You could increase the torque even more, like, A LOT, by putting a piece of iron on top of the rotor, right on the back of the magnets. Brushless motors have so called "back iron" which is the iron ring where the magnets stick to. Yeah that's not alluminium. The magnetic circuit otherwise closes behind the magnets in the air which has a very high reluctance. You can cut such a piece from the iron of an old transformer with big scissors. Since this piece of iron will provide structure you could save part of the gained weight by slimming the aluminium part. This is my field of expertise.

I can smell a quadcopter business card on the horizon

Your work is super cool Carl. Keep it up!

That was excellent, and I appreciate your sense of humor integrated with the technical information. I wish I found your channel sooner.

Carl, your work is really amazing, especially because you do innovations. Infact your videos, compared with the others, are really mind stimulating. Thank you so much ☺️

I have watched a few of your videos, and I absolutely love them😃 You make videos and projects like no one else keep it up!

The delta would be usable with half the voltage. Scaling up motors to the industrial scale, 3 phase motors come as user configurable as Star or Delta. In Australia, the single phase power is 240Vac while 3 phase is 415Vac. When using a single phase to 3 phase inverter to drive a motor, it is normal to connect the motors in the delta config. but when used on the 415Vac 3 phase, we connect them in the star config. In your demo, you were using 5V, so there is no reason why it shouldn't work at 2.5V in the delta config. Nice job by the way.

You are such a pleasure to watch and learn from. We send our best wishes to you.

love the fact that you use your skills to create original new stuff, i can relate.

Excellent work. Top of the world technology development. Keep rolling.

Superb video as always 🤩. Waiting for its final prototype. Keep it up sir

Cool stuff. The first thing that comes to mind in terms of practical applications when seeing this version is the LSU polygon motor in a laser printer. It's a motor that spins up a polygon mirror attached to it. The mirror then deflects the printer's laser beam to make it cycle through the page in a predictable manner. I think you'll need at least 15000 RPM for this motor to be practical in that role, and that speed needs to be sustained and incredibly stable. On the upside - no need for high torque whatsoever. With your setup, the mirror and the magnet housing might as well be the same piece, so the only thing the motor would have to spin up is itself. The same type of mirror unit can be used in a variety of laser devices, such as laser projectors or LIDAR-like sensors.

I like the way you build your motors. *HAMMERS EVERYTHING*

Hmm is getting better and better! Good job!

This is much look better than last time

Have you considered making increases to the rotor field strength? Would help with coupling and certainly improve efficiency ( = less heating! :D) For example, you could put magnets on both side of the stator, or use a Halbach array like Cristoph Laimer's 3d-printed motor.

Impressive work!

#60. These motors are very cool and have so many uses. It's hard to find good info about them, so Thanks for making these vids.

It looks more stable than the last one!

You have a really charming style! Keep it up!

yeah the new pcb motor look more promising. Good Job !

nice work, interesting research

Good research Carl 👏👏

Excellent job

great job, keep going and waiting for dron

Smash assembly, I love it!

and the coolest diy i've ever seen

Very cool work. Just wondering if the switch to using aluminum for the rotor causes eddy currents, and if that might reduce the efficiency of the motor?

I really like this project. I'm going to be thanks about tall the possible variations and potential design changes all day now.🤯

This channel is underrated.

Excellent video 👌

Hello! Amazing work) What is the layer size of the PCB, the copper layers and isolations for v1 and v3 pcb motors? Thanks!)

Very good progress! As stated by others, you need back iron to couple the magnets and complete the magnetic circuit. This will also keep the magnets from being demagnitized as easily.

i love that miller!

You would need need "Water cooled PCB motor" 😂

Much Respect 💪

Great content! I am wondering how this design would work as a power generator? Maybe this is an idea for another video? Cheers

You could also stack 2 coil pcb's on top of each other, increasing the torque by 175%?

So amazing

Yes! I've been waiting for another video on pcb motors. Still want to do a pcb drone.

Very interresting project. I like how you combine electrical engineering with mechanical part design. have you thought of having both of the winding sides accessible like in an classical Induction motor so that you could switch from star to delta at will?

Regarding using the back emf as a way to measure the speed, is it actually only dependent on the rotational speed of the motor? (compare results with the actual hall sensor with different loads added to the motor) or is it mainly a function of the input signals?

Awesome idea! This could also be really interesting to make a linear motor on a PCB. I figure PCB milling should be quite precise enough as a crude linear guide. You could make the coils wider horizontally, add a chip to only power the active coils and maybe add some iron to increase the force. I don't really have much knowledge about motors though. This could be cool for something like a stewart platform. 6 legs just with their distance to the ground would define the 6dof position of the robot. So with 8 legs that can freely swing you should be able to make a simple robot that can lift two legs while the other 6 keep is fixed, then move all platofmr, lift 2 legs and let them swing back to vertical.

Can you please tell about Calculations regarding BLDC Motor design and windings?

i will love to see a video of your setup like which software you use or which tool you recommand :)

That is great work)) would like to see something like this underwater 🤔

Super I like your project

Could you use a couple of vias as a core of the coils? You seem, to already have two vias in the middle, but there seems to be space for a couple more?

Could you protect the magnets with a thin layer of thermal insulation? Maybe a paint with aerogel powder or insulating film.

Have you thought of using something like an odrive to turn you motors into tiny precision "stepper ish" motors? 🤔 (would that work?)

On the metal thing that holds the magnets, couldn't you add some fins to the back of it when it spins to help cool it?

Quality Content

Very good

Is there any way to add a fan or directional air flow holes into the aluminum to cool the PCB? Maybe in the divots or area between the magnets. I know nothing of this just trying to help.

Very interesting! I like the direction this is going. Have you considered putting thermal epoxy as a heatsink on rear of pcb where the coil areas are? Also you can get magnets that are rated to 125+ celcius. "Polymagnets" can generate greater force than standard magnets, Correlated Magnetics make polymagnets.

Awesome!

Hey carl nice work. Really got me some ideas. As tip. Have you considered making the rotor also out of pcb material? From manufacturing its simpler. Furthermore i wonder if the motor works also good as a generator. Would you be willed to provide one piece for a test?

Any room for heatsinking the back side of the PCB? If you mill another magnet rotor, maybe cut some grooves / fins into it so there is a slight cooling effect without much if any extra drag.

You get 100 likes from me..!!! Keep it up brother 🙂👌👌

Great video and loads of interesting comments. But was I the only one alarmed at the figure of 80C in the spec of the magnets? I'm aware of the Curie point and that hot magnets lose their power, but never thought it was that low. If I simmer a neodymium magnet in water at near 100C for an hour will it become useless?

You can re magnetize the magnets by heating them and exposing them to a magnetic field then cooling them. You can also add a second pcb on the other side of the rotor to double the power of your motor. Just add a longer shaft. That is the beauty of an axial motor.

Good genius! 👍

Would probably really benefit from a ferromagnetic core in the windings somehow. Maybe with vias and a ground plane? Connecting all the magnets together in a ground plane, to create a closed loop magnetic field. Not having one is like putting resistors in your magnetic field, the field needs something to kling on to.

If you put a lot of coils onto a lager pcb, could you make something like a marble track? Or a clock, where the small metal ball shows the time.

Very intrasting! You powerfull )

So what if you placed two magnet arrays on either side of the PCB? Like a reversed axial brushless motor?

would thinner magnets ether side of the PCB work better?

Consider that aluminum will have eddy currents through it and consider halbach array of magnets too! Just a thought, don't judge :)

With a proper driver and commutation using hall sensors, the basics involved are this: Current = Torque. Speed = Voltage. A proper motor driver will reduce current when the commutation is in phase with no lag, so low heat and high efficiency at all speeds. At higher velocity, the current for the torque remains constant if you ignore friction and induced current loss in the conductive magnets. This motor control can be performed with an inefficient class AB analog amplifier/driver to feed the commuted 3 phase drive to the motor using 3 hall sensors and 4 quadrant analog multipliers to generate drive signals to the amplifier which is configured not as a voltage amplifier, but a voltage to current amplifier. Motor drag, is responded with a change of current to maintain the correct speed by adjusting current to change torque. As the motor runs slow or faster, the voltage to current amplifier automatically adjusts voltage based on motor back EMF to apply the correct committed torque at all speeds. For higher efficiency, a high speed PWM voltage to current driver can be used instead to produce the 3 phase currents required. If you change from a 3 phase design to a 90 degree 2 phase design, cheap stepper motor drivers can be used to run constant current, thus constant torque and constant heating in the motor at all speeds. Use higher supply voltages for higher maximum speed. To grasp the concepts, stepper motors are inexpensive in smaller sizes along with off the shelf stepper motor drivers. Play with and learn stepper motor driver theory and technology to transfer to your PCB motor designs. You can buy 3 phase versions, but they are less common and more costly. www.amazon.com/dp/B00PNEQ79Q?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 Stay away from the arduino stepper H Bridge drivers. They are made for slow speeds such as 3D printers. To learn motor drive and view waveforms, get a real CNC style stepper motor driver. www.amazon.com/Usongshine-Stepper-Controller-Leadshine-2-Phase/dp/B07PHLJM22/ref=sr_1_36?dchild=1&keywords=stepper+motor+controller&qid=1592375778&s=electronics&sr=1-36 You set the desired current in dip switches, and your maximum speed is limited by your maximum voltage used. If 1 Amp is too much, you can buy smaller motor drivers.

What about creating the rotor with fins, to aid cooling & prevent overheating of the magnets? Also, have you looked into graphite as a washer option?...

Could you please share a video using PCB motors in order to achieve similar functionality as that of celluveyor

Nice work on thinning out the PCB and getting a higher RPM. And were those shafts were a type of pogo pin? They certainly looked like pogo pins and that was a genius use for them.

There's the right way to set a bearing with a nice press that doesn't put undue stress on the bearing, and then there's they way everyone actually does it, which is HAMMER :D

Proset King :)

What about the Eddy currents in the aluminium part? Wouldn't they create drag?

Can you use piezoelectric Cristal in your vibrating or jumping robot

Does anyone know the name of that small milling machine? Seems like an awesome thing to have in a workshop

truly amazing! I always wonder: what are your practical uses for such mini motors?

I wanna live like this guy.

Impressive

Very nice!, except for adding iron to define magnetic path, maybe also try rotor with no indentation to minimize air resistance or drag, the loss is related to drag and square speed.

I wonder if you could sandwich the rotter between 2 PCBs on top and 2 PCBs on bottom. This will trap your spindle between 2 PCBs on either side (higher stability) . Then use the outer exposed disk for mounting blades to instead of shaft. Might be interesting to do push pull between top and bottom PCBs due to heat. Also if u cut small curved vain into the aluminum you can have it self cool to a point.

Could you put coils on the other side, too?

I know this is an old vid... however, try to incorporate fan blades into the rotor to try cooling the PCB

amazing

Hi Carl,can we make this pcb motor in larger size for evs

Keep on with the force don't stop don't stop till you get enough 🤘 love you 😚😚😘😚

Could u flip this and use it as a generator? Wonder how much to would put out?

What's that little cnc youre using? it's cute

If you set rotor whis ferromagnetic or magnets on opposite side of coils pcb, it increases torque more then two times.

Couple questions. How difficult would it be to implement a halbach array in a design this thin? I realize this would require magnets with more optimal shapes than what off the shelf circular magnets provide. Have you also tried using a rotor on each side of the stator? Most axial flux motors, which this motor is, uses that design; I also know some designs, both single and dual sided, use an iron core on the rotors, where other designs do not, so that might be another thing to look into.

Did you consider making the rotor out of sheet steel to work as a back connector for the magnetic field? Or using a double rotor with the pcb sandwiched inbetween to build an axial flux motor? Both variations might result in stronger magnetic fields and thus higher torque

N1! Whats about closed loop magnetic circuit? So as far as i see, the motor is not using a closed magnetic circuit. Like a classic electric machine.

Hi, I have a question. did you calculate the round(revolution) per sec for both of the delta and star form? what's the highest rpm for them?

The low resistance of the delta configuration is not a problem, it is necessary for higher speeds but you will need a smarter driver that has current limiting

Awesome Idea :) , next step is to build smallest PCB step motor and next 3d printer from them, and next print small 3d printed engine :)

Maybe there's a way to sandwich rotor between two pcb stators which should increase the torque (probably).. So for drone it might be possible to have 2 pcb stators on both sides of a rotor. but what if combine two sandwiches together? 2 rotor 3 stator configuration.. not sure what the benefit of that would be.

You have SOOOOOOOOOOO, cool proucjects. 😎 I want to do the same... How much money do it cost to do the same?

that's nice

Hey Carl, I'm new here. I saw some of your old videos, but until now I don't know where you going to use the PCB motor. Could you please show the application?