly back out. Forcing it like you did will ensure a broken tap.

I dont break taps often, but I feel like it always happens on the last hole. Cheers

nifty idea

Side comment (and possibly re-stating the obvious) re: 3d print fitment - I've gotten a lot of mileage out of printing smaller, quicker-to-print sections of parts when fitting prototypes, it's the best of both worlds for time and flexibility. Thank for the video!

Cool project! But I don't think FDM 3d printer is up to the task with required level of accuracy. Even if everything is well calibrated there is still material shrinkage when plastic is cooling down and it can cause some warping. I'd suggest machining 3d printed parts. Or maybe try 3d print the overall shape and then machine just holes using a DRO? Never seen anyone do something like that but why not :D

Tapping fluid. I remember stuff branded trefolex. It was green and had a very particular smell I've not come across anywhere else. As for removing the tap, a piece of aluminium or copper can be used as a with punch with gentle mallet blows to slowly unscrew the broken piece of tap. Using any harder material runs the risk of shattering it further and you having small pieces of very hard steel flying off at high velocity. Do NOT attempt the job if you're not wearing decent eye protection unless you want to run the risk of screwing your eyes.

nicely done! in the absence of a band saw, a Dremel Cutoff disc might be a good choice! :) For the tap, you might want to consider building an EDM tap remover and / or use an EZ-Out if the size of the tap allows for it.

Great video. Thanks. I see that when you were hand tapping, you did not use a tap follower in the spindle. I saw the tap bending. Use a cheap spring loaded tap follower to keep the straight.

Here in oztralia we have a green cutting paste called "trefolex" which is a little messy to deal with but is awesome. I don't know if you can get it in the U.K but its really good stuff and can save a lot of hassle. It melts with the friction of the cutting action and flows down through the cut. I flatly refuse to tap without it.

When tapping, half turn forward, quarter turn back. To remove broken tap you can use salt water or diluted sulphuric acid with an anodising setup..lead anoode and 12v low current power supply

In the testing (19:14); To get "good" spacing on the 1 degree attempt, the errors would need to be a good deal less than half a degree. Any errors in the position of the holes in the 3D prints will be cumulative, so (even with zero slop in all other mechanisms) the 3D prints would need to be good to a 1/4 degree, which starts to sounds like pushing the limits.

Get a pound of alum saturate water with alum in a stove tolerant pan heat the pan to 150ºF-180ºF drop part in pan add water occasionally (to compensate for boil off) 3-4 days later the iron stuff will have decomposed and the aluminum restored. When the pan returns to normal temperatures you will have a pan full of crystalline alum Add water and heat the next time you need to remove iron and preserve aluminum.

Did you consider if the internal surface of the lathe drive shaft is an accurately milled tube running true!?!? Maybe bore it to be sure.

Dissolve Alum in hot water and soak the aluminum part in the solution. The aluminum will not be affected but the tap will be disintegrated.

Broken tap - I had a similar experience when making a steel backplate. My solution was to anneal the tap in the backplate and once it was softened, drill the tap out using a smaller diameter drill. I was then able to chip bits of tap out of the hole. Annealing obviously discolours the work piece and depends on the work piece being able to withstand the annealing temperature.

я думал это только у меня криво косо получается, оказывается у всех так)) это так радует))

Cool project. While trouble shooting, you may want to check the steps per millimeter on your 3d printer. If the motors are not properly calibrated the parts will not be perfectly symmetrical.

It doesn't matter who snaps the Tap! It's still painful to watch ... and yes.. *FEEL*! Wakodahatchee Chris

In many ways your 3D printed parts should be considered as a proof of concept to be replaced with accurately machined parts. Perhaps a Spindexer could be dismantled and it’s two plates be repurposed? Thank you for such an interesting build. 👏👏👍😀

When using spiral flute or point you’re better not backing off, they are designed to be ran through in one go, backing them off can cause dwarf to get trapped in the flutes and bind.

I was going to say fluid lots of it. Nice job and we all have made the same mistake🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😎😎😎😎😎

Chào bạn cảm ơn bạn đã chia sẻ rất là hay mình cũng làm về máy CNC

I'm thinking of doing something similar, but mounting a rotary table on the back of the spindle, with the internal expanding collet mounted on the table and the rotary table housing stopped from rotating by a long arm attached to the headstock.

While the expanding mandrel / petals is a good design, a locking collar that slides over the spindle and the indexing shaft will be simpler and at the same time allow for stock to stick out through the indexing shaft if you want to design it that way. Just an idea.

What you need to do with the 3D print is to make a test piece of the correct diameter. That way you'll know what the final size comes out at, it'll depend on your filament, the bed height, the phase of the moon and probably next weeks Lottery numbers. Holes always comes out undersize, but how much is easiest to determine by trial and error. Once you are happy with your test piece, alter the CAD drawing of the real part to suit. I can usually get it spot on within a couple of iterations now

One way to fit your printed parts to mchined ones is to machine metal first, then put the printed part on the flat head plate and bore it to size. This way you get rid of the ridges in plastic and get a nice fit. One or 2 tenths of a milimeter will make no difference to the printed part if the print thickness is enough. Excelent idea overall, though, but for more accuracy I would have made the calibers from aluminum or brass instead of printing.

Thanks for posting this enjoyable video. However I can't imagine 3d printed parts ever coming close to the accuracy you desire.

That’s a fascinating idea, even if the implementation needs tweaking. I suspect the biggest source of error is your 3D prints. I’m now thinking of making something similar, but seeing if I can machine the plates using gear indexing or x-y coordinates. Many thanks and this.

use good carbide end mill but center out then take punch chip out