Oh my god, I love this! That is a story I would watch. You described it so well. I also felt that Willow and Riley clicked well in the beginning. Like you said, the idea of doing a role reversal for Buffy and Willow would fit in really well into Buffy's theme of being out of her element at the beginning of the season.

I love all these ideas! Riley crushing on Willow and we think he is being set up as the new love interest for her and then she zigs to Tara and he zags to Buffy, so unique. And Willow could have talked up Riley to Buffy (or vice versa) oblivious to the fact he is into her. Fabulous!

Brilliant! That would have been a good storyline.

That would have been nice. There aren't that many male friendships depicted on the show. I honestly can't think of one good male friendship on Buffy. I guess Riley and Graham but that was very minor. Xander and Oz were friendly but I never saw them as friends.

@@PensiveWhiskers That's because the show is all about female empowerment and for the most part it succeeds spectaculary in that area not being to preachy or shoving it down the audiences throat (again for the most part) so that means male characters tend to get thrown to the side or treated as accessories which on one hand it's nice to see the coin flipped on the other it would have been to see every character be important complex and interesting and it would have been nice seeing more dudes being friends... I guess we have the three dumbasses you know Andrew and the other two whose names I can't remember but that wasn't healthy.

Ultimately, I also think that season 4 should have been the season where Buffy is just single and getting used to college life. She went from a very intense relationship to a new relationship in a few months.

But your idea to introduce Riley as a new friend would have been great. And Buffy could have been single for a while.

Yeah, when I originally watched the show, I remember not feeling anything for the relationship between Riley and Buffy. Which is fine because the show is not about that, but it seemed like an odd choice for a main character. I wasn't adamantly opposed to it, it just felt hollow, as did his departure.

Yeah, I felt that his character arc started to decline as the show progressed. To me, it felt like his character was progressing in season 4, but in season 5, he had nothing left (in terms of his purpose). Perhaps I'll analyze him one day to understand what happened with his character.

I see what you mean, Riley in season 4 is not bad, but he becomes less likeable in season 5. I had some thoughts on his story arc in season 5 but I left it out because I felt that my whole fanfiction would be too boring to listen to. 😅 Generally, my idea for his season 5 story would be to make him wish that he got back to his psychology research, specifically the study of demons. He leaves because he wants to join a special program in the initiative that uses his expertise. So, it would be pretty similar to the original story but taking out the plotline where he is afraid of not being as strong anymore. I'd keep the storyline of him feeling like Buffy doesn't love him, but I would take out the ultimatum that he gives her. He would still be flawed in my scenario but I think a bit more interesting because one of his driving forces for leaving would be his passion for something else. He wouldn't blame Buffy for being distant but rather he would feel that them growing apart is making him lose hope in their relationship.

I think Riley would be a lot more liked if his story ended in season 4. I think that a lot of people were surprised that he actually continued into season 5 since his character didn't have much to do at that point. So the only thing they could do is make his character less likeable.

You made another great point, the Something Blue episode also provided a strong contrast to Riley. Spike was automatically 100x more interesting than Riley. Riley was sandwiched between two interesting characters. I could also see Riley being more on the research side with Maggie. I thought about Riley being interested in the psychology of demons as well and that this aspect would be the driving force for him wanting to rejoin the initiative in season 5.

You are a very kind person in the fandom. ☺I always felt neutral towards Riley. I had no idea that people hated him. I don't like it when Buffy characters get attacked so ever since I learned that Riley is disliked, that made me want to change him a little so that people would like him more.

Now that is how you do "anti-Angel." 😂 Tara and Buffy would have been quite an interesting pair. If the show wanted to subvert our expectations, that couple would have been the way to go. No one would see it coming.

It's such a shame since we have so many evolved characters, even minor ones, on this show.

Hey! Welcome :) I believe the writers did want Riley to be the end game for her but then had to write him off because the fandom didn't feel the same way. I always chalked up the lack of chemistry due to the fact that the relationship happened "too soon," but maybe it is a lack of chemistry between the actors. I agree that the chemistry between Buffy and Spike was stronger than Buffy's and Riley's in that season. Thank you so much for watching!

I think they could have been endgame. Also the lack of chemistry was that they were too soon and let’s face it fans couldn’t not compare Riley to Angel and Spike. Too many men in this scenario and Riley was the new guy with no fans. Also he was very clean cut. I don’t think that’s what we all imagined for Buffy. I think fans pictured her with a guy with an edge. I feel like he became less likable when there was a fan backlash and writers needed a reason to write him out. He wasn’t a bad actor or character but there were just too many variables working against him.

It would have been better if we got more of a backstory on Riley. A lot of the other characters received a backstory but his background is pretty much blank. You're right that the relationship is realistic; sometimes a relationship happens primarily because there is a person who likes you.

Thank you! 😄

That plotline was very frustrating. :( I read a statement made by Marti Noxon saying that they wanted to give Riley a darker side, to show that this straight edge guy is starting to fray at the edges.

Thank you! I know the ideas are a little out there and potentially controversial, but I couldn't help it.

@PensiveWhiskers not at all! I actually think they're really smart! I have a very critical opinion when I watch something but I never ask myself how it could have been fixed, and it's so refreshing to not just listen to criticisms but to think of concrete changes that would have made it work! For what it's worth, I would have liked your version of Riley a lot better! And it would have made it so much more impactful to have him fuck up and leave in season 5 if we were actually invested in his character and relationship with buffy in the first place !

Thank you! I know it's a little out there but it's fun to theorize. :)

You have really good points. I didn't fully think through the other nationality bit, that was thrown in last minute, but you're right, it would be difficult for him to join the Initiative if he came from another country. I guess if he was very young when he came to the U.S., then it could potentially work. The nationality idea was probably too out there. 😅 The delayed romantic involvement would require some changes in the plot to make it work, like you said. I like your idea of making Riley face internal ethical conflicts more as a result of his loyalty to Walsh.

Eddie could be a new friend in the scooby gang it would be great

I haven't thought about that: the fact that his character arc took a downturn because of Spuffy, but that's a good explanation. I figured that since the writers knew the fandom was lukewarm on Riley, they decided to lean into it and make it easy to write the character off the show.

@@PensiveWhiskers Yeah, though weirdly enough, your description of a nerdy Riley arc reminded me of Sam Winchester in many ways.

He did indeed deserve better. I feel bad for the actor, apparently he got a lot of hate as a result of this role.

Hey! Welcome 🙂I'm so happy that you like this video! I was nervous about posting it because I know that Riley is a contentious character, so I wasn't sure how people were going to react. I haven't thought about re-writing Buffy's and Spike's relationship, but that is an interesting idea. When I first watched the show, it also bothered me how mean Buffy was sometimes to Spike (I've since seen it so many times that I'm used to it). I didn't understand why she had to punch him when he was defenseless. That seemed unnecessarily cruel and odd coming from a hero. If I ever make a video about my nitpicks of this show, that would be on the list. It may be a bit of a while before I get to the complicated relationships. I'm working on a video on Angel's and Spike's relationship, and I've come to realize that I don't feel ready to cover the large characters for this show, not in full anyway. This show is on a pedestal for me, nothing will be good enough. 😅So the next few Buffy videos will likely be on simpler relationships or smaller characters, I hope that's ok. I'm working my way up.

​@@PensiveWhiskersNo Worries 🙂feeling intimidated is understandable for sure. The spike and angel relationship is interesting I never thought about that. I will look forward to your videos on the smaller characters to.

Thank you! I'm looking forward to your review! I feel like Riley's plotline slowed down Season 4 so I could see why people would want to skip the scenes.

It would have been interesting to get Andrew's appearance earlier. I think if the show knew they were going to introduce Andrew, he probably would have popped out during the high school years.

Thank you! 😄It's fun to put fanfiction into video form.

@@PensiveWhiskers I'm new to Buffy and obsessed with Gilmore Girls so your finding your videos is like finding gold. 😁👌

I also think that if Buffy joined the Initiative earlier and had a stronger connection with the Initiative, it would have created a stronger storyline.

Thank you! I like season 4 because of the one-off episodes but I do have to admit that the overarching story for season 4 was pretty weak. I feel it had potential, but I don't think it hit that potential.

Season 4 is my top favorite because it feels so freeing in contrast to the dark and gloom tone of the other seasons.

I'm actually working on a video today about season 4. 🙂

Thank you so much! ☺ I think in his case, a friendship would have been a way to go. This video was a little out there, but I will have more normal Buffy videos in the future.

Wouldn't mind more out there videos also!@@PensiveWhiskers

Thank you! 🙂 I don't think Riley deserves all the hate. It's fair to critique him for his actions in season 5 but it feels like other characters get off easier for worse actions. I personally love Xander but I'm afraid to think what the fandom would have done to him if he became the replacement. 😆

Hahaha, very true, thank you! I actually wanted to be a writer when I was younger. I wrote bad poetry (William the Bloody bad). I guess in a way, I'm writing now with these videos. 🙂

I also felt it was too soon. I never disliked Riley, but I was never able to emotionally invest in him as a character. I think it was mostly because their romance was started too soon. I liked his appearance in season 6 because he seemed to be a broken shell in season 5.

I totally hear what you're saying, his whole narrative would change as a result. The thing is, I think the writers wanted Riley to be the guy for Buffy. They wanted him to compete. He was written off because fans didn't want him. So, I think the show failed him in making him desirable for a lot of people. This feels like one of those cases where the writers were hoping fans would feel one way, but everybody went in the opposite direction.

@PensiveWhiskers as a fan, I have a unique experience- I didn't see a single episode before season 4. That was my first year. To me, Riley IS the OG love interest. I wasn't able to watch the first three seasons until they came out on DVD. I think that gives me a different clarity on Buffy and Riley. The short assessment is that everything you said about Riley is right, but that's the beauty of his character. His world IS comically small. This is why he was so fragile when Maggie died. This is why his new identity became "Buffys boyfriend" and why he became SO needy! (Because he DIDN'T have a well rounded personality. The very things that made him a great soldier also made him really unbalanced in his personal life. Basically, he became 2001s version of "Beach Ken" when the military was gone. There is a clinical term called "enmeshment". And you see it beautifully implode between Buffy and Riley. I was shocked at how on-the-money the conversations in those episodes were. Most of our relationships fail before we find the one that doesn't. And not every failed relationship was with a monster. The exploration of having an unhealthy relationship with a great guy I find incredibly relatable and this is one of the best done explorations I think I've ever seen on television. It is estimated 1 in 10 American males have purchased the services of s*x workers. It's an industry worth 150 billion annually. We can pretend 1 in 10 men are monsters, or we can explore why a decent guy (like Riley) would find the appeal of these services. And making Riley healthier would really undercut that exploration. Because, while common, it's an incredibly broken act to commit. The confusion, the disgust, the anger bless all those writers for wading into that space.

That's a good point; Riley is a good representation of someone who doesn't know how to exist outside of a relationship. We do need to see those types of characters on screen. Even if the writers didn't intend it, it is good to have these characters on screen to reflect real life.

@PensiveWhiskers the writers built this up a long time. Even before the "she doesn't love me" line. I don't know what you mean by "the writers didn't intend". Their only misstep as far as I am concerned is how they wrote Rileys wife Sam. She's a super independent, highly competent go-getter that doesn't need him. That never rang true for me. In my head cannon, he married some local neurotic South American woman he rescued from monsters and brought back. (Think the Fred/Angel plotline, but Riley reciprocated, because you know he totally would).

That's not a take I hear often! I'd love to hear your opinion on it, if you want to share it. 🙂