Malazan Reading Order for First Read and for Re-Read

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Жыл бұрын

There are lots of opinions about the order in which to read the Malazan books. So this is a brief discussion about a few approaches as well as my own preference for re-reading.
I talk about the Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson, as well as the Novels of the Malazan Empire by Ian C. Esslemont.
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Intro and Music by Professor Trip.

Пікірлер: 109

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Жыл бұрын

Henceforth I will be referring to The Malazan Series (or the main series) as the sixteen books that include the ten books in The Malazan Book of the Fallen and the six books in Novels of the Malazan Empire. The two sub-series really do complement each other in so many ways, and you perfectly explained the relationship between them and the relationship between them and the other series set in the Malazan world (Kharkanas, Paths to Ascendency, etc.). Thank you, A.P., for this video and for recording it twice -- I will imagine the wit and the brilliance of the original intro!

@EricMcLuen Жыл бұрын

Sounds better than the Malazan Novels of the Books of the Fallen Malazan Empire.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

As ever, Nemesis, it is wonderful to hear from you. People can refer to the series how they want, but it just makes sense in my head to think of this as one series, written by two authors, in two sub-series. Then again, as has been pointed out by a certain unnamed Nemesis, I have a weird brain.

@SannasBookshelf Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video! I've never thought of the books by Erikson and the books by Esslemont as actually belonging to the same series, but you're right! The books give us different perspectives on the same events, it makes sense to consider them part of the same series.

@rich_i_feynman9551 Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for this video! Up to this point I was unsure if i should reread the MBotF or start the NotME first (I finished crippled god recently). Now instead I started path to ascendancy as a fun palate clenser. But your reading order got me excited all over again. I've been watching your stuff a lot during my first read of MBotF and enjoyed it quite a bit. Anyways.. keep up the good work!

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. I am glad that you enjoyed the videos. I hope that you enjoy reading the Esslemont books, regardless of the order you choose.

@BooksWithBenghisKahn Жыл бұрын

I did pub order for the first read through and it worked quite well, but I really like your reread order for a next read! I hadn’t before put together all the sub-series duologies, so that was enlightening to see!

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

There are some truly complex reading orders in which people have gone into individual books to pull out sections and reorganised everything completely chronologically... but that way madness lies.

@paulharvey5505 Жыл бұрын

So I’m in the midst of my first read through of this series, and am enjoying it immensely. Just started Midnight Tides yesterday, read the Prologue in about 30 minutes, then spent about 2 hrs watching your analysis videos of the prologue. :) I was planning on mixing the Esslemont novels in where they are supposed to go, based on the publication history you outlined in the beginning part of the video, based on the authors intent. I’m afraid I’ll be dipping out once you get to the spoiler section of this video, will come back to it when I eventually finish these 16 books.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

I am glad that you enjoyed the discussion up to the point of potential spoilers. To be honest, I don't really consider much of what I said a spoiler, but people can be very prickly about potentially knowing how books and plotlines interact, so I try to err on the side of caution now. I hope that you enjoy the reading.

@claytonhomer3096 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video, A.P.! I am almost done with Reaper's Gale so I am stopping at the spoiler section and bookmarking to come back. I am going to finish Erikson's 10 then move to Esslemont's at this point. I can already guarantee I will re-read this series at some point, so I will save the ultimate mixing order for that!

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

I hope that you have fun. Reading one series then the other works really well and a lot of people find it more manageable (especially as you are not switching between different authors, AND styles, AND characters, AND settings).

@A.Campbell Жыл бұрын

My brother introduced me to the series jan 2023, im currently up to book 7 of the complete Malazan Book of the Fallen. Love it.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

It is great to hear that you are enjoying it. Thanks for watching.

@matthewclarke-venters1303 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this A.P.! I'm looking forward to finally starting this series over the summer in the reading order you've suggested. Cheers.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

I am not sure which order you are using given that I went through a couple. For a first time reader I generally recommend publication order as it is simple, straightforward, and follows the authors' approach to level of knowledge in the intended audience. Regardless, I hope that you enjoy the books.

@matthewclarke-venters1303 Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I was intending to read the order you suggested @ 20:01, but now that you've said it, I'll revert back to reading them in publication order. Thanks! I can't wait to begin.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

@matthewclarke-venters1303 Ah, now I understand. Please let me know how you get on with the books. I am always interested to hear what people think of them.

@matthewclarke-venters1303 Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Will do A.P. Thanks, again for all the Malazan discussions. They've given me much needed respite and inspiration over the years.

@RoxanaMagdaD Жыл бұрын

Hello A.P, sorry to hear that the first attempt for this video has failed successfully :) I like the way you classify the books in the series, and which books are "main", which are "prequel" and which are "sequel", etc., it's very useful for all of us. Thank you for taking the time to record and re-record this video, it's great and educational 🤗

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Thank you, Rox. You would think that by now I would check the microphone settings before starting to record... One day I will learn, but I am a stubborn man.

@RoxanaMagdaD Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon just the other day Lorant and I were laughing about both of us forgetting to recharge our electric tooth brushes every single time that needs to be done :))).... so there are a couple of days when the battery is almost depleted and I say "I will charge it after brushing my teeth" quite a few times before actually doing that. Same as you, I hope that one day I will learn :))

@benofavalon7121 Жыл бұрын

Great video, A.P. 😊 I tried to follow one of those alternative recommended reread order diagrams at one point; supposedly, things were meant to make more sense that way, but I just ended up being more confused than before.😊😅 I cannot remember the exact point when I did my first reread of the Malazan books, but I do recall that at least 3-4 of the Esslemont novels had been published at that point. I think your integration of the books makes sense for a reread, most definitely. For a first time experience, I think I would prefer (and recommend) going by the publication date.😊

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Publication order remains the recommendation I have for people that want to read the whole series. Otherwise I would recommend reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen first, then Novels of the Malazan Empire second, as that makes things simpler and more straightforward for a first time reader who might be intimidated by 16 books in a series that moves between styles.

@charicharalferro5421 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video. I am just starting a re-read. I will either go with your order or the crazy schematic from the wiki!

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

The crazy schematic is certainly a fascinating way to approach it, but far too complicated for my little brain.

@JLchevz Жыл бұрын

Now I have 6 more books in my TBR lmao thanks for letting us know this, luckily I'm about to start Midnight Tides so I'm gonna read Night of Knives after that for sure.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

By all means, please let me know how you get on with the books.

@Magic_Merlino Жыл бұрын

Great video mate !

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I am glad that you enjoyed it.

@DoUnicornsRead Жыл бұрын

Very interesting! Thank you, for sharing your prefered order with us, A.P.! It definitely enriches my expierence of the series by reading MBoF and NoME together. Also, interesting that you mentioned that Novels of the Malazan Empire works as a series on it's own. I mean it makes sense what author would create a series that then can not be read on it's own. Still I was wondering. So thanks for clearing this up. Cheers!

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

You are very welcome. I hope that all is well with you.

@DoUnicornsRead Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Yeah, all good A. P. Just the normal madness we call life which has led to me not being so active on BookTube. But hopefully I'm more regular visitor again.

@gorgon121 3 ай бұрын

Great video!

@kingplunger6033 Жыл бұрын

I bought all books before reading a single one and then read them mostly in publication order. It was sooo great to read them entwined, and I completely agree. I am happy that I didn't listen to most people online. Still need to read the extras though. Edit: I must have done something differently though, as I am pretty sure that I had 2 Novels after CG left... maybe I am misremembering though. Edit Edit: After seeing that graph, I am sure I read Stonewielder after TtH and OST after DoD.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

There are all sorts of weird and wonderful ways to read the series. Given the fact that chronology is not really a sticking point, it can be fun to play around with sequence. Occasional jumps back or forward in time don't really ruin anything as the plot points that end up revealed are usually not the focus of the books, they are simply part of the world the characters inhabit.

@SouravUldyssian Жыл бұрын

Hi AP. I loved this order. Just asking, will you and Philip do your discussion video on The Crippled God? Because I have seen that your video series stops after Dust of Dreams.

@FreeLatveria Жыл бұрын

I read/still am reading through Malazan for the first time with the two series intertwined. At this point I've finished Crippled God and the next book was Orb Sceptre Throne l, which I am still reading. I still maintain that RotCG was a good follow up to Bonehunters and I'm glad i read it where i did. I was pretty burned out of Erickson's writing when I hit Stonewielder and really enjoyed Esselmonts writing style. So I'm a fan of mixing the two main series together. Now what i regretted was mixing Bauchlain and Korbal Broach. I wasnt a big fan of many of those stories and i credit them with part of why i got so burned out by the time i hit Crippled God.

@angiethebookaholic Жыл бұрын

Oh my. I hate when that happens with the microphone! This video was really helpful to me, especially the fact that it is best to read in the publication order. I had to stop half way through Memories of Ice , so, if i want to start again, would you recommend I follow your preferred order?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Hi Angie. Unfortunately, the microphone error happens to me more often than I would like to admit. 😭 As to reading order, I still think for a first read of the series that publication order works the best. Regardless, even if you change things around I still think you end up with a very satisfying read and I wouldn't worry or stress about it. Having fun when reading is more important than reading it the 'right' way. The way you read it is the right way, never mind what anyone else has done.

@MattVickers Жыл бұрын

Have you and Philip done your videos for Assail yet? I might have missed them but searches didn't come up with anything either. I finally finished Assail this week, didn't start ICE until after The Crippled God a few years ago, enjoyed it that way but could definitely see benefits to a different order on re-read.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Not yet. We will soon though.

@pabloalfredomorelos8553 Жыл бұрын

I'm wasn't planning to start my re-read so soon (I finished Erikson book last November), but between this video, the re-read videos and the reset video about Coltain and Tavore, I think I'm going to need to make some room for Malaz in my reading list. 🤔😂

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

I am always happy to encourage people to re-read Malazan :)

@ciaranirvine Жыл бұрын

Interesting AP. I just finished Reaper's Gale and was about to start Toll the Hounds but now I think I'll divert to the first three Esslemont books before returning to BotF, then continuing with your final suggested order.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

My main advice is read what you want, when you want, in the order you want. The two authors can be read separately, in sequence, or concurrently. Their works combine to form the 'Main Series' in my mind, but other people have different preferences. If you think reading Erikson then Esslemont will work for you, please don't let me dissuade you. Regardless, I look forward to hearing your thoughts about the books.

@MagusMarquillin Жыл бұрын

This sort of thing can stall me for a long time before reading a beloved, long fictional history (one reason I haven't begun Malazan); my mind really wants to see things in order, not of creation in _our_ world but within the context of it's own universe. Yet I know how much the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe is written to be the readers introduction, the narrator directly comments on what the reader knows, and there's a big trade off in solving the mysteries in The Magicians Nephew before you know they are mysteries, even if that book can be a great introduction in it's own right (it's now it's published that way, so many people do think it's the first). However, I also think about how much more powerful a story can be when you know the fuller weight and context of history behind it, and that's worth more then mysteries - you can still appreciate Luke Skywalker's position, even if you know more about him. Take Dragonlance: at the very least getting to know how the companions and seeing their friendship bloom in Soulforge can make later triumphs and betrayals much more weighty in Chronicles and Legends - (though the reader should be advised to ignore a more blatant spoiler in the epilogue that assumes the reader knows). Yet, you can go even further and read the brilliant Istar trilogy...and that really good book about Huma... you can keep going but you do need a guide if you want to avoid the subpar books TSR commissioned without more quality assurance. At some point a new reader wont care unless they already love that world. The default "start with the original, the way we did" is maybe safer, since you know the author is introducing everything, but I think it can be a limiting default. The Nerd who's committed to read the Silmarillion first before the Hobbit, so long as they're prepared for the tone shift, have much to gain in how rich they find the world the first time. The trouble is, it's hard to make an informed choice unless you already know how they're laid out, or really trust another reader. So I wasn't clear on if your re-read preference is how how you'd recommend it for a first timer (since otherwise, I'd think, why not begin with Kharkanas)? It's interesting that you recommend altering the in media res effect of Gardens of the Moon, and give the introduction to Esselmont's Night of Knives (Kharkanas, I assume would give too much context to mysteries of Book of the Fallen, at least for the first time). So NoK gives more context in some areas that aid appreciation, but not at the expense of mystery? And you recommend keeping the first 2 duologies alternated as published, even though they work nicely together and potentially lesson confusion?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't recommend starting with Kharkanas for the simple reasons that it is not yet complete and is a completely different story, focusing on different individuals, with a different style, and a completely different focus. It has almost nothing to do with the Malazan Book of the Fallen or the Novels of the Malazan Empire beyond exploring the deep pre-history of one of the races that appears. I am not a fan of making things chronological just for the sake of it, as most narratives don't need to be organised that way, and in fact a lot of them are improved by achronological sequencing, the reason we have flashbacks and flashforwards as a tool after all. The framing of prequels as stories told after you already know the main story means that they typically work better when you have already read the story it is a prequel to, unless it is designed as an entry point. The framing and intention behind the story is often a really important consideration beyond a simplistic chronology. Rereading means that the reader has the additional context and will pick up on why things are important, but for a first time reader it is not necessary to know what happened the night Kellanved and Dancer disappeared, they are not the focus of either NotME or MBotF, but it is a great prequel to delve into once you are acclimated to the world. So I think it works better as a prequel, not as a book one. While the books pair neatly as duologies, reading them that way instead of the publication order can potentially create the feeling of stopping and starting, rather than moving through a living history. Neatness is rarely a quality I value in a story, and I think the thematic cohesion and narrative progress works better with the published order. But on a reread, changing the order has less of an impact because you are already aware of the context and content, so you find surprising connections.

@MagusMarquillin Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I wouldn't say I like it just for the sake of it, it just seems logical to me in many instances. If the Kharkanas books can stand alone as it's own story, and then later give greater resonance to this race that plays a part in MBotF, then it would seem to be better to me, but if MBotF has significant narrative weight on not knowing what happened in Kharkanas times, then it's a Magicians Nephew situation, better left afterward. I just don't think in every case we need follow publication, sometimes things are made better with prequels & "midquels", after they've developed as a writer. Sometimes they're efforts make it worse, like when they're returning for money without inspiration. But I think I'll end up taking your advice on this series, as it seems rather particular. I'll be sure to have the NotME there to compliment it, though I do wonder how much Stephen and Ian were talking about who has to write & publish what first for the most dramatic order, it may be some shuffling is better to be more like your reread order, at least for the last half. And I don't see the harm in throwing in Bauchelain & Korbal, whoever they are, near their appropriate areas for a short diversion that would likely have commentary on the world shaking events.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Rearranging things that are achronlogical into a chronological order can make sense in specific circumstances, but it is just as likely to end up creating a dissatisfying experience as a satisfying one. Reading 'Young Sherlock Holmes' stories before you read Sherlock Holmes adds little if anything, especially as the importance of Sherlock is pre-established by the later character continuity. Reading about Normandy and its Viking ruler Rollo is not a pre-requisite for reading about the Normandy beach landings in WWII. There is no harm in reading the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas intermixed with the Malazan series, but they are tonally radically different to the main Malazan books. But as ever, you are the best judge of what you enjoy, and neither myself, nor anyone else, can say that what you choose to do is wrong. It is entirely your preference.

@MagusMarquillin Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Heh, yeah make your point with the biggest pandora's box of all: Sherlock Holmes pastiches! 🧐 No, there's no point starting with Young Sherlock, unless you happened to have met the characters with that incarnation and already love it (then hope it's actually faithful to the original). However I do see the appeal changing the order of Doyle's stories to fit with the order things are happening in Shelock's and John's lives, as opposed to the periodical approach of John's/Doyle's publications. However, in the end I gave up on doing the same thing with Robert Howard's Conan; too many interpretations of his chronology to choose between and not enough connecting threads, without the off-putting smorgasbord of connecting pastiches and rewrites! Maybe I'll try that strangeness later, if I find them. But back to Malazan: Books aren't so much like an opera you watch in single sitting, that you can't shift the tone a little to get a different perspective, people already mix completely different series they have on the go at once, which I personally try to limit as much as I can for the sake of the story at hand, and my brain, but it still ends up happening somewhat - with a spin off series it is at least related to the part of your brain keeping track of Malazan details. I wouldn't say interrupt it mid chapter, or even mid book, unless the narrative action has found a natural resting place that you can keep bookmarked in mind - and that's pretty easy for a mere novella.

@callinicobo5991 Жыл бұрын

I've read Erikson's series years ago and I'm currently at the fourth book in Esslemont's series. After the Novels of Malazan Empaire I will probably read Kharkanas, then Paths to Ascendency (completed or not) and then I will re-read using the order you suggested, adding the witness trilogy. Thank you

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

You are very welcome. Thanks for watching. I hope that you are enjoying Esslemont's books. They are very different in some respects, and give a great view of the world. I think they make Malazan seem much more real because the contrasts between Erikson and Esslemont's view of the characters and events creates that depth of variant viewpoints that we have in our own world.

@callinicobo5991 Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I'm enjoying Esslemont's books very much. Maybe I slightly prefer his style. But I'm not sure because I've read Erikson in italian long time ago, but I'm reading Esslemont mostly in english. Surely both the authors are brilliant.

@bonniestevens4329 Жыл бұрын

I was about halfway through the Erikson books before I realized the Esslemont books existed, so I have read the 10 Erikson books. I am in the process of the getting the Esslemont books but have been debating if I want to read them as a separate series or if I should integrate and reread the Erikson books. After this video I lean toward integration, but do you have a recommendation?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

If you are going to re-read the Book of the Fallen, then it is a great way to integrate Esslemont's work. But they can be read as their own series. I do enjoy reading a single author's vision of something all in one go, but the integration of the books adds to the complexity of the world and makes it feel more 'real'. But it is entirely up to you if you want to read 16 books, or just 6 new ones :)

@juliaconnell Жыл бұрын

I've JUST started again - wow - 10 years since I was introduced to this series (my Canadian partner brought the then newly published Forge of Darkness* with him, in 2013? 2014? - which I read after him, loved - he advised starting at the 'start' (is there a 'start' in this universe) - so read, Gardens of the Moon & Deadhouse Gates - but then had to move, move again, move again...- life descended into chaos. just started last week to start again with Gardens of the Moon (get so much more with reach re-read) *first in the Kharkanas Trilogy, as of May 2023, 3rd book yet to be published, is set 300,000 years before the events in the Book of the Fallen

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Reading good books is a great joy in life, we have the familiarity of the story so there is no pressure to find out what happens next, and yet we can become more deeply immersed and engaged because we know the characters and the world. It is a shame that so many people treat books as disposable consumables. Then again, I am a book nerd so I would think that. Thanks for watching t he video and commenting.

@FranzBinder20 11 ай бұрын

What would you think of (only for the reread) switching the order of book two and book three, so that you have the two beginning duologies paired and have less jumps between the continents?

@ACriticalDragon 11 ай бұрын

I know that some people like that idea, but personally I feel that breaks up the feeling of the MBotF being a single series. It replaces the foundational introductions with discrete duologies and inserts a feeling of separation into the structure. I do understand why some people prefer that structure though.

@tristancambonie2335 Жыл бұрын

Hello A.P, Would you care to elaborate why bonehunter froms a "duology/trilogy" with DoD and CG ? It seems to me that Reaper Gale have to be there in teh middle to form coherent narrative thread.

@tristancambonie2335 Жыл бұрын

to be there in the middle to form a coherent narrative thread*

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

The division was predicated on the fact that the reader would have read Reaper's Gale and therefore already new about the invasion of Lether. So as a duology it functions as a prequel and sequel to explain how the Bonehunters ended up there. So from a reading perspective, the reader last left off with Tavore finishing with teh Whirlwind. Theny we get the Lether story and Tavore's army shows up and the Lether story concludes. Then we essentialyl have a flasshback to show how Tavore got to Lether, and then what happened after Lether. Reaper's Gale is predominantly focused on the story of Lether, Bonehunters and Dust of Dreams are predominantly focused on Tavore's force, so there is a narrative connection between the two that is missing from Reaper's Gale even though Reapers depicts events that have to do with the Bonehunter army. You might as well say that you need House of Chains as that deals with the formation of the Bonehunters. There is a reason it is a decalogue not published as s sequence of duologies. I thought that it was an interesting internal structure for the series, not that it was an alternate external structure for the narrative.

@cedricaraliu 2 ай бұрын

Hi AP, are there any particular reasons why you place Night of Knives before GotM? I've seen a reddit contributor advocate for NoK to be placed after MoI and mostly see NoK recommended between Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters (I think this is the most common consensus). Is placing NoK at an earlier position, or specifically before Gardens of the Moon the most satisfying (narratively) in your opinion? Thanks!

@ACriticalDragon 2 ай бұрын

It depends if it is on a reread or on a first read. I default to publication order on a first read as the authors were writing with knowledge of what had already been published and therefore what readers were aware of. A reread is different. You can think of the series as a complete narrative and place things as flashbacks to add to teh theme or narrative events, place things chronologically, so that there is a set story order, but to me the aim is to maintain a narrative cohesion without disrupting the flow and sequence of important aspects. If NoK is placed further into the series on a reread it is essentially an extended flashback, and after MoI it doesn't make sense to have an extended flashback for what is essentially deeply connected to GotM and MoI as a foundational aspect of their story arc. To my mind it makes more sense ofr it to function as an extended prologue detailing how PoV will impact reality, and it sets up the opening of Gardens. Placing it between Midnight Tides (already an introduction of a new thread and setting) and Bonehunters leads to a further distending and breaking up of the chronological sequence, thematically it doesn't fit there, and it is not as relevant to those two books as it is to Gardens. If you are re-reading then there are no spoiler issues, and therefore no need to defer reading NoK until after the information is 'revealed'. I think the deference to the information being 'revealed' in MBotF treats MBotF as the more 'important' series instead of seeing the series as a complete combination of the books.

@cedricaraliu 2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for your detailed and intuitive reply AP! I will definately enjoy utilizing your expert guideline to explore Malazan, and recommend it to others - Cheers!

@thewhiskybowman Жыл бұрын

I have to confess I still haven't got around to reading anything beyond the Book of the Fallen, so this is helpful to show where Esselmont's books fit in. Spoiler for BotF ahead: I probably said this before, and I doubt I am alone within the group that only read the 10 books, but I was constantly waiting for Silverfox and her army to arrive in time for the climax of Crippled God, if not before. It completely bemused me there was no conclusion to her story as it never occurred to me that the two authors shared characters and plot points in their stories, I had assumed it was just a shared world where there may be occasional mentions of the other's characters but that would be about it. My own fault really, I try to avoid spoilers as much as possible so didn't read up about how the books interacted before going into it. Then by the time I had finished the 10 I needed a break and have never got around to starting the others, despite having most of them! Perhaps now is the time... if the sheer size of the task doesn't dissuade me yet again!

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

One sentence at a time, one paragraph at a time, one page at a time... never worry about the size of the mountain, just enjoy the journey and the view on the way to the top.

@thewhiskybowman Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Alas my attention span seems to be diminishing inversely proportional to my age! 10 years ago the thought of reading 16 books of that size wouldn't have phased me in the slightest. Now I can barely sit through a 2 hour film. Ok, maybe that's not a good comparison considering the state of modern cinema...

@Paul_van_Doleweerd Жыл бұрын

I feel like I missed out on so much by starting this series early in 2002 and having only the option of publication order. I could have been so much more confused than I was...

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Messing around with reading orders is something that I think is more interesting and useful on a re-read of any series. But every reader has preferences and their own way to enjoy reading. I am constantly surprised by how different some approaches are though, and whether they actually add something to the understanding of the text.

@maxxam4665 Жыл бұрын

A silly question from someone who was convinced by this channel to start Malazan (although the Italian translations aren't the best :C) If I love badass female characters, there is a particular character whose arc I should look out for?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

If I answered that it would spoil the surprise of character reveals and arcs. 😈 I hope that you enjoy reading the series, and by all means please let me know how you get on with the books.

@maxxam4665 Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon This answer just get me more resolute to read it! Although I think I'll have to read it in english, Malazan is sadly one of the many fantasy sagas that didn't get an "update" translation in italian (this happend just for Tolkien, Martin, Leguin and maybe Moorcock). And they didn't even bother to translate the Esslemont books and many side works! I am lucky I know the language, but italians who don't are missing out a lot! And I will definitely comment letting you know!!

@patchesglass1030 Жыл бұрын

It doesn't fit with the duology structure, but the following conclusion is inescapable. Gardens of the Moon, Toll the Hounds, and Orb Sceptre Throne are a Trilogy. The Darujistan Trilogy. Great video AP

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

That is a really neat mini-series.

@VikingSchism Жыл бұрын

I've been saying publication order is best for ages but it seems to be that common fan wisdom is to read only BotF first so it's always seemed a losing battle

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Everyone has their own personal preference. Ultimately, whatever works for the individual reader is going to be fine. There is no 'one right way'. But I am a big fan of thinking of THE Malazan series as both MbotF and NotME combined. They are both series in and of themselves, but when I think of 'Malazan' I think of the combination of the books.

@Jistarii Жыл бұрын

For my first read through I decided to do EVERYthing. The only thing I regretted, was I read GOTM, three times in a row, then read Deadhouse gates, twice, then went to Memories of Ice. Stopped halfway through and then read Gotm, DH over again lol. I didn't understand what was going on so I refused to be in the dark. Little did I know being in the dark is part of the series. Now im on Return of Crimson guard, and can't wait for my full series read through. I am unable to read other books during series so im reading every book back to back. The list below was recommended to me from I "think" Iskars channel, but i can't find it again and its just now a screenshot on my phone. GOTM Blood Follows DHG Lees of Laughter Wurms of Blearmouth MoI HoC MT Night of Knives Bonehunters Healthy Dead Reapers Gale Return of Crimson Guard Toll of Hounds Goats of Glory Stoneweilders Dust of Dreams Orb, Sceptre, and Throne Crippled God Blood and Bone Assail Crack'd pot trail Forge of Darkness Fall of Light Walk in Shadow Dancer's Lament Deadhouse Landing Kellanved reach Forge of the high mage

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

I definitely read the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas as completely separate, and obviously I like Orb immediately after Toll, so typically Stonewielder goes before Toll, but I love the different ways that people read and think about the series.

@alexvaldiers9788 Жыл бұрын

Can Malazan fans help me out here? I've struggled with gardens of the Moon last year, then again with the beginning of Deadhouse Gates. However, I made a breakthrough yesterday and read 400 pages straight up. Now, I am considering reading book 2 and 3 back to back and eventually reading all 10 of the main series over the summer. Would Malazan recommend this or is it better to take breaks between books?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

If you need a break between books, take a break between books. If you are enjoying reading them back to back, keep reading them back to back. Only you will know what works for you and what doesn't. The most important thing is to enjoy reading and enjoy getting something out of the books. If you aren't, then take a break and read something else. Happy reading.

@alexvaldiers9788 Жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I'm about to finish Deadhouse Gate and will go straight to Memories of Ice and see from there. I've been willing to get into Malazan for so long, I'm worried I might lose track if I unplug for too long.

@philip3572 Жыл бұрын

enjoyable video. personally going with a similar order from ‘creeder’ on yt. might give yours a try on a reread eventually. his is: 1. Gardens of the Moon 2. Night of Knives 3. Deadhouse Gates 4. Memories of Ice 5. House of Chains 6. Midnight Tides 7. The Bonehunters 8. Return of the Crimson Guard 9. Reaper's Gale 10. Stonewielder 11. Toll the Hounds 12. Orb Sceptre Throne 13. Dust of Dreams 14. The Crippled God 15. Blood and Bone 16. Assail

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

That looks pretty good. I will be interested to hear how you find them in this order. I hope that you have fun reading.

@overnightgrowth Жыл бұрын

I'm always a little baffled by people's obsession with reading orders. I just go with the order in which it was published/written per series. That way you're experiencing it as the author thought of it, usually anyway. However, I do understand and do like messing with the reading order myself for rereads because you can play around with your experience and rediscover things in unfamiliar ways. And as always you will notice things more clearly the second time around and makes it fun to connect the dots between the different books.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

That is pretty much my attitude too. I read the Stainless Steel Rat books in a weird order because it was the order in which I had access to the books, I still loved them at the time. I don't really worry about reading order unless it is an enclosed narrative unit like The Lord of the Rings... it would be very strange to not read that sequentially.

@Yeden_of_the_Shore 11 ай бұрын

Once we discover the revelation at the end, do you still consider the Empire books as being written by the same author as the Book of the Fallen? Or are they written by another?

@ACriticalDragon 11 ай бұрын

The Novels of the Malazan Empire have a different narrator.

@Yeden_of_the_Shore 11 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Maybe a good comparison would be Homer and Herodetus?

@ACriticalDragon 11 ай бұрын

@Koovno Could be, but the NotME don't have an identifiable narrator. There isn't the same frame narrative. They are written with a narrative PoV, and so have a different conceit.

@nightowl1337 9 ай бұрын

Honestly, it should not be this hard to read fantasy. People that complain about the series, the usual response is: Wait till book four and things get good. Honestly, a good book is a good book. If you have to wait till book four to make book one good, then book1 is not good. I read this series and its not bad. Its not great either. Though 10 books is a large investment in time, when there is other great fantasy out there.

@pillarmusic1641 Жыл бұрын

Is this your personal favourite series?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

It is not the series i have reread the most, but it is the one that I enjoy discussing the most.

@derekleon24 Жыл бұрын

Curios where I should fit the Path to ascendancy book in? I’ve finished the main series and would like to give the ICE books a try.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

They are prequels and focused on a different topic, so they don't necessarily fit with the main Malazan books in the sense of a completed narrative arc. However, in a chronological sequence they would appear before the MBotF and the NotME. Once all the various novels are published, it will be interesting to look at the overall structures of the various series.

@DanExploresBooks Жыл бұрын

You forgot to mention that Gardens of the Moon is meant to be attempted and DNF'd 2 or 3 times before finally getting through. I feel like I missed the full experience by getting through it on my first go.

@kingplunger6033 Жыл бұрын

I read it once and don't feel like I missed out, thats what a re read of the series in the future is for.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Dan, it will be mentioned in the Laughin' and Lyin' video.

@stevelundin5705 Жыл бұрын

Ridiculous! Everyone knows you start with Reaper's Gale and then the Memories of Ice prologue and then Book Three of Midnight Tides, then the epilogue to ... hold on, I think I gave too much away. Please ignore this post. Carry on, everyone.

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

What would you know, eh? Oh... um.... right... [takes out pen and paper] so what was that order again? 😁

@Dcreed76 Жыл бұрын

Don't feed this troll - you begin with Deadhouse Gates, then Assail, sprinkle in the next 120 pages of Ice, then Gardens...I mean, duh

@cabrademora1 Жыл бұрын

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

😁

@twistgaming3089 11 ай бұрын

I'd argue mixing in Esslemont books makes the main series way too long. Orb Scepter Throne and Stoneweilder are worth reading after reading the main 10, i'd skip the others.

@ACriticalDragon 11 ай бұрын

I can certainly understand not reading them intermixed all in one go. That could be Malazan overload. My first read was while they were being published so I had long stretches between Malazan installments to read other books. I can't say that I would agree with skipping Night of Knives, Return of the Crimson Guard, Blood and Bone, or Assail. I really enjoyed reading those and seeing different parts of the world, meeting new characters, and experiencing a whole new perspective on what I thought I knew. But thanks for watching and your perspective.

@jameswitts3793 Жыл бұрын

I've written this order down for my future re-read of the Malazan series I've read Book of the Fallen and have only this week finished Stoneweilder during my Esslemont first time read through Would you ever consider doing a reading order for all the books written as once their complete and story known, it could alter the narrative significantly?

@ACriticalDragon Жыл бұрын

Well all the books in the main Malazan cycle are complete, but once Paths to Ascendancy are completed it will be interesting to see if different narrative units can be constructed.